Remember: the forums represent a tiny, loud minority

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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When you hit that bong a little bit too hard, this is what you get people, stay safe out there

Mix that with copium and you get a bad case of Subatomic

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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https://i.imgur.com/n4Hoe8W.jpg

Multi million dollar companies don't need you to defend them or stand up for them. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

https://i.imgur.com/n4Hoe8W.jpg

Multi million dollar companies don't need you to defend them or stand up for them. Just saying.

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How dare you insulting someone by calling them a white knight! /s

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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And yet we still lost good content like Eureka because of it.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

When you hit that bong a little bit too hard, this is what you get people, stay safe out there

Mix that with copium and you get a bad case of Subatomic

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I mean.. its close to 20m over a 30 day period..

But lets be real 100k online is about the average the game gets, anything thinking it is more is fully huffing that copium.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0Pb7mmM/image-...-111855309.png

Only 7 facebook stream viewers? God we just don't have the boomer demographic.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Only 7 facebook stream viewers? God we just don't have the boomer demographic.

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I hope it's a boomer erp group lol.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

And yet we still lost good content like Eureka because of it.

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Eureka is the worst content get outta here!

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I hope it's a boomer erp group lol.

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The twelve only know what goes on in an accursed FFXIV centered facebook group. But this is probably accurate

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I mean.. its close to 20m over a 30 day period..

But lets be real 100k online is about the average the game gets, anything thinking it is more is fully huffing that copium.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0Pb7mmM/image-...-111855309.png

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You have to be absolutely insane to believe this game has 20mil active players. WoW in its prime had like.. 24mil? And that was during a time where MMOs were actually popular. Luckybencho lists like what, 1,5mil active characters? And that includes alts.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You have to be absolutely insane to believe this game has 20mil active players. WoW in its prime had like.. 24mil? And that was during a time where MMOs were actually popular. Luckybencho lists like what, 1,5mil active characters? And that includes alts.

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yeah no, those numbers are literally impossible to even fit properly in this game, but it is at around 1.5 mil as you said, nowhere near 20 mil, that is some gigantic copium lmao

The 'Active Players' look just as bloated as the 'Twitch Stream Viewers'.. This data is just, the character (not person) did a thing, within that 30 day period? Does it count Free Trial?

Twitch has usually about 3-6k viewers
Steam is about 20-30k players (Maybe x6(?) if you combine all systems/consoles)

Counting me as an 'Active Player' because I logged in to do 1 roulette, refresh my house then check retainers. lol

Show me your FC player list and last login, I dare you.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You have to be absolutely insane to believe this game has 20mil active players. WoW in its prime had like.. 24mil? And that was during a time where MMOs were actually popular. Luckybencho lists like what, 1,5mil active characters? And that includes alts.

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Yeah, I wanna know the source of these stats and the context around them. 107k players in the past hour seems about right. Historically that extrapolates to about a million subscribers which is a completely believable number. But 20m active players if separate accounts would be completely insane. WoW peaks in wotlk at 10 or 12m subscribers and as best as I know this game has never come remotely close to that. Or any other MMO for that matter actually. Barring weird accounting with Lineage 1 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You have to be absolutely insane to believe this game has 20mil active players. WoW in its prime had like.. 24mil? And that was during a time where MMOs were actually popular. Luckybencho lists like what, 1,5mil active characters? And that includes alts.

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Correct.

The game has (at any given time) around 100k players active.

The '20 million active subs' isnt representative of people actually playing the game.

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copium

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That word.

It does not mean, what you think it means......

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That word.

It does not mean, what you think it means......

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Surely you would know what copium is considering how much you use it

Most people I know are very unhappy about the actual state of the game, about the lack of content, about the longer patch cycles, and so on...
Nobody of them writes in these forums. Most people who are unhappy just leave silently without saying anything here.

And I guess that lots of people here just really care about the game, instead of leaving silently.
(Of course there are also trolls here)

Light side...Dark side...

Both are boring.

Grey Jedi is where the action is act. You need some Ying to your Yang.

Being a positive person is good...but having valid complaints IS NOT BAD. You can't mute both groups.

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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I love these posts that say people who offer their opinion (because they like the game) are "Negative Nancys" or "negative, angry, or bitter", people like you are why nothing improves. I agree with others, the difficulty level of new and existing content has been lowered, the game has stagnated, many of the job changes in EW aren't that good, I've only re-subbed recently to try out new alliance raid, unfortunately it wasn't that great, like the first one of this expansion, so back to WoW DF. MMOs go through phases, where they're good for awhile, then bad, unfortunately EW seems to be in its bad phase, while WoW has climbed out of its.

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Surely you would know what copium is considering how much you use it

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You misspelled Jamaican coffee ;););) Or any kind of coffee for that matter. Theres a reason we called it the elixir of life.

Look Stormpeaks, Ill be blunt, Id prefer to be me as I am, than to ever be anything like you. I see the good in things, you apparently dont, Ill take who and what I am any day of the week, rather be as jaded , cynical and negative as you.

What you call "copium", I consider to be a far more balanced, healthy outlook. You could do worse than think on that as an alternative.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Eureka is the worst content get outta here!

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riiiiight...

The key thing that separates a solid, irrefutable data point from an irrelevant anecdotal blip that hardly represents anything is whether or not it affirms the positions of the toxic casuals.

You'll note that Lucky Bancho, for example, is great if it implies people enjoy bad game design, and a non-representative survey that hardly captures true playerbase data when it doesn't.

this is what you get when a bunch of squeaky wheels get together and post.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Eureka is the worst content get outta here!

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

riiiiight...

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I too think Eureka was hot Garbage.
But I wouldn't call it "The Worse Content" if I did then I couldnt possibly have loved The Bozjan Southern Front, which I loved the HELL out of. Because lol, its basically the same type of content.

The only ONE thing I liked about Eureka, was The Baldesion Arsenal.
I think that is the only REAL Raid ever put into FFXIV, and Im bummed we didnt get one on the same level in Bozja.
Even though Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, & Dalriada were all pretty good.

Don’t ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next products.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I too think Eureka was hot Garbage.
But I wouldn't call it "The Worse Content" if I did then I couldnt possibly have loved The Bozjan Southern Front, which I loved the HELL out of. Because lol, its basically the same type of content.

The only ONE thing I liked about Eureka, was The Baldesion Arsenal.
I think that is the only REAL Raid ever put into FFXIV, and Im bummed we didnt get one on the same level in Bozja.
Even though Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, & Dalriada were all pretty good.

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Isn't DRS basically the same as BA?

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Originally Posted by subatomic

The majority of the playerbase have one or two small issues that they wish the game can improve on, but they still Enjoy the game. We are the silent majority because we understand that Complaints don't help the game, only Feedback does <3

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I feel like this is a point often overlooked. I've been called a white knight and member of the Yoshi cult and all sorts of weird things because I still love the game. I have acknowledged its problems but after nearly 2 years of playing, Im still finding joy to be had in this game for hours at a time every day. Theres tons of minor issues and things I dont like in this game. Eureka, Bozja, Island Sancturary. They all fall short to me. But yet I am a white knight somehow. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I feel like this is a point often overlooked. I've been called a white knight and member of the Yoshi cult and all sorts of weird things because I still love the game. I have acknowledged its problems but after nearly 2 years of playing, Im still finding joy to be had in this game for hours at a time every day. Theres tons of minor issues and things I dont like in this game. Eureka, Bozja, Island Sancturary. They all fall short to me. But yet I am a white knight somehow. Lol.

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A white knight is someone who's defending the company, not the game. Calling the game perfect because you wish to overlook its mistakes, calling criticism as not feedback will grant you that title. The guy you replied to is a certified troll who claims the game is "near perfect" which simply isn't true, considering people are frustrated with certain systems that can be improved upon. Just because it's criticism, it's not necessarily bad, and if positive feedback is being ignored on a colossal level, then all you have left are complaints as last resort criticism.

You acknowledging there's issues in game means you are not a white knight, but a normal player, like the rest of us. There's a clear distinction.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I too think Eureka was hot Garbage.
But I wouldn't call it "The Worse Content" if I did then I couldnt possibly have loved The Bozjan Southern Front, which I loved the HELL out of. Because lol, its basically the same type of content.

The only ONE thing I liked about Eureka, was The Baldesion Arsenal.
I think that is the only REAL Raid ever put into FFXIV, and Im bummed we didnt get one on the same level in Bozja.
Even though Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae, & Dalriada were all pretty good.

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Eureka and Bozja aren't really the same though, other than both falling under the exploratory mission tag. In Eureka you either were grinding trash mobs off in some corner for farming or NM spawning reasons, or you sat afk in town between nm pops. Eventually you could add bunny fates to this but that isn't exactly the most compelling content. Meanwhile in bozja there were always fates you could be doing and the boss fates were reasonably fun and more involved than most of the Eureka nms. And ce's were much, much better than that.

Also nevermind how dogshit everything about Eureka was back when it was current content. A person doing Eureka now/post shb would have no idea how awful it was.

So fundamentally, Eureka's gameplay loop was inherently boring to me and bozja's was not. I have a lot of patience for fate grinding and 0 patience for random trash mob farming (between my time spent in EQ1 and FF11 I have literally 1000's of hours spent doing that and I never again wish to return).

I have no comment on BA, never did it because it was such a pain in the ass to get into back when this shit was current. It's on my bucket list of things to eventually do just because character power level in full BA gear is so high and that has some charm to it. But then on the other hand, I could only use it do more Eureka and no thanks. I like bozja and I still can't be assed to do DR savage or max out the merit points.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I feel like this is a point often overlooked. I've been called a white knight and member of the Yoshi cult and all sorts of weird things because I still love the game. I have acknowledged its problems but after nearly 2 years of playing, Im still finding joy to be had in this game for hours at a time every day. Theres tons of minor issues and things I dont like in this game. Eureka, Bozja, Island Sancturary. They all fall short to me. But yet I am a white knight somehow. Lol.

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Yeah of course 90% of the white knights are SHB/EW babies. No surprises there to anyone.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I feel like this is a point often overlooked. I've been called a white knight and member of the Yoshi cult and all sorts of weird things because I still love the game. I have acknowledged its problems but after nearly 2 years of playing, Im still finding joy to be had in this game for hours at a time every day. Theres tons of minor issues and things I dont like in this game. Eureka, Bozja, Island Sancturary. They all fall short to me. But yet I am a white knight somehow. Lol.

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You are.. Just a knight. lol

Some of us fell in the mud, and others are a lil too polished right now.

But to be fair, you're pretty new still.. So it's kinda like if I started playing WoW for the first time in Shadowlands going "What are you all even complaining about, this is great." .. Which I 100% did do. But didn't want to say anything. Because it was a great experience, until I hit the issues they were complaining about. Which took awhile, but still.

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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that's kinda rude

Bro I swear to god I've sat in Discord with the so called people that "still enjoy the game" and all I hear is copium and calling Yoshi-P for everything.

If the forums were loud, wouldn't they hear us?

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Originally Posted by Post

If the forums were loud, wouldn't they hear us?

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I mean, Mr. Yoshi-P told us himself to post critiques and feedback onto the official forum so that they can review them.
Which was probably a trap and the real reason was to post them here so that they are contained and don't spread to other media.

/s

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Originally Posted by Post

If the forums were loud, wouldn't they hear us?

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Depends. Remember that the dev team has access to a lot more data and information than we do (e.g. those infamous "engagement metrics"). Those metrics "speak", too, and if what they're saying is completely different than what the comparatively minuscule few of us post about here, then the forums might sound "loud" to those of us perusing it, but be the smallest of mouse squeaks when compared to the volume of all the other data saying otherwise.

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Originally Posted by subatomic

Most people playing the game don't use the official forums. They use Discord, Reddit, or Twitter.

Less than 1% of players use the forums, and of that, even less still are the ones who use the forums regularly.

The negative Nancys on the forums are a Tiny, Loud minority. They are here just to complain and don't reflect the 20 million players who still enjoy the game.

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Actually very wrong. There's a reason the old buzz terms like vocal minority and such don't get used anymore and that reason is because they've been proven to be totally wrong.

companies around the world have invested billions into this research and typically found the so dubbed vocal minority is actually usually not a minority at all..

For every person that has a compalaint. 26 more will have the same complaint but say nothing. and those 26 people will each tell 10 other people about there compalint and potentially turn those people away from your product.

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For every customer who bothers to complain, 26 other customers remain silent. Source: Lee Resource Inc

It takes 12 positive service incidents to make up for 1 negative incident.
Source: Lee Resource Inc

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Source

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“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain. The rest churn. A lesson here is that companies should not view absence of feedback as a sign of satisfaction. The true enemy is indifference.”

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Source

That last part is important. Silence does not equal satisfaction.

Even the SE devs said they learnt this back in the old days.
https://i.imgur.com/NHDNnZU.png

the active playerbase is also significantly less than the advertised playerbase.. the numbers SE tends to publish are how many players have played the game... not how many do.. and if yougo by recent social media stuff 28 million players have played FFXIV, but the active playerbase is just over 1 million if you look at things like lucky bancho. so less than 5% of those 28 million are happy and still playing the gsame...

https://i.imgur.com/px8A2G2.png
IF it isn't fun, You're doing it wrong.. content design, job design, homogenization, healers,

Dont forget your roots. Its an RPG and its a FInal Fantasy. XIV is neither of these things

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Actually very wrong. There's a reason the old buzz terms like vocal minority and such don't get used anymore and that reason is because they've been proven to be totally wrong.

companies around the world have invested billions into this research and typically found the so dubbed vocal minority is actually usually not a minority at all..

For every person that has a compalaint. 26 more will have the same complaint but say nothing. and those 26 people will each tell 10 other people about there compalint and potentially turn those people away from your product.

.
.
.

the active playerbase is also significantly less than the advertised playerbase.. the numbers SE tends to publish are how many players have played the game... not how many do.. and if yougo by recent social media stuff 28 million players have played FFXIV, but the active playerbase is just over 1 million if you look at things like lucky bancho. so less than 5% of those 28 million are happy and still playing the gsame...

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I agree with you, but that last paragraph is irrelevant. It's common for companies to flex their total number of players, if you want to follow this logic, it will make every older game seem worse than it is, and make newer games seem better. This fact doesn't represent much, maybe if you had 2 similar games, released at similar time, and both had exact same way of counting players, then you could use it for comparison. Other than that, it doesn't tell us much.



These facts from the source are definitely worth thinking about:

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70% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favour. Source: Lee Resource Inc

95% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint instantly. Source: Lee Resource Inc

Reducing customer defections can boost profits by 25-85%. In 73% of cases, the organization made no attempt to persuade dissatisfied customers to stay; even though 35% said that a simple apology would have prevented them from moving to the competition. Source: NOP

80% of complaints received by an organisation are likely to have poor communication as their root cause, either with the customer or within the organisation itself.
Source: Unknown

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Yes, SE does sometimes listen to feedback, but most of it is very, very late. Living dead was fixed recently, Kaiten is still unsolved, with their reasoning that they'll add something instead being utterly irrelevant, since we still have nothing after 1.5 year. Do they think that those 25% are not worth their time?

Simple apology will be enough for 35% of the people, yet they resort to radio silence instead.

80% of complaints caused by poor communication? Well, it certainly seems that SE is above average in this sense. Do you remember when they said PLD deserves lower damage because he has range in magical phase, or when Yoshi told healers to just play ultimate if they want to have fun? Or when they gave 3 different reasons on why they removed Kaiten?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Actually very wrong. There's a reason the old buzz terms like vocal minority and such don't get used anymore and that reason is because they've been proven to be totally wrong.

companies around the world have invested billions into this research and typically found the so dubbed vocal minority is actually usually not a minority at all..

For every person that has a compalaint. 26 more will have the same complaint but say nothing. and those 26 people will each tell 10 other people about there compalint and potentially turn those people away from your product.

Source
Source

That last part is important. Silence does not equal satisfaction.

Even the SE devs said they learnt this back in the old days.
https://i.imgur.com/NHDNnZU.png

the active playerbase is also significantly less than the advertised playerbase.. the numbers SE tends to publish are how many players have played the game... not how many do.. and if yougo by recent social media stuff 28 million players have played FFXIV, but the active playerbase is just over 1 million if you look at things like lucky bancho. so less than 5% of those 28 million are happy and still playing the gsame...

https://i.imgur.com/px8A2G2.png
IF it isn't fun, You're doing it wrong.. content design, job design, homogenization, healers,

Dont forget your roots. Its an RPG and its a FInal Fantasy. XIV is neither of these things

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Amazing they are not following some of those guidelines that they put up for themselves.

and 20 percent of the forums believe trolls are everywhere in the walls of their house, living rent free in their head, and when they go to sleep titanmans gonna pop out from beneath their bed and grab em!