Square Enix, it's time to come clean about your plans for the future

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

I mean they are still hiring for the mmo development team in UI, game designer and monster design they are always hiring it’s just they have a weird boner for quality standards rather then training people less qualified



Well the team split after heavensward but it went into full production around stormblood finishing so post stormblood onwards would of been impacted which it wasn’t and Covid would of impacted stuff it affected everything so I think it isn’t copium to say Covid was the main reason for the shadowbringers issue.

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Post stormblood was already almost finished by the time vase sb is out. That’s how they do things which Yoshi P has stated they work on the new expansion in advance. As for Shadowbringers i literally just gave you multiple evidence that content was already missing before Covid was even a thing…

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

If they are working in something else, they will tell it when they are ready to it. Also, working on FFXVI and FFXIV at the same time while still maintain FFXI is already a lot of work.

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They hardly even maintain ff11 its considered the stepchild to its younger brother ff14 and not even getting updates going further except occasional server maintenance which is covered by ff14s server engineers. There not putting in massive work to maintain ff11 its going to be on life support from now until there contract ends in 10 years for the maintenance for ff11 new server hardware.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They hardly even maintain ff11 its considered the stepchild to its younger brother ff14 and not even getting updates going further except occasional server maintenance which is covered by ff14s server engineers.

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Also vastly different teams between FFXI and FFXIV so I don't understand why people act as if one team is single-handedly doing everything.

Another also, it's extremely sad and funny how some people are acting as if FFXIV is just done or under maintenance when the latest expansion has been announced and we have news for 6.5, with Yoshida already having ideas for more expansions down the road.

Do people just enjoy being dramatic here?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_Patrol

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https://www.mmorpg.com/news/square-e...les-2000128641

The game is no longer growing and more then likely we will see a shrink or just less going forward.

We won't see another end Walker busy release unless blizz messes up but they are doing very well with dragon flight

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Also vastly different teams between FFXI and FFXIV so I don't understand why people act as if one team is single-handedly doing everything.

Another also, it's extremely sad and funny how some people are acting as if FFXIV is just done or under maintenance when the latest expansion has been announced and we have news for 6.5, with Yoshida already having ideas for more expansions down the road.

Do people just enjoy being dramatic here?

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Im pointing out that ff14 is the companies main priority now and the ff11 dev team is going onto other projects so how am i being dramatic about it. Your the one that goes into threads and come off as combative. I wasnt being dramatic when pointing out that ff14 is the main priority and money maker now and telling someone that ff11 isnt getting massive resources put into it anymore. In no way was i being doom and gloom or a troll or whatever else.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Also vastly different teams between FFXI and FFXIV so I don't understand why people act as if one team is single-handedly doing everything.

Another also, it's extremely sad and funny how some people are acting as if FFXIV is just done or under maintenance when the latest expansion has been announced and we have news for 6.5, with Yoshida already having ideas for more expansions down the road.

Do people just enjoy being dramatic here?

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There's people being "doom and gloom" then there's people like you who believe literally everything they are told from a company, then there's a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

There's people being "doom and gloom" then there's people like you who believe literally everything they are told, then there's a middle ground.

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They seem to think I'm some massive ff11 fanboy who hates ff14. It's like it's hard for them to believe people can enjoy more then one game or when they bring up another game for ff14 to look at for features to bring to this game suddenly there like "your nothing but doom and gloom and a troll". Especially when people bring up qol or other features that would be good additions to ff14.

I feel like FFXIV has a lot of good stuff in it and about it, just that the central game of battle, dungeons and bosses that I originally joined to play hasn't received the same attention as many social aspects I couldn't care less about.

It'd be one thing if the battle content were in a good way, but or doesn't feel like it to me. The most objective way I can relate this information is to just point at all of the various aspects of battle design that players simply don't have control over or encounter anymore. Folks will debate if that's a good or bad thing, but as someone that mostly does the battle stuff and not much else, variety within the system is king.

Like, just comparing PvE to PvP, it feels really fresh to change jobs in PvP and learn the ins and outs, but in PvE I can play one tank and know them all, one healer and know them all, most of the DPS are now more rigidly tied to the 2 min meta, and bosses all have to introduce every attack individually (sometimes even multiple times) before even conceiving of combining or throwing a curveball.

If the encounters and jobs were as deliberately as varied to actually play as they have been in the past, I probably wouldn't be here complaining, but it seems like everything's done in the name of balance and not fun. And balance for what, gear that's replaced in two patches? It's not worth it, because the gear doesn't matter in the end. It's the encounters and jobs that persist.

can you imagine if the first dev post in nearly a decade were here, in this thread, with them telling us on the english forums that the game was basically in maintenance-lite mode while they develop ff17?
lol
lmao
I mean don't get me wrong I'd love transparency too, but you and I both know we're more likely to glean it from a badly translated Japanese interview or something instead. They don't talk about shit here.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

The same will happen to 14. The only question is when. I think this ten-year period is going to be used for CBU3 to make FF17 using funds from FF14...

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Congratulations!

You've just discovered the deep dark secret of gaming companies that, well, want to remain gaming companies over the long haul. "Reinvest funds from earlier games towards new games". It's amazing how companies do that, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by TheNight

How is this a conspiracy? Back in SB people already guessed that CBU3 was working on a single player FF game because Yoshi P said he would like to make one.

Yoshi P has said he would like to work on a new generation MMO and that FF14 is the last MMO in the "second generation"... Yeah the hints are pretty clear.

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Honestly, after XVI I don't want them to make another FF.
Might as well make a movie at this point, oh wait.

That being said, it does not make sense to start making a new MMO if the old one is supposed to be running for the next 10 years.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/square-e...les-2000128641
...
We won't see another end Walker busy release unless blizz messes up but they are doing very well with dragon flight

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Notably, the company’s MMO segment saw a 22% drop in revenue year over year.

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Uh...I don't think this is the argument you think it is.

"Hot MMO 18 months after an expansion has fewer subs than same MMO did 6 months after an expansion!"

...and? That's literally how every expansion works in every MMO ever. Other than Burning Crusade, WoW had the same thing happen. Even at its height of 13 million players in Wrath, the end of Wrath had fewer than the start. And that was the MMO that had uncontested control of the market. All games work this way that have live service. New releases spike numbers which then drift down until the next major release spike.

You have to compare the same point in different expansions, and the game seems to be higher up than it was this same point in ShB and this same point in SB. That suggests the game is, in fact, still growing and not "a shrink or just less".

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Oh, I'm sorry. My apologies for having the sun shine on your rainy parade.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

They hardly even maintain ff11 its considered the stepchild to its younger brother ff14 and not even getting updates going further except occasional server maintenance which is covered by ff14s server engineers. There not putting in massive work to maintain ff11 its going to be on life support from now until there contract ends in 10 years for the maintenance for ff11 new server hardware.

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Mean ffxi is almost 25 years old they game has ran it course sadly and been on maintenance mode for a good while. When they announced some new content for their 20th anniversary it was nice and unexpected but it’s normal for the game only simply getting only tweaks and minor updates at this point. The thing about ffxi is the numbers have remained steady over years.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Uh...I don't think this is the argument you think it is.

"Hot MMO 18 months after an expansion has fewer subs than same MMO did 6 months after an expansion!"

...and? That's literally how every expansion works in every MMO ever. Other than Burning Crusade, WoW had the same thing happen. Even at its height of 13 million players in Wrath, the end of Wrath had fewer than the start. And that was the MMO that had uncontested control of the market. All games work this way that have live service. New releases spike numbers which then drift down until the next major release spike.

You have to compare the same point in different expansions, and the game seems to be higher up than it was this same point in ShB and this same point in SB. That suggests the game is, in fact, still growing and not "a shrink or just less".

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Oh, I'm sorry. My apologies for having the sun shine on your rainy parade.

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Revenue is down by quite a margin, this is how you measure.

They are still projecting it to go down further.

Now the relevance to the thread is why the sharp decline as it is sharp.

No content in this expansion to keep people engaged, as such people are done fast and stopped playing.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Mean ffxi is almost 25 years old they game has ran it course sadly and been on maintenance mode for a good while. When they announced some new content for their 20th anniversary it was nice and unexpected but it’s normal for the game only simply getting only tweaks and minor updates at this point. The thing about ffxi is the numbers have remained steady over years.

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Yeah i wish they put more resources into ff11 but i also know at this point it wouldn't make financial/business sense and I'm mostly still enjoying ff11 and all the content it has that i can still do. I'm glad that they still managed to pump out one last storyline and some content the last couple years with the little team that they have.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Revenue is down by quite a margin, this is how you measure.

They are still projecting it to go down further.

Now the relevance to the thread is why the sharp decline as it is sharp.

No content in this expansion to keep people engaged, as such people are done fast and stopped playing.

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Again, from your website:

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Sales of Final Fantasy XIV were down year over year, which isn't surprising since this marked the post-Endwalker period, and also a greater return to something closer to pre-pandemic life across the world. Sales in 2020 and 2021 were buoyed both by other industry events, but also the pandemic affecting so many around the world.

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They even outright acknowledge it. Part of that sales decline is people not buying the game - not subs. Which makes sense. You only buy the expansion once. In June 2022, people were still buying the expansion. In June 2023 people who were going to buy the expansion have already bought the expansion. That's a "decline in revenue", which doesn't even require a decline in subs.

For the game to have "stopped growing", there'd have to be no new sales AND more sub cancellations than additions. This data doesn't support that.

Revenue is down comparing a MMO 6 months after its new expansion to 18 months. That's what's relevant. I get you REALLY want this to be true, but all you're doing is showing an ignorance of statistics, sales, and MMO lifecycles.

They straight up say in the article sales are down because we're further from the pandemic so people that gamed more during it are gaming less, and post-Endwalker, meaning people aren't buying the expansion because they already own it. They straight up addressed the numbers. It wasn't "no content".

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EDIT:

To put it another way, will you come here a year from now, August 2024, during the height of Dawntrail sales, and tell us all about how FFXIV must be seeing fantastic growth and massive content that is engaging to literally everyone because sales are up year over year?

Because sales WILL be up in Aug 2024 over Aug 2023 due to people buying the expansion and all the people resubbing for the story, new raid fights, and so on. I think we can reasonably predict that their sales will be higher a year from now. Does that mean the game will be marching forward with massive growth that will never end and presages the dawn of a new golden age of gaming?

Of course it won't.

It'll just be the logical consequence of a year with an expansion vs a year without one.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

Not a single soul believes that CBU3 is back to solely working on FF14. They're working on FF16 for PC and FF16 DLCs at the MINIMUM.

What else are you working on, CBU3? What are you not telling us? Are you hiding the fact that you're working on FF17, the next MMO, so that people will continue to have copium for FF14? Because that's what happened to 11.

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CBU3 isn't a single development team for a single game. It consists of multiple teams for multiple games. Of course it's not only working on FFXIV.

If you want to know everything that CBU3 is working on, you probably should invest in Square Enix so you can ask questions and get answers as a shareholder.

As for coming clean with their plans for FFXIV, they did last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2TWmsce_eg&t=1749s

They can't help it if you don't want to listen to the information they've released.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/square-e...les-2000128641

The game is no longer growing and more then likely we will see a shrink or just less going forward.

We won't see another end Walker busy release unless blizz messes up but they are doing very well with dragon flight

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I was replying to a comment about a super hero team called the Doom Patrol by pointing out that one exists. Not everything is an attempt to start an argument.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...w4ge/giphy.gif

https://i.redd.it/q5bwrr6q1lf21.jpg

Do people look at Squares financial report, the analysis and the figures in the last quarterly report for instance are quite clear.

As for speculation about development please point us at a product roadmap and/or product strategy and then we can have a useful thread.....

Is the OP a major SE shareholder? Why are they asking for a developmental roadmap for an entire division on a forum?

How long do you think this game will go on? If anything 7.0 is a borderline surprise.

While there aren't many fair comparisons that can be made between FFXI and FFXIV, there are a few important ones: both are subscription-based and avenues to make money for the company. Eventually, the graphics get worn out, the developers run of new concepts to add to the game, and they will have a hard time competing with eye-candy that uses a new game engine.

With that said, FFXI's last real expansion was 2013... essentially 11 years after the servers went live. We are approaching the 10 year mark (let's not count 1.0). By the time the expansion is released, we are at the 11 year mark. FFXIV devs have followed a pretty specific formula since HW. It is pretty easy to know the nature of new content (comes out like clockwork). The graphics are getting worn out (I'm personally fine with them - I'm old school and still play 8/16-bit games). The formula is getting tired.

EW sort of wrapped up one "era" of the game - the one that started back in 2.0. The next expansion might not tie in much with that, but it doesn't mean it will begin the next 10 year story arc. In my opinion, they'll like have this next expansion and possibly one more after that. Followed by "mini-expansion" - sort of a content dump to keep subs up a little longer. Then it will just go into maintenance mode.

We are closer to the end of the line than the beginning. It just isn't clear when that will happen. For myself, I'm enjoying the ride and would rather see the game sunset when it makes sense to do it instead of making a story that doesn't "fit" with the Eorzea we know. I'll cross my fingers that Dawntrail is not that expansion.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

copium

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I do not think this word means what you think it means.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

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It's an entirely made-up word. It doesn't really mean anything.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

How long do you think this game will go on? If anything 7.0 is a borderline surprise.

While there aren't many fair comparisons that can be made between FFXI and FFXIV, there are a few important ones: both are subscription-based and avenues to make money for the company. Eventually, the graphics get worn out, the developers run of new concepts to add to the game, and they will have a hard time competing with eye-candy that uses a new game engine.

With that said, FFXI's last real expansion was 2013... essentially 11 years after the servers went live. We are approaching the 10 year mark (let's not count 1.0). By the time the expansion is released, we are at the 11 year mark. FFXIV devs have followed a pretty specific formula since HW. It is pretty easy to know the nature of new content (comes out like clockwork). The graphics are getting worn out (I'm personally fine with them - I'm old school and still play 8/16-bit games). The formula is getting tired.

EW sort of wrapped up one "era" of the game - the one that started back in 2.0. The next expansion might not tie in much with that, but it doesn't mean it will begin the next 10 year story arc. In my opinion, they'll like have this next expansion and possibly one more after that. Followed by "mini-expansion" - sort of a content dump to keep subs up a little longer. Then it will just go into maintenance mode.

We are closer to the end of the line than the beginning. It just isn't clear when that will happen. For myself, I'm enjoying the ride and would rather see the game sunset when it makes sense to do it instead of making a story that doesn't "fit" with the Eorzea we know. I'll cross my fingers that Dawntrail is not that expansion.

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Can't be a borderline surprise when the devs have constantly been telling its audience in various ways that FFXIV is still an ongoing project even before Endwalkers release.

I know we discuss, joke and criticize them for not listening sometimes but do we as the playerbase also guilty of this? Do we just not pay attention?

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Originally Posted by TheNight

They're working on FF16 for PC and FF16 DLCs at the MINIMUM.

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How do you know these things? Are you HR? You have someone on the inside? LOL

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

How do you know these things? Are you HR? You have someone on the inside? LOL

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They already announced they were going to work on a PC version so there's nothing shocking about that.

Whether or not they'll make any DLCs for XVI is unknown. Some would like DLCs for the "missing years" or that would explain one of the games bigger mysteries. Personally, I don't see much point in the former and I think the game had already left a massive hint that solves the latter.

I'm mostly sure SE's plan for the future is to make more money.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's an entirely made-up word. It doesn't really mean anything.

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So is every word. People give it meaning. Otherwise we'd still talk in grunts.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

How long do you think this game will go on? If anything 7.0 is a borderline surprise.

While there aren't many fair comparisons that can be made between FFXI and FFXIV, there are a few important ones: both are subscription-based and avenues to make money for the company. Eventually, the graphics get worn out, the developers run of new concepts to add to the game, and they will have a hard time competing with eye-candy that uses a new game engine.

With that said, FFXI's last real expansion was 2013... essentially 11 years after the servers went live. We are approaching the 10 year mark (let's not count 1.0). By the time the expansion is released, we are at the 11 year mark. FFXIV devs have followed a pretty specific formula since HW. It is pretty easy to know the nature of new content (comes out like clockwork). The graphics are getting worn out (I'm personally fine with them - I'm old school and still play 8/16-bit games). The formula is getting tired.

EW sort of wrapped up one "era" of the game - the one that started back in 2.0. The next expansion might not tie in much with that, but it doesn't mean it will begin the next 10 year story arc. In my opinion, they'll like have this next expansion and possibly one more after that. Followed by "mini-expansion" - sort of a content dump to keep subs up a little longer. Then it will just go into maintenance mode.

We are closer to the end of the line than the beginning. It just isn't clear when that will happen. For myself, I'm enjoying the ride and would rather see the game sunset when it makes sense to do it instead of making a story that doesn't "fit" with the Eorzea we know. I'll cross my fingers that Dawntrail is not that expansion.

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I don't think 7.0 existing is a surprise at all. If it's still profitable why stop? The main problems with XIV is they don't innovate but rather throw systems under the bus and what they bring out is painfully generic in terms of game systems. It baffles me to this day that they think FATEs are still acceptable for overworld content. But then again they made a game out of the most boring aspects of XIV with XVI. Walk to a too easy fight and watch a cutscene kinda deal.

If they could they'd probably delete healers and tanks and give you an NPC companion so you can deeps. lol

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I don't think 7.0 existing is a surprise at all. If it's still profitable why stop? The main problems with XIV is they don't innovate but rather throw systems under the bus and what they bring out is painfully generic in terms of game systems. It baffles me to this day that they think FATEs are still acceptable for overworld content. But then again they made a game out of the most boring aspects of XIV with XVI. Walk to a too easy fight and watch a cutscene kinda deal.

If they could they'd probably delete healers and tanks and give you an NPC companion so you can deeps. lol

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I think a lot of things they implemented and tried out had a good base and with improvements they could have been good additions to the game. But instead of improving on things that could turn out good they seem to throw the idea out the next expansion when all it needs is improvements from feedback provided from the community.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

I think a lot of things they implemented and tried out had a good base and with improvements they could have been good additions to the game. But instead of improving on things that could turn out good they seem to throw the idea out the next expansion when all it needs is improvements from feedback provided from the community.

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Exactly. Look at GCs and the NPCs. But yay, we got yet another Deep Dungeon and 6 lifeless overworld zones with lobotomised FATEs. It's crazy how accepting the average MMO player is of mediocrity in this genre. Like when people say it's impossible to have good storytelling in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Exactly. Look at GCs and the NPCs. But yay, we got yet another Deep Dungeon and 6 lifeless overworld zones with lobotomised FATEs. It's crazy how accepting the average MMO player is of mediocrity in this genre. Like when people say it's impossible to have good storytelling in MMOs.

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I just wish they go back to being more experimental with there content and if something happens to have some success or positive feedback then further improve on it.

If you ask me the developer’s compulsion to make new content, ignore feedback on it, then refuse to ever update or continue the content is one of the game’s biggest problems right now lol.

Like I would bet Gil (I don’t have irl money) that come 7.0 we will never hear about criterion dungeons ever again lol. Island Sanctuary? Pssshhh, what’s that?
Look at this brand new content we’re doing that’s poorly implemented, has no/lacklustre rewards, and has no bearing on anything besides being another random, self-contained dungeon with mechanics that already appeared before and some unnecessary glamour rewards for the exclusive currency it gives.
Addendum: it could be argued this describes almost all content in ffxiv lol

Honestly I’ll admit it’s very ‘tinfoil hat’ but a part of me believes ffxiv exists as a platform for funding future SE games, and not as a video game in its own right. It’s basically just a crowdsourcing tool that uses sexy big boob bunnies and naked modded cat-girls to draw subs that never get put back into the game itself

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Originally Posted by Connor

If you ask me the developer’s compulsion to make new content, ignore feedback on it, then refuse to ever update or continue the content is one of the game’s biggest problems right now lol.

Like I would bet Gil (I don’t have irl money) that come 7.0 we will never hear about criterion dungeons ever again lol. Island Sanctuary? Pssshhh, what’s that?
Look at this brand new content we’re doing that’s poorly implemented, has no/lacklustre rewards, and has no bearing on anything besides being another random, self-contained dungeon with mechanics that already appeared before and some unnecessary glamour rewards for the exclusive currency it gives.
Addendum: it could be argued this describes almost all content in ffxiv lol

Honestly I’ll admit it’s very ‘tinfoil hat’ but a part of me believes ffxiv exists as a platform for finding future SE games, and not as a video game in its own right. It’s basically just a crowdsourcing tool that uses sexy big boob bunnies and naked modded cat-girls to draw subs that never get put back into the game itself

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Have to admit, I hope they don't abandon Island Sanctuary - I really enjoy it!

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Have to admit, I hope they don't abandon Island Sanctuary - I really enjoy it!

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I agree, I really enjoy Island Sanctuary too. But given their track record, I won’t be holding my breath to see it continued in 7.0. Then again, maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised

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Originally Posted by Connor

If you ask me the developer’s compulsion to make new content, ignore feedback on it, then refuse to ever update or continue the content is one of the game’s biggest problems right now lol.

Like I would bet Gil (I don’t have irl money) that come 7.0 we will never hear about criterion dungeons ever again lol. Island Sanctuary? Pssshhh, what’s that?
Look at this brand new content we’re doing that’s poorly implemented, has no/lacklustre rewards, and has no bearing on anything besides being another random, self-contained dungeon with mechanics that already appeared before and some unnecessary glamour rewards for the exclusive currency it gives.
Addendum: it could be argued this describes almost all content in ffxiv lol

Honestly I’ll admit it’s very ‘tinfoil hat’ but a part of me believes ffxiv exists as a platform for funding future SE games, and not as a video game in its own right. It’s basically just a crowdsourcing tool that uses sexy big boob bunnies and naked modded cat-girls to draw subs that never get put back into the game itself

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Be prepared to hand over that gil now. They already stated at the Fanfest that they will continue doing Variant and Criterion dungeons in 7.0 and that they have other content that is classified the same as the Island Sanctuary planned as well. Whether that is an expansion of the current island or another piece of content using the same systems we don't know. But we know it is coming.

That all said, as others have stated CBUIII is more than a single dev team. It is an entire dev division that is obviously going to work on multiple projects. This is the norm for gaming companies.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

So is every word. People give it meaning. Otherwise we'd still talk in grunts.

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I spent 16 years working retail, believe me, some people still haven't gotten far past that point.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I don't think 7.0 existing is a surprise at all. If it's still profitable why stop? The main problems with XIV is they don't innovate but rather throw systems under the bus and what they bring out is painfully generic in terms of game systems. It baffles me to this day that they think FATEs are still acceptable for overworld content. But then again they made a game out of the most boring aspects of XIV with XVI. Walk to a too easy fight and watch a cutscene kinda deal.

If they could they'd probably delete healers and tanks and give you an NPC companion so you can deeps. lol

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I don't think there is anything wrong with FATEs or how they work, the problem is they don't give anything we need. Even the bicolor gemstones are only useful to a point, once you have bought everything you want with them there is no reason to go back for anything. Honestly I don't know what they could give out from FATEs that would make them useful in perpetuity. I think one of the problems we are running into with XIV is too many currencies, nearly every piece of content gives it's own kind of currency and that currency is then used to buy a very limited selection of items. Variants are a great example of this, the rewards you can buy are very few and the currency you get from it can only be used to buy these items. Honestly they could have made relic materials come from Variant dungeons, I feel like that is a missed opportunity.