Please stop hiding miqo'te ears (and other races') from certain head gear

This really pissed me off.
https://i.imgur.com/aNRtpsk.jpg

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Originally Posted by MsQi

This really pissed me off.
https://i.imgur.com/aNRtpsk.jpg

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That original art expression though lol

https://media.tenor.com/oXdNqywltMwA...eepy-smile.gif

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

That original art expression though lol

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Lol! It is is quite goofy.

This was one of the reasons I fanta'd off of au ra. The glams felt hella short-changed and rushed a lot of the time. Like that fat cat costume where the tail just doesn't exist. Or all the helmets where our horns just kind of lazily clip through... it often feels like there was some aesthetic designer dude in ARR/HW maybe, who knew how to design helmets with ear-pockets, but then he just left and nobody's been able to do that work since.

Bumping for visibility and support now that the JP fan fest has shown us more in regards of the graphic update on both characters and gear.

Also, the Pictomancer's concept art model is a male miqo'te with the ears hidden. The hat he is wearing is big enough for that, but still. That's two male miqo'te being shown as models for the two newest jobs and no ears in sight...

you get that there are no bones in ears right? that ears would not show threw hats right? ever worn a beanie?

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

you get that there are no bones in ears right? that ears would not show threw hats right? ever worn a beanie?

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Just because they don't have bones doesn't mean they're going to collapse down to nothing at all. They're still a solid (even if flexible) part of the body that needs space and would be uncomfortable to squish down too much.

Hold the top part of your ear and fold it downwards. Would you choose to wear a hat that pressed your ears into that position the whole time you were wearing it?

And a beanie might hide human ears but would be less likely to hide larger shapes. Lighter fabrics should drape. Helmets should be moulded to fit.

Miqo'te hats should make space for Miqo'te ears. It's that simple.

Bumping for visibility

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Just because they don't have bones doesn't mean they're going to collapse down to nothing at all. They're still a solid (even if flexible) part of the body that needs space and would be uncomfortable to squish down too much.

Hold the top part of your ear and fold it downwards. Would you choose to wear a hat that pressed your ears into that position the whole time you were wearing it?

And a beanie might hide human ears but would be less likely to hide larger shapes. Lighter fabrics should drape. Helmets should be moulded to fit.

Miqo'te hats should make space for Miqo'te ears. It's that simple.

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cat ears fold flat naturally, cartilage for animal ears is not thick, even human ears stick out, but not when wearing a cloth hat or hood.
take my dog for instance, a 70lb Siberian husky with ears that stay upright at all times, a bed sheet hold his ears down just draped.
just because you believe it, doesent make it true.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

The Viper showcasing with a male miqo'te and the gear removing his ears was really cringe. It's really aggravating to have gear that just removes their ears.
Like, there's this giant graphic update but they seem to have forgotten that other races have different ears- in a giant update such as that, gear that removes racial features should be something of the past.

I wish more players were vocal about miqo'te ears/au ra tails being removed

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cat ears ar emade or cartilage, not bone, they fold over just fine, esp with how small they are

tbh, i also prefer it if fear just folds over the ears, otherwise it looks like this to me
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/omIAA...2/s-l1200.webp

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

cat ears ar emade or cartilage, not bone, they fold over just fine, esp with how small they are

tbh, i also prefer it if fear just folds over the ears, otherwise it looks like this to me
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/omIAA...2/s-l1200.webp

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What's wrong with that? The horse looks cute :D

Edit: Actually if you want to bring up horses as an argument point, horse armor is/was made to allow ear space.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Edit: horse armor is/was made to allow ear space.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Dude this is a fantasy game

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this you? kinda weird that you cant compare the game to reality unless it supports your wants..

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

this you? kinda weird that you cant compare the game to reality unless it supports your wants..

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I actually can. I brought that up because people keep wanting to compare it to reality. I firmly stand by my point that this is a fantasy game and therefore we don't need to care about a lot of things like armor shape. But also if people really do want to compare this to reality there's certainly things you can draw upon.

You made the point either in this thread or the other that armor shape should be a concern based on how that would actually work in a fight as opposed to aesthetic. Why not both designs? It's a fantasy game and the individual player should have those options of what appeals to them. For me that's having racial traits be displayed, at least on my character, at all times. If a piece of equipment doesn't allow for that then I never use it. It's a dead piece of gear for me. If there were options to allow for both avenues then more people could use those pieces.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I actually can. I brought that up because people keep wanting to compare it to reality. I firmly stand by my point that this is a fantasy game and therefore we don't need to care about a lot of things like armor shape. But also if people really do want to compare this to reality there's certainly things you can draw upon.

You made the point either in this thread or the other that armor shape should be a concern based on how that would actually work in a fight as opposed to aesthetic. Why not both designs? It's a fantasy game and the individual player should have those options of what appeals to them. For me that's having racial traits be displayed, at least on my character, at all times. If a piece of equipment doesn't allow for that then I never use it. It's a dead piece of gear for me. If there were options to allow for both avenues then more people could use those pieces.

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you say a choice is good, i agrees, yet it seems that every time an option is given for outfits without the ears people loose their collective minds, i get your advocating for a toggle, i have brought that ideal up as well in the past, but in the mean time, 80% of the outfits have the ears, leave the 20% i like alone thanks.

as for the people comparing it to reality, i was also responding to others forcing the conversation in that direction, and feel like you were trying to rail me for it, so yeah i'm gonna look at you like a hypocrite for trying to use the argument yourself.

you know that that we agree for the most part, i just disagree that they should make all the outfits one way, let there be diversity. or let lazy square make a toggle, but i doubt they will, they wont make hats work for some of our races already, let alone make them work twice for one race.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

you say a choice is good, i agrees, yet it seems that every time an option is given for outfits without the ears people loose their collective minds, i get your advocating for a toggle, i have brought that ideal up as well in the past, but in the mean time, 80% of the outfits have the ears, leave the 20% i like alone thanks.

as for the people comparing it to reality, i was also responding to others forcing the conversation in that direction, and feel like you were trying to rail me for it, so yeah i'm gonna look at you like a hypocrite for trying to use the argument yourself.

you know that that we agree for the most part, i just disagree that they should make all the outfits one way, let there be diversity. or let lazy square make a toggle, but i doubt they will, they wont make hats work for some of our races already, let alone make them work twice for one race.

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To be clear, if it can only work one way then I would vote in favor of ear pockets/holes always. I would prefer a toggle but I 100% have a preference. My point with using the horse armor example is moreso because other people kept comparing to reality and I felt that was a decent real life example to say "Hey there are examples of this working in real life as well." Overall I'm just not in favor with using realism as an argument to take away racial features. I do agree with the earlier comparison to tails clipping through capes like they are holograms being bad though. Part of the reason why I never wear capes in this game.

Mao having chuckle here. Hairless Cats at least gots ears. SE too cheaps to model Au Ra with ears and horns.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

snip

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im not talking about ear condoms, im talking about actual ear cut-outs

This is an image of an actual hat in the game
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...76fc79b1c5c14&

(and the horse looks cute btw)

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

im not talking about ear condoms, im talking about actual ear cut-outs

This is an image of an actual hat in the game
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...76fc79b1c5c14&

(and the horse looks cute btw)

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oh i absoutely prefer a cut out or even just let it clip, tbh. i just think the ear socks are silly

but if the ears have to fold over ? i dont really mind, ive put my dogs in hoodies for walks

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Originally Posted by Xirean

To be clear, if it can only work one way then I would vote in favor of ear pockets/holes always. I would prefer a toggle but I 100% have a preference. My point with using the horse armor example is moreso because other people kept comparing to reality and I felt that was a decent real life example to say "Hey there are examples of this working in real life as well." Overall I'm just not in favor with using realism as an argument to take away racial features. I do agree with the earlier comparison to tails clipping through capes like they are holograms being bad though. Part of the reason why I never wear capes in this game.

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well you got a preference and so do i, but if we have to only deal in absolutes then i prefer no ears at all then..
the fantasy race is really not a strong argument, its the same as saying your character has nice hair, why would you wear a hat over that? if thats your point, then dont wear a hat.
if you are playing a race just because of its innate features then why are you so worried about covering them up?
maybe let some other races get hats at all before demanding more.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

well you got a preference and so do i, but if we have to only deal in absolutes then i prefer no ears at all then..
the fantasy race is really not a strong argument, its the same as saying your character has nice hair, why would you wear a hat over that? if thats your point, then dont wear a hat.
if you are playing a race just because of its innate features then why are you so worried about covering them up?
maybe let some other races get hats at all before demanding more.

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I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. What is the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don't get to show off the cat ears? Do you not want Miqote to exist as a playable race or something?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. What is the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don't get to show off the cat ears? Do you not want Miqote to exist as a playable race or something?

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why are you so concerned with covering up the only reason you like the race apparently?
you know they are more than cat ears, i get its a fantasy for young early teen males to fantasize over a cat girls, but you might be surprised to know that the race has actual lore and reasons to play them past being cute dress up girlfriends.. i feel like youre being very vein here...

just because you cant see past your own opinion doesn't mean that only your opinion is correct.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

why are you so concerned with covering up the only reason you like the race apparently?
you know they are more than cat ears, i get its a fantasy for young early teen males to fantasize over a cat girls, but you might be surprised to know that the race has actual lore and reasons to play them past being cute dress up girlfriends.. i feel like youre being very vein here...

just because you cant see past your own opinion doesn't mean that only your opinion is correct.

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Lots of assumptions being made here. You're clearly not actually here to have a productive conversation.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Lots of assumptions being made here. You're clearly not actually here to have a productive conversation.

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and you are? you might as well slam a door and kick a wall on your way out..

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. What is the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don't get to show off the cat ears? Do you not want Miqote to exist as a playable race or something?

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To reinforce this, in a different pov- I love the lore of keepers of the moon, even my miqo has a lore specific name and she's blue/grey -
But I don't like hats that hide her ears or any of her features that I like. I might as well play a hyur by that point if her features are going to be hidden. And moving forward with hats hiding ears; we have hats that have modeled cut outs for miqo'te ears so it's possible. We've seen less and less of racial features outside of hyurs being catered too, (dont even get me started on viera; they were supposed to have original viera made hairs for them but NooOOooo)
But there are many points to playing a race other than cat ears- it doesnt change the fact that it sucks when cosmetics hide unique racial features so I'm with you on that;
I personally don't think they should hide them. And in reference to others, No. I'm not going to use my irl animals to make a comparison bc they're not the ones paying to play an mmo lol

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. What is the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don't get to show off the cat ears? Do you not want Miqote to exist as a playable race or something?

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I think it’s a bit hard to say that the physical features of the race are functionally the only reason to play said race

For example I care more about the tail than the ears but more than both the tail and the ears I care about catboi’s animations and even more than that I care about how him being a catboi fits into the lore I created for him as part of his character (same as choices I made like why every single one of my class glams retains his goggles)

And this doesn’t include people who place a lot of value in the canonical lore of races in the game (of which I don’t because my character wasn’t born in etheryis)

Racial design is just one of many parts of why people play the race they do

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I think it’s a bit hard to say that the physical features of the race are functionally the only reason to play said race

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I never said it was.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

For example I care more about the tail than the ears but more than both the tail and the ears I care about catboi’s animations and even more than that I care about how him being a catboi fits into the lore I created for him

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And I think it would be a shame for any equipment to get in the way of any of those features you like about your character. At least without a toggle to bring those features back.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Racial design is just one of many parts of why people play the race they do

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I'm well aware that people can have varying reasons to play a race or class. What I found odd about his statement was that he would prefer no ears all together. Which straight up sounds like removing racial features entirely which I'm completely against.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I never said it was.


And I think it would be a shame for any equipment to get in the way of any of those features you like about your character. At least without a toggle to bring those features back.


I'm well aware that people can have varying reasons to play a race or class. What I found odd about his statement was that he would prefer no ears all together. Which straight up sounds like removing racial features entirely which I'm completely against.

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You said “what’s the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you can’t show off the cat ears” I replied with the fact that I’m indifferent to the cat ears because that’s not why i play miqote, I’m not saying they shouldn’t be an option but you seem weirdly opposed to the idea that other people don’t care about physical racial features as much as you seem to

I recently fantasia'd for the cosplay but as a Viera I don't really have a hat in this race.
However, I do think a toggle for something like that would solve everyone's problems and the player can deal with it as they see fit.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You said “what’s the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you can’t show off the cat ears” I replied with the fact that I’m indifferent to the cat ears because that’s not why i play miqote, I’m not saying they shouldn’t be an option but you seem weirdly opposed to the idea that other people don’t care about physical racial features as much as you seem to

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I'm opposed to things that take away the physical traits of a race without the option of bringing them back. I find it extremely weird that people find that to be a point I have to defend. If people want to have more character creation options such as having the body that Miqote has without the cat bits or to pick and choose cat bits then that's cool, but that's not what this thread is about. It's about gear deleting racial features because the devs didn't make that feature part of said piece of gear.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I'm opposed to things that take away the physical traits of a race without the option of bringing them back. I find it extremely weird that people find that to be a point I have to defend. If people want to have more character creation options such as having the body that Miqote has without the cat bits or to pick and choose cat bits then that's cool, but that's not what this thread is about. It's about gear deleting racial features because the devs didn't make that feature part of said piece of gear.

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Which is a fair point, but that’s not what you said in your argument, the post I originally quoted you said “what’s the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don’t want to see the cat ears” which is a binary “either you have to support the cat ears or don’t play miqote”, I’m also in support of hide or or view depending on what you want and what the actual item is but binary statements that basically ignore people who play miqote for other reasons besides just the ears and tail is just pointless

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Which is a fair point, but that’s not what you said in your argument, the post I originally quoted you said “what’s the point of playing a fantasy race with cat ears if you don’t want to see the cat ears” which is a binary “either you have to support the cat ears or don’t play miqote”, I’m also in support of hide or or view depending on what you want and what the actual item is but binary statements that basically ignore people who play miqote for other reasons besides just the ears and tail is just pointless

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That line you quoted was in response to someone playing a Hyur saying "I would prefer no ears at all". If you don't care about the cat ears, that's fine, but I'm going to give pushback to statements that imply removing the cat ears from others. The only scenario I would be ok with that is if toggles were added to have or not have those physical traits for gear or to have more options in character create to have or not have those traits.

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“either you have to support the cat ears or don’t play miqote”,

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This is partially along the lines of what I was trying to say. If you don't want those physical traits then why play the race? Baring toggles or unspoken tools, those are part of the character model. Taking them off effectively means you are just playing Hyur. So why not just play Hyur?

Miqo'te ears are absolutely one of the reasons people play the race. It's strange to me that some would think otherwise. Of course, it's not the only one: the two eye types, the tails, the poses and emotes, the lore, etc... It's a bit of everything and it'll vary from player to player.

The main issue is how gear keeps deleting racial traits just because the developers stopped caring about it and sadly it's not only the ears: Endwalker is the first expansion, as far as I know, in which tails are hidden from some gear.

This kind of thing is terrible because it affects specific races and not others and because it limits aesthetic and glamor options. It's on the same level as viera and hrothgar still not having access to most headpieces. Why should these things be so limiting in a game where looks are one of its core aspects?

If players want to hide their tails or ears, then they should give us a toggle, not keep creating pieces that make it as if we didn't have them at all.

I also find it quite fascinating when comments against showing the ears are given by those who do not play the affected races. Why argue against something that doesn't affect you?

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Originally Posted by Aco505

Miqo'te ears are absolutely one of the reasons people play the race. It's strange to me that some would think otherwise.

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And there's nothing wrong with that; It's one of the main reasons I also love my miqo- and it's totally okay if someone's only reason for playing miqo is bc they have cat ears.

Honestly, does it really matter why someone plays this or that? The point is, dev team needs to stop designing gear that hides main features of a race. They should start designing capes to either be split above the tail or half length for tailed races. There are more options to designing capes than just 'long' which involves clipping tails, and we've seen some newer cosmetics that has tail friendly features so it's possible. I feel like they'd get praise for stepping outside of their comfort zone-

and imagine if they started designing gear to compliment Au Ra as well? Rather than just horns poking through everything.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

That line you quoted was in response to someone playing a Hyur saying "I would prefer no ears at all". If you don't care about the cat ears, that's fine, but I'm going to give pushback to statements that imply removing the cat ears from others. The only scenario I would be ok with that is if toggles were added to have or not have those physical traits for gear or to have more options in character create to have or not have those traits.


This is partially along the lines of what I was trying to say. If you don't want those physical traits then why play the race? Baring toggles or unspoken tools, those are part of the character model. Taking them off effectively means you are just playing Hyur. So why not just play Hyur?

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you are ether twisting my words or incapable of critical thinking enough to realize i was talking about hats, you know the entire subject of the thread? do i need to use pictures? take your virtue signal and shove it.

i can love my cat and still want to cover his hears for fashion, you are not the arbiter of the race and quite frankly your opinion on what makes a fan of it are jaded and shallow as your point.

and you know that i only said i prefer no ears on hats after i tried to find middle ground and you shot me down and told me you only want hats with ears present with no compromise. go threw my history if you want, i suggested a toggle before you ever started on about it as a flip flop save face opinion.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

And there's nothing wrong with that; It's one of the main reasons I also love my miqo- and it's totally okay if someone's only reason for playing miqo is bc they have cat ears.

Honestly, does it really matter why someone plays this or that? The point is, dev team needs to stop designing gear that hides main features of a race. They should start designing capes to either be split above the tail or half length for tailed races. There are more options to designing capes than just 'long' which involves clipping tails, and we've seen some newer cosmetics that has tail friendly features so it's possible. I feel like they'd get praise for stepping outside of their comfort zone-

and imagine if they started designing gear to compliment Au Ra as well? Rather than just horns poking through everything.

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Agreed. Each player has their own reason to like the race they play, whether that includes the ears, in the case of miqo'te, or not.

They should definitely experiment more with gear design and at worst add toggles when necessary. I'd be happy having more options such as removing the capes from some chest pieces as optional toggles, or other features such as belts or skirts. Sometimes you want to use a specific chest but cannot because it has extra elements that make it worse for what you want to do.

Hopefully with the graphical update things will be better in DT. We'll see although not sure if I should be hopeful in this regard...

I commented something like this on another thread that was made on this topic but....
Yeah, I wish they'd stop making hoods or hats remove the ears on miqo's, in my opinion it just kind of ruins it because I like their ears and I hate them being chopped off, same with some outfits that hide their tails/clip through their tails. It's the same with au ra and how their horns/tails end up clipping weird but I know this thread isn't about that.

Anyone can play the race for any reason at all and it shouldn't be some huge debate on why people choose to play the race they play, point of this thread is that it's annoying that the features for the race end up getting chopped off and cut out on outfits, and people want to express their frustration with it.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

you are ether twisting my words or incapable of critical thinking enough to realize i was talking about hats, you know the entire subject of the thread? do i need to use pictures? take your virtue signal and shove it.

i can love my cat and still want to cover his hears for fashion, you are not the arbiter of the race and quite frankly your opinion on what makes a fan of it are jaded and shallow as your point.

and you know that i only said i prefer no ears on hats after i tried to find middle ground and you shot me down and told me you only want hats with ears present with no compromise. go threw my history if you want, i suggested a toggle before you ever started on about it as a flip flop save face opinion.

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There you go again trying to make personal attacks rather than having a constructive conversation. I asked you a clarifying question and you decided to make up reasons to insult me. As I already stated, I'm going to give pushback to statements that imply removing racial traits from others.

when you act like a spoiled child you are treated like one..

your argument is the equivalent of saying all black people should only wear Dashikis.

I'm sorry the race only exists to you when its a living stereotype of its self.

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Originally Posted by Aco505

I also find it quite fascinating when comments against showing the ears are given by those who do not play the affected races. Why argue against something that doesn't affect you?

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Originally Posted by Aco505

This is not a problem exclusive to miqo'te, viera or hrothgar however as some headpieces will also hide elezen and lalafell ears due to their size.

With the graphical update coming and eventually affecting all gear pieces, I would ask the developer team to please revise all the head pieces that could be suitable for the addition of ear holes and socks for the aforementioned races and especially miqo'te, viera and hrothgar.

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I don't want ears back for elezen, lalafell or miqo'te personally. My ears are not that long and no, the gear doesn't adjust for ear size.

If you want a toggle that's fine and I'm all for it but no. I don't want them back and I'm perfectly fine with them not coming back.

Bumping for visibility and support!