Please rework living dead again.

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Originally Posted by SerophisRagnarok

their 1,2,3 has self healing, abyssal drain has self healing, living dead is nothing but self healing. there ya go.

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No, the "3" is the self healing, 1 is nothing, 2 is mp. Abyssal Drain is AOE only since Endwalker. And we're talking about Living Dead in the first place, don't be so disingenuous.

I wonder if the solution is to merge Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain and give them the Spirits Within/Expiacion treatment:

Abyssal Strike/Minus Strike: Delivers an attack to target and all nearby enemies with a potency of X for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores own HP. HP restored increases as current HP decreases.
Additional Effect: Restores MP.

Since you naturally hit 1 HP with Living Dead, you'd have a bit of added security when these happen to align. It also makes for more interesting lifesteal.

I'd also be interested in seeing the effect of moving the lifesteal off of Souleater and on to the blood moves, Bloodspiller and Quietus instead. I know this makes the initial levelling process more challenging, as well as impacting solo PoTD, but I think the long term payoff might feel better, depending on tuning. It just gives the player more manual control over timing rather than feeling like a passive regen effect, which is a problem with a lot of the lifesteal effects currently in play.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wonder if the solution is to merge Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain and give them the Spirits Within/Expiacion treatment:

Abyssal Strike/Minus Strike: Delivers an attack to target and all nearby enemies with a potency of X for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores own HP. HP restored increases as current HP decreases.
Additional Effect: Restores MP.

Since you naturally hit 1 HP with Living Dead, you'd have a bit of added security when these happen to align. It also makes for more interesting lifesteal.

I'd also be interested in seeing the effect of moving the lifesteal off of Souleater and on to the blood moves, Bloodspiller and Quietus instead. I know this makes the initial levelling process more challenging, as well as impacting solo PoTD, but I think the long term payoff might feel better, depending on tuning. It just gives the player more manual control over timing rather than feeling like a passive regen effect, which is a problem with a lot of the lifesteal effects currently in play.

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I can get behind that model merging Abyssal Drain and C&S IF we don't just make it another ogcd we just press on cooldown. I would like to be able to use it on demand, especially in the case of living dead. I'd opt into making it a GCD that costs Blood Gauge if we want to move lifesteal into the Blood Gauge anyway. If not that, then MP. I would like complete agency of when to use it

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Originally Posted by Rangga

So.. how you actually use living dead?
Or we just use this in end game content only?

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You use it in two scenarios:

- in place of standard mitigation and shielding to use it against a lethal hit or more and then recover all your HP without the need of a healer (if you have a target), ideally where you can get good value out of it
- in trashpulls as essentially a Benediction. Note that you should probably communicate with your Dungeon healer when it is safe to let you drop to 1HP (Living Dead available) so they can focus on damage in the meantime.

I think LD is fine but it does feel like it goes through a lot of steps just be a reasonable invuln
>living dead
>walking dead
>undead rebirth

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I think LD is fine but it does feel like it goes through a lot of steps just be a reasonable invuln
>living dead
>walking dead
>undead rebirth

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Reduce the steps and what you get is Holmgang.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You use it in two scenarios:

- in place of standard mitigation and shielding to use it against a lethal hit or more and then recover all your HP without the need of a healer (if you have a target), ideally where you can get good value out of it
- in trashpulls as essentially a Benediction. Note that you should probably communicate with your Dungeon healer when it is safe to let you drop to 1HP (Living Dead available) so they can focus on damage in the meantime.

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Its more practical not to use it at all then. We can just rotate damage mitigation such as rampart and shadow wall (supported with the blackest night, reprisal and others), we will never be in dangerous situation.

Hallowed Ground from Paladin have better use since it give clear sign to the healer.

I play in PS5 so I cant communicate well with random party member.

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Originally Posted by Rangga

Its more practical not to use it at all then. We can just rotate damage mitigation such as rampart and shadow wall (supported with the blackest night, reprisal and others), we will never be in dangerous situation.

Hallowed Ground from Paladin have better use since it give clear sign to the healer.

I play in PS5 so I cant communicate well with random party member.

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Why can't you communicate on a PS5? Can't you hook up a keyboard?

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Originally Posted by Rangga

Its more practical not to use it at all then. We can just rotate damage mitigation such as rampart and shadow wall (supported with the blackest night, reprisal and others), we will never be in dangerous situation.

Hallowed Ground from Paladin have better use since it give clear sign to the healer.

I play in PS5 so I cant communicate well with random party member.

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Write macros with chat prompts and use them from your hotbar to indicate that you want to use Living Dead and that they should let you drop to 1HP.

While yes you can absolutely create chat macros for Living Dead usage, you're also not really wrong. In pretty much all dungeons, normal raids and alliance raids you do not really ever need to use Living Dead.

Since every dungeon nowadays is just 2 trash packs and then a boss you can simply cycle through your normal mitigation cooldowns while pulling wall-to-wall and be completely fine.
Normal and alliance raids on the other hand have so few tank busters and so little incoming damage in general that you're probably sitting on an abundance of cooldowns anyway.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

While yes you can absolutely create chat macros for Living Dead usage, you're also not really wrong. In pretty much all dungeons, normal raids and alliance raids you do not really ever need to use Living Dead.

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There's one reason to use invulns in certain raids and it's only to ignore things like Halone's proximity blast that can do significant damage to you, in order to deal more damage but other than super dumb optimization strats which don't really matter since there's no enrage and it's just to look cool...pretty much this entirely.

Also as much as there's all the ideas for macros or communication involving Living Dead, it truly is just the invuln with more steps involved. Makes it unique but shoot, the other ones don't really need that and they do much more than fine. Although if they reworked it to not have the zombie-state, there'd probably be cries that it's making DRK like other tanks. /shrug

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Originally Posted by MikoRemi

Also as much as there's all the ideas for macros or communication involving Living Dead, it truly is just the invuln with more steps involved. Makes it unique but shoot, the other ones don't really need that and they do much more than fine. Although if they reworked it to not have the zombie-state, there'd probably be cries that it's making DRK like other tanks. /shrug

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..Keeping it unique is kinda the point, yes. The devs themselves didn't even want to adjust living dead to begin with because of that. Right now every tank's invuln is unique in functionality.

And yes, you would hear people complain about it because it absolutely would make it more like the other tanks. Remove the death-state and you have holmgang but on a longer cooldown (or cracked holmgang if it keeps the sustain), make us invulnerable upon dying and we have rebranded Superbolide.

We've already been stripped down into a borderline Warrior clone outside of the amount of ogcd's we have and our defensive toolkit, we don't need to lose what uniqueness we have left.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

snip

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I mean it could be more than just a Holmgang really. The invuln is good but instead of just killing you if you or the healers don't top you off, instead it can keep the idea of embracing death in order to gain the will to live, clawing back HP rapidly without having to just simply die if you don't get it back. Holmgang alone can't heal a Warrior, Paladin doesn't need to worry about any of that jazz, and Superbolide for Gunbreaker is a true last resort where you won't take damage but it isn't without a price.

While were at it, Delirium doesn't have to be Inner Release 0.5, it'd be cool to see it be a blood gauge builder or even just get Blood Price back with restoring 50% of damage taken each hit for a time, not negating damage entirely but while being mobbed the DRK would die noticeably slower, can even throw in some MP if you wanna make it nutty but just that alone would still keep it unique but also quite a bit stronger. Dark Mind can also just have 10% phys mit or god forbid it can actually get a normal 20% flat.

This is a Living Dead specific thread and all but I'll just leave that there anyway. I'm at least happy that it's not the old Living Dead, but if they had to do it over once more it wouldn't be too much more different than how it is now. If DRK wants to continue being the quirky tank though then I mean, all the power to them.