Please stop putting the Crystalline Conflict Glamour Coffer at Rank 25

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

From the same forum that brough you "There Are no Grinds comes the new production "This is too Grindy"

https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5aca...5481ad/1x.webp

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Anything is grindy to a limsa afker, thus why the game probably shouldn't take gameplay feedback from them :)

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Originally Posted by Duskane

just set yourself small goals
5-10 games a day or every other day no need to rush

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This is basically what I do. 10 games if I'm feeling motivated, 5 if I'm not.

Why tho?

You can just do your frontline roullette once a day and you'll get there eventually before the new season comes out.

Did that during the last season as well as with the current one.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This is basically what I do. 10 games if I'm feeling motivated, 5 if I'm not.

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When it comes to a grind, I'm either fully committed, or I don't bother at all. CC series grinds I basically just go all in until it's done, provided I have the incentive. That's just how I operate. I've tried to take my time before, but my mind keeps telling me "DO IT. DO IT NOW!" lol I know it's healthier for my mental state to do it casually, but when I am focused on something, I literally can't do anything else.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

When it comes to a grind, I'm either fully committed, or I don't bother at all. CC series grinds I basically just go all in until it's done, provided I have the incentive. That's just how I operate. I've tried to take my time before, but my mind keeps telling me "DO IT. DO IT NOW!" lol I know it's healthier for my mental state to do it casually, but when I am focused on something, I literally can't do anything else.

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Same, you feel a sense of relief and pride when you acquire the item you wanted and grinded for so long. Happened to me when I initially didn’t want to grind Eureka since no rewards interested me, then when I was looking to make a tank glam that would look close to a garlean highly ranked soldier, I just couldn’t help but dive in it until I’d get the chest piece.

I hated Pyros but the rest was ok. Was a more fun experience compared to Bozja.

It is so easy to get to rank 25 before you lose the ability to claim the reward, I would actually increase the level required to get it from 25. I would definitely also add some additional ways to cash in the crystals which would keep people interested in joining - given a fair number of people get to rank 25 in a short or extremely short period of time.

As others have already mentioned, there are multiple ways to rank up, no single mode is perfect, and I certainly agree that some improvements are overdue - however if someone really detests PVP, there are multiple other achievements to be had, I would really rather not have the PVP achievements made meaningless in the interests of "accessibility".

As a PvP Andy, I am loving these responses.

I love having armor nobody else has, or people like OP are too lazy or whiny to get.

I personally love how gated it is. Because then I won't see a bunch of "casuals" wearing it, which takes out the enjoyment of PVP-exclusive armor.

It's like how Corrupted Ashbringer stopped being cool once everybody got one in Legion.

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Originally Posted by MahthildisMMORPG

As a PvP Andy, I am loving these responses.

I love having armor nobody else has, or people like OP are too lazy or whiny to get.

I personally love how gated it is. Because then I won't see a bunch of "casuals" wearing it, which takes out the enjoyment of PVP-exclusive armor.

It's like how Corrupted Ashbringer stopped being cool once everybody got one in Legion.

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I feel like people seem to forget that a reward is a lot more enjoyable and valued when you obtain it through your time and effort for it. I dont like how people's mentality is always about needing everything to be a given or everything needing to be as accessible as possible.

Heck I think people confuse accessible with "participation". PvP is extremely accessible, even obtaining the series exp is not gated behind any actual effort to be victorious in matches. Its literally them wanting you participating in pvp matches to get the reward.

This is just reminding me that I never did finish getting the other two Garo mounts. I should go back to that at some point.

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Originally Posted by MahthildisMMORPG

As a PvP Andy, I am loving these responses.

I love having armor nobody else has, or people like OP are too lazy or whiny to get.

I personally love how gated it is. Because then I won't see a bunch of "casuals" wearing it, which takes out the enjoyment of PVP-exclusive armor.

It's like how Corrupted Ashbringer stopped being cool once everybody got one in Legion.

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Same! I think the game should have way more exclusive stuff. Not only does it allow it to age faster, it will also undermine the whole "character expression" bs. There's nothing I hate more than this game and it's shitty playerbase!

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I feel like people seem to forget that a reward is a lot more enjoyable and valued when you obtain it through your time and effort for it. I dont like how people's mentality is always about needing everything to be a given or everything needing to be as accessible as possible.

Heck I think people confuse accessible with "participation". PvP is extremely accessible, even obtaining the series exp is not gated behind any actual effort to be victorious in matches. Its literally them wanting you participating in pvp matches to get the reward.

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Agreed. Unlike some other games, it isn't gated behind PVP gear, minimum PVP rank, a quest series, or a pre-made. There's is no skill requirement at all as you aren't even required to win. You just need to enter, and the time investment is spread out over an extremely generous period as pointed out previously.

Anyone who reading any "gating" into this is deluding themselves, it's the equivalent of saying that you can't get some seasonal event glamor because you be bothered to talk to an NPC during an event that lasted 2 weeks: there's no skill involved and plenty of time to do it.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

just set yourself small goals
5-10 games a day or every other day no need to rush

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Tf is this small goal? There is no need at all.

I agree that putting it at rank 25 is a bit too much. Perhaps shifting the reward to a lower rank or reducing the number of points to advance per rank would help?

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

I have completed S2 under 5h of gameplay time. It was pretty fast. Ofc I dont count quee times. Yeah, it takes longer if you lose most matches, but still. Its way too quick to count it as "long grind".

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mythomania and denial in progress...

The reductive sentiment that “it’s fine for me, so it should be fine for everyone and if not too bad” is just a lovely demonstration of toxicity in this game’s community. So let me be clear, just because you don’t have any issues with something doesn’t mean it’s unassailable or that other people can’t have grievances with it. Remember the goal is to make things enjoyable for as many people as possible.

At present, it takes significantly too much time investment to reach Series Rank 25. This isn’t a problem for people who enjoy PvP or are even relatively neutral towards it, but for people who don’t enjoy the PvP this is an extremely tedious and frustrating experience. There are a few different methods to reach Series Rank 25 but the most optimal method is through CC matches, with each lasting, on average, about 5 minutes. Some will end before overtime but not all of them. Then add an additional average of 2 minutes to account for loading, queue times, and pre-game and you get ~7 minutes per match. Now we’ll assume a roughly even 50/50 split of wins to losses to account for XP gain. Since you need 108,000 XP from SR1 to SR25, that’s 68 wins and 68 losses, totalling over 15 hours. Even if you were able to ensure the fastest possible games every single time without fail and win them, you’d still be faced with ~4 minute matches for a total of 120 matches in 8 hours. Anyone who claims reaching SR25 in any less time than that is a liar, and that is an extraordinarily unrealistic time as is.

So the expected range of the Series XP grind is typically in the range of 12-16 hours, varying based on factors that simply aren’t completely within your control, like the skill of teammates, opponents, queue times, etc. The irony is even a match you win can be suboptimal compared to a match you lose if that winning match pushes into overtime and the losing match ends in the first pull. You are actually incentivized more to lose quickly than to win in a heated match.

Now there’s also a repeated claim that people want things for free. This is silly. Nobody is saying the PvP rewards should be mailed to their Delivery Moogle on login the second a new Series launches. But to be expected to commit easily 12-16 hours to strictly PvP within a 4-5 month time frame is an insulting and blatant disrespect of a player’s time from a developer who routinely dares to suggest people take breaks. To follow this up, there’s the argument that people don’t have to do it but this is also a silly one given the limited time they’re made available. There are emotes, mounts, glams, all locked behind Series progression, with no indication they’ll ever be released again in another fashion. If you don’t get it when you can you may never be able to get it again. It’s the most basic form of FOMO and it’s utterly contradictory to Yoshida’s aforementioned statements.

My suggestions are as follows:

• Provide bonus Series XP for personal performance. Everything from time on the point, to kills, to healing provided, to damage dealt. This would provide an incentive for better performance from all participants and make matches that last longer naturally provide better XP.
• Remove staggered Series XP to reach new levels up to SR25. This would mean each Series Rank would be a flat 2000 XP until reaching 25, reducing the XP necessary from 108,000 to 50,000, cutting the grind time in half from 12-16 hours to 6-8 hours and making it much more manageable. If there were a concern regarding Trophy Crystals, they could be reduced to 500 from 1000 on every reward stage to compensate for this change. Additionally, by shortening the grind to SR25 it may leave an incentive to play beyond it for more Trophy Crystals, which I would also suggest the XP for which is reduced to half of its current 10,000 / 20,000 progression.
• Reintroduce former Series rewards and make them purchasable with Trophy Crystals. Old Series rewards could be put up every 2 new Series. So Series 2 rewards would be made available when Series 4 goes live and Series 3 rewards would be made available when Series 5 goes live and so on, with Series 1 rewards being made available right away. This allows items to retain their exclusivity for a time and keeps the incentive to progress through each PvP Series for Trophy Crystals even at your own pace, removing FOMO. The rewards should be staggered in price, with SR5 rewards costing 2000 Trophy Crystals, SR10 costing 4000, SR15 costing 6000, SR20 costing 8000, and SR25 costing 10,000, the same as one of the Hellhound Weapon glams.

These changes do not negatively affect current PvP enthusiasts at all. If anything the increased accessibility and incentivization of personal performance would draw more people into PvP and have them participating at a higher level than the current system. It also doesn’t give anybody anything for free, still requiring participation in PvP content to get the rewards. Unrelated to the Series system, CC should also absolutely have a mode available for premade parties, which, on a related note, could help elevate the spirits of people pushing for SR25 through the fun of playing with friends.

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Originally Posted by Trifecta739

The reductive sentiment that “it’s fine for me, so it should be fine for everyone and if not too bad” is just a lovely demonstration of toxicity in this game’s community. So let me be clear, just because you don’t have any issues with something doesn’t mean it’s unassailable or that other people can’t have grievances with it. Remember the goal is to make things enjoyable for as many people as possible.

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I just wanted to say thanks for such a well-written and thoughtful response!

I especially liked your analysis into how the SR25 time-grind doesn't really line up with Yoshida's "play other games" philosophy (nicely backed-up with numbers & calculations), and how when that grind is mixed together with the "fear of missing out"/FOMO problem it just makes the situation that much worse.

I'm just hoping that someone working on FFXIV's PvP sees your suggestions & changes!

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Originally Posted by Trifecta739

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so much words when all you wanted to say was "weee, why me no get reward for logging in weeee"

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Originally Posted by Loloro

I just wanted to say thanks for such a well-written and thoughtful response!

I especially liked your analysis into how the SR25 time-grind doesn't really line up with Yoshida's "play other games" philosophy (nicely backed-up with numbers & calculations), and how when that grind is mixed together with the "fear of missing out"/FOMO problem it just makes the situation that much worse.

I'm just hoping that someone working on FFXIV's PvP sees your suggestions & changes!

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neither does the housing demolition timer, or events that may or may not return that happen while you might not be subbed. In the end he doesnt care what you do, as long as you are subbed.

Not to forget, it's also for getting CC currency to buy the slightly touched up Crystal Tower Alliance Raid gear, which also is dyeable.

So no matter what you do, you get small things along the way to keep you motivated and rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Trifecta739

The reductive sentiment that “it’s fine for me, so it should be fine for everyone and if not too bad” is just a lovely demonstration of toxicity in this game’s community. So let me be clear, just because you don’t have any issues with something doesn’t mean it’s unassailable or that other people can’t have grievances with it. Remember the goal is to make things enjoyable for as many people as possible.

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It's an extension of "I suffered so other people should too". Funny how people want to apply that logic to certain things and are vehemently against it on others.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's an extension of "I suffered so other people should too". Funny how people want to apply that logic to certain things and are vehemently against it on others.

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Its more "I worked hard and want to show people my work".

Maybe don't do the content and forget about the glam?

Don't tell me you had made thread about not been able to Get ULTIMATE weapons too because only like a percentage do the content.
You don't have to get everything and I'd that is your goal than you must do the content

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's an extension of "I suffered so other people should too". Funny how people want to apply that logic to certain things and are vehemently against it on others.

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No, it's an extension of " I want every achievement in the game, whether I like the content or not, or (potentially)if it's even above my skill ceiling" under the guise of accessibility.

if I framed the argument under "please hand me an Ultimate weapon, doing the content is frustrating/soul-destroying/exhausting" I would be told (rightfully) that I should invest the time into earning it, it's supposed to be that way.

If a number of people point out that PVP rewards can be gained a number of ways, gradually over a reasonable timespan (months) , and over a comparably much lower time investment than let's say a Savage tier- we're accused of being "toxic".

can i say "git gud"?

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Originally Posted by Trifecta739

So the expected range of the Series XP grind is typically in the range of 12-16 hours, varying based on factors that simply aren’t completely within your control, like the skill of teammates, opponents, queue times, etc. The irony is even a match you win can be suboptimal compared to a match you lose if that winning match pushes into overtime and the losing match ends in the first pull. You are actually incentivized more to lose quickly than to win in a heated match.

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To put this into context, assume 4 months, 30 days a month and you have 2 hours a day to play. That is a total of 240 hours in that period you have to play. Going worst case, 16 hours in total, that is just under 7% (6.666....%) of the total time you have, which, if you use that and work out how much time per day you need to commit, it works out to 8 minutes a day, which is a little over 1 match per day (as per your numbers). Though, I find, once you have queued and finish a match, if you queue again, the queue time is much shorter, meaning you can essentially wipe out the queue times for consecutive matches, results may vary by DC.

So, 2 matches a day, or ~14 minutes a day, you will complete before the 4 months is over. That isn't much of a time investment when you actually break it down.

The only reason people complain is the fact it is a limited time. I guarantee, if it wasn't a limited time thing and the items were available at a later date, noone would care.

Can I atleast have more options of consumables to be bought with trophy crystals and wolf marks? I have Grade 8 Dark Matter coming out of my ears.

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Originally Posted by AetherHale

Its more "I worked hard and want to show people my work".

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And 90-95% of the players don't care about how hard you worked for a personal achievement.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

No, it's an extension of " I want every achievement in the game, whether I like the content or not, or (potentially)if it's even above my skill ceiling" under the guise of accessibility.

if I framed the argument under "please hand me an Ultimate weapon, doing the content is frustrating/soul-destroying/exhausting" I would be told (rightfully) that I should invest the time into earning it, it's supposed to be that way.

If a number of people point out that PVP rewards can be gained a number of ways, gradually over a reasonable timespan (months) , and over a comparably much lower time investment than let's say a Savage tier- we're accused of being "toxic".

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There is literally zero skill ceiling to the battlepass rewards because you can obtain them all eventually losing every single match or playing casual in CC.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Can I atleast have more options of consumables to be bought with trophy crystals and wolf marks? I have Grade 8 Dark Matter coming out of my ears.

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This is my situation as well. I've essentially run out of things to buy via wolf marks / wolf collars.

Skill issue.

It sounds like you want midcore/hardcore content with casual/little effort. I would suggest moving on and obtaining different items/glams.

I don't think that 15 hours in 4 months are too much. How many hours are you spending in dungeons, raids, trials in 4 months.
I guess there are quite a few people who spend an hour or more in dungeons everyday who also say 5 minutes PvP a day is too much.

The battle pass rewards are not a skill issue and it'd be disingenuous to believe it so. You can lose every single match and pretty much netflix and chill your way to the reward. The battle pass rewards are a time sink and nothing more. There is no skill involved only however much time SE or the community feels it's worth wasting X amount of time of your life to get. The skill is getting it done quicker and that's it. Time commitments are not a skill issue on their own. The top 100 rewards, however, are absolutely a skill issue.

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Originally Posted by BeyondTheCurse

Essentially the title.

I know you want people to play PvP so it wasn't a waste of development cost, but putting it at Rank 25, and making the ranks take more EXP every 5 ranks is shite.

I hate PvP in most games, I know it wasn't made for me, but with people who want to play other games, do IRL shit, and suffering through the myriad of shite through the Crystalline conflict (Getting Oneshot, getting stunned locked for the 100th time, teams who don't group up, heals not going off cause of server tick etc) is just not fun.

No Matter how cool the next CC Glam is, I ain't going through this shite again lol

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Here's a thought.... Don't pvp then? You don't have to own every piece of glamour in the game ya know.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Here's a thought.... Don't pvp then? You don't have to own every piece of glamour in the game ya know.

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Or if you really want that glam, then please actually put in the effort to get it. Its the whole reason why rewards exist.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

I think this sums it up perfectly. The only problem I have with the PvP rewards is that they are FOMO based.

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At least they've hinted that they might bring those rewards back later. Should be for the currency equivalent of a full season, imho.

It’s not hard to understand, it is meant to be an incentive for regular participation and somewhat short queue times throughout the season. It’ doesn’t require much time or work (maybe 15 mins a day or so) to get there. Without that, it’s clear from this thread that people would just take the rewards early on and not pvp again till the next season.

I just wish there was more to spend the pvp currencies on. Atm, I got all the glamours I wanted so it is ventures, food duration extensions and glamour prisms but that’s a bit boring.

lmao this is why this game is so boring now

Man, getting some strong Rival Wings deja vu.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Same! I think the game should have way more exclusive stuff. Not only does it allow it to age faster, it will also undermine the whole "character expression" bs. There's nothing I hate more than this game and it's shitty playerbase!

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Yikes.

Yet you don't see me whining on how I don't have ultimate weapons. *Eye roll*

When you earn something, your character is expressed through that feat of strength. It is your story to tell and makes you unique.

My character fought valiantly and was granted the armor, it is part of my characters history, and this history allows me to express my character. Just how endgame players can flesh out their character and show their individuality for having end game glam. Glam that I couldn't even imagine obtaining.

If it takes no skill, then why are you people complaining. Get it then. Casuals love to trivialize and beg for content they don't even play.

Imagine a company nerfing PvP to make it more accessible and making the armor practically participation trophies, yet y'all still complain because you don't want to participate. Cope.

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Originally Posted by Trifecta739

The reductive sentiment that “it’s fine for me, so it should be fine for everyone and if not too bad” is just a lovely demonstration of toxicity in this game’s community. So let me be clear, just because you don’t have any issues with something doesn’t mean it’s unassailable or that other people can’t have grievances with it. Remember the goal is to make things enjoyable for as many people as possible.


These changes do not negatively affect current PvP enthusiasts at all. If anything the increased accessibility and incentivization of personal performance would draw more people into PvP and have them participating at a higher level than the current system. It also doesn’t give anybody anything for free.

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No thanks, I don't want to see everyone and their mother wearing the Archfiend armor. I worked hard for my set, and it's special. It does affect us because it makes our efforts in vain, and it gives zero incentive to do the content when they are giving out like forking hot cakes. I will gladly uninstall if they pull that crap by re adding it back for players who don't even like PvP.

Y'all can have your ultimate weapons, mounts and end game glam, let us have our PvP armor and mounts.

It's a shame that both WoW and FFXIV (Mostly) casual players share the same entitled "I wasn't here or able to get it, it's too hard. I don't like this content yet I somehow deserve it" mentality. Same people who ask to add back Ahead of the Curve mounts, PvP mounts/transmog, Legion Artifact skins, and certain titles. Same shit, different game.

If you don't even like PvP then you shouldn't feel entitled to it, if you want it, then put in the damn work. People who actually enjoy it and put the time deserve with, people who don't, do not. Sorry, gatekeep girl boss moment, I had to. And stop trying to make it more accessible, because if that's the case, make Ultimates and end game more accessible. Bad enough they removed the armor sets and mounts from ranked. But nobody talks about how only the small percent of the player base has end game crap, but the moment PvP rewards became dumbed down and super easy to get for the "casual" player, and removed from rank. People still complain, so ungrateful.

Non-PvP players are so entitled and want to ruin everything for us, I swear. We can't have crap. PvP is already shit and don't have team que in ranked because of y'all, stop trying to make it objectively worse.

For as long as this PvP session has lasted, I could have gotten the current glam outfit in it on several of my alts already if I just did CC at least three times every other day.

My only complaint is that older CC rewards should be added for the lower tier rewards, so they aren't seemingly lost forever.