G-give it Back T---T; !!

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

yeah this obsession is weird, miss me out on that, really cringe at this point tbh

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https://media4.giphy.com/media/5xtDa...giphy.gif&ct=g

The Kaiten whining spam can't be considered healthy behavior at this point, and it's really cringe.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

https://media4.giphy.com/media/5xtDa...giphy.gif&ct=g

The Kaiten whining spam can't be considered healthy behavior at this point, and it's really cringe.

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it was funny the first few times but yeah at this point its just very weird and also very obsessive to the point it becomes extra cringe

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

it was funny the first few times but yeah at this point its just very weird and also very obsessive to the point it becomes extra cringe

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Being obsessive is cringe, as long as it's not me or my interests, right? Didn't you spend last two days arguing about some dumb houses, up to a point where you needed to switch between your alts just to surpass 20 posts/day limit? Did I barge in there just to tell that you guys are cringe?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

it was funny the first few times but yeah at this point its just very weird and also very obsessive to the point it becomes extra cringe

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

The Kaiten whining spam can't be considered healthy behavior at this point, and it's really cringe.

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Yes being passionate about features you like with a hobby or entertainment like a Game and wanting to see it back after it being removed? is very unhealthy... and there's nothing else worse ever on FFXIV ever done by other players ever...

( ... meanwhile the NSFW content on Twitter ... )

Yoshi P told us to give them their Feedback, we're doing exactly that. Now I haven't posted in a long while... saw the apparently also equally unhealthy Samurai cosplayer with the Bring Back Kaiten sign... ( obviously unhealthy ), felt the tiny desire to share it for 10 minutes on the forums. But yes... My sincere apology for.... Caring and not staying quiet? and using the forums for its intended purpose to give feedback as we are told? the cringe, the obsession, the unhealthy behavior, and my eye soring hurtful words I am so sorry.

Could be worse though... I could obsessing over others obsessing about every other Topic on XIV on the Forums on a regular basis or the only thing they do... Now that be truly unhealthy who would do that XD amirite? ( right... )



PS: Give back our Kaiten, mhm

https://i.ibb.co/vknC104/You-Choose-Death.png

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Yes being passionate about features you like with a hobby or entertainment like a Game and wanting to see it back after it being removed? is very unhealthy... and there's nothing else worse ever on FFXIV ever done by other players ever...

( ... meanwhile the NSFW content on Twitter ... )

Yoshi P told us to give them their Feedback, we're doing exactly that. Now I haven't posted in a long while... saw the apparently also equally unhealthy Samurai cosplayer with the Bring Back Kaiten sign... ( obviously unhealthy ), felt the tiny desire to share it for 10 minutes on the forums. But yes... My sincere apology for.... Caring and not staying quiet? and using the forums for its intended purpose to give feedback as we are told? the cringe, the obsession, the unhealthy behavior, and my eye soring hurtful words I am so sorry.

Could be worse though... I could obsessing over others obsessing about every other Topic on XIV on the Forums on a daily basis... Now that be truly unhealthy who would do that XD amirite? ( right... )



PS: Give back our Kaiten, mhm

https://i.ibb.co/vknC104/You-Choose-Death.png

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Being "passionate" is fine, you're being absolutely obsessed with it, you keep spamming posts about it whenever you get the occasion to, no matter what the topic is, it's just weird.

And yes it is unhealthy to be this obsessed with a spell in a video game, and also very cringe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Yes being passionate about features you like with a hobby or entertainment like a Game and wanting to see it back after it being removed? is very unhealthy... and there's nothing else worse ever on FFXIV ever done by other players ever...

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If that was all this was, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Really, I would. There are things I've been passionate about that have been removed too, so I get it on that level. But you've taken it far past simple passion. This isn't passion, this is obsession.

Kaiten is one ability in a video game. Does it suck that it is gone? Sure. And I agree that Shinten spam is bad. I think that the best solution would have been either a Kaiten rework (because Kaiten really wasn't as great as you guys seem to think it was, it was mostly that the rotation wasn't Shinten spam) or a new ability that uses Kenki. But spamming threads about Kaiten is just annoying.

If this is a topic that means a lot to you, go make a post on the DPS forums about it. If the devs don't listen to you there, then they aren't listening (as usual) and spamming General is not going to help your case.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If that was all this was, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Really, I would. There are things I've been passionate about that have been removed too, so I get it on that level. But you've taken it far past simple passion. This isn't passion, this is obsession.

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Looking at that person's post history is... telling to say the least, I had to take a look

that aint passion, it's complete obsession, literally spamming any thread no matter what the topic is and bringing it up, yikes

I for one, am generally indifferent to the gameplay of SAM but I agree that the devs should definitely implement Kaiten back into the rotation when the playerbase has THIS much pushback on it's removal. I fully support everyone making their voices loud and clear, for as long as it takes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If that was all this was, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Really, I would. There are things I've been passionate about that have been removed too, so I get it on that level. But you've taken it far past simple passion. This isn't passion, this is obsession.

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You think this is bad? you should see my four houses and 20 rooms... My decorating obsession trumps this hehe

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

I for one, am generally indifferent to the gameplay of SAM but I agree that the devs should definitely implement Kaiten back into the rotation when the playerbase has THIS much pushback on it's removal. I fully support everyone making their voices loud and clear, for as long as it takes.

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Most of the people that were mad over its removal aren't even really that mad about Kaiten itself, they're mad that SAM's rotation has devolved into Shinten spam. Kaiten itself wasn't really a very interesting button, it just offered a different button to press than Shinten. So instead of reimplementing Kaiten, why not design a better ability that uses Kenki? That solves the actual issue at hand while also making SAM more interesting than either pre or post Kaiten removal.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

My decorating obsession trumps this hehe

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That's really not a good thing. The Kaiten obsession is bad enough.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

Being obsessive is cringe, as long as it's not me or my interests, right? Didn't you spend last two days arguing about some dumb houses, up to a point where you needed to switch between your alts just to surpass 20 posts/day limit? Did I barge in there just to tell that you guys are cringe?

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Discussing a topic you are passionate about in one thread is not the same thing as being so obsessed with one skill in a video game that you feel the need to post numerous threads about it over the course of months, if not longer. (I'm not looking through their post history as I value my sanity)

Every CelestiCer SAM post will get support from me.

Give back Kaiten!

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Most of the people that were mad over its removal aren't even really that mad about Kaiten itself, they're mad that SAM's rotation has devolved into Shinten spam. Kaiten itself wasn't really a very interesting button, it just offered a different button to press than Shinten. So instead of reimplementing Kaiten, why not design a better ability that uses Kenki? That solves the actual issue at hand while also making SAM more interesting than either pre or post Kaiten removal.



That's really not a good thing. The Kaiten obsession is bad enough.



Discussing a topic you are passionate about in one thread is not the same thing as being so obsessed with one skill in a video game that you feel the need to post numerous threads about it over the course of months, if not longer. (I'm not looking through their post history as I value my sanity)

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Yup, very big difference tbh, the housing topic was.. on topic, and in the same thread.

OP literally posts on completely random threads about Kaiten, that's why it's unhealthy, it's an obsession.

Easily the best post about this I've ever seen.

I just want Kaiten back for you guys. I don't even play SAM but you guys and more clearly want it so why not put it back in as it was?

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Aero III
Shadowflare
Miasma II
Bane
Time Dilation
Luminiferous Aether animation
Nocturnal Sect
Old Celestial Opposition

Delete SGE and EW SMN.

And yes pls Kaiten too.

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And Dark Knight's Power Slash.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Every CelestiCer SAM post will get support from me.

Give back Kaiten!

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https://i.ibb.co/71xKwY0/Awwwww.gif

Very kind words, thank you x3

+1 for Kaiten's rightful reinstatement.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

And Dark Knight's Power Slash.

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How 'bout Dark Knight's entire damn kit and identity at this point? It feels like half a class because it is half a class. Most of the stuff that really made it neat were stripped out and given to other jobs. These days it's just Wal-Mart brand WAR, the chief differences being its slightly more active burst window (and slightly higher burst) and its near-total inability to sustain itself.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

That's like saying a DRK player that doesn't want HW DRK back was never really a DRK main.

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Any DRK player from HW era who still plays DRK and doesn't miss dark arts is lying.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

At this point so do I just so they can stop talking about how much they miss it and go back to complaining about the actual issues SAM has...

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There wasn't really any issues with Sam prior to 6.1. The few that were, were minor and easy to fix.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Most of the people that were mad over its removal aren't even really that mad about Kaiten itself, they're mad that SAM's rotation has devolved into Shinten spam. Kaiten itself wasn't really a very interesting button, it just offered a different button to press than Shinten.

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No, I like kaiten because it was fun to use. Yes, shinten spam sucks, and yes kenki is a problem, but kaiten was FUN. A cool animation between GCDs that has an animation that flows perfectly into the iajutus. It was the build up to big damage. Seeing the big crits was FUN.

I'm having fun with reaper this tier because of the enshroud phase. Sure, the samurai in our static is parsing higher because yes, their damage output is consistent now with almost no variance, but it's BORING. I can get 70k+ crits with reaper and seeing big fat crits makes me happy. Seeing wimpy little 30k auto crits from big wind up skills on samurai absolutely sucks.

Give me back kaiten, give me back variance. No kaiten, low hit auto crit casted skills and shinten spam is incredibly boring.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

... Kaiten itself wasn't really a very interesting button ...

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Blasphemous...

That our gameplay devolved into Shinten spamming has been noted endless times. The unhappiness is also because the Dev's asked feedback, that we gave and got ignored. After a while? their response was to tackle DPS variance with Auto-Crit. Kaiten removal was unnecessary to introduce Auto-Crit so this excuse was appalling... Kaiten could have even been the reason that we Auto-Crit, I still would not have liked this change - but even this they didn't do.

The second response to the negative backlash was they wanted to tackle " Bloat ", again making no sense as they could have easily merged/combined/fused the following...

• Shoha I and Shoha II
• Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri
• Senei and Guren

...Solving actual bloat and keeping Hissatsu: Kaiten.

The argument to give up anything in exchange for something new and better is a fools view to an empty promise of something that might never arrive. They should remove something until they have something to replace it with. Perhaps its mistranslation? not Button Bloat but Action Bloat? which we tested and debunked, as our new non-Kaiten rotation did not reduce our CPM/APM.

The way this all was handled around 6.1 left a bitter taste as we felt lied to. Nothing justified turning our gameplay into Shinten spamming and there's no sign that SE will stop with hollowing out Job designs as they announce new reworks. We voice our concerns due to our passion... as we are told by Yoshi P to do on the Forums, the place to post feedback? only then to be told we should be silent cause we're fill in label i.e obsessive... Somehow never surprises me how we're more focused on how much we can paint another persons posts in a negative light over what we write can be used as meaningful feedback to positively impact the game or the experience for players.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Blasphemous...

That our gameplay devolved into Shinten spamming has been noted endless times. The unhappiness is also because the Dev's asked feedback, that we gave and got ignored. After a while? their response was to tackle DPS variance with Auto-Crit. Kaiten removal was unnecessary to introduce Auto-Crit so this excuse was appalling... Kaiten could have even been the reason that we Auto-Crit, I still would not have liked this change - but even this they didn't do.

The second response to the negative backlash was they wanted to tackle " Bloat ", again making no sense as they could have easily merged/combined/fused the following...

• Shoha I and Shoha II
• Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri
• Senei and Guren

...Solving actual bloat and keeping Hissatsu: Kaiten.

The argument to give up anything in exchange for something new and better is a fools view to an empty promise of something that might never arrive. They should remove something until they have something to replace it with. Perhaps its mistranslation? not Button Bloat but Action Bloat? which we tested and debunked, as our new non-Kaiten rotation did not reduce our CPM/APM.

The way this all was handled around 6.1 left a bitter taste as we felt lied to. Nothing justified turning our gameplay into Shinten spamming and there's no sign that SE will stop with hollowing out Job designs as they announce new reworks. We voice our concerns due to our passion... as we are told by Yoshi P to do on the Forums, the place to post feedback? only then to be told we should be silent cause we're fill in label i.e obsessive... Somehow never surprises me how we're more focused on how much we can paint another persons posts in a negative light over what we write can be used as meaningful feedback to positively impact the game or the experience for players.

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If you kept it to your own threads, it would be fine tbh, but you're spamming it all over multiple threads, including some that have nothing to do with Kaiten or even SAM in general

your post history shows that enough, and I invite anyone who doesnt believe what I say to look at OP's history themselves.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

If you kept it to your own threads, it would be fine tbh, but you're spamming it all over multiple threads, including some that have nothing to do with Kaiten or even SAM in general

your post history shows that enough

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That's great, I'll take note of that.

Doubt your response would be any different if I didn't post occasional joking meme's in other threads or even deleted them now as I'm not allowed to do that like others do every now and then with your... morale high-ground because it doesn't follow your I guess interests? If you have anything else meaningful to share with us other then attempting to 1-up in responding or checking the logs/ my posting history while overly-obsessing over another's obsessive obsession... (obsession-ception? ) You're otherwise free to bump this thread as many times as you wish while continuously bringing nothing to the table. Won't hurt my feelings, mhm <3

https://i.ibb.co/k17gF4C/Heart.png

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

That's great, I'll take note of that.

Doubt your response would be any different if I didn't post occasional joking meme's in other threads or even deleted them now as I'm not allowed to do that like others do every now and then with your... morale high-ground because it doesn't follow your I guess interests? If you have anything else meaningful to share with us other then attempting to 1-up in responding or checking the logs/ my posting history while overly-obsessing over another's obsessive obsession... (obsession-ception? ) You're otherwise free to bump this thread as many times as you wish while continuously bringing nothing to the table. Won't hurt my feelings, mhm <3

https://i.ibb.co/k17gF4C/Heart.png

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Or maybe you could just yknow, keep your things to your own threads which would actually be constructive instead of spamming every thread that is not related to kaiten about it ?

Also I dont care about "bumping" your thread, nor am I here to hurt your feelings.

Your post history shows that you have 0 respect for others and that you spam every thread with your kaiten stuff, which once again shows you are weirdly obsessed about a spell in a video game.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Blasphemous...

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I don't even really disagree with a lot of what you said in this particular post. The devs are terrible at listening to feedback. There were much more deserving targets of getting removed/changed if the reason is button bloat. But at the same time, Kaiten wasn't an interesting button. You chained it with certain abilities in literally every case possible, making it essentially a combo action that you weaved. It should have gotten reworked to be more interesting or replaced by something else. It getting removed with no replacement is the only reason why its removal is a problem other than "I think it looked cool".

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

If you kept it to your own threads, it would be fine tbh, but you're spamming it all over multiple threads, including some that have nothing to do with Kaiten or even SAM in general

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Yeah, pretty much this. It's just gotten annoying after you've done it a thousand times. There's only so many times you can go "but my Kaiten" before it gets old. Like I said, if this is still a relevant topic, go spam this on the DPS forums where a dev might see it.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

You're otherwise free to bump this thread as many times as you wish while continuously bringing nothing to the table.

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You bring nothing to the table other than thread spam more spammy than Shinten spam.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Clearly spamming "but muh kaiten" in every thread possible no matter the topic will help bring it back ! /s

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I'd imagine that the devs would be less likely (than they already are) to listen to feedback when it's presented like this.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I don't even really disagree with a lot of what you said in this particular post. The devs are terrible at listening to feedback. There were much more deserving targets of getting removed/changed if the reason is button bloat. But at the same time, Kaiten wasn't an interesting button. You clicked it in literally every case possible, making it essentially a combo action that you weaved. It should have gotten reworked to be more interesting or replaced by something else.



Yeah, pretty much this. It's just gotten annoying after you've done it a thousand times. There's only so many times you can go "but my Kaiten" before it gets old. Like I said, if this is still a relevant topic, go spam this on the DPS forums where a dev might see it.



You bring nothing to the table other than thread spam more spammy than Shinten spam.

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Clearly spamming "but muh kaiten" in every thread possible no matter the topic will help bring it back ! /s

Honestly, I miss Seigan more than Kaiten. It makes me sad that not many care for Seigan. SAM at 5.55 was still the best iteration IMO.

While i've gotten over the off feeling with Kaiten being gone, It'd would be good to have it back because Shinten spam is a pain in the arse at times. It would also be nice if Third Eye was more useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Most of the people that were mad over its removal aren't even really that mad about Kaiten itself, they're mad that SAM's rotation has devolved into Shinten spam. Kaiten itself wasn't really a very interesting button, it just offered a different button to press than Shinten. So instead of reimplementing Kaiten, why not design a better ability that uses Kenki? That solves the actual issue at hand while also making SAM more interesting than either pre or post Kaiten removal.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

... But at the same time, Kaiten wasn't an interesting button. You chained it with certain abilities in literally every case possible, making it essentially a combo action that you weaved. It should have gotten reworked to be more interesting or replaced by something else. It getting removed with no replacement is the only reason why its removal is a problem other than "I think it looked cool".

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There were many discussions on this matter, but I have yet to see solid idea for a replacement. Problem is that it cannot be anything that would result in dps loss, so realistically, it would have to be higher damage than Shinten, while being locked by higher CD. But alas, that already exists, it's called Senei. Realistically, you could make something between Senei and Shinten, but you'll end up with 3 very similar skills, which sounds really uninteresting and bland. Kaiten simply fit perfectly into the Kenki management, it was made for it and was more interesting to use than just bland damage oGCD. That's job design reason, but satisfying animation and similar are also rightful reasons.

There's obviously more to this than just Kaiten, 6.1 had like 22 changes to SAM. Circle Tenka and guaranteed crits are also bad, but people just usually talk about Kaiten since it's biggest outlier. If you want to go more in depth, this whole topic has been discussed through and through in 100+ posts in DPS subforums already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Blasphemous...

That our gameplay devolved into Shinten spamming has been noted endless times. The unhappiness is also because the Dev's asked feedback, that we gave and got ignored. After a while? their response was to tackle DPS variance with Auto-Crit. Kaiten removal was unnecessary to introduce Auto-Crit so this excuse was appalling... Kaiten could have even been the reason that we Auto-Crit, I still would not have liked this change - but even this they didn't do.

The second response to the negative backlash was they wanted to tackle " Bloat ", again making no sense as they could have easily merged/combined/fused the following...

• Shoha I and Shoha II
• Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri
• Senei and Guren

...Solving actual bloat and keeping Hissatsu: Kaiten.

The argument to give up anything in exchange for something new and better is a fools view to an empty promise of something that might never arrive. They should remove something until they have something to replace it with. Perhaps its mistranslation? not Button Bloat but Action Bloat? which we tested and debunked, as our new non-Kaiten rotation did not reduce our CPM/APM.

The way this all was handled around 6.1 left a bitter taste as we felt lied to. Nothing justified turning our gameplay into Shinten spamming and there's no sign that SE will stop with hollowing out Job designs as they announce new reworks. We voice our concerns due to our passion... as we are told by Yoshi P to do on the Forums, the place to post feedback? only then to be told we should be silent cause we're fill in label i.e obsessive... Somehow never surprises me how we're more focused on how much we can paint another persons posts in a negative light over what we write can be used as meaningful feedback to positively impact the game or the experience for players.

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I still don't understand how they ended up adding Shoha 2 without first changing how Shoha worked since they wanted to reduce button bloat, a simple solution would have been to have Shoha replace Hakaze and Shoha 2 replace Fuga when you got your 3 stacks (just add Hakaze's potency to Shoha and Fuga's to Shoha 2 to prevent any dps loss) but no, let's get rid of that one skill a lot of people enjoy using and save one key instead of 2.

It's just mind blowing, as if they used a dice 20 on a 5 difficulty roll and get a 1 (too much Baldur's gate 3 lately).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Syln

I still don't understand how they ended up adding Shoha 2 without first changing how Shoha worked since they wanted to reduce button bloat, a simple solution would have been to have Shoha replace Hakaze and Shoha 2 replace Fuga when you got your 3 stacks (just add Hakaze's potency to Shoha and Fuga's to Shoha 2 to prevent any dps loss) but no, let's get rid of that one skill a lot of people enjoy using and save one key instead of 2.

It's just mind blowing, as if they used a dice 20 on a 5 difficulty roll and get a 1 (too much Baldur's gate 3 lately).

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I agree with sentiment, but that suggestion is terrible, you're supposed to pool meditation stacks, just like any resource. There's period of like 15 seconds before burst where you hold all 3 stacks all the way until the start of burst. Solution for button bloat (btw, they never said anything about button bloat to my knowledge, that's community made) would be merging Iki+Ogi, Kyuten+Shinten, Senei+Guren, Shoha 1+2, and voila, 4 less buttons, even with Kaiten, SAM would have like 2 buttons less than average job.

Only bloat-related reasoning which devs talked about is action bloat. But that makes no sense, APM in burst is identical (at maximum, you do 1/2 less action in burst if you pool Kenki properly), and you even use same amount of distinct buttons, because now you need to use gap closer to spend the last 10 Kenki:
https://i.imgur.com/5L2ujmD.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deo14

...Kaiten simply fit perfectly into the Kenki management, it was made for it and was more interesting to use than just bland damage oGCD. That's job design reason, but satisfying animation and similar are also rightful reasons.

There's obviously more to this than just Kaiten, 6.1 had like 22 changes to SAM. Circle Tenka and guaranteed crits are also bad, but people just usually talk about Kaiten since it's biggest outlier. If you want to go more in depth, this whole topic has been discussed through and through in 100+ posts in DPS subforums already.

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Indeed. I personally was not a fan of the following changes next to Kaiten removal...

• Tenka Goken turned into a Circle
• Senei/Guren cost decreased by half
• Seigan removal
• Senei introduced next to Guren
• Shoha II introduced next to Shoha II

The changes served to reward laziness for equal/more damage performance, making it no where near as satisfying to execute. " Kaiten removal" stood out due to gameplay going to Shinten Spamming yes, but also the Dev's lying about the reasons for its removal as the reasons they gave were... well to put it blunt... bulls**t. Kaiten removal is but a tiny detail of what SE has done... chipping away at every bit of complexity other Jobs had. An obsession to optimally streamline everything for the unreachable perfect balance at the cost of Job gameplay...

The player audience between w/e is casual and hardcore are seemingly being erased. Casual players will be served more Casual content, while hardcore raiders are more obsessed with fights/mechanics content, leaving less and less for what's in between as Square removes any ounce of skill-expression there is left from Jobs they continuously simplify. I believe SE can do way better then this, simply because they have in the past.

More buttons for the sake of more is equally as faulty as Less buttons for the sake of Less. Strike a balance, grant Job-execution some depth that doesn't raise the Skill-Floor to keep it player-friendly yet lift the Skill-ceiling as optional skill-expression to make mastering jobs feel rewarding... Remove something only when ready to replace it with something immediately instead of leaving an empty space for an excessive long period that fixed and improved absolutely nothing...

Samurai and Dark knight mains are just weebs.

Ok I said it, now you can downvote me. Wait this is not reddit..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I just want Kaiten back for you guys. I don't even play SAM but you guys and more clearly want it so why not put it back in as it was?

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This is my position as well.

It IS an obsession, people that want it back ARE irrational in how they will lash out at anyone they perceive as preventing that (even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them), but I personally don't care. If it made people happy, give it back to them? As long as it isn't making a bunch of other people upset, what's the harm? No one hurt, lots more happy, win-win/net positive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

Samurai and Dark knight mains are just weebs.

Ok I said it, now you can downvote me. Wait this is not reddit..

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Then I'm a happy weeb

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

This is my position as well.

It IS an obsession, people that want it back ARE irrational in how they will lash out at anyone they perceive as preventing that (even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them), but I personally don't care. If it made people happy, give it back to them? As long as it isn't making a bunch of other people upset, what's the harm? No one hurt, lots more happy, win-win/net positive.

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I won't disagree with that, but I really hope that you're not speaking about yourself when you said "even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them". You've made single argument in the DPS subforum, and that is that there are "well thought out counters to it having been removed" from theory crafters and guide makers. I've asked you for the source in like 4 instances in span of 2 days, do you mind finally linking them, or did you just made it up without any source? Come on, just link it, I want to have a good laugh about what some theory crafters and guide makers think about job design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

You think the new Melee Job is going to be Corsair.
But you have been deceived...

The new Job will be...

...Kaiten.

Kaiten will be the Job. The entire Job will be Kaiten. All buttons will be Kaiten. You will Kaiten your Kaiten before Kaitening. All buttons, all animations, all resource management; the Job will be Kaiten. The full and complete embodiment of Kaiten, having thrown off its ephemeral imperfections. When you change into the Job, the Job stone will he the Kaiten icon, and your character will turn into the Kaiten icon. It won't even have arms and legs, that would be imperfect. It will just be the Kaiten icon floating in the air, performing Kaiten.

The tagline at the end of the full DawnTrail trailer will be thus:

"Become what you must. Become the Warrior of Kaiten."

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you meme, but after watching them gut AST and distribute its skills across the healer role and then cleave out its sect system so sage wouldn't feel intimidated, I'd bet 11 dollars that the new melee job has some pre-emptive button you press before doing your actual chunky skill that reminds people of kaiten. they kinda did it with the aoes too, didn't they? removed conal from jobs that had it for years, replacing it with awkward circle aoes. but then randomly gave conal aoes to other slightly newer jobs ... was it rpr? I don't remember. main point being, they love removing stuff and then returning it later but to other jobs entirely lol

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Originally Posted by Deo14

I won't disagree with that, but I really hope that you're not speaking about yourself when you said "even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them". You've made single argument in the DPS subforum, and that is that there are "well thought out counters to it having been removed" from theory crafters and guide makers. I've asked you for the source in like 4 instances in span of 2 days, do you mind finally linking them, or did you just made it up without any source? Come on, just link it, I want to have a good laugh about what some theory crafters and guide makers think about job design.

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Nice way to try framing the conversation.

For those interested, Deo is referencing this thread, feel free to go there and tell her what you think personally: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lay-FF14-again

Because I didn't outright say "Yeah, everyone agrees, add Kaiten back!" and pointed out that there are people who disagree, I DARED to challenge "unanimity", she's spent about 5 pages of that thread in increasingly unhinged baby attacks, trying to bring up other threads, and even though her initial post to me was about a technicality, she later claimed I was the one arguing technicalities. In order to save face, she's now bringing up other threads and discussions from other parts of the forum, posting memes, deriding my posts, and trying to change the subject instead of just admitting her initial actions were wrong.

And when I pointed out she doesn't want links in good faith so it's a waste of my time to post them, she even proves me right here "I want to have a good laugh about" it. She has no interest in seriously considering it NOR about admitting that support for Katien being returned isn't universal.

And the thing is, she's picking a fight with me while I'm literally saying to give her what she wants.

Not only will she not take the L, she won't take yes for an answer.

That's the kind of unhinged we're working with. For once I agree with Twinpeaks and AwesomeJr.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Nice way to try framing the conversation.

For those interested, Deo is referencing this thread, feel free to go there and tell her what you think personally: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lay-FF14-again

Because I didn't outright say "Yeah, everyone agrees, add Kaiten back!" and pointed out that there are people who disagree, I DARED to challenge "unanimity", she's spent about 5 pages of that thread in increasingly unhinged baby attacks, trying to bring up other threads, and even though her initial post to me was about a technicality, she later claimed I was the one arguing technicalities. In order to save face, she's now bringing up other threads and discussions from other parts of the forum, posting memes, deriding my posts, and trying to change the subject instead of just admitting her initial actions were wrong.

And when I pointed out she doesn't want links in good faith so it's a waste of my time to post them, she even proves me right here "I want to have a good laugh about" it. She has no interest in seriously considering it NOR about admitting that support for Katien being returned isn't universal.

And the thing is, she's picking a fight with me while I'm literally saying to give her what she wants.

Not only will she not take the L, she won't take yes for an answer.

That's the kind of unhinged we're working with. For once I agree with Twinpeaks and AwesomeJr.

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I said "pretty much unanimously", yet you somehow made whole argument that I was saying that every 100% of players agrees with it. Also, there was other person in the thread who wanted those links, so just link it not for me, but for her? And yes, I don't want those links in good faith, I know I'll just laugh reading them, just like you wanted links for my data back in "Just quit" thread in a bad faith, except that I did give them to you, and then you discredited them.

Just some interesting info for others - this guy doesn't even have leveled SAM.

I don't really miss Kaiten... It was a button that more or less punished you when it doesn't activate despite you pressing it.


But if we're gonna talk about bringing stuff back, how about pre-6.3 PLD, their attempts to change the class to fit their obsession with burst windows nerfed it quite bad. and I'm pretty sure it does even less burst damage now than it did before...