Increase the amount of items listed on the Market Wards

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

oh for the love of god, if you wanna play WOW, go play it, and stop whine here

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This is the only thing you've ever said on these forums that I've actually agreed with, or been able to comprehend in the slightest.

This, 100%.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

For the love of god can we get relevant thread titles and topics made in the right subcategory?! There is one for Markets and Retainers!

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I know it's off topic but really... people making threads on the forums should learn to put titles that will bring in the reps/devs not the trolls and players going WTH is this and finding out the thread after clicking...

Some of the threads have good discussion and you guys just had to put titles to throw it off... I don't understand why honestly... aren't you guys making threads so the devs/reps sees it and reply to it or you just want to get players attention??

Anyways on topic - don't know about unlimited sale slots maybe 30 per character is enough imo. If items are not selling with 30 slots then you doing something wrong or you need to do more market research imo (not saying to undercut)

I agree with this, there should be a "Select all" button or boxes to check off so if you if you want to sell Multiple Items you can. I agree it does get Frustrating to Click Item> Yes 50-100 times because you want to sell useless Items for gil >.>.

Edit: Read the OP wrong lol but still I agree there should be more than 10 sale slots

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I agree with this, there should be a "Select all" button or boxes to check off so if you if you want to sell Multiple Items you can. I agree it does get Frustrating to Click Item> Yes 50-100 times because you want to sell useless Items for gil >.>.

Edit: Read the OP wrong lol but still I agree there should be more than 10 sale slots

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For your first part I think I read somewhere the plan was to be able to drag from your inventory to sale box like other MMO's to sell multiple items instantly... dunno where I saw that though... I think was in a old old interview...

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I agree with this, there should be a "Select all" button or boxes to check off so if you if you want to sell Multiple Items you can. I agree it does get Frustrating to Click Item> Yes 50-100 times because you want to sell useless Items for gil >.>.

Edit: Read the OP wrong lol but still I agree there should be more than 10 sale slots

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in the past, you sell you paragon crown for this

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Originally Posted by Yucie

This is the only thing you've ever said on these forums that I've actually agreed with, or been able to comprehend in the slightest.

This, 100%.

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Oh my *blush*

A cap is probably necessary, though I agree 10 items per retainer is a little lame.

Maybe if we could do quests to get a shop or something? The shop allowing for an increase in item capacity?
There are vacant stalls (so to speak) in the wards... I can haz stall? @.@

the game try to be realistic, and I love it
To be realistic is to have a limited amount of space in a wards, where retainer could display their limited amount of wares of their shelves
Realistic space management

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I know it's off topic but really... people making threads on the forums should learn to put titles that will bring in the reps/devs not the trolls and players going WTH is this and finding out the thread after clicking...

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What are you talking about Reinheart? The title of my thread is "Increase the amount of items listed on the Market Wards" like it's always been since the very beginning. What could be more straightforward than that?

And also, bad Reinheart! Very bad! Don't say 30!

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Originally Posted by Neptune

What are you talking about Reinheart? The title of my thread is "Increase the amount of items listed on the Market Wards" like it's always been since the very beginning. What could be more straightforward than that?

And also, bad Reinheart! Very bad! Don't say 30!

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How you change thread title!? I thought it was titled "For the Love of God" and I checked it out since it was one my favorite music from Steve Vai... lol 40 then!

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Let's not kid ourselves, 10 slots is due to shitty engineers, nothing else. WoW came out in 2004 and it has effectively unlimited space.

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Wow is also a much bigger game backed by a bigger corporation, which has many more players and can afford to have the much greater amount of server capacity requried for this. You can argue shitty engineers if you want, but unless they fire their shitty engineers and hire new amazing ones to redo all the work the shitty ones did,, the limitations will remain in place.

Personally, I've never encountered a situation where I had to sell more than 30 items at once (10 on each retainer and 10 on your person), so from my point of view, this isn't really even something that needs the dev's attention.

I think the biggest issue is not whether or not it can/should be increased, but, how does this effect the economy. Economics is a fragile thing, and altering something as simple as this can have a massive impact on the economy.

Example: If I can sell only 10 things, I will sell it cheap to free up space. If I can sell 1000 things, I will just list and forget it. Especially if I am in no need for the Gil.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I think the biggest issue is not whether or not it can/should be increased, but, how does this effect the economy. Economics is a fragile thing, and altering something as simple as this can have a massive impact on the economy.

Example: If I can sell only 10 things, I will sell it cheap to free up space. If I can sell 1000 things, I will just list and forget it. Especially if I am in no need for the Gil.

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Prices are the basis of exchange in an economy. If your item isn't at the market price, it won't sell. If it is, it will. It makes no difference what amount of things you can list.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Prices are the basis of exchange in an economy. If your item isn't at the market price, it won't sell. If it is, it will. It makes no difference what amount of things you can list.

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Wow...are you just trying to argue now...seriously the AMOUNT of stuff for sale DOES effect how much they are worth.

Supply vs. Demand is the number 1 driving force behind set prices for any item...in game or the real world. Asiaine is correct, if they allow us all to sell unlimited items, then the wards flood with stuff and prices plummet...if prices plummet, then it throws the balance of our wards off.

Remember the Black pearls?
When a CUL could only synth them via an HQ... they went for like 3mil ea.
Then people found the goblins....beginning of the weekend (before the camp was known) 2mil ea
More people found camp(camp was known) 50k ea
LOTS of people found goblins in multiple zones 5k ea
and happened over less than 2 weeks....cause the market was SUPER flooded.

The game you are using as a model has a fair amount more subs than FFXIV atm. And uses a different player market style all together...both of these factors allow them to have a 'unlimited' market structure. Different game, different conventions, different set-up.

Basically, you want to be able to dump everything on the wards at all times...or easy mode. Sell it and forget it. FFXIV makes you work at sales. And really, as this game makes crafting/gathering a viable playstyle (some people only craft/gather), it SHOULD be this way. People should have to think about how/when and why they are selling what they are selling to make the big profits. It's part of the game.

He wont listen
In his world (under the rock), things not happen like we propose to him

Besides the fact that the servers are unable to handle any loads beyond what they have now(Look what happened to the inn in Ul'dah, moved due to overloading) I do believe that a limit should exist for the reasons stated in here many a times.
People use their retainers for storage as is, with unlimited they would do this more. Limiting also makes it so you have to be more wise about what you sell instead of just throwing it all on there and hoping it sells, you actually have to think about it first. Sure the limit is a little low and could be higher (20 maybe) but that's all you should NEED for selling and could rake in the gil fast if you play the markets right. Just because someone is lazy and just wants a quick place to just dump all their loots to make money does not mean the auction house should provide that.

Havent read all the replies but this should never be implemented for the obvious reason:
Unlimited space for selling items = Unlimited inventory space.

You just have to put up an item for an insane price and there you have it.... I mean ppl are already doing this.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The reason no MMO lets you have unlimited items on their market system is the same reason you won't be able to in 2.0: Memory and Resources.

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Wow has a massive massive cap on items for sale, I only ever once hit the cap and that was because I acidentally sold my stack of items 1 at a time via an addon, but it was like 200 seperate items, of course each item can only be posted for a maximum of 48 hours before it is removed from sale (FF11 does something similar)

There is no reason to have such strict archaic limitations for an online game in 2012/13.

On a side note I am hoping that all dated items and recipe parts will be removed from the game as that stuff just clutters the search UI.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Make it 1 item, for "teh lulz". XD

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And make every item ID Cheesecake so when you search all there is .. is cheesecake.

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Just tell them to scrap the crappy market wards during the beta phase and build us an AH. Everyone will be happier in the end.

More item slots to sell won't help anything. What is need is the ability to scroll and view all items of that type for sale, or a separate page for +1 gear and melded gear. There is a lot of stuff I want to put up for sale but don't because it won't be visible with all the nq gear.

On a side note, as well as selling, i hope the buying interface will be improved

Specifically for armour, at the moment:
a) browsing item search only lists 10 items in the widget box and you have to scroll down to view more,
b) you only see the stats for the item you are browsing over,
c) items are sorted illogically (why not sortable by level or job or stat?)
d) you can keep scrolling forever and ever and always see Felt Hat (colour) (of the ....) variations

Instead of that why not, for example,
- let us view a long list of items as long as the screen on the left side
- have the base item e.g. felt hat, in the main list, when you scroll over that all the possible variations pop up on the right side with all their relevant stats so you can see everything at a glance
- etc

I hope the new UI includes a new system *cough* AH *cough*

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Originally Posted by ShinTofu

More item slots to sell won't help anything. What is need is the ability to scroll and view all items of that type for sale, or a separate page for +1 gear and melded gear. There is a lot of stuff I want to put up for sale but don't because it won't be visible with all the nq gear.

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Agreed, the limitation of the search feature is the biggest issue right now.

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Originally Posted by ShinTofu

More item slots to sell won't help anything. What is need is the ability to scroll and view all items of that type for sale, or a separate page for +1 gear and melded gear. There is a lot of stuff I want to put up for sale but don't because it won't be visible with all the nq gear.

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As well as allow people who sell gear to stack it to 5-10 on one item slot so they aren't stuck selling 1 of the same item in all 10 slots. There are a lot of pieces of gear in the game but the diversity of what is sold is limited because people are only willing to sell high priced gear, the lower priced gear gets looked over because it isn't worth it to sell 10 pieces of 10k gear when you could just as easily sell Rosewood branches +1 which stack to 99 for 20k each.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Just tell them to scrap the crappy market wards during the beta phase and build us an AH. Everyone will be happier in the end.

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We already got an AH. It's called the market wards.

Seriously building "an AH" by itself won't change anything. An auction house could be great or it could be awful. Just as the market wards in 2.0 could be great or they could be awful. No matter how you call it, it all depends on the implementation.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Can we see more then 20 items on the wards at least? Makes it hard to buy HQ materials or triple meld+ items.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Pfhwahaha what? They're keeping the market wards?

Please at least tell us it'll be in addition to a good AH system.

Please reconsider this. The current amount is so low and it becomes difficult to diversify your market.

In respect to AH's and Market Wards and how they compare.

There was no limitation to the amount of people who could sell on the AH but now we have a limitation to the amount of retainers in a Market Ward and for the most part if your retainer isn't in Uldah's Market Wards now it wont be unless you catch someone moving it and you got lucky.

Sure we could go put our retainer up in another Nation and if that is the case it MAY be looked at by those deal finders, but you shouldn't have to sell your items for less because they take longer to be seen or must be looked for and half the time the items in the Wards in other Nations are more expensive.

I understand the idea behind creating Market Wards... However, the Market Wards and Retainer system are a pain at the moment and they have left a bitter taste in the mouth of many currently active players including myself. I spent 30 minutes trying to find a location for my retainer in the wards. I finally found one in the Tanner's Wards... please note I am not selling anything that has to do with skin, leather or animals in general, yet because of the limitations of the Wards I must sell there. The result is penalization.

I am not saying replace with an AH but if they are going to keep this system some of the improvements I would like to see would be:
1. Organization of Retainers in each ward. It's terrible to go in and sometimes your retainer is covered by other NPC's and you can't target it.
2. A symbol if someone is actually selling an item in the right ward. I believe those people should be rewarded for good intentions (or luck).
3. To always pop out by your retainer if you head to the ward they are in. No reason to pop out anywhere else if your buying from the Mercantile.
4. Less Lag.
5. More items on list.
6. Direct Exchange Items to Retainer Bazaar instead of Exchange Items and then View and Manage Bazaar Contents
7. Remove the amount of retainers in each ward or have a set tax for buying and selling and not a benefit and penalty because of a system that cannot accommodate the current active player base.

In regards to those of you who are interested in selling your +1's I wouldn't worry too much if people are searching for the item and type in +1 they will find it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

2.0 [...] Market Ward

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Uhh, this is making me sort of nervous. Can we get some concrete details about how the buying/selling system will differ in 2.0 from the current market wards? Because if we still have to muck around with trading items to our retainers before we can sell them and finding a ward with an open space, that's going to be a huge dealbreaker for many players. This is 2012.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

We already got an AH. It's called the market wards.

Seriously building "an AH" by itself won't change anything. An auction house could be great or it could be awful. Just as the market wards in 2.0 could be great or they could be awful. No matter how you call it, it all depends on the implementation.

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No we don't have an AH, we have a system that has evolved into the state of almost being an AH but still lacking in every possible area. It is in no way or shape better than an AH. Scrap the craptastic system in favor of what people want. Yes, building an AH would change everything, because it would function as intended instead of being worthless. I have never played an MMO with an AH of sorts that wasn't great.

Hell if they want to keep the wards around and have an AH too I would be for that.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

We already got an AH. It's called the market wards.

Seriously building "an AH" by itself won't change anything. An auction house could be great or it could be awful. Just as the market wards in 2.0 could be great or they could be awful. No matter how you call it, it all depends on the implementation.

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Yeah, but you're wrong. We have a terrible system that from the bottom of its soul wishes it was an auction house system, but is instead its twin brother who got his umbilical cord wrapped around his throat in his mother's womb, and was born with 5% of normal brain capacity. Even though it now has a search feature attached, this search feature is obnoxiously convoluted and doesn't allow for any sort of efficient gear comparations, filtering, or even the ability to show every sort of available gear for certain items.

No, even if you added to this game one of the worst AH systems of currently running commercial MMOs, it would be a better solution that what we have now. It would not "depend on the implementation" unless it was coded by a blind, braindead chimpanzee with no fingers.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Thanks Camate for looking into this and posting some feedback. As you can imagine, I'm not relieved to hear this news and in fact I'm more worried than I was before! I noticed you checked with the UI team.. that's great that we now know something about version 2.0 that we didn't know before. This thread is about changing the current plans for version 2.0. So please check with Naoki Yoshida about this thread, since this is a Design issue and not a UI issue. Thank you Camate!

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Just tell them to scrap the crappy market wards during the beta phase and build us an AH. Everyone will be happier in the end.

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We already have an auction house built, it's called the market wards. Other than the fact that you have to stick crap on retainers and there is limited capacity for those retainers, it has all the functionality of an auction house. You can search for items by name and buy directly from a UI just like any auction house in any game. Once the changes Camate described are implemented, selling stuff should have the same level of simplicity

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So please check with Naoki Yoshida about this thread, since this is a Design issue and not a UI issue. Thank you Camate!

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UI and design go hand in hand. Any "AH" or "trade" system works through a UI. You change the UI, you're changing the way said thing functions. You should be ecstatic, not worried. And unless you have a degree in computer science or game development, who are you to say what kind of issue any given issue is?

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Yeah, but you're wrong.

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He's not wrong. For the buyer, the market wards pretty much funciton exactly like an auction house. The problems that remain are associated with the sellers- These are the problems that are being addressed by what Camate posted.

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It is in no way or shape better than an AH.

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So, now we don't just want an AH, we want something that's "better than an AH?" What might that be, if you don't mind me asking?

We have an AH, it's called the market wards, once the bugs are fixed you'll barely even notice it's not 100% exactly the same as <insert game here>'s auction house.

Right now I only have 2 beefs with the system:

1) Retainer UI is still sluggish as all hell, this problem is to be addressed in 2.0
2) Limited capacity of market wards can prevent the player from being able to sell anything at all. Using the other city's wards doesn't solve this problem because you still need to check each city's ward seperately. (I expect this is going to be addressed based on the post, but if it's not then it needs to be)

No, they do not function like a competent auction house. They function as a retarded auction house lookalike.

If I put a car chassis over a bicycle, and attach a lawn mower motor to it, that's still not a car.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

We already have an auction house built, it's called the market wards. Other than the fact that you have to stick crap on retainers and there is limited capacity for those retainers, it has all the functionality of an auction house. You can search for items by name and buy directly from a UI just like any auction house in any game. Once the changes Camate described are implemented, selling stuff should have the same level of simplicity

UI and design go hand in hand. Any "AH" or "trade" system works through a UI. You change the UI, you're changing the way said thing functions. You should be ecstatic, not worried. And unless you have a degree in computer science or game development, who are you to say what kind of issue any given issue is?

He's not wrong. For the buyer, the market wards pretty much funciton exactly like an auction house. The problems that remain are associated with the sellers- These are the problems that are being addressed by what Camate posted.

So, now we don't just want an AH, we want something that's "better than an AH?" What might that be, if you don't mind me asking?

We have an AH, it's called the market wards, once the bugs are fixed you'll barely even notice it's not 100% exactly the same as <insert game here>'s auction house.

Right now I only have 2 beefs with the system:

1) Retainer UI is still sluggish as all hell, this problem is to be addressed in 2.0
2) Limited capacity of market wards can prevent the player from being able to sell anything at all. Using the other city's wards doesn't solve this problem because you still need to check each city's ward separately. (I expect this is going to be addressed based on the post, but if it's not then it needs to be)

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Wards suck man, they don't function like a proper AH. They work exactly like how Mirage said they do. In essence it is similar to an AH but only a small % as effective as an AH. The point is we want something simple and easy to use and not have to go out of our way to put our retainers in another cities wards because their isn't enough room in the main cities wards to do so. We want to go up to the AH window and click on it, list our item and bam done. Not go to wards, select a ward, load screen, attempt to call retainer, failed because it is full, goto another ward 100 times, still not find one then goto another city or w/e to attempt to drop our retainers off in an area where majority of the people don't even bother to look at to begin with. I never see people looking at the wards in the mercantile houses for LL or Grid, only Uldah.

By the way I did say "we" a lot and "we" includes you wanting a better system even though you don't want to admit to it. It will only make the game more enjoyable and presentable to new players who expect an AH not a miserable excuse for one.

More enjoyable? How? I think everyone likes checking their retainers/delivery boxes after listing their items at night to see that million gil reward waiting for you to collect for the wares you sold.

Yeah. I do see people in the LL and Grid mercantile houses, though, but they certianly see a significantly less amount of traffic than the Uldahn wards.

An efficient way to buy and sell goods is important to keep the economy in good shape, and supply crafters and combatants alike with the items they need for the fairest price possible. If you have a cap selling slots that is easy to reach, people will start selling only the items that give you the highest profit margin. If someone with multiple lv50 jobs have 10 slots to sell stuff with, and 20 items in their inventory that they want to sell, they are very likely to sell the most profitable items at the open market, then NPC the rest of their stuff.

This leads to 10 less items a level 10-20 crafter can buy and level their craft with, or 10 less low-level equipment pieces that a lv20 archer can choose between. This skews the cost for low level gear because anyone who wants to sell low-level gear wants to have a profit margin that is closer to what they could get for level 40+ items, or they'll just NPC it instead.

If I could check a low level item's price history while selling, and have an option in the client to automatically list it for the median price (or some other fancy method of auto-pricing) of the last 10 sales, and if the total time for putting up 30 items for sale was roughly the same as it would be for NPCIng them, I would put these items up for sale instead of NPCing them. That would increase supply for people who needs these items. This would probably also increase the supply for all items that were made with the items i sold as well.

When selling items, you should probably pay AH fees based on how long you want to keep the item up for auction. Items shouldn't be listable forever, because then you'll end up with people using it as storage, or overcharging things by much more than they normally would. How big would the fees be? I'm no financial genius. I'm sure someone else is more suited to crunching out the exact the numbers for that.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

After checking with the version 2.0 UI team, they mentioned that there are no plans to increase the amount of items that players can list on the Market Ward; however, their focus for the new UI is to make it much easier and less stressful to sell items. This will primarily be accomplished via the drag and drop feature and option settings that disable confirmation widgets. After seeing a demonstration of the selling process I can tell you that it looked very smooth compared to the current system.

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Although your post was meant to reassure us it kind of had the opposite effect.

It sounds like the dev team are being very stubborn on keeping the marketwards system, even though so many people have shown a dislike for it.

I hope its as good as you make it sound though, otherwise there is going to be a lot of negative feeback in alpha/beta.

I am very curious how they plan to solve this issue of over crowding in the marketwards.

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Originally Posted by ShinTofu

More item slots to sell won't help anything. What is need is the ability to scroll and view all items of that type for sale, or a separate page for +1 gear and melded gear. There is a lot of stuff I want to put up for sale but don't because it won't be visible with all the nq gear.

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QTF ^ /10char

Why can't they increase it?

I have gil to spend and can't even see the double-melded items in the wards! All the popular items being sold cover up the double-melded ones.

And before you pricks say anything, NO I am not going to personally search every single ward.