Is it time for yoshi to step down from ff14?

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

Aveyond, let me genuinely ask you: what do you love or like about FFXIV?

No snark, nor jokes from me. I really want to know. There has to be something you like for you to keep paying a sub and dedicating threads to fixing the problems you believe are present in the game.

I don't want to derail the thread, though. If you want, you could always make a new thread or add-on to an old one. ;)

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Not to mention time spent writing fan fiction and brainstorming new complaints. lol

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

looks some thing clearly do not go well when the biggest and most active topics here are "What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker" (on page 807) and "Was any of the 6.3 content worth waiting 4 months for?" (on page 43).
i must say 6.0 was a total fail of a story for me but i like the current one even if in 6.3 they dropped the balls on it. 6.3 in it self so far is a boring mess. yes the content we got is fun for the first run of it. then what you do for the next 4+ month? will deep dungeon last longer that a weak? will the relic grind be good? and even then how tis supposed to last 4+ month?
the formula works so far onlly as there no new GOOD mmo out in the life time of ff14. if lets say blue protocol (or any new mmo) be a good mmo ff14 will see a nose dive in players. they need to make a more lasting content and the one that don't want to do it is yoshi. he did openly Sayed it more that one time

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All of this is largely a vocal minority opinion.
While most would probably agree Shadowbringers was better than Endwalker in many ways, and there's definitely areas to gripe about, there's hardly a pattern of decline here.
The story is largely subjective, and the difference in format of things like Relic, Deep Dungeon, Criterion and Island Sanctuary, is simply them trying new things and listening to player feedback. We've been asking for a new Deep Dungeon, players have asked for a traditional relic grind instead of locking it behind exploratory zones like Bozja, and players have been asking for harder dungeon content.

Yoshida earned getting to do whatever he wants. Personally though I think it would be really interesting for FFXIV to have a new vision from new leadership while Yoshida focuses on whatever is next, be it a next-gen MMO or another single-player FF like XVI. But if he wants to spend the rest of his career on XIV it will happen, I just hope he doesn't keep the same damn content patterns for its entire lifetime.

I really dislike the idea that because YoshiP saved 14 during 1.0 that he's this infallible being that is beyond criticism that a lot of people seem to have about him. At the risk of sounding like certain individuals, I do think YoshiP is a bit out of touch with his playerbase. As someone else said, look at his disconnect with the healer role, or how he shocked pikachu face'd on April 1st's hrothgar hair reveal. I don't think he's running the game into the ground by any means, but there are unfortunately issues.

I think the guy did a great and wonderful job of saving 14. I also think he's working with severe mismanagement issues because Square Enix while at the same time having to juggle a lot (FF16). The guy has a lot on his plate and like any normal person, it's probably running him ragged.

I don't think he should be replaced, but I do think it'd be in 14's best interest (and maybe his own?) for him to be relegated to one game and for Square to actually freaking listen to what he needs for 14 if that's the one that's chosen (proper funding for one). Personally, I'd rather have him on 14 since he genuinely cares about the game, even if some of the things he does and says is... highly disagreeable.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Yoshida earned getting to do whatever he wants.

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This is a very dangerous mindset to have for game developers oh my word.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

People like to Tell Themselves that YoshiP should go away and we need a New Guy.....
But like, how do we know that somebody else wouldn't be Worse then YoshiP?

Dislike the guy all you want, but remember that he saved the game from where it was previously, plus the game is still doing great despite. And from what I hear, it is the Biggest Money Maker for SE Right Now.
You want that to go away for...what exactly? What is another new guy going to do better then YoshiP?

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It wouldn't even be one person. You get rid of Yoshida you have two spots to fill. So would two new people do a better job than Yoshida or do worse? Some here forget that Yoshida holds two rolls. Heck he's even said he'd welcome someone to take over one of those rolls. That he knows it's not normal for someone to hold both the producer and director role for a game.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I really dislike the idea that because YoshiP saved 14 during 1.0 that he's this infallible being that is beyond criticism that a lot of people seem to have about him. At the risk of sounding like certain individuals, I do think YoshiP is a bit out of touch with his playerbase. As someone else said, look at his disconnect with the healer role, or how he shocked pikachu face'd on April 1st's hrothgar hair reveal. I don't think he's running the game into the ground by any means, but there are unfortunately issues.

I think the guy did a great and wonderful job of saving 14. I also think he's working with severe mismanagement issues because Square Enix while at the same time having to juggle a lot (FF16). The guy has a lot on his plate and like any normal person, it's probably running him ragged.

I don't think he should be replaced, but I do think it'd be in 14's best interest (and maybe his own?) for him to be relegated to one game and for Square to actually freaking listen to what he needs for 14 if that's the one that's chosen (proper funding for one).




This is a very dangerous mindset to have for game developers oh my word.

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Except despite all the complaining here, the "playerbase" keeps growing with every expansion. So how out of touch is he?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Except despite all the complaining here, the "playerbase" keeps growing with every expansion. So how out of touch is he?

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Those two things aren't mutually exclusive though? Overall the game is good, hence why the playerbase keeps growing. But he can still be a bit out of touch regarding certain aspects of the game, you know, the parts of the game that ARE suffering.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Just cuz you're good developer, does not mean you're a good director of the entire operation.

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as the team is 100% developers.-_-

This right here? This is how you get stuck with Tanaka again or Nomura. Trust me. You don't want that. Yoshi P may make mistakes and at times not have an agreeing idea with the playerbase but uh... as others have said he is the sole reason that Square Enix is still even around.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

as the team is 100% developers.-_-

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This mindset is how WoW ended up with Ion.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

I think its a problem at the top of Square and not Yoshi P. If anything, Our current production and development staff is the sole reason this is like their only successful game in recent memory XD. And of course they pull Yoshi P and some FF14 resources for FF16...

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no no out side of how much funds the game gets its 100% yoshi's game.

Yes.

He's an amazing dev and certainly pulling ARR from the brink of death is a great accomplishment. He has a rare mindset when it comes to putting players first. But he clearly needs a break. He's been working non-stop on FF14 for a decade and now has two projects going on at once and that's enough to wear out anyone. Years of listening to complaints, even legitimate ones when you're working flat out, is going to pull you down eventually and build a gradual resentment and it's clear he's reaching that point. There are hints of it in Live Letters. He's also running out of fresh ideas and is too attached to his big project to risk innovation or big changes to it. And sadly arrogance can creep in even with the best people and after a decade he's developed an "I know best" attitude regarding the game, with the spike in subs from WoW falling flat just reinforcing this mindset. This is where developers stop making a game for the players and end up making it for themselves.

He did amazing, but it'd be healthier both for Yoshida and the game if he stepped back and took some free time off.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Except despite all the complaining here, the "playerbase" keeps growing with every expansion. So how out of touch is he?

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The game has been growing and there's been a lot of good things said about it. That said, there's also quite a lot that's been neglected in the past and has since been festering. There are topics that Square Enix didn't even address until it was too late. Responses have been tone-deaf, not realizing that people had been complaining for a while and end up giving answers that they wouldn't have given had they been paying attention.

For me and a lot of Hrothgar players, nothing embodies it more than April 1st. Him going dork-faced at the reaction the community gave was stupid. Anyone would have realized it was coming, because Hrothgars, who didn't have a single update in 3 years, had been asking for attention all the while. Meanwhile, communication was heavily centered around Viera, mentions of updates were focused around making stuff for Viera, and Hrothgar were only ever mentioned in conjunction with Viera rather than addressing complaints Hrothgar players themselves were giving. Stuff that Viera players didn't have to deal with (their awkward posture and animations, the glamours that they couldn't use which are a different list than Viera, and even the fact that to change hairstyle we needed to pay a fantasia).

Others will point to different scenarios, such as him dismissing the lore, him telling Healers to play Ultimates if they wanted a bigger challenge...

Those are two separate realities: the game is growing while there is stuff being awkwardly addressed about the game.

And even if the game is growing... so what? Just because people admit Yoshida is lacking in touch with the game's fanbase, it doesn't mean that people inherently believe the game sucks and isn't growing. One statement doesn't mean the other. I can be fine with the game and support Yoshida while still saying "You're out of touch, please be more mindful".

I personally don't think he should leave or be replaced. Have some of his responsabilites be delegated to someone else? Possibly. But gone entirely? Absolutely not. And it's not just because of 1.0, it's because Yoshida just isn't as bad as people claim he is. Square Enix has far, far worse. Other game companies have far, far worse. Yoshida might do things we disagree with and have some stuff we'd like rectified, but he's certainly not as bad as his colleagues in other Creative Business Divisions...
But he should at least strive to do better than what he's been doing the past year or so. Because the latest appearances have left much to be desired.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

if you look around the problem in 1.0 was that SE forced a bad engine that the team did not wanted to use, then SE management force a strange game game loop to cover the fact the the game was short and not much end game

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And following that thought, SE would be the ones to name Yoshi-P's replacement. So even by this logic things would end up worse.

Is the man perfect? No, hell, no. But he's also stopped many a worse thing to happen to FFXIV (The Mog Store was a demand from SE to let him reboot the game, and he fought tooth and nail to keep it from being invasive. It wasn't until the players themselves asked for a way to try on store items that he allowed the dreamfitting in-game, and even then it doesn't encourage you or even allow you to buy from inside the game itself).

At the end of the day, SE is a company that cares about profits, the devs may care about their individual projects, but they're beholden to their own higher-ups and Yoshi-P's had to walk a very fine line between keeping investors happy and keeping the playerbase happy. It's led to some compromises I'm not entirely happy about, but certainly not enough to try my chances at whoever Yosuke Matsuda decides to put in and start selling NFTs inside the game.

No but they could hire people to dye mogstation costumes and give us the damn hairs.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

The game has been growing and there's been a lot of good things said about it. That said, there's also quite a lot that's been neglected in the past and has since been festering. There are topics that Square Enix didn't even address until it was too late. Responses have been tone-deaf, not realizing that people had been complaining for a while and end up giving answers that they wouldn't have given had they been paying attention.

For me and a lot of Hrothgar players, nothing embodies it more than April 1st. Him going dork-faced at the reaction the community gave was stupid. Anyone would have realized it was coming, because Hrothgars, who didn't have a single update in 3 years, had been asking for attention all the while. Meanwhile, communication was heavily centered around Viera, mentions of updates were focused around making stuff for Viera, and Hrothgar were only ever mentioned in conjunction with Viera rather than addressing complaints Hrothgar players themselves were giving. Stuff that Viera players didn't have to deal with (their awkward posture and animations, the glamours that they couldn't use which are a different list than Viera, and even the fact that to change hairstyle we needed to pay a fantasia).

Others will point to different scenarios, such as him dismissing the lore, him telling Healers to play Ultimates if they wanted a bigger challenge...

Those are two separate realities: the game is growing while there is stuff being awkwardly addressed about the game.

And even if the game is growing... so what? Just because people admit Yoshida is lacking in touch with the game's fanbase, it doesn't mean that people inherently believe the game sucks and isn't growing. One statement doesn't mean the other. I can be fine with the game and support Yoshida while still saying "You're out of touch, please be more mindful".

I personally don't think he should leave or be replaced. Have some of his responsabilites be delegated to someone else? Possibly. But gone entirely? Absolutely not. And it's not just because of 1.0, it's because Yoshida just isn't as bad as people claim he is. Square Enix has far, far worse. Other game companies have far, far worse. Yoshida might do things we disagree with and have some stuff we'd like rectified, but he's certainly not as bad as his colleagues in other Creative Business Divisions...
But he should at least strive to do better than what he's been doing the past year or so. Because the latest appearances have left much to be desired.

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I mean, every MMO game I've ever played had complaints about this or that, things players view as "tone-death". Every mmo has people on forums saying the devs aren't in touch with the community or doesn't listen to it. Name me one that meets with universal praise and good-will? Most are hemorrhaging players and their peak popularity is behind them.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

if you look around the problem in 1.0 was that SE forced a bad engine that the team did not want to use, then SE management force a strange game loop to cover the fact the game was short and not much end game

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Yea... No. That wasn't even close to the problems 1.0 had. 1.0 failed because it was bad from the top down. The graphic engine was just one of the many many issues.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Yea... No. That wasn't even close to the problems 1.0 had.

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Considering we are still having issues with the engine today... is it that far from the truth? You wanna elaborate on why they're wrong instead of just saying "that's wrong"? I'd actually be interested in hearing it, knowledge is great yo.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Considering we are still having issues with the engine today... is it that far from the truth? You wanna elaborate on why they're wrong instead of just saying "that's wrong"? I'd actually be interested in hearing it, knowledge is great yo.

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Well lets see, the zone where just copy and paste. There was no quest, no jobs, no NPCs outside the city, no direction. The combat system was nothing like it is today. These were failure of the Development team, not the game engine. It felt like they wanted to make a sandbox MMO but had no idea what a sandbox MMO was about. Feel free to search the internet for more in-depth information.

FYI, compared to 1.0 engine the current one we have runs like a dream.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well lets see, the zone where just copy and paste. There was no quest, no jobs, no NPCs outside the city, no direction. The combat system was nothing like it is today. These were failure of the Development team, not the game engine. It felt like they wanted to make a sandbox MMO but had no idea what a sandbox MMO was about. Feel free to search the internet for more in-depth information.

FYI, compared to 1.0 engine the current one we have runs like a dream.

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BUT, it was very very pretty with no quests, no jobs, no npcs.... if your system could even run it.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

BUT, it was very very pretty with no quests, no jobs, no npcs.... if your system could even run it.

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LOL, that it was. I remember my long empty run to Coerthas in search of the "missing" game content. Pretty but bland.

Until FFXIV is actually failing so hard in every way possible then no, I dont think Yoshida needs to step down considering its continued general success.

Youre demanding absolute perfection at this point which is very unrealistic in the gaming industry. Compared to other developers like Ion, its so easy to forget how good we actually have it.

Is this bait? Seems like bait.
But anyway, maybe the only person keeping this game alive should step down. That is, if you wish for it to get burned into the ground, then sure, maybe he should hand over the reigns to some other loyal squeenix exec who will milk it with even more invasive MTX and who knows, maybe even NFT's, until it dies. If you've been alive for longer than a day then you'd know what usually happens to projects when a lead with passion gets replaced with corpos.

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Originally Posted by DomesticBabylon

Is this bait? Seems like bait.
But anyway, maybe the only person keeping this game alive should step down. That is, if you wish for it to get burned into the ground, then sure, maybe he should hand over the reigns to some other loyal squeenix exec who will milk it with even more invasive MTX and who knows, maybe even NFT's, until it dies. If you've been alive for longer than a day then you'd know what usually happens to projects when a lead with passion gets replaced with corpos.

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The funny thing is unrealistically believing that the replacement would answer all of their prayers

Answer: No.

Here's what all of you who want to see the current Producer discharged can do:

Purchase shares in Square Enix, enough to be able to take over the company. Then fire him. Then explain to the other shareholders why the company is in ruins because you thought you were capable of running a company anywhere except into the ground.

All of the <blah blah blah> in the world is meaningless. Vent elsewhere. I hear Twitter is a great place for doing just that these days.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The funny thing is unrealistically believing that the replacement would answer all of their prayers

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More likely than not it would make things worse.

We can only hope that when FFXVI is finished 100% that Yoshi is able to refocus on XIV and revitalize it with new content.

Most of what's implemented into the game comes from the different teams building the game. Yoshi-P is not an emperor that decides everything in the game on a whim, and he has mentioned it. People usually show him what they've made and he goes yay or nay or change this a bit but I feel it's a bit of a misconception that putting someone else in there would change everything. They're making this game out of love, but sadly even things made with love are not always enjoyable for everyone.

What I really wish if they opened a better place for feedback. Maybe they could send surveys via e.mail with questions such as "Do you enjoy Healer?" and "Would you like if Healer was more complex?" and stuff like that. Maybe an open AMA here, in Reddit or elsewhere where we can talk to him directly, like how they did that time for "Post Endwalker Questions" or something like that. I'm also curious to see what the team comes up to now that workflow has normalized post-COVID and once they're done with XVI.

Anyway...

I look forward to seeing how the sub numbers trend into the next expansion and beyond. I have a feeling EW launch with the (temporary) wow exodus was the peak.

So far I feel like these few years before and during EW 6.X.., has been a Quiet before the Event.(What kind if event is up to you..,)

We have XVI in its final stretch towards release after a long development by CBUIII.
We have some limited numbers on XIV, thus their work is spread out, but at the same time they are not only trying out new things at the cost or expense of other content.(despite the fact its easy to argue that there is no conflict area so high for some content to even bother making said content. as regional/political/emotional/Ideal strife/conflict to resolve, or its opposite to partake in.)

And then there is the Graphics Update coming to 7.0 that we have no idea how much it covers<other than ALOT, Be it models, gear, and land/lighting> in order to temper our expectations.

we probably cannot see it, but they've definitely been running around as of late, despite the fact we cannot see/only see lack of results/content.(since they/but cannot let it show..,)

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When it comes to asking YP to step down or be replaced, no..,

One can only Cope/Hope that after XVI releases he will have time to slowdown/reattune to his normal rhythm, and that all these Changes coming in the future.(along with the Rothgals/Femroths/Etc.) that SE considers pumping more cash into the game<development/hires>, as they had no choice to do so with the servers previously/recently/continuously to date.

But he does have alot to manage.

I would jokingly say he may need to split things down individually into his own set of Convocation/Followers.<yes it sounds like a sundering a foot, but he wasn't against joking for a steponme>

He might never step down from being Producer/Director. But if they're able to get some of his tasks reduced/even if not completely or alil. then there is no harm<if it's all still Development as usual>. [if anything, it'll just let him have more if a chance to get in touch with what needs to be developed/scheduled so we don't need to worry about last minute delays, or get the QoL Mammoth plowing through the snow.

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would I bet on it happening, not really..,
But he'll definitely need some assistance with what could be a, adjustment of scope of the game.(Though that would of helped rn with the split work CBUIII has.., more than after.)<and no, not that kind of Scope, lol>

TLDR: These times sure have pulled alot from the snowed over woodwork.

FF14 is pretty much the only thing that is positive for Square Enix and all other games they release at best are neutral in terms of profits. Not sure why they would want to replace game director / management when it's successful. If SE management would want to enforce some decisions they just would and at worse some people in FF14 management would quit on their own and it would be public quite quickly.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I look forward to seeing how the sub numbers trend into the next expansion and beyond. I have a feeling EW launch with the (temporary) wow exodus was the peak.

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Europe is supposed to get a new DC this Summer so we shall see if it will actually happen. Like the game isn't in a bad spot just that it seems to have a problem with people playing on launch and then waiting till the next expansion or something major ;) Like I played till early 6.1 and quit until recently in 6.3 and probably will again at some point.

Yoshi P. has done and is still doing an awesome job with this game...

If anything it is the players ruining the game with all kinds of plugins and cheats that more or less prove they can't play the game without them.... and the fun fact is the mechanics and things to do is not that complicated or difficult to accomplish as long as you want to play the game for real... more difficult stuff take longer to complete.

Is the game really that difficult to complete? Not at all but with all the tools that people claim is needed SO MUCH... it seem like that even for EX and Savage... if anything it is the players that is ruining the game and the Devs and Yoshi P. has difficulties in preventing it from happening, and if they take measures people threathens with that they are going to quit the game or whatever.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Like the game isn't in a bad spot just that it seems to have a problem with people playing on launch and then waiting till the next expansion or something major ;) Like I played till early 6.1 and quit until recently in 6.3 and probably will again at some point.

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If only there were repeatable content worth doing in order to avoid this very situation.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

All early FFXIV did was take the parts of WoW that worked well at the time and copied them over. It's not the massive thing worth overpraising like some seem to think it is.

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Definetely not wow lol... FFXIV may have some traits here and there... but so do WoW from other MMO's their model i no Canon either... some things just made it more popular.... and hmm Orcs, Humans, Elves and whatever race seen and noticed in WarCraft...

Then some of the creatures and idealogy and ways of how it is running and lore is not unique other than the story weaved in over where they stole content themself from, IF YOU WANT to put it like that....

Here is another universe with Elves.... Orcs... Humans... Dwarves... called Lord of the Rings... Tolkiens universe... and others who build on it and alot of it is based out from folklore, believes, religion, politics, events in world history... and reaching into the unknowns.

So please spare me, spare us from that bs, it is not unique, some of the gameplay or ways of doing things is/was/copied from.. but that is pretty much it.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I look forward to seeing how the sub numbers trend into the next expansion and beyond. I have a feeling EW launch with the (temporary) wow exodus was the peak.

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Im sure you'll love to see this game crash and burn and pull a "I told ya so" lol

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Originally Posted by Godzillaxpowerrangers

Like how you cry here everyday that ends in y.

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inb4 some nocturnal race/species in their language change the -day to -night..,
[which reminds me, how would the shards Call their days of week, or is that also changed, including the weekend.]
<intentionally offtopic>

Why shoud he?
No.

I kind of want FF16 to release and be on auto-pilot so he can refocus all his attention back to FF14, to be honest. I do agree that the people in charge of SE as a whole are probably the bigger issue with the budget being spent on games that are flopping and the continuing want to go into NFTs. I'd rather a new president be voted in for SE that wants to focus on making quality games that are fun.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I look forward to seeing how the sub numbers trend into the next expansion and beyond. I have a feeling EW launch with the (temporary) wow exodus was the peak.

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Considering DragonFlight is the FIRST EVER time WoW has not released sales numbers for a expansion, add on WoW bringing back a form of Domination Shards, on top of Mike's GREAT Zoom call debacle that recently happened. Yea i don';t see this game peak yet it probably will have few more surges before it has officially peaked because there are several WoW players that for some reason think FFXIV is like Genshin Impact (over the top huge weapons and huge female anatomy idk i guess just anime trope) but as WoW burns them more and more it will probably keep growing at least till Riot's MMO Launches then it will be interesting genre to see who remains.

Considering he has said he would like to step down from the producer's role as soon as possible and focus solely on the director tasks (basically everything that matters for the players), then yes, it would be ideal if he could do that.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Considering he has said he would like to step down from the producer's role as soon as possible and focus solely on the director tasks (basically everything that matters for the players), then yes, it would be ideal if he could do that.

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sauce please