I removed mentor status today.

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

Yes, that's right, it's so great on Twintania. That's why so many old Mentors are gone.
And so many new Mentors there, who are Trolling in the Network.
A bunch of Mentors and Sprouts talks about the MSQ in the NN and spoiler the Story for all others.
Another Group is ERPing there with disgusting Licking stuff and a lot Sprouts are using the Network for their Real Live problems.
So many Sprouts begging for someone to register for a certain Dungeon, Trial, or Raid in the Duty Finder because the waiting time is far too long.
Sprouts spam Macros in the Network and even if you say something several times, nothing happens.
But if a Sprout writes a 0 in the chat then instant kick because he is spamming the chat and besides that, that Sprout is always a dirty Bot.
It goes so far that Sprouts spams the Chat with "Ohh he is back again" after 30 Minutes or "Can a Mentor Kick?" It is like a bunch of Sprouts Mobbing another Sprout.
Is this behavior for you normal or even nice?

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Yes that last part is very common on my server. As for wanting help quing I find nothing wrong with that. Its w Mentors job to help Sprouts

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Yes that last part is very common on my server. As for wanting help quing I find nothing wrong with that. Its w Mentors job to help Sprouts

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Haveing expereinced dps que myself - It's understandable. (waiting 20m-30m-1hr is not fun)
Thats why i advince everyone (DPS) to que up with Tank/Heal..:P

I personality loves to run older content
and is happy to que with players who wants shorter que time ^o^

ofc people will use NN as own chat, coz guest what, game does not have other public chats

I think for the mentor system , it's very bad in every DC , the reason behind it is how the system works , as you can see ,the word mentor means
[ an experienced and trusted adviser. ]
what I have seen is that there is mentors who are not an experienced let alone trusted adviser , it's such a joke that anybody can be a so called mentor , yes there is a good mentors out there who are willing to do what it takes to help other's , and as ryouma17 said , there is like more people without the crown helping and doing what these who own the crown should do , but yeah people want it for the mount or just to look cool , hope they make it a better system.

Funny enough, I was on a Sarg alt the other day and I did see a mentor kick one person that's apparently banned from the NN who is making alts to ban evade.

That said, hey, if you see that stuff as a mentor. Kick and report people. It's part of your duties.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Funny enough, I was on a Sarg alt the other day and I did see a mentor kick one person that's apparently banned from the NN who is making alts to ban evade.

That said, hey, if you see that stuff as a mentor. Kick and report people. It's part of your duties.

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U cant get banned from nn. Don't recommend kicking any1. Report the behaviour and end it there. Otherwise they're putting there account at risk

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Originally Posted by CvClone

I think for the mentor system , it's very bad in every DC , the reason behind it is how the system works , as you can see ,the word mentor means
[ an experienced and trusted adviser. ]
what I have seen is that there is mentors who are not an experienced let alone trusted adviser , it's such a joke that anybody can be a so called mentor , yes there is a good mentors out there who are willing to do what it takes to help other's , and as ryouma17 said , there is like more people without the crown helping and doing what these who own the crown should do , but yeah people want it for the mount or just to look cool , hope they make it a better system.

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Most of the mentors in NN aren't there to mentor. They're there to retain access to NN after losing sprout status.

It's way too easy to get trade mentor, unfortunately (saying this even as someone who got in as trade mentor since I don't comm farm). Collectables were a lot more difficult to complete before the 5.1 changes to crafting and gathering (especially the addition of Trained Eye, which trivializes any collectable 10 levels below your class level). If SE wants mentors to meet specific requirements other than a desire to help new players, they should include Expert crafts and legendary Reductions as trade mentor requirements.

But honestly it would be better if they would review the entire system for a revamp, taking into account how players have ended up using it compared to their original expectations.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Most of the mentors in NN aren't there to mentor. They're there to retain access to NN after losing sprout status.

It's way too easy to get trade mentor, unfortunately (saying this even as someone who got in as trade mentor since I don't comm farm). Collectables were a lot more difficult to complete before the 5.1 changes to crafting and gathering (especially the addition of Trained Eye, which trivializes any collectable 10 levels below your class level). If SE wants mentors to meet specific requirements other than a desire to help new players, they should include Expert crafts and legendary Reductions as trade mentor requirements.

But honestly it would be better if they would review the entire system for a revamp, taking into account how players have ended up using it compared to their original expectations.

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The issue is, every MMO outside FFXIV has a global chat!,
FFXIV does not have global chat - However NN inconveniently function as one.
Its the closest thing you get to a global chat ingame.(sadly)

And before anyone mentions- but we have CWLs ..bla bla..
They're just a glorified group-chat room
with already established players(friend groups)...

Adding global chat(s) to the game would have solved much :P

Indeed , for me i believe it would be better if mentors are being taken , so when someone try to be one , only those who got the will and skill to be one , not just to fit some list of stuff , as of gathering and crafting , and some of those who own crafting Mentor , don't really got a idea about crafting itself , but as I said there is good mentors out there , met some myself , and i wish to see their numbers grow bigger.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

The issue is, every MMO outside FFXIV has a global chat!,

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ESO - no

GW2 - no

SWTOR - no

Eve Online - no

Lost Ark (yuck) - no

Runescape - no

Were you being sarcastic? Or just exaggerating?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

ESO - no

GW2 - no

SWTOR - no

Eve Online - no

Lost Ark (yuck) - no

Runescape - no

Were you being sarcastic? Or just exaggerating?

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Now, look up all MMOs that has a global/world chat while you're at it. :P

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Sargatanas used to have a helpful and entertaining novice network and I was happy to be mentor on that server. Other servers were having problems with their novice networks spiraling into filthy decay but Sargatanas was still keeping to the original vision for the chat in the face of that for years.

That's changed. All I see when I connected to the novice network for a long time now is degenerate filth. There is excessive trolling by both sprouts and mentors and it's totally out of check. There are also a lot of players who are constantly steering the conversation to their obsession with fetishes that most people in the chat are not involved with and again this is both sprouts and mentors. The trolling and fetish talk is actively encouraged.

I hoped some older mentors would help try to reign in the chat. They seem to not be coming around anymore either. If I was a new player connecting to that chat I would assume FFXIV is just full of trolls and furry ERP. If that's the impression you want SE, it's your decision to leave the novice network chats user moderated.

One of the last decent novice network chats is an embarrassment. And the crown is embarrassing.

RIP Sarg NN.

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News flash. No mentor chat is like the old days. In fact the old days weren't what you think. At the start it was helpful but then quickly turned to whatever.

It's always been a glorified chat room. Heck most "mentors" are there just to chat and that's it. I've seen multiple times where story was discussed, trolls, bots etc. A few worlds are good about shutting up when it comes to story or answering questions immediately.

However, with no consequences, the chats won't get better. If they had a system in place might be better. Till then, not a chat really needed. The REAL mentors aren't in there anyways and still help how they can. Also seem way more knowledgeable then the dreg you can find in there.

So many times I've seen misinformation given in novnet

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

Now, look up all MMOs that has a global/world chat while you're at it. :P

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I just tried. Almost every suggestion of a game with a global channel had someone point out how said channel wasn't global. The only one that didn't seem to have any counterpoints was Albion.

Not even WoW has a true global chat channel. The closest you get is Trade chat and that only reaches players that are in the main cities.

So I guess the list is Albion? If you know of more, you may want to post them for the benefit of those looking for a MMO with a true global chat.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

Funny enough, I was on a Sarg alt the other day and I did see a mentor kick one person that's apparently banned from the NN who is making alts to ban evade.

That said, hey, if you see that stuff as a mentor. Kick and report people. It's part of your duties.

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I know the player you are referencing. Some mentors will kick that player on sight as they should because the player only trolls. The trouble with that is we have mentors who are also trolls. Those troll mentors defend this player and other trolls when they are in NN. Feels like a lost cause. GM reports have been filed by lots of people about the trolls who consistently troll. Those trolls keep coming into NN. Mentors who upset the welcoming atmosphere of NN intentionally for the drama it creates should lose their crowns if they do it consistently. There needs to be some wiggle room there because some people are just having a bad day or whatever but if it becomes a pattern, remove the crown.

I never care at all if people use NN as a world chat. It helps new players and lonely players connect with others which is a good thing. To be fair, I never see requests for information or help get ignored in Sarg NN. What has been bothering me is seeing the chat trend toward trolling and people's personal fetishes.

I've only ever had one criteria for kicking from NN. I would kick instigators. The chat was made with the purpose of helping new players connect with others in the game and especially with experienced players. New players who connect to NN could have all sorts of different world views. It seems obvious that SE would like all new players to feel welcome and respected. If the NN is to be welcoming and respectful to all new players, comments that start flamewars should be avoided. If I saw a flamewar starting or sprouts started to complain chat was getting creepy or annoying, I would kick the instigator. I kind of burned out on trying to moderate. The trolls and creepy people keep coming back and some of them are actively encouraged.

There was a really good run where people in Sarg NN were excellent to each other most of the time and pretty chill. Near the end of the last few expansions I saw some problems but it wasn't bad enough to comment on really. But this last half year has been unusually bad. There are people just being jerks to others in there and there are people dominating the conversation with topics that creep out enough people that eventually some quieter sprouts start to complain. Like, just get a room or a linkshell or form a party or whatever.

A world chat would be nice.

GMs stripping the crown from mentors who consistently start problems in NN would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

ESO - no

GW2 - no

SWTOR - no

Eve Online - no

Lost Ark (yuck) - no

Runescape - no

Were you being sarcastic? Or just exaggerating?

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Eve Online - Yes

He means public channels, that u can join on ur own, without begging some one for invite.
EvE online, for example, has tons of public channels, and these channels are global, u just press Join from the default channel list, or type a channel name and press Join, and there is no limit to how many channels u can join, and how many players can sit in these channels, and these channels always works, even if u are in WH space or Abyssal instance.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Not even WoW has a true global chat channel

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wow has global optional Language Channels.
also Wow has default LookingForGroup channel and optional GlobalDefence.

also Wow has global channels made by users.

Perhaps if everyone is having fun in NN but you, maybe you are the problem.

Let people have fun and stop being a party pooper.

You don't like people having fun and can't handle it ? Leave it and move on with your life.

So far, the NN in Ultros seems to be fine checking it out now. It's mostly being used like a General Chat for anyone anywhere, but I am seeing the sprout questions getting answered. I think I have only had a minor argument with one mentor on it. It was mostly about them not using Regen at all and stating that Afflatus: Solace is all you need. I mean, I didn't fully disagree since it just depends how geared the tanks and healers are if you need it and what content it is.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Perhaps if everyone is having fun in NN but you, maybe you are the problem.

Let people have fun and stop being a party pooper.

You don't like people having fun and can't handle it ? Leave it and move on with your life.

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Not in this case. Both mentors and sprouts have told me these things are frustrating them. And I'm also frustrated. NN is a special case for a channel. It needs to stay fun for most, if not all, participants because of its express goals. Either that or SE can change their stance about the goal of the channel. I don't care about seeing these sorts of behaviours in other chats all around the internet. If I see trolling or ERP in a region chat, I don't care at all. NN should be welcoming to all new players at all times since it can be the first connection some players make with others in this game. Or have I missed the point of why SE made NN in the first place?

This thread is my attempt to draw SE's attention to the discrepancy between what I was led to believe NN should be versus what it actually is. I'm especially concerned because Sarg's NN has been so excellent and chill for so long and now it's full of drama resulting from excessive trolling and conversations that make many people uncomfortable. I used to frequently invite sprouts because I knew every sprout I invited would find that Sarg NN was a positive addition to their FFXIV experience. I don't think that's the case anymore. I haven't wanted to invite sprouts in a long time because I know some of them would find it frustrating. It's carried on for long enough now and the problematic behaviour is so frequent that I'd like to draw attention to the lack of GM intervention in NN on this forum again.

At the very least this thread has been a constructive conversation 6 pages in and it's great to see the input.

I want to add a few thoughts.

Here's how I used to see chat behave. If a player started to lead into a conversation that causes angry arguing in the general public, that person would be asked to tone it back. I rarely saw mentors bringing up such topics or encouraging those sprouts who did. I'm troubled that this is no longer the case. Such topics are more and more frequent and they tend to continue until people start to make comments that they're bothered. This is what troubles me.

If players know something they want to talk about is probably going to bother a decent number of NN participants, they should feel free to talk about it but in another chat. Unless those players are tolling. Trolling should not be tolerated and we need a way to deal with repeated trolling from mentors.

People can get excited about things that are often very divisive and that's totally fine. But NN needs to stay welcoming to new players with all sorts of differing world views.

It always starts the same way. A player starts to talk about something that leads to strong feelings in more than a few people reading chat. The player gets interested responses and is encouraged to take the conversation further. More toes get stepped on and eventually those who are getting frustrated speak up. Arguing follows. People get upset. Someone gets kicked. And sometimes a kickwar follows. By this time some new players are thinking that NN really is as bad as the forums make it out to be.

All I'm asking is to keep it classy and if things start to get uncomfortable in NN then please be excellent to your other NN participants and take the conversation to another chat instead of waiting until people start to react.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Here's how I used to see chat behave. If a player started to lead into a conversation that causes angry arguing in the general public, that person would be asked to tone it back.

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I'm glad when this happens or if they just avoid discussing such subjects in the first place. But it only happens in some novice networks and only when certain mentors are around. There are also many novice networks that just don't have behaviour like that very often in the first place. You can world visit and check out some of the others too.

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I rarely saw mentors bringing up such topics or encouraging those sprouts who did. I'm troubled that this is no longer the case. Such topics are more and more frequent and they tend to continue until people start to make comments that they're bothered. This is what troubles me.

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It troubles me as well. Unfortunately, it does happen in some novice networks, but as I've said previously, it can often be just "what is happening right now" and when you see it in several months time it may be completely different, with different people subscribed or being a sprout. I know some people are long-term people who are always there, but everything changes eventually even if it takes years. For example, I eventually transferred away from a server I was on.

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If players know something they want to talk about is probably going to bother a decent number of NN participants, they should feel free to talk about it but in another chat. Unless those players are tolling.

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I agree completely. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not very considerate. They don't think about how things may come across to others or how it may make others feel. If people were considerate in this game then you wouldn't have GMs warning people for being rude in dungeons or thinking that the rules are "too strict" when they only amount to "being considerate", a very basic social skill.

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Trolling should not be tolerated and we need a way to deal with repeated trolling from mentors.

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I wish we did. We can kick, but so can they so it doesn't go very well.

I never knew you could remove mentor status. Every time I login I'm put in the mentor status for NN. I never have my crown turned on.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I never knew you could remove mentor status. Every time I login I'm put in the mentor status for NN. I never have my crown turned on.

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You can leave NN like a sprout can but you can turn auto-join on whenever you want. You can also remove your mentor status at the smith. There is a 30 day wait period to reinstate if you wish to do so.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Okay ? Good for you I guess? If you don't like it leave it, let people have fun. If the majority of the people in there are having fun, don't be the fun police.

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Imagine actually defending publicly speaking about fetish, furry, and incest porn.

Seems like if anyone complains about anything you're ready to jump down their throats. If anyone here is police, it's you.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Imagine actually defending publicly speaking about fetish, furry, and incest porn.

Seems like if anyone complains about anything you're ready to jump down their throats. If anyone here is police, it's you.

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If you don't like wats happening in nn. Either leave or report it and blist. Crying over it is a laughable waste of time

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

You can leave NN like a sprout can but you can turn auto-join on whenever you want. You can also remove your mentor status at the smith. There is a 30 day wait period to reinstate if you wish to do so.

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Doesn't that remove your ability to participate in mentor roulette? You're shooting yourself in the foot to spite a few mentors lmao.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

If you don't like wats happening in nn. Either leave or report it and blist. Crying over it is a laughable waste of time

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God forbid people have discussions on a forum.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

God forbid people have discussions on a forum.

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I hate to say it, but mans proving that male au'ra seem to attract a certain type of person to the race :|

The whole mentor system is a failed experiment. It's time for SE to rebuild it from the ground up, starting with mentors actually being qualified mentors.

I mean, the Mentor Roulette seems to only really be used for a couple purposes. The unique mount is obviously one and a friend of mine sometimes farms second chance points to try his luck for a 3 line Wondrous Tales. Other than that, we also have a Trial roulette that has a decent chance for new players and usually a slightly higher tome reward for quick clears too. Plus no Extremes can come up in the Trial roulette.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Doesn't that remove your ability to participate in mentor roulette? You're shooting yourself in the foot to spite a few mentors lmao.

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no the only thing that keeps you from participating in mentor roulette is not being caught up on EX trials. I never use Novice Network as a Mentor

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

I hate to say it, but mans proving that male au'ra seem to attract a certain type of person to the race :|

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I'm a girl lmao
please elaborate so i can get a good laugh out of what you think you know about me

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Originally Posted by iVolke

God forbid people have discussions on a forum.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Imagine actually defending publicly speaking about fetish, furry, and incest porn

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there is no discussion to be had. nothing is ever going to change and screeching about it is going to fix nothing either. i am not some sexual degenerate defending it; like you seam to default on. i am somebody who tried too and failed to moderate my own NN. thats when i realized that the best solution was to blacklist those people, and engage in the conversations i felt like i could contribute too, instead of shoehorning my way in demanding other people talk about what I want them to talk about. its the same for fcs and shout chats.
if you keep being assertive whilst having no real authority or power... you will only turn people against you.

im sorry some ppl in NN hurt youre feefees but you just have to learn to live with it like a grown up.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

...yikes?
i hope youre not insinuating what i think you are insinuating.. but feel free to elaborate on exactly what you're implying
im a girl.




there is no discussion to be had. nothing is ever going to change and screeching about it is going to fix nothing either. i am not some sexual degenerate defending it; like you seam to default on. i am somebody who tried too and failed to moderate my own NN. thats when i realized that the best solution was to blacklist those people, and engage in the conversations i felt like i could contribute too, instead of shoehorning my way in demanding other people talk about what I want them to talk about. its the same for fcs and shout chats.
if you keep being assertive whilst having no real authority or power... you will only turn people against you.

im sorry some ppl in NN hurt youre feefees but you just have to learn to live with it like a grown up.

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And yet you keep going out of your way to defend it. Clearly you agree with them. You're telling the normal people to stfu and not discuss it and let the degenerates do as they please.

Yes there is discussion to be had, the 8 pages on this topic as evidence.

Seems like you're taking this very personally, which would be weird if you don't participate in that stuff.

You'll get banned if you say "F**k yeah!" after winning a mount, yet you can talk about your diaper fetish all day long in nn? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

And yet you keep going out of your way to defend it. Clearly you agree with them. You're telling the normal people to stfu and not discuss it and let the degenerates do as they please.

Yes there is discussion to be had, the 8 pages on this topic as evidence.

Seems like you're taking this very personally, which would be weird if you don't participate in that stuff.

You'll get banned if you say "F**k yeah!" after winning a mount, yet you can talk about your diaper fetish all day long in nn? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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That same person who is defending fetish talk and other degenerate things that are discussed in novice network is the same person who claims they hated the entire community and blames the community for how much they dislike endwalkers and its lack of content to do a 180 and now defending the game and cash shop and degenerate chat in nn and saying how we don't need anymore jobs because it's too much content. I only been in nn chat on a alt for a few minutes before leaving because people didn't use it to actually be helpful and mentor people and used it for degenrate erp/fetish talk and if anyone ask questions in it they get talked down on to the point of leaving the chat because people want to use it as a public sex chat and politics talk or to troll people.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

The mentors who were governing the channel when I was a sprout had some soft rules. No politics. No religion. No ERP. No advertising. No trolling. Warns and kicks were swift.

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The funny thing about this is some of those rules are actually an abuse of power. For example, if you got kicked from NN for talking about religion, I'm pretty certain you could report the mentors. Nothing in SE's own ToS makes that a taboo topic and infact it could be considered discrimination to "warn" people over it. The problem with a lot of NN is that self elected friend groups think it's theirs to govern.

They should just change the Icon/symbol to something else and most people wouldnt have as big a issue with this clown system.

Crowns are for Legends.

period.

The rule to have no politics or religion in the chat is not really made to be a jerk. I usually don't mind as much talking about it on occasion, but it doesn't change the fact that it can be a very sensitive topic for some people. It can result in very aggressive and violent reactions when you argue with someone who won't listen to your point of view for these topics. Now, letting people know to be patient and listen would be a nice long term goal, but there are those battles that won't end with this understanding. Some of us have to learn the tough lesson to simply walk away since the person you're trying to help has to acknowledge that first. It gets nowhere if neither side can admit to any misunderstandings they have for the other person.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

And yet you keep going out of your way to defend it. Clearly you agree with them. You're telling the normal people to stfu and not discuss it and let the degenerates do as they please.
Seems like you're taking this very personally, which would be weird if you don't participate in that stuff.

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lmao. u are so ligitmatly closed minded that i feel sorry for you. youre brain cannot fathom that i might not be defending it and also taking a neutrality stance, and i find that really really sad. so go on and belive as u wish.

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

I hate to say it, but mans proving that male au'ra seem to attract a certain type of person to the race :|

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very odd you wanna be NN police but you let this slide. it does apply to you aswell

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

That same person who is defending fetish talk and other degenerate things that are discussed in novice network is the same person who claims they hated the entire community and blames the community for how much they dislike endwalkers and its lack of content to do a 180 and now defending the game and cash shop and degenerate chat in nn and saying how we don't need anymore jobs because it's too much content. I only been in nn chat on a alt for a few minutes before leaving because people didn't use it to actually be helpful and mentor people and used it for degenrate erp/fetish talk and if anyone ask questions in it they get talked down on to the point of leaving the chat because people want to use it as a public sex chat and politics talk or to troll people.

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youre being grossly disengenous. firstly. i am not defending fetish talk and i would really appreciate you dont perpetuate that. i dont need random uninteligents on my case accusing me of that kinda thing and using my race as legitimization. if you knew what happened to me as kid youde never imply such assumptions about me in my presence again honestly..

secondly. this is what .. the second time? now ive had to reaffirm i dont hate this games community.. i just said its gotten more toxic, and youre literally proving it.
finally, i am not defneding the entire cashshop. i defended people being shamed for using it.. my god girl what is what this blatent slander

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Imagine actually defending publicly speaking about fetish, furry, and incest porn.

Seems like if anyone complains about anything you're ready to jump down their throats. If anyone here is police, it's you.

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I actually hadnt seen this post

are you ok my dude ? i'd love for you to show evidences of me defending that please, thank you, that's a very very big claim to make.