Hrothgar Female Improvement Thread

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

Their heads are too small. It makes them look goofy. I hope they fix this as they look amazing in the concept art with the correct head to body proportions.

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Their head proportions are perfectly fine. Get glasses.

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

THEY ARENT EVEN OUT YET

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Everyone loves to scream and nitpick and complain on these forums thinking that FFXIV design team is actually going to halt their work and cater to their every whim. I say don't like their designs? Don't play them. End of story.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Everyone loves to scream and nitpick and complain on these forums thinking that FFXIV design team is actually going to halt their work and cater to their every whim. I say don't like their designs? Don't play them. End of story.

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They do listen to feedback though? The Au Ra limbal rings in the London keynote were critiqued for not being bright, and in this one it seems they went back on the change. It's true that they can't please everyone, but people can give their thoughts on things too, can't they?

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Originally Posted by chocotism

They do listen to feedback though? The Au Ra limbal rings in the London keynote were critiqued for not being bright, and in this one it seems they went back on the change. It's true that they can't please everyone, but people can give their thoughts on things too, can't they?

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I don't think they "went back on the change" as much as they just clarified that glowing eyes is still in the options.

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Originally Posted by LioJen

I don't think they "went back on the change" as much as they just clarified that glowing eyes is still in the options.

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Ahh I see. I wasn't too focused on the change in the first place, so that flew over my head (just in time for me to get bothered over Viera noses instead lmao).

I think the body designs for fem Hroth are perfect and on point for what I was expecting and hoping for!

I would like to add (as others have) from this thread on twitter that the faces need to be elongated more. The short snout is much too "house cat". It's too smooshed/flat. It also contributes to making their heads look far too small.

The original thread is here: Twitter Thread


This is probably too large for the body proportions but this is something I really wish the DT trailer had going for it. It looks so much better with the longer muzzle. It's less "hyur with prosthetics on" and more "beast race":

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDNYa6zW...jpg&name=small

Alternatively the artist in the thread also redid a better compromise which I think would work perfectly:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDNczzQX...jpg&name=small

The above image is not too long but still retains that beast look I feel the designs shown in the trailers are really lacking. Longer muzzles also would make their heads look less tiny compared to the rest of the body.

Wider faces and mouths were also things mentioned in this thread I think are also sorely needed. Otherwise they end up looking too "human with costume make up on".

Other things I want to see are horns and fangs, even as toggle options. Also, someone here mentioned giving both Hrothgar genders ear length sliders and I second that notion too. Non-hyur races suffer from a lack of diversity in face options and I always think that more options in Character Creator are always better. :D

Hard pass on making their faces longer imo. I think they look great as is and I'm highly considering playing one as they are.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Everyone loves to scream and nitpick and complain on these forums thinking that FFXIV design team is actually going to halt their work and cater to their every whim. I say don't like their designs? Don't play them. End of story.

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No one is complaining. Yoshi P quite literally asked for feedback, him and the developers DO listen to fans. That is how patches get fixed - because of feedback. People that complained so hard about certain things in the patches are now satisfied because it was FIXED. People that are actually complaining about this need to calm down and give positive feedback instead... That literally happened with Legacy FFXIV and ARR. I know the design team is exhausted, but they try so hard to make the game more appealing. Games become BETTER because of feedback, because the developers ACTUALLY listen. Thank you.

I don't think the muzzle needs to be lengthened quite like that. What's present in the trailers seems to be fairly in-line with what's present for hrothgar men (examples: one, two, three, four), even the particularly flat face option--similar to the Kimahri/Ronso face, which can be very short of snout.

As I did comment in the other thread though, I think it would help a lot in easing the uncanny feeling if they increase the line of the mouth / nose (upper lip?) width similar to what's seen in the latter part of this thread linked earlier. (Though I don't see the lip crease going away, as the men also have this lol.)

I'm here to add to the feedback regarding the muzzles, which are the only aspect of their design I actually take issue with. I've been waiting for these lion women for literal years so I'm not going to pass on any chances of giving the dev team feedback.

I don't mind the general face structure/proportions but the muzzle looks like a human woman with latex makeup applied. It looks really uncanny since, at least around the mouth, they don't seem to have the actual skull structure of a lion like their male counterparts.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1690/image.png

Since I understand these changes are a lot of work, I'm thinking the solution that would take the least effort is a combo of emphasizing the corners of the mouth by pulling them backwards a little, making the chin area smaller and adding a more bestial touch to the lips so that it actually looks like a lion's mouth. So fuller, rounder upper lips can be a solution to that.

Another way of emphasizing the animal shape would be to fix the nose bridge's structure around the eyes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5094/image.png

Also this is just wishful thinking but I really hope we get fang options for them. My character's personality is really shaped by her having those big ol chompers.

Aside from that, everything is perfect about them in my opinion! The body looks amazing, and the fact that the devs used a cheetah as reference for the first reveal of their in game model is really cute! People will have the more human-like face which looks good but I really want them to get the beastial faces right.

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Originally Posted by Zel_Zackarias

I think the body designs for fem Hroth are perfect and on point for what I was expecting and hoping for!

I would like to add (as others have) from this thread on twitter that the faces need to be elongated more. The short snout is much too "house cat". It's too smooshed/flat. It also contributes to making their heads look far too small.

The original thread is here: Twitter Thread


This is probably too large for the body proportions but this is something I really wish the DT trailer had going for it. It looks so much better with the longer muzzle. It's less "hyur with prosthetics on" and more "beast race":

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDNYa6zW...jpg&name=small

Alternatively the artist in the thread also redid a better compromise which I think would work perfectly:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDNczzQX...jpg&name=small

The above image is not too long but still retains that beast look I feel the designs shown in the trailers are really lacking. Longer muzzles also would make their heads look less tiny compared to the rest of the body.

Wider faces and mouths were also things mentioned in this thread I think are also sorely needed. Otherwise they end up looking too "human with costume make up on".

Other things I want to see are horns and fangs, even as toggle options. Also, someone here mentioned giving both Hrothgar genders ear length sliders and I second that notion too. Non-hyur races suffer from a lack of diversity in face options and I always think that more options in Character Creator are always better. :D

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i think this looks pretty bad tbqh plus the CGI always has its strange moments like Endwalker trailer graha and yshtola

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

THEY ARENT EVEN OUT YET

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Which is the perfect time to give feedback. Take Sonic from the Sonic movie, for example. If people hadn't voiced their criticism, we would have gotten human teeth tiny eyes Sonic.

And yeah, the muzzle definitely needs to be improved on a bit. Look at the males, then look at the females. As they are now, I can't really see them having fangs :(

im also curious if they'll even get to have whiskers like face 1 Hrothgar male does...

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Which is the perfect time to give feedback. Take Sonic from the Sonic movie, for example. If people hadn't voiced their criticism, we would have gotten human teeth tiny eyes Sonic.

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And take worgen from wow.

I love that we are finally getting female Hroths. The bodies and faces look fine to me but I would make the heads a bit bigger. Elezens have the same head size issue so I noticed it immediately when I saw the trailer.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

This is actually prime time to voice feedback. During this time between ShB and EW feedback was shared about male Viera and there were changes based on that feedback.

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Exactly. :) They have never changed the proportions of an already released race and they never will. Now is the best time to voice our concerns.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I love that we are finally getting female Hroths. The bodies and faces look fine to me but I would make the heads a bit bigger. Elezens have the same head size issue so I noticed it immediately when I saw the trailer.

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Yeh, this is what I was thinking, when I saw the ingame trailer. Some angles look fine, some looked really 'off', and after thinking about it for a while, I think the issue is that their neck is long, slightly too thin, and their head is a little small. They looked fine from the front (eg when the darkblue one was demonstrating the 'I am disappointed' emote), but the side angles like the starting 'sat down' make the neck thing super obvious. a 10%ish boost to the 'thickness' of the neck (but not the length) to imply more muscular definition there, and a 10%ish boost to all three dimensions of the head, would help a lot I think. And maybe a small bump to the length of the muzzle, as shown in this pic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDNczzQX...jpg&name=small

Because doing that would help what the dimensions of the face look like, when viewed from the side. Or give us a slider to adjust the muzzle length ourselves, so people can have flat-faces if they want

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Originally Posted by gatitatatita

I'm here to add to the feedback regarding the muzzles, which are the only aspect of their design I actually take issue with. I've been waiting for these lion women for literal years so I'm not going to pass on any chances of giving the dev team feedback.

I don't mind the general face structure/proportions but the muzzle looks like a human woman with latex makeup applied. It looks really uncanny since, at least around the mouth, they don't seem to have the actual skull structure of a lion like their male counterparts.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1690/image.png

Since I understand these changes are a lot of work, I'm thinking the solution that would take the least effort is a combo of emphasizing the corners of the mouth by pulling them backwards a little, making the chin area smaller and adding a more bestial touch to the lips so that it actually looks like a lion's mouth. So fuller, rounder upper lips can be a solution to that.

Another way of emphasizing the animal shape would be to fix the nose bridge's structure around the eyes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5094/image.png

Also this is just wishful thinking but I really hope we get fang options for them. My character's personality is really shaped by her having those big ol chompers.

Aside from that, everything is perfect about them in my opinion! The body looks amazing, and the fact that the devs used a cheetah as reference for the first reveal of their in game model is really cute! People will have the more human-like face which looks good but I really want them to get the beastial faces right.

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oooh, that would be really great! They really do look perfect with your edits. I love that little lion grin~

Hope we will be able to toggle their theeth just like the male ones

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Originally Posted by gatitatatita

I'm here to add to the feedback regarding the muzzles, which are the only aspect of their design I actually take issue with. I've been waiting for these lion women for literal years so I'm not going to pass on any chances of giving the dev team feedback.

I don't mind the general face structure/proportions but the muzzle looks like a human woman with latex makeup applied. It looks really uncanny since, at least around the mouth, they don't seem to have the actual skull structure of a lion like their male counterparts. (...)

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Yes!! This handily fixes what bothers me about the mouth! I'm in a similar boat of having waited years for their addition, so I really hope the devs can polish the more beastly faces.

As far as fang length goes... after dwelling on it some, they're explicitly an option on the character creation screen for the men, so I'd be very surprised if they weren't present. Details are one thing, sure, but the character creator is very consistent about toggle-able options between the sexes. Looking at the teeth in the trailer though, I wouldn't be surprised if the women end up with smaller, cuter fangs.

https://i.imgur.com/Iygr8NP.png

vs

https://i.imgur.com/ZDo0Ab3.png

I'm a bit conflicted about the thought. I picked the smaller option for my current hrothgar because I do think lil tooths jutting out are cute, but it'd be nice if it were possible to have options for folks who do want something more menacing. (This is admittedly speculation though.)

Yeah, the side-by-side really does make it look like the female Hrothgar have a human-shaped head and not what the males have.

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Originally Posted by Qurho

Yes!! This handily fixes what bothers me about the mouth! I'm in a similar boat of having waited years for their addition, so I really hope the devs can polish the more beastly faces.

As far as fang length goes... after dwelling on it some, they're explicitly an option on the character creation screen for the men, so I'd be very surprised if they weren't present. Details are one thing, sure, but the character creator is very consistent about toggle-able options between the sexes. Looking at the teeth in the trailer though, I wouldn't be surprised if the women end up with smaller, cuter fangs. (...)

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Godddd this one female face gives me whiplash :'3 the mouth is so tinyyyyyy!!!

It's so small... how am I supposed to expect these women to bite down on cartoon meat on a bone.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah, the side-by-side really does make it look like the female Hrothgar have a human-shaped head and not what the males have.

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Yeah. I'm not necessarily opposed to the shape, I'm sure it's easier for the devs to work with + some hairstyles will help cover how tall and rounded the forehead feels. But I do think something along the lines of gatitatatita's nose bridge/mouth edits would go a long way.

I really like the ideas of a nose-slider, and the modifications/suggestions by gatitatatita and ForsakenRoe. Something that helps emphasize the muzzle/nose shape more. Otherwise super excited for lady Hroth at last!

Oh man. I was wondering why I thought the female Hrothgar from the cinematic trailer was bothering me so much... Now I know it's the blatant lack of a muzzle. They threw lion-like features on a flat face and called it a day.
What is it with this obsession to always want to "humanify" anthro female characters to keep them "prettier"? We want female Hrothgar. They got it right with the males, why is it so hard to make the females not look like a slightly furrier FFXI Mithra?
I really really hope they'll fix this...

I'd say they got it right. The faces we saw in the trailer are based on short muzzled felines. A lioness, a cheetah, and a lynx. We'll just have to see if they keep it up with the 4th option if there will be one. I guess as others have said, they could make it more pronounced what they're based off of to clear this up.

I’m on the fence about these improvements/modifications. I look at the examples and I like some of them, while others are strange to me. I do think the muzzles should be a little longer; staring at screenshots and looking at the trailer made my mind up about that. Yet I also think the complaint about the nose being too small and possibly even the mouth being too small could possibly be fixed with options provided by the benchmark.

It’s been awhile since I made my hrothgar alt, but if the mouth can’t be made wider by customization options + the muzzle being made a little longer then I would really like that to be tinkered before they are officially released. I really adore the middle hrothgal in the trailer at the end and I would love for her to be as best as she can.

For reference, these are the options available to the men:

https://i.imgur.com/JkjaWEf.png

It's safe to assume the women will have similar to pick from. Though that would mean there's no option for Mouth size like some races have (Hyur, Lalafell, etc). At best, adjusting the fang length pinches in the upper lip a bit to reflect the teeth sticking out.

There are a solid variety of noses to pick from for the men, so I'm holding out on a little bit of hope there. They can impact the muzzle, but the result may be slight depending on the face and option picked. Using the Kimahri/Ronso face as an example, as it's the flattest snout:

https://i.imgur.com/wP3dEVV.png https://i.imgur.com/Vbxd7TE.png

Further reference note: The hrothgal seen at the very end of the trailer (to the right) seems to be the parallel to the above face type, between the short snout, similar helion markings, and the face tattoo.

Female Hrothgar look like a human wearing a cat mask or cat face prosthetic, but having a longer nose profile might help as well as less poofy jowls
I'd like to see them have some more contour to help outline their feline facial features as well as spot and stripe examples that they have
Their chins being square in the example also gives a more human face appearance, so I think if they had some kind of angled eyebrow and a more narrow chin it'd help pass the more beast feline vibe
And a slightly larger head- in the trailer, their heads are small

They feel a bit flat faced for a race based on big cats. A longer muzzle would be nice option to have. The edits some have shown look a lot nicer.

They're far better than I was cynically anticipating, although, without access to a benchmark, the only core complaint that comes to mind is that I hope there's some more facial options that elongate the snout a bit more than some of the examples they showcased. But, that did exist on one with the in-game trailer for them -- so it's likely just a lack of access to the benchmark to see what's all there.

I do hope there's some more variations for the tails and lengths, since male Hrothgar always felt kinda stubby and small in that department and some more variation would be nice to see. From what they mentioned, I presume hats are intended to work on them, but that'd also be something I'd repeat as an important thing to like, make work.

And, for me, so long as I can create a lady Hrothgar who feels like a built warrior in some way, with ideally some gruffer voice options, I'll be pretty happy. And if the max height is taller than I am irl, I'd be even happier lmao.

But, all in all, they're what I was largely hoping to see. I was worried it'd be another frail, waifish, slender, soft, style -- and we have plenty of that right now, imo. So, I'm glad they did what I figured made sense -- going with the roegadyn female skeleton -- instead of doing something like... the elezen one, or making them feel weirdly cutesy and small compared to their male counterparts (e.g: aura).

They are likely going to use the femroe skeleton for hrothgals but I hope they will not replicate the hip-tilt femroes have. All skirts and dresses droop down at the back on a femroe and it's quite annoying.

https://i.postimg.cc/FKGbcbKm/ffxiv-...103050-088.png

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Originally Posted by Reinha

They are likely going to use the femroe skeleton

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Based on what? I thought in 7.0 every mesh was normalized.

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Originally Posted by gatitatatita

I'm here to add to the feedback regarding the muzzles, which are the only aspect of their design I actually take issue with. I've been waiting for these lion women for literal years so I'm not going to pass on any chances of giving the dev team feedback.

I don't mind the general face structure/proportions but the muzzle looks like a human woman with latex makeup applied. It looks really uncanny since, at least around the mouth, they don't seem to have the actual skull structure of a lion like their male counterparts.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1690/image.png

Since I understand these changes are a lot of work, I'm thinking the solution that would take the least effort is a combo of emphasizing the corners of the mouth by pulling them backwards a little, making the chin area smaller and adding a more bestial touch to the lips so that it actually looks like a lion's mouth. So fuller, rounder upper lips can be a solution to that.

Another way of emphasizing the animal shape would be to fix the nose bridge's structure around the eyes.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5094/image.png

Also this is just wishful thinking but I really hope we get fang options for them. My character's personality is really shaped by her having those big ol chompers.

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these edits look really great, and fix pretty much all the issues that i currently have at least with that specific head.

one of my favourite things about male hrothgar is their distinct cat like ":3" expression that they naturally have, and i feel like it would be a huge shame if the females don't get an option to have that as well.

i'm also really hoping that they'll get fang options, and at least one face with whiskers as well.

I'm mostly happy with them. I understand it's pretty hard to show muscle definition when their skin is covered in fur, but I would have liked to see more toned arms as a nitpick. I hope very much there's a fang length toggle, because hrothgar having cute fangs is iconic at this point! Love how regal their starter gear is, too, I haven't seen anybody say anything bad about that.

I think the best part about female Hrothgar is that they actually have butts. I hope this is an indication of a wider trend in 7.0, it's been too long with every character having the flattest junk in their trunk.

Adding my support to this in making their muzzles just a little bit larger.

I'm gonna quote what I said in the other thread:

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Originally Posted by Destati

100000% support. Their muzzles need to be bigger, and the edits make them look so much better. Give them the mouth corners!!!
It also just occurred to me that hairstyles might be locked to face again, so I would like to take the opportunity to beg the devs not to do that... I adore the short hairstyle but it's on the most uncanny-valley face and I'd like to use it on a different one. (And I hope males get their hairstyles unlocked from their faces too for 7.0...)

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I love how they look BUT:

I hope the sliders will allow more variety in terms of muzzle/mouth/face structre to please most of the players.

aside from the normal viera/hoth hat and hair options, the only issue i have with them is any clothing that goes up the arm looks fully cursed. a lot of them make their arms almost larger than their torso

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=3277579145
now you seen it you cant unsee it XD