Suggestion for NIN ability Huraijin

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Not remotely. Adding miti to a greater number of abilities is not asking for the removal of mit.

Moreover, if "normal content..." is so easy as to have "no tank swapping" nor mitigation... how the heck is some attacks having mitigation... a "removal of mit"?

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For like 5th time, whenever you put any effect on the skill that deals damage, skill will be used for the damage only. If Head Graze had 20 potency attached to it, it will be used on CD just like Empyreal Arrow or any other oGCD. What's your argument against that? That it gives you some choice while progging latest ultimate? You simply cannot put reactive effect on top skill that you want to always use on CD. It needs to be separated.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

There isn't anything required of modern normal content. That is NOT the bar to limit a game's potential to.

If anything, that's a reason simply NOT to continue slashing normal content down to pure tedium.

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That's entirely separate issue. Stuff like reprisal is reactive, unlike rest of the rotation, so this can liven up the bland normal content, even though the mitigation is pretty much irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Again, no one remotely optimizing anything had a static OT, because that just means wasting defensives, which would a far, far greater difference more than the self-sustain gap between PLD and other tanks. Idiocy should not be the basis for balancing.

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My entire point was that this used to happen in normal content. You know, just regular DF roulettes and stuff. Back in ShB I had people ask me wtf am I doing, MTing as PLD... in a normal raids. And yes, game shouldn't be designed around idiots, but that boat has already sailed. Now game is designed around completely braindead idiots and then top raiders which want to optimize the fun out of game. Nothing in between. They remove all the nuances and skill expression so the idiots are happy and add guaranteed crits so the parsers are happy too. That was 6.1 SAM rework in nutshell.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

For like 5th time, whenever you put any effect on the skill that deals damage, skill will be used for the damage only. If Head Graze had 20 potency attached to it, it will be used on CD just like Empyreal Arrow or any other oGCD. What's your argument against that? That it gives you some choice while progging latest ultimate? You simply cannot put reactive effect on top skill that you want to always use on CD. It needs to be separated.

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History contradicts your statement.

That literally was not true for Brutal Swing in any content with anything with stunning, Blunt Arrow in any fight with something worth silencing, Shoulder Charge in any fight with knockbacks, etc. No one routinely sacrificed greater rDPS over the fight just to use their attacks on cooldown. Attacks were used only as attacks, when there was literally no other use for them.

Not everything needs to be used on CD. The goal is the total effect that can be produced from one's toolkit, not just cast per fights.

It's only when a game is dumbed down to oblivion that optimization becomes literally only "hit it the moment you can hit it / mash da button".

If you don't like that the game is so shallowed out, then why insist on leaving encounters so featureless / any non-rDPS utility so irrelevant?

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And yes, game shouldn't be designed around idiots, but that boat has already sailed.

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Then what is the point of even discussing anything if (that's to be used an excuse that) nothing can be done anyways?

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guaranteed crits so the parsers are happy too. That was 6.1 SAM rework in nutshell.

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Guaranteed crits hurt actual parse-farmers, since they can no longer have as high of highs, making it more difficult to separate their no-life-ing from more casual but skilled players. No, guaranteed crits were for your more casual players and to increase the tightness available for DPS checks. Moreover, none of that had to do with the simplifications to the job itself: they could as easily have just made Kaiten grant the an auto-crit instead of +50% damage.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That literally was not true for Brutal Swing in any content with anything with stunning, Blunt Arrow in any fight with something worth silencing, Shoulder Charge in any fight with knockbacks, etc. No one routinely sacrificed greater rDPS over the fight just to use their attacks on cooldown. Attacks were used only as attacks, when there was literally no other use for them.

Not everything needs to be used on CD. The goal is the total effect that can be produced from one's toolkit, not just cast per fights.

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But there are no stuns needed, nothing to interrupt and some knockback mechanics even overrule CC resist nowadays.

Everything needs to be used on CD in current meta. Otherwise you get misaligned, and now your oGCDs are all over the place. It sure would be nice if it wasn't like that, but it is.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If you don't like that the game is so shallowed out, then why insist on leaving encounters so featureless / any non-rDPS utility so irrelevant?

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But I'm not saying that utilities are irrelevant, quite the opposite. I'm saying they will become irrelevant once they're tied to yet another damage buttons. Only way to make MIT+damage button a good thing is making it deal more damage, depending on damage mitigated. Maybe make it really interesting and make skill X which deals 200 flat potency, gives 10% mit which lasts 5s, but only works on one hit. Depending on damage mitigated, deals up to extra 600 potency (numbers are just random of course). Basically a Third Eye with extra steps. This also has multiple ways to expand upon.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then what is the point of even discussing anything if (that's to be used an excuse that) nothing can be done anyways?

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Idk, I just like discussing random stuff I guess. If they didn't listen to all the Kaiten complaints, they won't listen to anything but to things they want to hear.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

But there are no stuns needed, nothing to interrupt and some knockback mechanics even overrule CC resist nowadays.

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I'm asking for mitigation, not CC; I merely pointed out a historical example that contradicts your assertion that even single-hit/TB mitigation would never be held for even a second so long as there were any offensive potency attached to it. As long as there is greater rDPS for holding it, players actually engaged with any decent degree of optimization will hold it.

Just as they used to even on purely offensive CD-attacks before we made everything align automatically.

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Only way to make MIT+damage button a good thing is making it deal more damage, depending on damage mitigated.

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That's far from the only way (again, you need only for situational rDPS advantages to frequently outcompete the advantage of just hitting things on CD), but I agree your general design insight here.