Would you be opposed to SE implementing a program to scan for addons/parsers?

I’d just make the game playstation only, and don’t

Everything else has invaded my privacy, I don't really see the big deal about SE joining in on it.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Everything else has invaded my privacy, I don't really see the big deal about SE joining in on it.

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You aren't wrong. Everyone's data is out there whether they want it to be or not.

Hell yes i would strongly object to SE putting any kind of spyware on my pc

Yeah if they wanna install spyware onto my pc I’m out thanks

they can stop sending combat logs that is stored in a file on your pc from the combat log... that alone would eliminate it as there woudl be nothing to read from.

Just program raids where if it detects any sort of addon usage from the group then the encounter will troll the players in numerous ways till they realize its unbeatable. Thats what I want to see

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Just program raids where if it detects any sort of addon usage from the group then the encounter will troll the players in numerous ways till they realize its unbeatable. Thats what I want to see

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In order to do that, they would have to install an anti-cheat, because other than visually seeing it, there's no way for the game itself or its players to catch it. Add-ons and mods are all handled outside of the game's tracking limits, and the game is flawed by design at its core by allowing such things to be easily manipulated.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Just program raids where if it detects any sort of addon usage from the group then the encounter will troll the players in numerous ways till they realize its unbeatable. Thats what I want to see

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They'd still have to install anti-cheats to detect it, and even then... I don't understand why people think this is a good idea.

It'd be funny for a bit, but can you imagine the absolute witch hunting and the trolling that would go on in pug groups? One person in your PF group has add-ons, you have no idea who it is, but all 8 players are getting punished.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Just program raids where if it detects any sort of addon usage from the group then the encounter will troll the players in numerous ways till they realize its unbeatable. Thats what I want to see

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That's literally impossible without implementing DRM. Everything is run client side. Therefore, the game has no possible way of detecting anything without actively going through your downloaded index and dll files. Furthermore, a workaround to break such a specific detection would be fairly easy to develop. This would also do absolutely nothing for triggers or other overplay programs that read specific "tells" from the game without directly interacting with it.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Sure i would, i run no software id need to hide lol

Also we do deserve it.

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So, you wouldn't mind opening a session in Teamviewer for me and letting me look through all your installed programms, your files on ALL your connected hard drives and which programms access the files for FF XIV while it is running?

I play on PC and don't use a single mod or third party tool or anything. I play the game completely vanilla. I would be opposed to these programs because those who are intent on getting around them will get around them and these would only end up frustrating and harming the majority of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Shialan

So, you wouldn't mind opening a session in Teamviewer for me and letting me look through all your installed programms, your files on ALL your connected hard drives and which programms access the files for FF XIV while it is running?

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Yeah. Just because I have nothing to hide, doesn't mean I want some random person going through my stuff. It's a matter of respecting personal boundaries. Anyone who has to come out and say "I have nothing to hide" as a response in a debate like this usually has something to hide, or they are just ignorant.

I'm not I have played few other mmorpg's that has had then. I never did have one problem playing them.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

An anti-cheat isn’t “invasive” in the way that you think. On a basic level, the game scans its own files to make sure they match the official ones. This is the same method used when you “verify game file integrity” in Steam or other launchers. It’s also how VAC operates. In fact, the entire system can run server-side. There’s no “scanning” that needs to be performed on your hardware. And AFAIK, a game has a legal and technical right to access its own files.

Also, have people not considered the sheer difference in magnitude between the above system and Mare? Which not only scans your files, but allows arbitrary downloads and code injection onto your client? In addition to uploading information from your client to others? In addition to sharing you and your alts’ statuses? On some dude’s private PC in his basement, no less (no one knows who or what runs Mare). Far, far more intrusive and yet 20,000 people are running Mare at any given time. A large portion of the FFXIV community welcomes intrusiveness. An anti-cheat would relieve them of that.

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First, it's invasive because of the previously stated reasons in the thread (the impact it might have on game performance being one of the biggest ones).

Second, do you use MARE (rhetorical question, don't answer it, not trying to bait anyone into incriminating themselves)? It doesn't just download mods from any person running it, you and a specific user have to share your own personal personal codes, something you're opting in of your own accord, not having forced on you.

Considering many games I've played had performance issues due to anti cheat (Monster Hunter Iceborne and Elden Ring being the most recent examples) absolutely not. Plus people are always able to find ways around anti cheat so there's no point.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah. Just because I have nothing to hide, doesn't mean I want some random person going through my stuff. It's a matter of respecting personal boundaries. Anyone who has to come out and say "I have nothing to hide" as a response in a debate like this usually has something to hide, or they are just ignorant.

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Seriously, "if you have nothing to hide, consent to a mandatory search" is a terrible mindset.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

the absolute smooth brains of people using "wElL i DoN't HaVe AnYtHiNg To HiDe!" as an argument.

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No the smooth brains is the "Imma quit if they scan my PC" like EVERY ONLINE GAME DOESN'T ALREADY...hell 99% of the online games on steam HAVE ANTICHEAT, hell even FALL GUYS has a anticheat system. The fact that some people really act like that is the reason they would quit is freakin hilarious, what are you gonna do on your PC never touch the internet again? Why bother getting a PC get a console then. If you game ONLINE you should EXPECT a anticheat to try and keep the integrity of the game. Does it have a chance of false positive yea, does it happen as often as babies on the forums are making it out to be LOL NO. Does it lag the game and causes issues? Not really unless you are running on a REALLY outdated system it hardly even uses any CPU or RAM like i said most games use anticheat already and it has virtually NO change upon the game. The question would be what Anticheat would be right for a MMO because that would be something interesting on which they would choose to do.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

First, it's invasive because of the previously stated reasons in the thread (the impact it might have on game performance being one of the biggest ones).

Second, do you use MARE (rhetorical question, don't answer it, not trying to bait anyone into incriminating themselves)? It doesn't just download mods from any person running it, you and a specific user have to share your own personal personal codes, something you're opting in of your own accord, not having forced on you.

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which is why there are literally thousands of games on steam with anticheat and no performance issues.

Yes. Outside of what's already been said here, I already deal with EAC or other anticheat problems daily when it comes to drivers they don't understand/aren't on their "safe list" (or w/e, however it works.) I have an offbrand drawing tablet with offbrand, kind of scary looking drivers and these anticheats regularly falseflag and refuse to load up some games because of it. This means that whenever I want to play a game with these anticheats, I've got to uninstall the drivers. Eventually I just decided to install the drivers only when I'm about to sit down and draw, rather than have them on so that I can doodle whenever.

I would be opposed and stop playing this game. Privacy is a thing for me, I use my computer for professional matters and have obligations in that regard. I don't cheat and I shouldn't have to pay for people who do (I don't approve what they do but it has zero consequences on my enjoyment of the game). I do not play any games or use apps that have such a system implemented.

I'd rather have EA implementing a system such as required streaming for those that care about world first stuff.

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Originally Posted by Anger

In light of the recent TOP issue and concerns surrounding the legitimacy of their clear - would you be opposed to anticheat software scanning your system for addons/parsers/plugins?

This would help enforce the total and categorical ban on any third party programs used.

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As much as I hate the whole 'parsing game' and how toxic it can be sometimes, wouldn't this destroy damage meters and thus the whole parsers as well? Which means a ton of people leaving the game because of that.

That since every type of 3rd party activity, let it be damage meters, visual modding, auto playing the bard performance thing, cheating on ultimates or just QoL features that the game lacks - they all ride the same boat.

Is kind of yes and no...

Yes because there is a urgent they do something, like it or no 3rd party tools are against ToS and is clear that this use is rampart among the PC playerbase. That said the rampart part comes from the QoL and no cheat stuff but there is no denying that also some people use it to just straight cheat in the game. For me, really I'm almost done with the game because of people more woerried about parses or those who you remove the bots and can't clear anything than having fun in a "game" and I even transitioned from console to pc to keep trying.

Now for the no part clearly comes from the privacy issues and for what I know if SE implement something that would kill any type of add-on since all comes from the same API (not sure about that but that's what I'm told), so no more QoL or funny stuff

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Originally Posted by Raikai

As much as I hate the whole 'parsing game' and how toxic it can be sometimes, wouldn't this destroy damage meters and thus the whole parsers as well? Which means a ton of people leaving the game because of that.

That since every type of 3rd party activity, let it be damage meters, visual modding, auto playing the bard performance thing, cheating on ultimates or just QoL features that the game lacks - they all ride the same boat.

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Parsers are just reading the log files the game creates to display the chat and battle logs.
They're not modifying the game files at all which is why SE can't really do anything about them. It would be like banning someone for using discord because it makes communicating easier than the vanilla game provides.

The actual problem with meters is on the developer side. If they didn't require every encounter to be on the bleeding edge of optimized dps, the problem becomes a non-problem.

Enrages are supposed to be for anti-shenanigans or things where dps is the only objective like breaking a shield to interrupt a cast.
Having tight dps checks on all things at all times puts the player base on edge and become discriminatory.
Dps checks that are just making sure your not chain reviving or kiting to cheese mechanics would be far more lenient and not really change anything for the worse

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

yes, I would be.

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This is gross

People citing VAC as good anti-cheat is pure comedy.

If it is a spyware-level program that checks other processes and whatnot? Kind of ambivalent. If its just them actually doing basic safety procedures such as enforcing no game files being modified, SE launcher only and blocking interception of packets they send out? Full support.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Parsers are just reading the log files the game creates to display the chat and battle logs.
They're not modifying the game files at all which is why SE can't really do anything about them. It would be like banning someone for using discord because it makes communicating easier than the vanilla game provides.

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Oh, I wasn't aware that the game actually saved files containing battle logs that were available somewhere. Thought that information came strictly from the 3rd party software interacting with the client.

There wouldn't be a need for any of this if the game just had a way to tell me that my parse was .000000000001% better so I could feel good about it.

I absolutely would be.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

There wouldn't be a need for any of this if the game just had a way to tell me

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Yep. This is the heart of the issue. The options people feel that they need don't exist in game, so they add them themselves. I don't really blame the players there as much as I blame SE and the devs for creating this issue. I'm not defending the "cheaters" for the world first race, but they've been allowed to get away with a lot in the past, even using ACT while on a live stream WITH Yoshi P watching and he never really batted an eye. So I have to ask, which is it? If it's an issue now, then the ball is in SE's court. Improve the game and give people at least some of what they want, and this issue will solve itself with time. Mostly. Mods and add-ons will exist as long as they are given free reign, which they are. Chiding the player base at this point solves nothing, because they have already admitted that they can't really crack down on these things, at least not in a meaningful way. They let Pandora's Box fly wide open, and that is on them.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

An anti-cheat isn’t “invasive” in the way that you think. On a basic level, the game scans its own files to make sure they match the official ones. This is the same method used when you “verify game file integrity” in Steam or other launchers. It’s also how VAC operates. In fact, the entire system can run server-side. There’s no “scanning” that needs to be performed on your hardware. And AFAIK, a game has a legal and technical right to access its own files.

Also, have people not considered the sheer difference in magnitude between the above system and Mare? Which not only scans your files, but allows arbitrary downloads and code injection onto your client? In addition to uploading information from your client to others? In addition to sharing you and your alts’ statuses? On some dude’s private PC in his basement, no less (no one knows who or what runs Mare). Far, far more intrusive and yet 20,000 people are running Mare at any given time. A large portion of the FFXIV community welcomes intrusiveness. An anti-cheat would relieve them of that.

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I myself use mare and cosmetic mods. But I only share my UUID with a very small number of people that I implicitly trust. But cosmetic mods are all I use, now that they have implemented the single QoL feature I very desperately needed [aka the buff timers on the party list and the ability to make them larger] That does not mean that I am going to welcome a rootkit onto my system. The people I share my appearance with [primarily my tiny FC of less than a dozen people] I trust. The rootkits that are anti cheats from big corporations I don't.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I don't really blame the players there as much as I blame SE and the devs for creating this issue... Chiding the player base at this point solves nothing, because they have already admitted that they can't really crack down on these things, at least not in a meaningful way.

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If they can't crack down on them, maybe they could just remove ultimates from the game? That'd be another solution to this whole thing! :D

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

If they can't crack down on them, maybe they could just remove ultimates from the game? That'd be another solution to this whole thing! :D

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That would make an already bad situation worse. The solution would be to improve the game and lessen the desire for these things. Perhaps make some mechanics easier to read, though not any easier to execute, as an example. Players shouldn't feel the need to zoom out excessively just to see what in the world is going on. Ultimate might be the focus at the moment, but it also shines a light on a lot of other issues, too.

If the game provided the information that end game players want to help improve their gameplay, then there wouldn't be the need for parsers.

1. Personal Damage
2. Critical % Chance
3. Direct Hit Chance

The 'Combat Log' the game provides is nothing but a mess, good luck even trying to read it.
They need to revamp it to show all of the above, or just condense the information into.. a calculator.. so you can actually make sense of the 10000 lines of text in a single fight. (Oh look there's something that already does that!)

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. This is the heart of the issue. The options people feel that they need don't exist in game, so they add them themselves. I don't really blame the players there as much as I blame SE and the devs for creating this issue. I'm not defending the "cheaters" for the world first race, but they've been allowed to get away with a lot in the past, even using ACT while on a live stream WITH Yoshi P watching and he never really batted an eye. So I have to ask, which is it? If it's an issue now, then the ball is in SE's court. Improve the game and give people at least some of what they want, and this issue will solve itself with time. Mostly. Mods and add-ons will exist as long as they are given free reign, which they are. Chiding the player base at this point solves nothing, because they have already admitted that they can't really crack down on these things, at least not in a meaningful way. They let Pandora's Box fly wide open, and that is on them.

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Cheaters are going to cheat, bud. SE can implement every single mod and ACT currently used by players and design their content around those features, and what happens is new cheats will be used to make that content easier, or mods will be used to make available what isn't. The goalposts will always be moved. It also isn't just about making things easier, it's also about these players having advantages over other players who can't or won't use the addons. Then there is the element of simply just respecting the content as it is intended to be played. It is so odd to me that players somehow will place blame on the dev team when they are the ones being disrespected.

It's a really good thing I'm not Yoshi, as my own hammer of fairness is completely and totally indiscriminate. I wouldn't last long in his position as I would eliminate any future ultimate content, housing, and any other feature in the game where there are those who stand to benefit by stepping on others. But I come from a level of discipline where if a child eats a cookie when they are not supposed to, all of the cookies are thrown out.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Cheaters are going to cheat, bud. SE can implement every single mod and ACT currently used by players and design their content around those features, and what happens is new cheats will be used to make that content easier, or mods will be used to make available what isn't. The goalposts will always be moved. It also isn't just about making things easier, it's also about these players having advantages over other players who can't or won't use the addons. Then there is the element of simply just respecting the content as it is intended to be played. It is so odd to me that players somehow will place blame on the dev team when they are the ones being disrespected.

It's a really good thing I'm not Yoshi, as my own hammer of fairness is completely and totally indiscriminate. I wouldn't last long in his position as I would eliminate any future ultimate content, housing, and any other feature in the game where there are those who stand to benefit by stepping on others. But I come from a level of discipline where if a child eats a cookie when they are not supposed to, all of the cookies are thrown out.

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I mean, I pretty much acknowledged that this would always be a thing. I'm mostly just calling on the devs to be less reactive and acting so surprised when they have allowed this to happen for long and be more proactive by adding some things that players feel the need to mod in. The devs acting like their feelings are hurt isn't going to do anything. Like you said, cheaters are going to cheat. If the devs don't like it, then give players some reasons NOT to. Ultimates are free advertising, so I'd probably call Yoshi P's bluff if he ever threatened to stop making them.

depends on how it functioned. if it just used what's already available and just passively scanned processes and the like without involving rootkits or memory-heavy nonsense then... well, i'd probably still play the game.

if it actually dug its claws into my garbage? no. haha no. nnnnoooo. not just because of how invasive that is but because it doesn't actually stop people from cheating. you'll just make better cheaters. they never work.

That would only mess up people's performance and modders will simply find a way to work around it so, nay.

The innocent have nothing to fear. I support it.