Too strict in-game communication rules

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They were extremely apologetic that they allowed this person to behave this way in their game.

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They literally repeat that same line about how apologetic they are to everyone even with troll reports, how naive are you lmao

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

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https://media.tenor.com/jzG6T6iMc3UAAAAM/zugzug-zug.gif

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Originally Posted by Koros

They literally repeat that same line about how apologetic they are to everyone even with troll reports, how naive are you lmao

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Oh I'm sure they do. But it says a lot about their mindset. It doesn't matter if that is the mindset of the GMs, or the people higher up the chain in Japan. It is what it tells me about how SE perceive's their role.

I think generally if you are a well adjusted adult who realises they are playing in a space with people from many different walks of life, including teenagers, you will avoid trouble.

Every time I find myself getting irritated, I step back internally and remind myself it's just a video game and then usually the player in question is a child or someone new or struggling and I move on. If I get really irritated to the point I know I am going to snap, I leave.

"BUT I PAY TO BE HERE" people also pay to use community centers or pools or gyms. That doesn't mean the space isn't public and requires civility.

I'm usually pretty chatty and regularly help out with mechanics and I have never encountered this issue once. Neither has anyone else that I know. Seems like you come across as more rude and aggressive than you realise.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

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Originally Posted by EZGIL

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This is why we can be friends.

People complaining about how strict/bad SE is about banning are only telling me they didn't even try to read/understand the ToS/Prohibited Activity listing.

That or their mouth is so filthy they no longer comprehend how rude/crude they are.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

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*ninja loots*
Whoops, my finger slipped on need. :^)

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Originally Posted by Boys

It's not surprising people talk little in the game world (outside their groups) besides very basic and repeating messages (hi, gg, gratz, etc), it looks pathetic. There's rarely any natural interections in the world (when both sides can take a bit of bitting).

Have you read this? https://support.eu.square-enix.com/f...la=2&kid=68216
Basicly you can't even simply tell "your tactic is bad" without risking a report and consequences. I tell you with time (as more and more people face it in practice) this is gonna be one of the main reasons game will downfall with people "loosing balls" to talk to anyone.

They could as well just make a special adult server or chat channels for people which agree to talk and be talked to however they want (without constantly asking for "consent"). And let depressing people to live in their depressing world. But something tells me those people will be fast to change their offense evaluation and will accept cool kids server terms letting principles go as they take them - whenever it suits them.

Now the real talk, anyone here actually being "sucessfully" reported for something that minor? Please, don't give me that "just don't be a dick" stuff, I want to hear real stories. which can help me and others to decide if they want to continue playing in environment gravitating towards being sterile.

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There is a difference between saying "your tactic is bad" and "hey I noticed you aren't using X skill, why?".

Giving constructive feedback is good and won't get you in trouble. Being a pr*ck to someone, will.

Have never been reported, because you know, I'm not a d*ck.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

There is a difference between saying "your tactic is bad" and "hey I noticed you aren't using X skill, why?".

Giving constructive feedback is good and won't get you in trouble. Being a pr*ck to someone, will.

Have never been reported, because you know, I'm not a d*ck.

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But are you a goose?

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

You and I must come from completely different worlds. There’s nothing endearing to it. To me it looks like a rude vulgar person trying to bully people. There’s nothing constructive to it either (it still doesn’t say what is best to do). Besides, I’ve never had a trainer speak like that and I would not rehire such a trainer if it were to happen. While I personally would not have bothered reporting it, I would not be surprised if someone did. People from different backgrounds, languages and cultures play this game, including on the NA servers.

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Your world is plain and boring, with that non-defiant spirit people would never get to that point of civilization, let alone invent computers and online games. Again, I wish there were special servers for less sensitive people. And I am saying again, EVERYONE (or at least many of those trying to seem very sensitive) would go there.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain.

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I am sure Mark Twain (as many other great people of other eras) would roll over in grave knowing how twisting this world become in supressing people expression in the name of protecting it.

Idk the fragile mentality of most players is the reason people will never get better at the game.

We had a sprout join in EX6, asked him if he knew what he was doing.. Silence.
30 minutes of wiping to the same guy messing up, we asked him again, Do you know what you are doing?.. Silence.

Eventually somebody turned around and told him to "f" off and stop trolling everyone, and then he just answers with "reported, you can't tell me how to play".

Next day the person who said "f" off was on a 3 day ban.

The entire punishment system on XIV is a disgusting joke, you can intentionally troll people and never get touched, yet you say one thing wrong in chat, instaban.

There've been threads in the past where people were temporarily banned for stuff they said in chat, but the GMs wouldn't release the logs to protect whoever reported them, so we've never been able to truly know what was said. There're so many instances of people who were banned or given a strike who have no idea what they even did wrong because of this. I realize a lot of people are in here like "well I've never been in trouble for speaking my mind," but go actually read the ToS op linked and then understand that all it takes is one butthurt imbecile to land a strike on your account that just sits there and never goes away, all because of some banal thing you said after a wipe. And yeah, that's basically why even though I'm generally polite and mild mannered (though it might not seem that way from my forum posts sometimes, haha), I only get honest in chat when it's around people I know, and barely say more than a "hi" or a "my bad" if it's randoms. Call it paranoid, idc, this community gets blown the hell out emotionally over the smallest slights imaginable, so good luck with that if you wanna see how long you can go. I really think the only thing stopping more people from reporting is how bad the report system is in general. It's like a whole separate form that you have to struggle to find because just right clicking people only gives you an rmt report option for some reason.

idk, not trying to shit on anyone. props to people who just say shit in dutyfinder. couldn't be me though, this community's soft and gets butthurt over anything. For example, I've seen people early pull by mistake and get threatened with a report for it, in like... alliance raids, lmao. Or we had this guy a while back who kept trying to dump these long exhaustive "mechanical explanation macros" in chat before each boss in the orbonne monastery, and when someone in our group was like "bro nobody asked for this" the macro guy got all butthurt and pissy that nobody, not even the newcomers, wanted to have a fucking guide for an easy game forced on them for the next 40 minutes. Another time, someone in our group reminded our DNC to just ... partner someone, anyone, and the DNC got pissy as hell over being told what to do. Basically this community makes me wonder how they function in the real world sometimes, so I speak as little as possible in dutyfinder, and when I do have to say more than a greeting, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells about it and I fucking hate it.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Idk the fragile mentality of most players is the reason people will never get better at the game.

We had a sprout join in EX6, asked him if he knew what he was doing.. Silence.
30 minutes of wiping to the same guy messing up, we asked him again, Do you know what you are doing?.. Silence.

Eventually somebody turned around and told him to "f" off and stop trolling everyone, and then he just answers with "reported, you can't tell me how to play".

Next day the person who said "f" off was on a 3 day ban.

The entire punishment system on XIV is a disgusting joke, you can intentionally troll people and never get touched, yet you say one thing wrong in chat, instaban.

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idk kick them??

people need to realize that you only win if you start kicking shitters

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

It is only defined that strictly in examples for the sake of coverage - basically so Square Enix has the authority and due process to be as lenient or as strict as they want without having to be concerned with players being able to sue or get out of the contract because it was full of loopholes and therefore not binding. You'll see most companies do exactly the same thing.

You're likely to never get in trouble for passively mentioning to someone that they are doing a mechanic wrong, or that they are even a bad player, so long as you do it in a respectable manner. It's just that Square Enix CAN be that strict, and they want that to be understood in documentation.

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sure, and there are always overzealous GMs. Moderation is not consistent in this game lmao

It is only defined that strictly in examples for the sake of coverage - basically so Square Enix has the authority and due process to be as lenient or as strict as they want without having to be concerned with players being able to sue or get out of the contract because it was full of loopholes and therefore not binding. You'll see most companies do exactly the same thing.

You're likely to never get in trouble for passively mentioning to someone that they are doing a mechanic wrong, or that they are even a bad player, so long as you do it in a respectable manner. It's just that Square Enix CAN be that strict, and they want that to be understood in documentation.

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Originally Posted by Boys

Your world is plain and boring, with that non-defiant spirit people would never get to that point of civilization, let alone invent computers and online games. Again, I wish there were special servers for less sensitive people. And I am saying again, EVERYONE (or at least many of those trying to seem very sensitive) would go there.

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You've literally never heard of Alan Turing and it shows.

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Originally Posted by Boys

Your world is plain and boring, with that non-defiant spirit people would never get to that point of civilization, let alone invent computers and online games. Again, I wish there were special servers for less sensitive people. And I am saying again, EVERYONE (or at least many of those trying to seem very sensitive) would go there.

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And there we have it, folks. As usual, the person complaining about people being thin skinned just acts like a rude jerk and doesn't like being called out for it.

You can instruct and motivate people without being a dick about it. I would know, I'm a teacher, it's my literal job.

I've been threatened to be reported because I commented once on someone's lack of job skills at lvl 60 I believe. Ever since then, I just never speak unless it's "gg" after the run is done.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Idk the fragile mentality of most players is the reason people will never get better at the game.

We had a sprout join in EX6, asked him if he knew what he was doing.. Silence.
30 minutes of wiping to the same guy messing up, we asked him again, Do you know what you are doing?.. Silence.

Eventually somebody turned around and told him to "f" off and stop trolling everyone, and then he just answers with "reported, you can't tell me how to play".

Next day the person who said "f" off was on a 3 day ban.

The entire punishment system on XIV is a disgusting joke, you can intentionally troll people and never get touched, yet you say one thing wrong in chat, instaban.

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Y'all could not have handled that situation worse if you tried. Walk me through that logic. You see someone who isnt communicating and clearly not ready/unwilling to participate properly and you let them continue for 30 minutes? Why didnt you kick after the first wipe they caused? You say they intentionally trolled. Then why did y'all act like they didnt?

New rule: you only get to complain about chat rules if you dont take the worst course of action imagineable.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

And there we have it, folks. As usual, the person complaining about people being thin skinned just acts like a rude jerk and doesn't like being called out for it.

You can instruct and motivate people without being a dick about it. I would know, I'm a teacher, it's my literal job.

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He's absolutely thin-skinned. This entire topic was an ego-stroke because a mod called him out and he wanted vindication, troops rallied to his side and to educate us on topics he paints with a vague brush, yet having no strength in the topic at hand.

Did you notice how he spends most of his time just quoting other people? He literally said that computers wouldn't have been made if people weren't defiant. It opens up a VERY interesting topic about, first of all, how wrong he is, and second of all, just how Turing was far from "defiant." The man was a victim because he was gay and took a bite out of a poisoned apple because he couldn't take it anymore. That's why the Apple logo has a bite taken out of it.

There you go, Boys. That's TWO things you've learned today.

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

He's absolutely thin-skinned. This entire topic was an ego-stroke because a mod called him out and he wanted vindication, troops rallied to his side and to educate us on topics he paints with a vague brush, yet having no strength in the topic at hand.

Did you notice how he spends most of his time just quoting other people? He literally said that computers wouldn't have been made if people weren't defiant. It opens up a VERY interesting topic about, first of all, how wrong he is, and second of all, just how Turing was far from "defiant." The man was a victim because he was gay and took a bite out of a poisoned apple because he couldn't take it anymore. That's why the Apple logo has a bite taken out of it.

There you go, Boys. That's TWO things you've learned today.

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This is a very frequent impression I get from people complaining about how thin skinned other people are. Maybe a mirror would help more than posting on forums.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is a very frequent impression I get from people complaining about how thin skinned other people are. Maybe a mirror would help more than posting on forums.

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I'm not convinced they're actually thin skinned so much as finding "hurr hurr this is fun" entertainment by taking everyone else for a ride. Trolls go to extreme lengths for their own entertainment, regardless of what it makes them look like or who gets hurt in the process.

Just look at what Musk is doing to Twitter. He is absolutely the guy to say "You know what, F that guy, I'm gonna buy his entire company and watch it burn to the ground. For 40 mil? That's a BARGAIN."

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Originally Posted by Boys

Basicly you can't even simply tell "your tactic is bad" without risking a report and consequences.

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No, it depends from the way u saying it, if u focusing on insulting a person - its bad, if u are focusing on explaining mistakes, without insulting anyone - its ok.
"U succ, u bad, u silly, why cant u play better? Get Good! Why cant focus on 'A'? are u stupid? Worst party I ever have! Looks like we have a french healer... Our dps are sleeping!" - is not a good way to explain player mistakes/flaws.

Also "your tactic is bad", when used in proper context, will not risk u to get bonked. Simply if u focus on why tactic is bad, instead of focusing on insulting the person who suggested the "tactic"

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

We had a sprout join in EX6, asked him if he knew what he was doing.. Silence.
30 minutes of wiping to the same guy messing up, we asked him again, Do you know what you are doing?.. Silence.

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Well there is some context we're probably missing here though, such as whether it was a practice or a farm party. And if it was a farm party, did they forget to use [Duty Complete]?

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Eventually somebody turned around and told him to "f" off and stop trolling everyone, and then he just answers with "reported, you can't tell me how to play".

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It's not necessary to say that though. It's easy enough to just leave, disband or kick the individual. Saying that is a cheap shot when you can just be practical and remove either them or yourself from the party so that you are no longer in a trap.

Now, yes, joining a farm party aimed at confident players when you are not confident in mechanics is cheap as well, but two wrongs don't make a right, so the practical thing is just separating them from the party somehow so they can consider training more in a practice party.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Lol no and since you were directly answering to me, my world, while polite, is full of excitement. I’ve lived across 12 different countries, speak several languages, dined with heads of state, sailed with Cousteau and in the Arctic, landed in pretty rough places, worked with “crazy scientists”, helped several communities getting the best of developments and much more. Being vulgar and rude is not exciting, it’s boring and closes many doors on you.

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Excuse me. Let me rephrase it in THAT definition of "world" -what world you leave for others less fortunate, without abilities or money ? Instructing sprouts in calm and absolutely respected manner using blunt phrases and words, without any emotional reward? Thank you, my lord, thank you, you're so generous. I have more rights and fun talking with strangers on my street then in virtual world which was supposed to connect people around the world. That what game you protect and make, enjoy your pride.

Please don't start on that "everything is in your hands", there's various scinece disciplines of biology and sociology saying otherwise, how there are things effecting you and your life before you even get concieved.

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Originally Posted by Boys

Excuse me. Let me rephrase it in THAT definition of "world" -what world you leave for others less fortunate, without abilities or money ? Instructing sprouts in calm and respected manner using blunt phrases and words, without any emotional reward? Thank you, my lord.

And please don't start on that "everything is in your hands", there's various scinece discipline saying otherwise how there are things effecting you and your life before you even get concieved.

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What emotional reward do you get from verbal sewage that the ability to use it means so much to you?

I hope you didn't grow up in a verbally abusive home so you think that's all there is to life.

Context is what matters. Are you frustrated over a situation? Most players are going to overlook the rare use of an obscenity. The GMs are probably going to overlook it as well if it gets reported for some stupid reason. They might give you a warning to be more careful with your language in the future but it's very unlikely they would take it farther than that unless you took it to an excessive level or get frequently reported for it.

Directing obscenities at other players is the line you do not want to cross. That is a hard no in this game.

I would love to say "just use common sense" but you might lack that depending on how you grew up. The lack still won't protect you from the consequences of your actions. Unlike children, adults don't get "I didn't know" as an excuse to get out of trouble.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What emotional reward do you get from verbal sewage that the ability to use it means so much to you?

I hope you didn't grow up in a verbally abusive home so you think that's all there is to life.

Context is what matters. Are you frustrated over a situation? Most players are going to overlook the rare use of an obscenity. The GMs are probably going to overlook it as well if it gets reported for some stupid reason. They might give you a warning to be more careful with your language in the future but it's very unlikely they would take it farther than that unless you took it to an excessive level or get frequently reported for it.

Directing obscenities at other players is the line you do not want to cross. That is a hard no in this game.

I would love to say "just use common sense" but you might lack that depending on how you grew up. The lack still won't protect you from the consequences of your actions. Unlike children, adults don't get "I didn't know" as an excuse to get out of trouble.

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Ironic how you can get reported for what you're saying here according to forum rules and take consequences on the forum and in the game accordingly. But I can take the punch and don't tell you haven't enjoyed giving it.

You might want to be safe and report me fast first! Stalin would be proud.

I swear I've seen grapes with thicker skin than some of the people in this thread.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I swear I've seen grapes with thicker skin than some of the people in this thread.

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While others are more edgy then 1.0 Endwalker ones. xD
"Truth is somehwere in between." But noone left to acknowledge it.

aaannd,
it seems the thread is practically over.

As most are now back and forth, and the OP has officially gone into safemode/bluescreen

now focusing on comments that aren't focusing on things that are vaguely debatable or discuss able.

Hope you all have a good day
Remember,
Rules and Exceptions
(This whole thread was built on the latter. While the former didn't bother the majority at all)

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

aaannd,
it seems the thread is practically over.

As most are now back and forth, and the OP has officially gone into safemode/bluescreen

now focusing on comments that aren't focusing on things that are vaguely debatable or discuss able.

Hope you all have a good day
Remember,
Rules and Exceptions
(This whole thread was built on the latter. While the former didn't bother the majority at all)

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Everyone has their limits. Sorry to dissapoint. Betetr luck next time?

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Originally Posted by Boys

Ironic how you can get reported for what you're saying here according to forum rules and take consequences on the forum and in the game accordingly. But I can take the punch and don't tell you haven't enjoyed giving it.

You might want to be safe and report me fast first! Stalin would be proud.

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People can be reported for any reason at all. Reporting someone doesn't mean that a moderator (or GM if in-game) is going to take any action.

I've said nothing that violates the forum rules. Nor do I have any reason to report you.

If you're not interested in a constructive discussion, just say so.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

People complaining about how strict/bad SE is about banning are only telling me they didn't even try to read/understand the ToS/Prohibited Activity listing.

That or their mouth is so filthy they no longer comprehend how rude/crude they are.

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Thing is, people say FF14 community is nice, but thats not true, the only reason why you don't get the public and this is the important part, public vitriol is because of the TOS.

TOS doesn't create a nice community, this playerbase is mostly a suppressed angsty vitriol community.

Is nice by actual inwards core or something thats suppressed to make it seem like it?

You know they actually make horror movies thats actually not that far off from the FF14 playerbase scenario come to think of it.

Considering how prevalent the sexual harassment between players in this game is, I'd rate actually this is a crude playerbase.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Thing is, people say FF14 community is nice, but thats not true, the only reason why you don't get the public and this is the important part, public vitriol is because of the TOS.

TOS doesn't create a nice community, this playerbase is mostly a suppressed angsty vitriol community.

Is nice by actual inwards core or something thats suppressed to make it seem like it?

You know they actually make horror movies thats actually not that far off from the FF14 playerbase scenario come to think of it.

Considering how prevalent the sexual harassment between players in this game is, I'd rate actually this is a crude playerbase.

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That is just wrong, you can go online and ask people about the ToS. Most people will tell you that they have never heard about the community guidelines.

The reason why the XIV players are generally nicer is because they like the game they play, sure not all of them and you see the toxic trash that comes out of that here on the forums, which gives a much more positive environment.

I've had maybe three bad experiences with the in-game community in the entire time I've been playing. The community is the same as any other large group of random anonymous people. It averages out much nicer than most MMOs I've played, but whether that's about XIV's community being good or most MMOs being cesspits is open to interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

That is just wrong, you can go online and ask people about the ToS. Most people will tell you that they have never heard about the community guidelines.

The reason why the XIV players are generally nicer is because they like the game they play, sure not all of them and you see the toxic trash that comes out of that here on the forums, which gives a much more positive environment.

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Then will you say other mmos and lets use WoW as an example to follow the same suit?

I think you are wrong, people have been drawn to this game in recent times due to understanding the terms applied to the game.

There is a reason why there is such a high influx of poor playing, because people feel protected by it.

Also people think they are playing the game because its a false sense of niceness, its just covered up - my post you quoted should be noted for the important part, PUBLIC - outside this FF14 community ranks amongst the worst.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Then will you say other mmos and lets use WoW as an example to follow the same suit?

I think you are wrong, people have been drawn to this game in recent times due to understanding the terms applied to the game.

There is a reason why there is such a high influx of poor playing, because people feel protected by it.

Also people think they are playing the game because its a false sense of niceness, its just covered up - my post you quoted should be noted for the important part, PUBLIC - outside this FF14 community ranks amongst the worst.

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I'd have to agree with this. WoW has tried to curb the behaviour of their player base, which largely did nothing. The social contract, and updated terms resulted in little change. The community knows there is no moderation, and the behaviour of its players as a result are that of the Wild West. Lets not even mention trade chat.

Now I don't think that FFXIV is nice, because they like the game. If that were the case, then we'd expect nice behaviour in most other highly rated MMORPG's. The thing is, that you will not find that in other MMORPG's. Why? XIV's harsh stance on poor behaviour especially regarding speech is well known. WoW players for instance, even those who love the game will be toxic in world chats, there is no fear of reprecussions for anything they say. In XIV, not being nice to someone can potentially put your account at risk. Effectively, this neuters the behaviour trolls can get away with, and other people who generally interact with people in a negative manner will just opt to not speak, or put up the niceness facade.

It only takes one look at communities, hosted outside of FFXIV to see that we are no better than the MMO's we criticize on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

That is just wrong, you can go online and ask people about the ToS. Most people will tell you that they have never heard about the community guidelines.

The reason why the XIV players are generally nicer is because they like the game they play, sure not all of them and you see the toxic trash that comes out of that here on the forums, which gives a much more positive environment.

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People loved playing WoW years ago as well but there was still a lot of toxic behavior even then.

To me the difference is that most of FFXIV's content isn't competitive in nature. One person playing poorly generally won't cause others in the party to lose more than a few extra minutes they'll have to spend in the dungeon. The rewards at the end won't change.

Competition has a tendency to bring out the worst in people, especially in those who take it too seriously. One person playing poorly can mean a loss to everyone in the party and some people have a hard time losing. Most MMOs have included some form of open world PvP so even if you don't opt into it, your game experience can still impacted by those who do.

Still, most players regardless of what game they're playing or content they're doing are absolutely fine. It's that small minority that's very vocal in unpleasant ways that set the tone the game community ends up associated with.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Now I don't think that FFXIV is nice, because they like the game. If that were the case, then we'd expect nice behaviour in most other highly rated MMORPG's. The thing is, that you will not find that in other MMORPG's.

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I think that is also partially because of the aesthetic of FFXIV.

FF games have things that appeal to masculinity such as war and fighting and swords, challenges and killing bosses, but also things that appeal to femininity such as fashion, a story centered around emotion and feeling and characters telling you all their sob stories and cute things such as a cat and bunny race and lalafells. I once had someone beg me for a butterfly minion I looted in a dungeon. They had been farming it endlessly because it's cute. So I just gave it to them.

Whereas some other games have almost only got a focus on the war, fighting, swords, challenges, killing bosses, being competitive and the rest is largely forgotten about or an afterthought.

When choosing a game, some people will look at FFXIV and dismiss it in favor of one that is not full of things like emotion, feeling, sob stories, cats, bunnies, lalafells, butterflies.

But that also results in it appealing to people these other games would not.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

To me the difference is that most of FFXIV's content isn't competitive in nature. One person playing poorly generally won't cause others in the party to lose more than a few extra minutes they'll have to spend in the dungeon. The rewards at the end won't change.

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This is all a good point too. There is no point in being toxic in a dungeon, because you know that if you wipe you'll just all adjust and learn and clear on the second pull. Even the most clueless people will learn enough on the second pull to clear a FFXIV dungeon. So what is the point in being toxic?

Then there are other design decisions that help, such as a tomestone/experience bonus for helping the new player through instead of abandoning. A commendation system to make you think about what someone did well rather than what they did wrong.

Systems such as PvP and the Gold Saucer are designed in a way where, even if you lose, you still get really good rewards, just slightly less. Whereas if you got no rewards or lost rewards, people would be really angry and take it out on others (which most likely happens in games with such a design decision).

The game is designed to reduce toxic behaviour.