Not a real Final Fantasy

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Originally Posted by KaplanHomahru

Nah, its kinda hateful (and hard to understand). He says SE tricked us, he says this isn't a "real final fantasy" and actually the only question he asks in the OP is: 'Who in their right mind would take out classes'.

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Those were everyone's thoughts at launch, based on the horrible disappointment of this game. I'm still pretty disappointed and annoyed with some of the things they've done with it. I'm still not seeing anything hateful.

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Originally Posted by Daku_Naito

You're kidding right? Bullying? OP seems to have made a whole post based on little knowledge of the FF series. People with knowledge are calling him out on it. It isn't bullying, it just makes sense.

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God forbid anyone ask questions they don't know the answers to. The correct way of handling a ignorant non-hostile post would be to educate him, not bash and laugh at him until he quits the forums entirely.

If he was actually hostile then bash him until he learns a lesson, but he wasn't.

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Originally Posted by MysteriousRonin

God forbid anyone ask questions they don't know the answers to. The correct way of handling a ignorant non-hostile post would be to educate him, not bash and laugh at him until he quits the forums entirely.

If he was actually hostile then bash him until he learns a lesson, but he wasn't.

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I assume you have not spent much time on these forums

I don't know where this thread went,
but,
I know from personal experience,
the only way to get better with a martial art or weapon style (in this case)
is by doing.
That's why I like the Armoury System; it represents a different growth than most games. It starts with: choose a basic weapon, then you learn it, then you learn the actual Job when you get the Job. But it all builds basically off a guy/girl randomly running out into the wilderness with a cruddy metal sword and learning how to stab/slash/whatever marmots, dodos, wolves, etc.

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Originally Posted by Sleepytoro

learning these "spells", these staff and swords can tell us things that we dont know? i remember fondly in Final Fantasy X and X-2 have the orbs which teach the user memories. I don't think they make it that clear in FFXIV

edit: what i ment to say was, how do we learn stronger better skills after equipping the weapons. FFX-2 teaches memories, FFXI teaches us through scrolls. FFXIV teaches through??

Edit: FFVII teaches using materia

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Thats why we had to do guild quest to unlock weapon skills and traits by getting enough guild points, the guild teached us the mos important skills, i dont know if those still exist, but that was the main idea of that system, besides there was a level experience point and a class skill point system, with the level system you could be a level 50 character with a "gladiator skill level one" helping you to skill up your class faster and at the end making your own class by combining different classes skills without restrictions, like a gladiator having thaumaturge spells would equal a red mage hybrid.

At the end everything got too complex and the roles werent done as they should have, Now you see a paladin and you know that you'll have a tank in your party, the armoury system its a very interesting one, far more interesting than talent trees used in several new and old MMO's, we wouldnt have any jobs if the game release wasnt rushed in the first place, was a good system but with lots of flaws.

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Originally Posted by MysteriousRonin

God forbid anyone ask questions they don't know the answers to. The correct way of handling a ignorant non-hostile post would be to educate him, not bash and laugh at him until he quits the forums entirely.

If he was actually hostile then bash him until he learns a lesson, but he wasn't.

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Seen the recent appearance change thread? People are just mad the 2.0 trailer got delayed so they're taking their frustration out on the forums. Yay!

I know I've seen this sort of thread before...

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Originally Posted by Mort

The biggest reason i dont like it, is like OP said, weapons is tied to each class. I want to be able to use a set of weapons for each job. Its quite ugly how they did with Conjurer and Thaumaturge, both use quite the same weapons. Also its going to get even more ugly when they need a new class for each new weapon, then add 2-3 jobs for each class.

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Well, they may appear the same, but it was well thought out.
Think of the classes the weapons represent: Conjurer is like a caretaker of Gaia (Hydaelyn), and it's defining weapons are staves and wands made from the earth: trees, leaves, etc.
Thaumaturge is a Church-like entity, the iron hand of the Twelve. Their weapons are much more like the "heavier" classes: pure metal, but with a look of certain elegance.
And they haven't said much, but I think it's pretty logically apparent that they are going to have multiple jobs per class, and probably only need to add a few more classes overall.
Wouldn't mind some sort of Fencer, myself.

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Originally Posted by MysteriousRonin

Those were everyone's thoughts at launch, based on the horrible disappointment of this game. I'm still pretty disappointed and annoyed with some of the things they've done with it. I'm still not seeing anything hateful.

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Lol yes but that was because of the horrible engine, lack of content, horrible intro experience, etc.....Not the class system. But whatever :-)

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Originally Posted by Falen

I don't know where this thread went,
but,
I know from personal experience,
the only way to get better with a martial art or weapon style (in this case)
is by doing.
That's why I like the Armoury System; it represents a different growth than most games. It starts with: choose a basic weapon, then you learn it, then you learn the actual Job when you get the Job. But it all builds basically off a guy/girl randomly running out into the wilderness with a cruddy metal sword and learning how to stab/slash/whatever marmots, dodos, wolves, etc.

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Except your not learning a tool of war your learning a class. just because you select a class that's proficient in its use doesn't make you an expert swords man right auto the box, this game seems to think it does.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Except your not learning a tool of war your learning a class. just because you select a class that's proficient in its use doesn't make you an expert swords man right auto the box, this game seems to think it does.

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Except you're not an expert swordsman right out of the box. Level 0 would be no skill. Level 1 would be beginner, and this is reflected in your skill list. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell didn't have things like Rage of Halone, Goring Blade, Chaos Thrust, Simian Thrash and the like at level one.

I had to earn of series of points that showed I had experience with the class.....what do they call those again?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Except you're not an expert swordsman right out of the box. Level 0 would be no skill. Level 1 would be beginner, and this is reflected in your skill list. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell didn't have things like Rage of Halone, Goring Blade, Chaos Thrust, Simian Thrash and the like at level one.

I had to earn of series of points that showed I had experience with the class.....what do they call those again?

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i think those are called magic points
or maybe levels, could be either

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Except your not learning a tool of war your learning a class. just because you select a class that's proficient in its use doesn't make you an expert swordsman right out of the box, this game seems to think it does.

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*Fixed it for you
If this game thought you did, they wouldn't talk about a character not having enough experience for certain quests or for Job quests say that you are learning something by doing this. I almost wish it was something like, "Fight this NM three times, and you'll have Jump only for this fight until you use Jump in the fight with this guy at least 3 times!" But that'd be hard for them to do.
And you would have all your skills at Level 1. Is it hard to learn to swing a sword? No!
Is it hard to learn how to swing properly, when to swing and when to block? To evade and beat? Yes, very much so!
I have experience in martial arts, so I know how it is to "Level Up" your skill over time. At first, you swing a hundred times, then two hundred, then 5, then a thousand, etc. etc. Just like each swing is an experience point you're earning.

OP, your way of thinking on the subject is slightly limited. Open up a bit and you'll find out exactly what I'm talking about. Let me demonstrate...

The Armory System was not built around your weapons 'giving' you certain abilities. That's FFIX. Rather, by using certain weapons, you learn to use them certain ways and adapt to their benefits and detriments. Think of yourself as a Disciple of War. You aren't a monk, you aren't a paladin, you are Tommy Toughnuts, and you hit stuff. Your goal is to make stuff die. How do you do that? By equipping certain weapons or arms. Which one? Doesn't matter. You hit stuff.

Some weapons let you parry with them, others let you dance around the battlefield, still other will cleave a monster in two. It doesn't matter which one you pick, because at the end of the day, you are still Tommy Toughnuts, and you still hit stuff to make it die.

You also have to remember that the abilities for most 'jobs' are still in the game for you to build with. Want to be a classic Red Mage? Go for it. Hop on Gladiator, equip cures, nukes, and light armor with a fast sword. But wait. What if you never liked the fact that Red Mage used a sword? What if your vision was a Red Mage with a spear?! Hop on Lancer, with all of the benefits and detriments of wielding a long, hafted weapon, and equip some cures, nukes, and light armor with whatever speed lance you want! Red Mage a la your wildest dreams.

I liked the original Armory System. It let you build whatever class you wanted to play. Were all of these optimal? Noooooo not at all. Were they hella fun? You bet they were.

So you see, tossing out the idea of 'jobs' and 'classes' was really Tanaka's vision of letting us, the players, go on whatever kind of adventure we wanted, as whatever we wanted.

Open-ended MMOs FTW. Too bad it never caught on.

What is and isn't final fantasy is totally subjective.

The way I see it, the main thing all final fantasy games have in common is the bestiary. Every game does invent some of its own but all the most famous monsters are in basically every game. Also the mythological roots are common to most of the games.

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Originally Posted by Sleepytoro

This is something that has been giving me an itch for a few days now. I just realized we were ticked into playing FFXIV (starting beta and launch days) presumably thinking, that this game is just like the other Final Fantasy's. Lets look at the root of the problem; the Armoury System. Who in their right mind would take out classes. Really, I understand the first producer had his ambitions and desires, BUT Final Fantasy has always had Classic, distinct, Final Fantasy classes. I don't mind, too bad, renaming them but making the idea of the Armoury System apart of a Final Fantasy game is heresy to Final Fantasy name! Our weapons is not the source of our power! The classes come form our past experiences, in turn, these classes are either taught, learned or passed down through linage. Not by equipping a weapon and so be it...

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What the what??? I am confused by this thread.

Honestly other than the job system in FFXI the game didn't feel overly Final Fantasy to me. Well some of the lore and other tidbits occasionally gave it a Final Fantasy feel. Same goes with FFXIV though there are tidbits that give the feeling for me but overall I think Final Fantasy has yet to really grasp how to become a MMO and still have that unmistakable Final Fantasy feel to it. Some may disagree but both the online titles for me have been lackluster and just doesn't have that magic feel a single player FF title does.

By the way I am not saying the games suck in any form or fashion because FFXI is nearly my favorite MMO to date and FFXIV will likely take that spot or come close come 2.0. I enjoy the games immensely but I don't know if an online FF title with ever give me that same feeling as I get when I buy a new FF offline title. Hopefully Yoshi-P can bring that magic to us, though a lot of the things he has brought to the game has been in the right direction for me like the primal fights and the job system etc.

Cheesecake.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Cheesecake.

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Thank you for posting this thread. As this thread is now about cheesecake and not Final Fantasy XIV, we will have to lock it at this time.

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Originally Posted by MysteriousRonin

God forbid anyone ask questions they don't know the answers to. The correct way of handling a ignorant non-hostile post would be to educate him, not bash and laugh at him until he quits the forums entirely.

If he was actually hostile then bash him until he learns a lesson, but he wasn't.

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You are aware he didn't ask much of a question, he made a statement based on little knowledge of the series he was talking about it. People tend to talk to others in this same manner in the real world. Grow up. It wasn't about being mean, because honestly people weren't, they just didn't take him seriously.

Most of the recent Final Fantasies have had characters sticking with a single type of weapon throughout the game, so if there was any REAL Final Fantasy weapon system it would be that. When you create your character you select what type of weapon you use, then regardless of job you always use the same weapon.

That would kind of suck though.

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Originally Posted by Mikheli

FFI -> Rat's Tail for job upgrade
FFII -> Can pick weapons/magic and skill them up
FFIII-> Crystals unlock job
FFIV -> Preset jobs but leveling unlocks abilities
FFV -> Crystals unlock job
FFVI -> Set jobs
FFVII -> Materia
FFVIII -> Draw/GF system
FFIX -> Set jobs
FFX -> Set jobs
FFXI -> Can change jobs 6 avalible at first 14 unlockable ones
FFXII -> Licence board or in the case of zodiack job's are selected and licences are gained from smaller boards
FFXIII -> Paragam System
FFXIV -> Weapon is your job advanced avalible through questing

Yes some of them use same job system but others are unique every FF has things that make it different <3 Chocobos, Cactaurs, Summons, and job names make them similar

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FF:Tactics(series) -> Gain jobs by mastering other jobs using ability points for skills
FF:Crystal Chronicles(Series) -> Each race has a different weapon but all can use all magic using combos
FF:Four Heroes of Light -> You gain jobs by finding hats

The only thing wrong with the armory system is SE should've used traditional FF class names right off the bat. Especially since there are still a lot of people who can't seem to pronounce "pugilist" and "thaumaturge" correctly.

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Originally Posted by Mikheli

FFI -> Rat's Tail for job upgrade
FFII -> Can pick weapons/magic and skill them up
FFIII-> Crystals unlock job
FFIV -> Preset jobs but leveling unlocks abilities
FFV -> Crystals unlock job
FFVI -> Set jobs
FFVII -> Materia
FFVIII -> Draw/GF system
FFIX -> Set jobs
FFX -> Set jobs
FFXI -> Can change jobs 6 avalible at first 14 unlockable ones
FFXII -> Licence board or in the case of zodiack job's are selected and licences are gained from smaller boards
FFXIII -> Paragam System
FFXIV -> Weapon is your job advanced avalible through questing

Yes some of them use same job system but others are unique every FF has things that make it different <3 Chocobos, Cactaurs, Summons, and job names make them similar

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Sorry just needed to correct you on something it's a paradigm system used in 13 I don't know what a paragam is but it's paradigm after a scientific theory

and Kraus why am I not surprised that you would say that... *shakes head*

I can't believe people are arguing points in this thread.... some people are just down right dumb

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I can't believe people are arguing points in this thread.... some people are just down right dumb

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I know and I did lol'd with what you said to begin with =P

As a matter of record, the Crystal Chronicles series has has multiple implementations of weaopns. In the third one (echoes of time) each race can use every weapon to varying degrees of proficiency (whereas in the previous game, while similar, each race was locked to a weapon type). My Life as a King (and Dark Lord) had jobs with weapons having different job requirements ala FFXI.
Just a little clarification there from a series fan.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I know and I did lol'd with what you said to begin with =P

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lol that was not directed at you Rannie

I believe even in the 2.0 notes there are a few mentions of bringing a more FF oriented feel to the game. everyone just needs to calm down and wait for 2.0 and enjoy the beta while we have it.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

lol that was not directed at you Rannie

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I'm glad it wasn't by the way loook behind you i see a certain cannibal =P

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Thank you for posting this thread. As this thread is now about cheesecake and not Final Fantasy XIV, we will have to lock it at this time.

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Lol.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

The only thing wrong with the armory system is SE should've used traditional FF class names right off the bat. Especially since there are still a lot of people who can't seem to pronounce "pugilist" and "thaumaturge" correctly.

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Yeah, then no one would've complained and we wouldn't have the new job system. :(

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Originally Posted by Sleepytoro

This is something that has been giving me an itch for a few days now. I just realized we were ticked into playing FFXIV (starting beta and launch days) presumably thinking, that this game is just like the other Final Fantasy's. Lets look at the root of the problem; the Armoury System. Who in their right mind would take out classes. Really, I understand the first producer had his ambitions and desires, BUT Final Fantasy has always had Classic, distinct, Final Fantasy classes. I don't mind, too bad, renaming them but making the idea of the Armoury System apart of a Final Fantasy game is heresy to Final Fantasy name! Our weapons is not the source of our power! The classes come form our past experiences, in turn, these classes are either taught, learned or passed down through linage. Not by equipping a weapon and so be it...

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Why should every FF game stands to its standart. Life itself is a change everyday, why game should not.
It has many things that belongs to FF atm.