Krile, Thancred, Urianger are relatable, while Y'shtola, G'raha, Alphinaud aren't

Y'shtola has been an annoying Mary Sue since the beginning but you used to get eviscerated and then roasted over an open flame for saying so until this expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

Y'shtola has been an annoying Mary Sue since the beginning

---

https://i.imgur.com/Putr7cS.png

Graha is my least favorite. He was a good character in SHB but in EW, they changed how the character acts and it sucks. The only thing he did in EW that was reminiscent to his SHB self (SPOILER) is when he learns and saves everyone with the levitate spell.
Otherwise, he's essentially a child now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FenyxRising

So ? It's normal for babies to cry too, but they are still annoying and unrelatable, it's that simple. Just because it is logical for him to behave that way, doesn't mean I have to like him.

---

Uhm ... defensive much? Did I say you have to like him?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

Y'shtola has been an annoying Mary Sue since the beginning but you used to get eviscerated and then roasted over an open flame for saying so until this expansion.

---

It's actually our WOL who is the mary sue lol

I liked Y'shtola up until that scene in Rak'tikka. Exploiting forbidden magic just to escape Ran'jit? Really?

Then again, the idea that Ran'jit justified using Flow doesn't sit right with me, either. He never really felt like he earned the level of threat he was treated as. Probably my least favorite part of Shadowbringers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

It's actually our WOL who is the mary sue lol

---

You're the main character of the video game, of course you're gonna be a mary sue. But the PLAYER WoL isn't required for the story, you're more just an observer. There are multiple other WoLs out there -- if anything, you're less special because of that fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

https://i.imgur.com/Putr7cS.png

---

bro she almost-dies like 500 times but gets revived, nobody in-game truly dislikes her and her "oopsie-daisy i made a f*cksywhuspy"'s involves her falling up rather than down. urianger, thancred, the twins and tataru all show flaws at various points but her biggest flaw is a thirst for knowledge which could've been played up during the end of EW but when she got asked by the aliens if she'd keep going after said knowledge it ended up being yet another "falling up" moment where everything turned out OK in the end anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

You're the main character of the video game, of course you're gonna be a mary sue. But the PLAYER WoL isn't required for the story, you're more just an observer. There are multiple other WoLs out there -- if anything, you're less special because of that fact.



bro she almost-dies like 500 times but gets revived, nobody in-game truly dislikes her and her "oopsie-daisy i made a f*cksywhuspy"'s involve her falling up rather than down. urianger, thancred, the twins and tataru all show flaws at various points but her biggest flaw is a thirst for knowledge which could've been played up during the end of EW but when she got asked by the aliens if she'd keep going after said knowledge it ended up being yet another "falling up" moment where everything turned out OK in the end anyway.

---

That's not how the story works. Our WoL is the WoL. The Chosen one, blah blah. Storywise we summon help of the other people who help us by the end of the game from our shard. Our character is always front and center and pivotal to anything happening around us. The WoL is required for the story. They are often the sole impetus of the story moving along at all.

Being the MC doesn't mean we have to be written as the WoL is - uniquely great and amazing at pretty much everything they put their mind to with in a lot of situations, little effort. It's especially bad in job quests where we pretty much always surprass our masters who spent lifetimes in training in a relatively brief period of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

That's not how the story works. Our WoL is the WoL. Storywise we summon help of the other people who help us by the end of the game from our shard. Our character is always front and center and pivotal to anything happening around us. The WoL is required for the story. They are often the sole impetus of the story moving along at all.

Being the MC doesn't mean we have to be written as the WoL is - uniquely great and amazing at pretty much everything they put their mind to with in a lot of situations, little effort. It's especially bad in job quests where we pretty much always surprass our masters who spent lifetimes in training in a relatively brief period of time.

---

but if your WoL wasn't there, it wouldn't matter because another WoL would just take their place. you're a placeholder for mr. generic man shown in the intros/commercials/trailers. none of your options matter, none of your decisions matter. the DRK quest literally pokes fun of this fact.
you could argue "but azem" but that's just plot convenience to explain the duty finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

but if your WoL wasn't there, it wouldn't matter because another WoL would just take their place. you're a placeholder for mr. generic man shown in the intros/commercials/trailers. none of your options matter, none of your decisions matter. the DRK quest literally pokes fun of this fact.
you could argue "but azem" but that's just plot convenience to explain the duty finder.

---

Narratively, if us as the WoL fell, the time frame means it's unlikely another could step in for your place. The missions would fail at any point your WoL perished. A lot of what happens is time-sensitive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Narratively, if us as the WoL fell, the time frame means it's unlikely another could step in for your place. The missions would fail at any point your WoL perished. A lot of what happens is time-sensitive.

---

i don't think so and you're also misunderstanding what i mean. i don't mean if the current (player) wol was currently removed. my point is that being a wol is arbitrary and we're a dime a dozen canonically; especially now that there's 10 trillion of them on the first. you're a placeholder and any success is simply to allow the player to experience content rather than contribute meaningfully to the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

i don't think so and you're also misunderstanding what i mean. i don't mean if the current (player) wol was currently removed. my point is that being a wol is arbitrary and we're a dime a dozen canonically; especially now that there's 10 trillion of them on the first. you're a placeholder and any success is simply to allow the player to experience content rather than contribute meaningfully to the story.

---

But there aren't 10 trillion of them on the first. I don't know how you are getting that impression.

EDIT: Are you talking about this? (WARNING: Potential ShB Spoilers, don't know how to mark it)

On the First, Elidibus revealed the true nature of the Echo to the Warrior of Light and their companions. The Echo awakened in those who witnessed a Calamity that bore a likeness to their innate ancient memories of the Final Days many millennia ago. After creating a star shower in the sky above Crystarium, the Echo was awakened in a small number of individuals in the crowd below. Using the form of Ardbert he convinced the now awakened crowd members to become Warriors of Light themselves.

--

If so, it's a small number, and we may be talking about different things - between the Chosen WoL and people with the Echo. My impression was that the Echo itself was uncommon/rare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But there aren't 10 trillion of them on the first. I don't know how you are getting that impression.

EDIT: Are you talking about this? (WARNING: Potential ShB Spoilers, don't know how to mark it)

On the First, Elidibus revealed the true nature of the Echo to the Warrior of Light and their companions. The Echo awakened in those who witnessed a Calamity that bore a likeness to their innate ancient memories of the Final Days many millennia ago. After creating a star shower in the sky above Crystarium, the Echo was awakened in a small number of individuals in the crowd below. Using the form of Ardbert he convinced the now awakened crowd members to become Warriors of Light themselves.

--

If so, it's a small number, and we may be talking about different things - between the Chosen WoL and people with the Echo. My impression was that the Echo itself was uncommon/rare.

---

we meet multiple people in the source who have the echo as well. "10 trillion" is an exaggeration but it isn't exactly unheard of for there to be way more than a small handful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

we meet multiple people in the source who have the echo as well. "10 trillion" is an exaggeration but it isn't exactly unheard of for there to be way more than a small handful.

---

Seems people disagree if everyone with the Echo is a Warrior of light. They seem to distinguish the blessing of light/chosens with having the Echo in general.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._the_blessing/ Here was a thread about this but it seems inconclusive. Not sure if any of the better lore hounds could explain.

Looks like these forums had some discussion in 2023: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...t-and-the-Echo

Here's to hoping DT will give us more character dynamics within the scion group.