Pictomancer's effects need some more work

I love the spell effects, but maybe they could be a bit more textured, and painterly. I'm not so sure.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They used Gosetsu to "preview" Samurai back in 3.55 but his abilities weren't the same as the playable version, so I assume they'll do the same here in whatever obligatory solo duty they'll likely toss in.

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Ugh, we will probably get stuck as Krile at some point in DT where we will have to spend an entire duty glooping paint at people.

I think another thing people need to realize is many of the initial job trailers don’t really show the flashiest skills.

The sage trailer in particular was really boring from what we actually got. We saw their basic heal, and a few other skills.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I think another thing people need to realize is many of the initial job trailers don’t really show the flashiest skills.

The sage trailer in particular was really boring from what we actually got. We saw their basic heal, and a few other skills.

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Nah, Sage trailer didn't lie, Sage is boring as hell.

Considering the comments in this thread about what a painter-style job should be, I can tell Pictomancer is not going to be for me. It sounds like what most expect is equivalent to a small child being given a can of paint and a brush then left unattended. Fun for the child (and sometimes for adults doing the same) but annoying to everyone else around them who's stuck looking at the mess.

I hope it turns out better than what I'm imagining because so many are excited for it. It's just a big turn off for me if it's more about splashing paint at things than creating coherent images.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

Uuuuh... Pretty bold to debut a job in-game only 2 weeks after its reveal without waiting for the playerbase's reaction, feels a little bit rushed?

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Red Mage debuted in game in patch 3.4 (Sept 2016) but wasn't officially announced as a new job until December that year.

A lot of advance planning goes into creating a new job. When it gets officially announced really doesn't matter. They're already committed to it. They'll listen to player feedback for small changes they can make but it's too late at this point to give it a complete overhaul and have it ready in time for expansion launch.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

You were talking on a public forum, so of course I was going to feel the need to respond if I thought that I could add something. In the original post because you two were discussing about the possibility of the Pictomancer having been influenced in some way by the Artist's trailer (I'm paraphrasing you), to which I replied to show that it was a bit far fetched for sure, considering the historical data (more on that later). The rest is just you assuming things, as I said, and also projecting onto me (avoiding the point? condescension? WTF?). I was even trying to make light fun in my posts when I was directly criticizing something that I directly copied from what you actually wrote and that you promptly ignored, while your posts are filled with aggressivity and sarcasm, as well as more and more assumptions. It's getting tiring already.

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First of all, thank you for continuing to prove my original point about you taking it seriously despite your initial denial of doing so. "Casual interactions," right. The longer you drag this on, the clearer it becomes that your intent was never to just "add something" so much as try to overtly shut down speculation or perceived besmirchment of Pictomancer. You keep desperately trying to bring the argument being about Pictomancer as a whole (from your very first reply here) being entirely influenced by Artist's mere existence when that was never the primary point, and then continue to engage in mental gymnastics and providing data to argue a completely different point all because you were apparently triggered (yes, triggered) by somebody's comment.

And yes, the more you continued to felt necessary to add, the more obvious your condescension became. Apparently, you're an expert of detecting aggression in people's typed posts, but oblivious to how you come across in your own. Adding "joking, lol" to the end of a sarcastic comment of your own doesn't make it "light fun" instead. So stop throwing stones atop that glass house of yours. What's really getting tiring is your disingenuous attempts at seeming like you were never here to start something or provoke a reaction when everything beyond your first post contained about as much passive-aggression and confrontational language that you apparently want to point out is coming from me.

And I'm not promptly ignoring anything more than you are/were, just because I don't address every petty, unrelated point you make. Which is rich, because you've already done that several times. You promptly seem to be getting bent when somebody doesn't acknowledge your points, but the fact that you have to ask me now what I found resemblance between the two trailers (go back and look) tells me you haven't actually been trying to engage in a "casual interaction" so much as you've been looking to argue for the sake of arguing while pretending to have some sort of moral high ground. So you broke down exactly what they're wearing and where they were with a synopsis of what each character did (btw, that isn't nearly as close to a Midlander Hyur normal walk as you make it sound like it is. Clearly more hop and skip in her step)? the vibe, presentation and general appearance of two things can be similar without being exact copies of each other. I shouldn't have to explain this nuance, but it's obvious that you are trying to split hairs and make 1:1 comparisons to discredit anyone who finds resemblance because clearly the thought triggers you. I only "VERY conveniently cut" that part out in the quote (which is the whole point of 2 sets of ellipsis in a quote) because the space it takes up in a mere quote is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Krile's ears when using the white mage job: https://twitter.com/allaganeyes/stat...88735317233664...

...Also, in regards to Krile, I already explained the origins of the ears in the cloak (yes, you were wrong), as well as why she was the character chosen for the job (in the fragment that you chose to leave out on the quote). The rest is just you trying to desperately find something which is only in your apparently very rich imagination, to say the least. Did you want me to actually act as in your assumptions and projections?

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Nope, nice try. I correctly pointed out her outfit has more in common with the Devout class, with there being seldom overlap. It wasn't "conveniently ignored," you just don't actually read, but I've known this for majority of our interaction. So sorry, pulling up like the one exception to being White mage over Devout doesn't make me wrong, go look it up. Regardless, it has nothing to do with me pointing out the irony in the character wearing cat ears also ended up turning into a Pictomancer. But please, continue to argue that me noticing and pointing out that coincidence is my imagination.

Also I'm glad you found 16-bit sprites to be evidence that the job must be blithely frolicking about, lol. Bravely Default is published by SE and often borrows and uses the Final Fantasy line's jobs and gimmicks in their gameplay. It is a more recent game (but of course you should have known that, since you love recounting release dates so much) and also it pertains to a job class much like XIV rather than a single character, so that's why I felt it to be relevant; so why don't you take your own advice and check your awareness if you're going to start talking smack.

You continue to want to bring up historical facts of the job as if they have any bearing on what I originally made reference to and continue to prove my point about you taking the subject matter more serious than you pretend to, so I can tell there's clearly a paintbrush stuck in your... hat.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Now, I'll patiently wait for you...

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I bet. Probably the most engagement you had on here in years, huh?

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

...to be as detailed as I was and explain what concrete evidence you have to think that there any similarities beyond what I already acknowledged. Enlighten me and let's have some fun, if that's what you insist on. However, i won't be surprised if you don't do it, or if you make up stuff again. After all, you even made up stuff about what I wrote and even my intentions! Lastly, excuse me if I like and enjoy writing and I wrote too much before, since apparently one needs to have some hidden feelings in order to write and be detailed. I hope that you like it more now that I used the tone that you imagined!

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Except you haven't actually added anything else new worth engaging with besides pictures, besides asking questions I already acknowledged and showing your true colors as a confrontational and sarcastic person who likes to project and wanting to take this to a personal level. Really, that's the only enlightenment that needs to be had here. Which is why I didn't believe for a moment when you claimed you weren't trying to "pick up(?) a fight." You claim I'm making stuff up when I've basically pointed out observations before you taking upon yourself to attempt to "debunk" what I've observed. So, so far everything coming from you has actually been aggressive as you continue to prove my initial assessment of your point of even engaging in the first place. Thanks for dropping all pretenses; the whole: "I'm not trying to start anything but-" schtick was getting old. Don't act like you aren't relieved to finally own up to it now that somebody's called you out on it (lol).

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

I]Disclaimer: Most of this post is full of well-deserved sarcasm. For the obtuse ones that can't even distinguish between someone just discussing something and their own hallucinations, and which may now think that someone is angry at them. No, you aren't as important as you might believe to deserve that, buddy. But I hope that you understood the difference now.[/I]

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"Pat, I'll take 'Continuing to Pretend to Have the Moral High Ground While Being Pretentious' for 500, please."

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I think another thing people need to realize is many of the initial job trailers don’t really show the flashiest skills.

The sage trailer in particular was really boring from what we actually got. We saw their basic heal, and a few other skills.

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So what you're saying is, the opaque effects can get bigger.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

So what you're saying is, the opaque effects can get bigger.

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The truth is we really don't know what to expect. We'll have to wait until the media tour when they do the job showcases. Until then all we have to discuss is what we saw in the short job trailer, which is likely still a work in progress.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The truth is we really don't know what to expect. We'll have to wait until the media tour when they do the job showcases. Until then all we have to discuss is what we saw in the short job trailer, which is likely still a work in progress.

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I know, I just wanted to make a bit of a quip.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Firstof all, thank you for continuing to prove my original point about you taking it seriously despite your initial denial of doing so. "Casual interactions," right. The longer you drag this on, the clearer it becomes that your intent was never to just "add something" so much as try to overtly shut down speculation or perceived besmirchment of Pictomancer. You keep desperately trying to bring the argument being about Pictomancer as a whole (from your very first reply here) being entirely influenced by Artist's mere existence when that was never the primary point, and then continue to engage in mental gymnastics and providing data to argue a completely different point all because you were apparently triggered (yes, triggered) by somebody's comment.

And yes, the more you continued to felt necessary to add, the more obvious your condescension became. Apparently, you're an expert of detecting aggression in people's typed posts, but oblivious to how you come across in your own. Adding "joking, lol" to the end of a sarcastic comment of your own doesn't make it "light fun" instead. So stop throwing stones atop that glass house of yours. What's really getting tiring is your disingenuous attempts at seeming like you were never here to start something or provoke a reaction when everything beyond your first post contained about as much passive-aggression and confrontational language that you apparently want to point out is coming from me.

And I'm not promptly ignoring anything more than you are/were, just because I don't address every petty, unrelated point you make. Which is rich, because you've already done that several times. You promptly seem to be getting bent when somebody doesn't acknowledge your points, but the fact that you have to ask me now what I found resemblance between the two trailers (go back and look) tells me you haven't actually been trying to engage in a "casual interaction" so much as you've been looking to argue for the sake of arguing while pretending to have some sort of moral high ground. So you broke down exactly what they're wearing and where they were with a synopsis of what each character did (btw, that isn't nearly as close to a Midlander Hyur normal walk as you make it sound like it is. Clearly more hop and skip in her step)? the vibe, presentation and general appearance of two things can be similar without being exact copies of each other. I shouldn't have to explain this nuance, but it's obvious that you are trying to split hairs and make 1:1 comparisons to discredit anyone who finds resemblance because clearly the thought triggers you. I only "VERY conveniently cut" that part out in the quote (which is the whole point of 2 sets of ellipsis in a quote) because the space it takes up in a mere quote is ridiculous.


Nope, nice try. I correctly pointed out her outfit has more in common with the Devout class, with there being seldom overlap. It wasn't "conveniently ignored," you just don't actually read, but I've known this for majority of our interaction. So sorry, pulling up like the one exception to being White mage over Devout doesn't make me wrong, go look it up. Regardless, it has nothing to do with me pointing out the irony in the character wearing cat ears also ended up turning into a Pictomancer. But please, continue to argue that me noticing and pointing out that coincidence is my imagination.

Also I'm glad you found 16-bit sprites to be evidence that the job must be blithely frolicking about, lol. Bravely Default is published by SE and often borrows and uses the Final Fantasy line's jobs and gimmicks in their gameplay. It is a more recent game (but of course you should have known that, since you love recounting release dates so much) and also it pertains to a job class much like XIV rather than a single character, so that's why I felt it to be relevant; so why don't you take your own advice and check your awareness if you're going to start talking smack.

You continue to want to bring up historical facts of the job as if they have any bearing on what I originally made reference to and continue to prove my point about you taking the subject matter more serious than you pretend to, so I can tell there's clearly a paintbrush stuck in your... hat.



I bet. Probably the most engagement you had on here in years, huh?




Except you haven't actually added anything else new worth engaging with besides pictures, besides asking questions I already acknowledged and showing your true colors as a confrontational and sarcastic person who likes to project and wanting to take this to a personal level. Really, that's the only enlightenment that needs to be had here. Which is why I didn't believe for a moment when you claimed you weren't trying to "pick up(?) a fight." You claim I'm making stuff up when I've basically pointed out observations before you taking upon yourself to attempt to "debunk" what I've observed. So, so far everything coming from you has actually been aggressive as you continue to prove my initial assessment of your point of even engaging in the first place. Thanks for dropping all pretenses; the whole: "I'm not trying to start anything but-" schtick was getting old. Don't act like you aren't relieved to finally own up to it now that somebody's called you out on it (lol).



"Pat, I'll take 'Continuing to Pretend to Have the Moral High Ground While Being Pretentious' for 500, please."

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It's both interesting and sad that you made such an effort in trying to analyze both me and the supposed implications of that post (missing the intention of the obviously different tone in the process), yet somehow didn't bother to address directly the comparisons and actually explain what exactly is the base for your opinion, instead of some vague "the intros look similar" or "their choice of model and behavior are similar" or "both use blonde cutesy girls" or "they have the same vibe", and the likes. I wasn't kidding when I said two posts ago that I was honestly wondering what made you specifically think that way, or three posts ago about how you would have made the job trailer to look different enough in that sense for you. I'm still wondering right now what legit makes you think about the Pictomancer looking more similarly shown to the way the Artist also was in its trailer than to what it has always looked like in the Final Fantasy games (I reduce this to FF games because, for example, there aren't chocobos or moogles in BD, as it's a different IP that doesn't repeat the usual FF tropes, other than taking inspiration from some) that it has appeared in. You might jump on the gun again at me for saying this, but my honest opinion is that you're just grasping at straws there to find something that isn't even there. But I'm really wondering if somehow I can't notice some important details in the trailers that you actually noticed. Because I understand what you say about both trailer intros showing females walking around, acting cute, and using their paintbrushes. But these similarities are on such a basic level, that I can't see any actual connection between both. Especially since, and this is why I insisted on the historical record, the Pictomancer has always had that vibe about it and the model has a reason to look and act like that, so I believe that that was the most logical and straightforward way to make the intro.

Anyway, if you were right about what you assumed, I would instead had gone back point by point and I would even quote everything that you've ignored, disregarded or rewritten to your convenience to have a "gotcha" moment against you, like you thought that I wanted to do. However, it's not worth the effort to repeat something that I already said (and showed) several times for naught, or play your game of "I'm better than you" for real and not in a sarcastic way to show you the difference between my original posts and what you interpreted. I think that the rest of the posters don't deserve that, and I can see that it was a mistake to write the previous post in the tone that I wrote it in, since it seems to not have served the intended purpose. My honest apologies to everyone.

But you're right about one thing, thought: I didn't bother coming to the English forums in a very long time because there are way too many people like you (not a majority, but an annoying minority nonetheless), and that's something that almost everyone agrees on, even the devs and CM, apparently, since both stopped interacting here. I'm not saying that you're actually one of those, but you have been giving me such impression. You really assumed stuff that I think that I never hinted at originally, and kept avoiding answering directly despite doing my best to explain myself and properly back what I was saying. Misunderstandings happen, but you took it a step beyond way before my last post.

Have a good one. Unless you suddenly decide to answer what I asked you about in a concise and detailed way, since I won't assume that you won't ever do it. Otherwise, you win, if that makes you happy. And no, there's no sarcasm in this post.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Nah, Sage trailer didn't lie, Sage is boring as hell.

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Literally said nothing about sage being boring. We’re talking about the job aesthetic. Visually sage was pretty unimpressive outside their weapon in their announcement trailer.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I think another thing people need to realize is many of the initial job trailers don’t really show the flashiest skills.

The sage trailer in particular was really boring from what we actually got. We saw their basic heal, and a few other skills.

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This is true, and I'll throw in my own perspective here about PIC as a whole:

I like the concept, I like that it's a more whimsical job which is very on brand for Relm, and I'm curious to learn more about the unique aspects to how the whole "landscapes" thing will come into play. They dropped the word "Landscape" multiple times as well as showcased one action of painting a shooting star over a mountain, but there was no revealed effect. I wonder if that will play into the job's gauge, and I think there's a lot of potential.

On the flipside, I think I agree with some of the criticism that the actual spell effects themselves are underwhelming when comparing them to Krile's display from the trailer. Obviously the in-game visual effects are very different from the full CGI trailer effects, but Krile looked like she was painting with Aether. The paint from the teaser is very literal--as if they are painting with actual paints. The idea of conjuring strands of aetheric paint that transform into a wave of butterflies is very elaborate, interesting, and compliments this idea of whimsy. It further tells the story of PIC being this mage who's magic is built on their imagination and creativity, but the Stone and Blizzard effects we see in the teaser feel very disconnected from that identity. There's nothing particularly imaginative about them. They're very basic, and while they're no doubt very basic aspects to PIC's kit (like their general filler spells) I can't help but feel they could've done more to communicate this identity of creativity even with basic attacks. Additionally, the moogle that gets conjured just looks like an ordinary moogle, but the spriggan that Krile painted was made with her aetheric paint. Shouldn't the moogle also be made out of that sort of watercolor-y texture? Shouldn't it be dripping paint as a being born of magic paint?

It's entirely possible that these effects are a work in progress, but that's never been the case before, to my knowledge. So I can't help but feel like the execution of this idea is not nearly as strong as it could've been.

I was sort of in the same camp as the OP at first glance of the class, not too impressed with the color scheme/pondering possible placeholder graphics, HOWEVER after a few more watches of both the Picto in game vid and the Full trailer vid I have an oddly sneaking suspicion that possibly, just possibly, the particular paint style used is due to an interesting effect that MIGHT occur in the dark/at night.

Since we only have full day in game footage to observe and Krile's display is at night, I am wondering if the paint in fact does glow brightly in the dark similar to Krile's nighttime display. I posit that as a theory due to the end of Krile's display in the Full trailer when Night becomes Day and it appears the paint stops glowing. The coding might need to be a paler paint to pull off a change to a bright glow at night. If you observe the paint in the in game play footage the paint is singular colored with a lighter/white contrasting paint. They may not be using Deeper/Darker hues due to the change from matte to glow during a change of Day to Night or Lit to Darkness.

Just a random thought.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Red Mage debuted in game in patch 3.4 (Sept 2016) but wasn't officially announced as a new job until December that year.

A lot of advance planning goes into creating a new job. When it gets officially announced really doesn't matter. They're already committed to it. They'll listen to player feedback for small changes they can make but it's too late at this point to give it a complete overhaul and have it ready in time for expansion launch.

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You're talking about the solo duty against the Warriors of Darkness where Alisaie creates a blade of light, right? If so there was absolutely no mention of Red Mage, and it looked completely different, both in terms of VFX, animation, and aesthetic. Even the auto-attack animations are just the PLD ones. Obviously it's understandable how people immediately assumed sword + magic = Red Mage confirmed, but since your argument is about production itself, Red Mage as we know it was only properly debuted on Stormblood's release, when you get access to the job and Alisaie gets an actual Red Mage weapon in MSQ, if my memory serves right.

So that was... 6 months after it was officially announced? Plenty of time to gather feedback if it needed it. But Red Mage was a lot less ambitious and daring with its visuals than Pictomancer, which is doing something completely new visually, so I doubt the players' reaction was as divisive at the time.

I'm honestly still scratching my head over this. Obviously, the department who worked on the CGI trailer are not the same people who worked on the VFX themselves. Obviously, the CGI trailers are never accurately depicting jobs (or characters, or even when the lines in the trailer are said in MSQ... unless Emet-Selch is secretly a Gremlin).

But surely, surely someone in production must have looked at both and thought "These do not look the same at all. Players will have things to say about this." (especially when it takes so much screen time in the full trailer). That's why I'm a bit startled that they're rushing the Pictomancer debut, when I don't think it would have been an issue to wait until 7.0 for Krile to get her paintbrush.

Then again, we don't know what the schedules of each department look like, so it could very well be that it was simply just not possible to delay the debut, either because 6.55 MSQ was already set in stone, or because the full trailer was only shown to the production team very, very late.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

It's both interesting and sad that you made such an effort in trying to analyze both me and the supposed implications of that post (missing the intention of the obviously different tone in the process), yet somehow didn't bother to address directly the comparisons and actually explain what exactly is the base for your opinion, instead of some vague "the intros look similar" or "their choice of model and behavior are similar" or "both use blonde cutesy girls" or "they have the same vibe", and the likes. I wasn't kidding when I said two posts ago that I was honestly wondering what made you specifically think that way, or three posts ago about how you would have made the job trailer to look different enough in that sense for you. I'm still wondering right now what legit makes you think about the Pictomancer looking more similarly shown to the way the Artist also was in its trailer than to what it has always looked like in the Final Fantasy games (I reduce this to FF games because, for example, there aren't chocobos or moogles in BD, as it's a different IP that doesn't repeat the usual FF tropes, other than taking inspiration from some) that it has appeared in. You might jump on the gun again at me for saying this, but my honest opinion is that you're just grasping at straws there to find something that isn't even there. But I'm really wondering if somehow I can't notice some important details in the trailers that you actually noticed. Because I understand what you say about both trailer intros showing females walking around, acting cute, and using their paintbrushes. But these similarities are on such a basic level, that I can't see any actual connection between both. Especially since, and this is why I insisted on the historical record, the Pictomancer has always had that vibe about it and the model has a reason to look and act like that, so I believe that that was the most logical and straightforward way to make the intro.

Anyway, if you were right about what you assumed, I would instead had gone back point by point and I would even quote everything that you've ignored, disregarded or rewritten to your convenience to have a "gotcha" moment against you, like you thought that I wanted to do. However, it's not worth the effort to repeat something that I already said (and showed) several times for naught, or play your game of "I'm better than you" for real and not in a sarcastic way to show you the difference between my original posts and what you interpreted. I think that the rest of the posters don't deserve that, and I can see that it was a mistake to write the previous post in the tone that I wrote it in, since it seems to not have served the intended purpose. My honest apologies to everyone.

But you're right about one thing, thought: I didn't bother coming to the English forums in a very long time because there are way too many people like you (not a majority, but an annoying minority nonetheless), and that's something that almost everyone agrees on, even the devs and CM, apparently, since both stopped interacting here. I'm not saying that you're actually one of those, but you have been giving me such impression. You really assumed stuff that I think that I never hinted at originally, and kept avoiding answering directly despite doing my best to explain myself and properly back what I was saying. Misunderstandings happen, but you took it a step beyond way before my last post.

Have a good one. Unless you suddenly decide to answer what I asked you about in a concise and detailed way, since I won't assume that you won't ever do it. Otherwise, you win, if that makes you happy. And no, there's no sarcasm in this post.

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It's unfortunate, because a lot of that just perfectly described you as soon as you came onto the scene and posts beyond; but I'm not entirely sure if it's just lack of self-awareness to see how hard you project your rampant passive aggressiveness while calling-out others on how you get to interpret theirs. It's also unfortunate that nothing described is apparently sufficient enough for you, so you'll simply hand-wave it as "vague," simply because you disagree with it. But then again, your whole obsession has been to make peevish arguments picking apart unrelated data points nobody was debating and to turn an innocuous statement into something that has to be outlined and explained in great detail to your specific satisfaction. And any genuine questions you may have had were instantly buried under all the backhanded snark and I wasn't avoiding answering your questions as most sounded more rhetorical than anything else. I've already mentioned why and how I found the similarities (there's a couple more you glossed over, but given your proclivity to needing specific detail, probably wouldn't be up to your standards anyway), so what's the point in repeating myself?

My key take away from this whole interaction with you is that you took obvious offense to any implication of plagiarism on behalf of the company for some reason, no matter how flippant, when similarities were pointed out and you obviously take things a whole lot seriously than you pretend not to. The fact that you want to go "point by point" over something you clearly read more into than anybody else here based on how you interpreted my opinions is just a new level of pettiness that only solidifies my observation. You absolutely were actively seeking "gotcha" moments; these past two pages are a clear indication of that with all the fluff and lore you're been running in circles over. Your free to deny it; maybe you genuinely weren't, but you certainly came off as gunning for them. The fact that you think the "I'm better than you" game was my game certainly carries some tone-deafness; who engaged who first?

Saying both there "are way too many people like you" and "I'm not saying that you're actually one of those" are contradictory points, so I'm not sure why even bother mentioning it. Personally, I think less people would be willing to engage with individuals like you, that take comments not even directed at you too far and nearly demand that people explain their opinions to a satisfactory degree for you; and I'm glad I only run into individuals like yourself around here only once or twice during my 10+ years posting here. Misunderstanding certainly do happen, but clearly you decided to try to get a few jabs in your next reply when simply told to carefully reread what I had posted and your freedom to take what you quoted seriously. Don't act as if you were innocent during the early stages either and this is all on me.

Cheers then. I don't owe you any additional answers up to whatever standards you deign aren't beneath you. Coincidentally you're also right about one thing: there really wasn't any real sarcasm in your post; just the overbearing condescension that was always there from the start. So, par the course. "You do you."

au revoir.

My guess is our LB3 will be the Krile spell, and that it’ll sort of look like Sea Shanty. It’s such a pretty animation I could see them recreating that with paint.

It might also show up as a higher level spell.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

It's unfortunate,because a lot of that just perfectly described you as soon as you came onto the scene and posts beyond; but I'm not entirely sure if it's just lack of self-awareness to see how hard you project your rampant passive aggressiveness while calling-out others on how you get to interpret theirs. It's also unfortunate that nothing described is apparently sufficient enough for you, so you'll simply hand-wave it as "vague," simply because you disagree with it. But then again, your whole obsession has been to make peevish arguments picking apart unrelated data points nobody was debating and to turn an innocuous statement into something that has to be outlined and explained in great detail to your specific satisfaction. And any genuine questions you may have had were instantly buried under all the backhanded snark and I wasn't avoiding answering your questions as most sounded more rhetorical than anything else. I've already mentioned why and how I found the similarities (there's a couple more you glossed over, but given your proclivity to needing specific detail, probably wouldn't be up to your standards anyway), so what's the point in repeating myself?

My key take away from this whole interaction with you is that you took obvious offense to any implication of plagiarism on behalf of the company for some reason, no matter how flippant, when similarities were pointed out and you obviously take things a whole lot seriously than you pretend not to. The fact that you want to go "point by point" over something you clearly read more into than anybody else here based on how you interpreted my opinions is just a new level of pettiness that only solidifies my observation. You absolutely were actively seeking "gotcha" moments; these past two pages are a clear indication of that with all the fluff and lore you're been running in circles over. Your free to deny it; maybe you genuinely weren't, but you certainly came off as gunning for them. The fact that you think the "I'm better than you" game was my game certainly carries some tone-deafness; who engaged who first?

Saying both there "are way too many people like you" and "I'm not saying that you're actually one of those" are contradictory points, so I'm not sure why even bother mentioning it. Personally, I think less people would be willing to engage with individuals like you, that take comments not even directed at you too far and nearly demand that people explain their opinions to a satisfactory degree for you; and I'm glad I only run into individuals like yourself around here only once or twice during my 10+ years posting here. Misunderstanding certainly do happen, but clearly you decided to try to get a few jabs in your next reply when simply told to carefully reread what I had posted and your freedom to take what you quoted seriously. Don't act as if you were innocent during the early stages either and this is all on me.

Cheers then. I don't owe you any additional answers up to whatever standards you deign aren't beneath you. Coincidentally you're also right about one thing: there really wasn't any real sarcasm in your post; just the overbearing condescension that was always there from the start. So, par the course. "You do you."

au revoir.

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You're right, you don't even owe me (or anyone) an answer over anything. But you're confusing my insistence in trying to make you just clearly talk about the topic and stop judging or voicing my supposed thoughts in my stead, with me thinking that you owe me anything or that you should actually do it for some obscure reason. Well, to be fair I actually think that you owe something to anyone, and that's the benefit of the doubt and some respect. Because you don't know if you get the wrong impression because someone's first language isn't English or some similar things. I even apologised for using the wrong method to try and make you stop in that specific post, and I apologise again without "ifs" or "buts".

Anyway, no, I'm not defending SE. I (and many others as well) got in plenty of trouble in the past for criticizing them in these very same discussion boards for actual serious stuff like the changes that the cash shop brought to other areas of the game. This was never about defending the Pictomancer, as you said that you thought since the start, but about me not seeing what you were talking about in regards to any kind of similarities or implications.

Take care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

But surely, surely someone in production must have looked at both and thought "These do not look the same at all. Players will have things to say about this." (especially when it takes so much screen time in the full trailer). That's why I'm a bit startled that they're rushing the Pictomancer debut, when I don't think it would have been an issue to wait until 7.0 for Krile to get her paintbrush.

Then again, we don't know what the schedules of each department look like, so it could very well be that it was simply just not possible to delay the debut, either because 6.55 MSQ was already set in stone, or because the full trailer was only shown to the production team very, very late.

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The more I think about it, the more I think that the screenshot of Krile with her new brush is going to be one of those closing cutscenes at the end of the patch. I think we’ll see very little, if any, of her actually using the job until DT. Unless they really do rush her into her Trust role for the last dungeon, but I don’t think they will.

My wish is that when the job is done and I pick it up in DT, the paint looks more magical: full of glow, light and sparkly particle effects, and not so flat and chalky. I’m painting with aether not gouache! lol

Also, side note, I wonder what the chances are of getting an actual guild house, aka artists studio, for this job. There’s a lot of those little round buildings sitting empty in Gridania! That would be my second wish: an actual guild hall with new artsy furnishings added to the game.

Third wish: Star Prism LB3, big, bright and sparkly! LOL

Digging the thread back from the dirt because we’ve had some new Pictomancer footage with 6.55 and I think the VFX are worth talking about (and I’m stuck in lancetfish jail so I have time to kill anyway).

I edited everything in gifs which will be in spoiler tags to not be too hard on the eyes (it doesn't seem to work in the preview so I hope it works when I post this lol).

Effect 1

https://i.imgur.com/QJwKfft.gif

Personally I find it very… bold to start the introduction of Pictomancer with this. It’s a slow motion effect we probably won’t often see when we play the job ourselves (except maybe under the sleep status and in gpose), but the static 3D model of paint doesn’t really look very appealing at first glance (and especially this close), it almost looks more like rubbery glue is attached to the brush. Not a very solid first impression overall (yes, it’s only a few seconds, but they do matter!)

Effect 2

https://i.imgur.com/Am4ktSC.gif
(gif is at 50% speed for eye comfort, normal speed here)

Here we can see how the previous 3D model of paint is supposed to be used, and in complete contrast to the slow-motion animation from before, it works really well! It looks like a convincing brush stroke. Nothing else to say, great effect.

Effect 3

https://i.imgur.com/Wpz7KKS.gif

The moogle we saw in the gameplay trailer appears. The splash of paint is very satisfying, although the moogle doesn’t really look like it’s made out of paint, and the 2 red orbs and stars look like they come from another art direction that’s neither like the paint effects or the moogle, so things are stylistically clashing a bit already. Which is strange because, when you look at cartoon-ish emotes we have in the game already there is already a predominant art style (Eureka, All saints’ charm, or even the new Valentione one we’re getting soon), and with Vexed there is even a more hand-drawn-looking one (it’s quite literally a scribble). Instead the red orbs look like they come from some... random cel shaded game?

Having the moogle dripping with paint (like the spriggan in the CGI trailer, or the painter AION gif I posted earlier in this thread) would maybe make things feel more cohesive already?

Effect 4

https://i.imgur.com/dlysmV6.gif

It’s a bit hard to see what’s going on in the moogle laser at that angle, but I think overall it fits effects we’ve seen before in FFXIV. I’m mainly thinking of BLU’s Apokalypsis, and I’ve seen a lot of people comparing the gameplay trailer’s VFX with the Byakko trial and weapons (saying Byakko did it better), and ironically this laser looks a lot less like ink/paint than what we see in the Byakko trial, but I think that stylistically Byakko is a lot more dynamic and… stylized like a “shonen anime fight” for lack of a better word, which wouldn’t really fit the image of Pictomancer to begin with. The sparkles at the end are cute and a nice contrast to the more “violent” looking laser.

Effect 5

https://i.imgur.com/IcUJ3vX.gif

This effect looks great! Everything looks like paint, it’s stylized but it’s not clashing with the rest of the art style, the 3D model of paint on the brush is behaving as it should (which is strange, it’s not going that much faster than the first slow-mo one), and the brush stroke appearing this way feels very satisfying.

Effect 6

https://i.imgur.com/jZsjXJx.gif

(gif is at 50% speed for eye comfort, normal speed here)

Also a great effect, very juicy and satisfying explosion, everything still looks like paint, aaand…

Effect 7

https://i.imgur.com/EQyywOW.gif
(gif is at 50% speed for eye comfort, normal speed here)

… what is this. Up until now everything except the spriggan looked like realistic(ish) paint, and it ends on a overly cartoon-ish splat, which completely clashes with the rest of the effect? I don’t really understand why it had to be this way. If the idea was to have a lighter background so we could still see the spriggan scribble, couldn’t a more realistic splatter have worked just as well?

Effect 8

https://i.imgur.com/Qb5Sd1Y.gif

But overall I really like this spriggan! Sure, it’s not the one made out of paint in the CGI trailer (which, in itself, is pretty funny I think, but I could see people using it as an argument for their disappointment with the gameplay VFX, so I’m not sure why the devs went with it, it’s like giving us the gun to shoot them with), but it fits the image of Pictomancer as a little drawing you make that comes to life. That spriggan alone is to me much more reflective of the job than what we saw in the gameplay trailer (the rocks, the ice, even the moogle). The flying particles around it are also a lot more in line with the VFX we have in the game so far (which, again, why does the moogle laser and its strange orbs not follow that direction?).

Effect 9

https://i.imgur.com/w0DMK6A.gif

And we see the paint explosion again with added flying particles, which also works great and doesn’t clash with the overall art style, 10/10.

So yeah, overall a pretty mixed bag, some effects work great, others not so much... I hope there's still time for the people in charge of VFX to gather feedback and add another pass on them, mainly to maintain visual coherence between the overall art style of the game, what already exists in terms of VFX, and how the Pictomancer ones could fit in the middle.

Even worse in slow motion. Those stereotypical splats dont fit at all and that detailed paint trail looks awful.

We already have good paint stroke effects in Byakko weapons, just take those and add some color.

I'll be blunt, seeing the animations that resemble that of genshin impact or some other game with mega kiddy vibes was unappealing to me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gordita

I'll be blunt, seeing the animations that resemble that of genshin impact or some other game with mega kiddy vibes was unappealing to me

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Not just you. I don't mind the cartoony artstyle necessarily, but then the rest of the game needs to fit said artstyle and this one...doesn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StartouchArts

I'm beyond ecstatic that the new caster is Pictomancer, but the visual FX feels... almost unfinished.

The stone and ice spells have low-resolution and extremely un-detailed textures. Like, for a split second I thought they were placeholder textures. These need more details, and/or perhaps making the textures have actual paintbrush strokes in them would go a long way in making them fit in FFXIV's aesthetic while still being their own thing.

Also, in the trailer, Krile's pictomancy had an extremely high amount of particle effects like sparkles, as well as strands of multicolor ink trailing being her brush strokes. I think adding these effects to the spells will make them look like proper magic using aether as a paint medium instead of what we have now.

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Just going to agree to disagree on this one. Rather than making it photo realistic, they choose to give the spells a more watercolor like paint appearance with fits the job perfectly. It makes the spell stand out more in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Just going to agree to disagree on this one. Rather than making it photo realistic, they choose to give the spells a more watercolor like paint appearance with fits the job perfectly. It makes the spell stand out more in my opinion.

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I wouldn't say Krile's effects from the trailer are photo-realistic in the slightest.

What I said a while back and what I think is worth repeating is that the effects are not living up to the expectation that Krile displayed in the initial reveal. Her effects felt more like magic in their effects, whereas the in-game effects feel too literal. I think the biggest offender is the moogle. In the trailer, Krile summoned a Spriggan made from aetheric paint, and that was visually clear with the creature having this very pastel color texture, leaving behind a trail of dripping aetheric paint as it floated around the sky. It felt like a creature created from paint, but the moogle summon animation is just a literal moogle model. Why doesn't the moogle have this same texture and detail to it? Additionally, Krile skipped into the scene painting long strands of aether that transformed into butterflies, something that strongly displays this concept of creativity and whimsy. But the attacks we saw were just Stone but painted and Blizzard but painted, which hardly capture the same impact that Krile had from the trailer.

The effects displayed in the teaser are not the end-all-be-all of PIC's visual effects, but at at the same time, I feel it did a poor job of selling PIC's identity because it lacks this idea of imagination and whimsy that contrasts negatively against the trailer's depiction of the same job. All teasers show a very limited display of a job's actions. All Dancer's teaser showed, for example, were it's basic combo actions and Standard Step. We didn't see the Fan Dances, the Devilment buff, or even Saber Dance. But as a teaser, it gave us an appropriate introduction to what Dancer's aesthetic was, what its identity would look like, and what to expect from its visual effects. Pictomancer's teaser is either indicating an underwhelming execution of the concept based on what the trailer established, or hasn't done a good job of selling what we have yet to see from the job. And we can say this because we're seeing a fair amount of criticism of the effects which isn't something we've seen a lot of from past teasers.