Please add loot griefing to "Prohibited Activities"

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Originally Posted by jimmybe29

There's a thread on twitter, too, even though the person who tweeted it gave the wrong context it gained some traction (around ~500 likes)
I have chat logs from above your reply, and more from discord where he admits to it and is proud of it (wont name which discord) he was trying to justify his act by "no one plays gnb" which is untrue
https://i.imgur.com/QSzEClV.png https://i.imgur.com/IZ1RUx2.png
https://i.imgur.com/QtS6WHQ.png




We already reported him, and GMs have logs for deleted/looted items and such so if it's bannable there hopefully will be actions

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Thus I stand corrected.

If you really wanted the weapon you could just play as GNB. You have it leveled. It would make your chances much much higher. At most the weapon would be free or you only compete with the other Tank.

Alternatively you could have asked prepull if the GNB weapon drops could you have it as you have a lvl90 GNB that could use it as an upgrade OR offer them Gil to guarantee the drop?

While I find it was rude and unfair to others I have to applaud the player's cleverness. And that as they are seemingly a master ninja looter they deserve all the respect a Lominsan Rogue deserves.

Although if you are doing Savage content on a different class one might argue why roll for the weapon if you realistically can't gear up multiple jobs and should focus on your main instead?

They really need to change up gearing with the whole "you can level every job" but you can "only gear up one".

I'm always surprised at the lengths people in this forum will go to defend spam and asshole behavior

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Originally Posted by Conadrium

Is there a way to edit? Also I’m surprised this even works. Loot eligibility is determined when the chest is opened why would deleting and item suddenly let you roll? Seems like bad programming.

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I desynth stuff mid dungeon all the time if I can Need roll on it and I already have it, but like, you can't desynth ILVL 635 gear so this guy is 100% a [Word that goes against the ToS of Final Fantasy XIV]
He is probably a P*rser who wants to gatekeep his pinball Highscore like a real mature adult.

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Originally Posted by BelegErkhten

you can't desynth ILVL 635 gear so this guy is 100% a [Word that goes against the ToS of Final Fantasy XIV]
He is probably a P*rser who wants to gatekeep his pinball Highscore like a real mature adult.

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He raided with a static, which means he never had any issue to get BiS compared to PF players, he also is a P*rser, but the player admitted of doing it "for fun" to grief us and is proud about it as i've shown in screenshot in page 2.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I'm always surprised at the lengths people in this forum will go to defend spam and asshole behavior

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Yeah man idk apparently it's the 7 players fault for not playing the job just to roll "need" on a weekly loot system that has 1 out of 19 chances (random weapon, without counting the 1 out of 8 chances to roll high enough to get it if it's not concerning a job someone plays in the party etc..) just to roll "need" on it
he's definitely not a scumbag for swapping weapon + deleting his to loot it for the sake of other people not getting it

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

If you really wanted the weapon you could just play as GNB.

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You're missing the point, stop trying to defend and justify a move done with intention to ruin other players fun and grief them.

Pretty sure you can do the same without deleting items by putting them in your saddlebag.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Pretty sure you can do the same without deleting items by putting them in your saddlebag.

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Yes you can, but in that specific case the player killed P8S with his 635 weapon, swapped to 605 weapon after the kill, deleted his 635 to roll need on the weapon
also you cannot access the saddlebag in a raid

Omg this is so funny! I am so jealous now, that I am not doing savages myself!! >.>

I think what the GNB did was an a$$hat behavior. But (un)fortunately they don’t seem to violate regulation so there’s really nothing can be done outside reporting and pray something will happen?

The WAR could’ve queued as GNB themselves if they wanted a GNB weapon but whether they participate in this “If my friend not getting it, nobody’s getting it!!”-shenanigan or not is a different story. It could be just the GNB’s own issue.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

The WAR could’ve queued as GNB themselves if they wanted a GNB weapon but whether they participate in this “If my friend not getting it, nobody’s getting it!!”-shenanigan or not is a different story. It could be just the GNB’s own issue.

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The original tweet was a bit misleading. It wasn't the other tank in the party that wanted the weapon, it was OP of this thread. The tweeter assumed it was the other tank and that the GNB did it because they were in cahoots with the person who asked because she was tired and frustrated by the GNB actions. She also wasn't expecting the tweet to pop off so she didn't decide to check to see. Also the GNB admitted to doing it for lols.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

The original tweet was a bit misleading. It wasn't the other tank in the party that wanted the weapon, it was OP of this thread. The tweeter assumed it was the other tank and that the GNB did it because they were in cahoots with the person who asked because she was tired and frustrated by the GNB actions. She also wasn't expecting the tweet to pop off so she didn't decide to check to see. Also the GNB admitted to doing it for lols.

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No wonder! Lmao.

Thank you for clarifying!

another day of "I dont have a static"

please go on and tell us how bad it made you feel, it wont change anything I promise, neither will they get banned. It's not agaisnt TOS

Not happy ? Get a static.

So for the record, I have no opinions on the result of the matter itself, but simply a question about the cause.

Do you feel that gearing with SE's "All Jobs. 1 character" design philosophy, that the way loot is handled in terms of attempting to gear multiple jobs, is the source of the issue?

For instance, if you are a tank main and want to gear healer, you're going to want to just play as a tank and roll on chests for the most part unless you don't care/have funds for gearing alt jobs with penta-melded crafted. The books help, but I still feel that the amount required is egregiously excessive and is a poorly functioning "catch all" fix at minimum.

To which, yes. Changing/Adjusting the loot system in Raids won't change toxic behaviour like this. However it will make it easier for you and other players to not be heavily effected by such acts.

I feel like issues like these need to be approached with a bottom up (core game play systems first) way of thinking, rather than attacking the top (making gear untrashable in raid), as you are only band-aiding the issue and not fixing the inherent problems with those specific systems itself.

Good lord, some of the people in this thread.

For starters, OP didn't say it was against the rules, he said it SHOULD be against the rules.

Second, it was done with malicious intent, why are people on this forum, ONCE AGAIN, defending malicious intent??? Sure, let's have assholes running around making the game unfun, that's sure to keep the game alive and well!

Third, those "get a static" posts are absolutely laughable. Not everyone is able to raid with a static for whatever reason. That shouldn't mean they have to deal with people being assholes. Party finder is already miserable enough as is, why encourage it to be worse? Absolutely get off your high horse.


Player being a douchebag = defend said player
Absolutely boggles the mind. OP isn't even whining about losing the item anyways, like, keep putting words in his mouth I guess.

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Originally Posted by Conadrium

I’ll try one more time to explain this. When an item drops in WOW you are either eligible or not. A prime example is ilvl. You can’t trade an item if it’s an ilvl upgrade for you. Getting another item that would make it NOT an ilvl upgrade doesn’t suddenly let you trade it. Nothing you can change, changes your loot eligibility. If that’s not the case in FF (I couldn’t imagine destroying loot to take the same item from someone else) then it should be.

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Long story short, the loot system works as follows:
When loot enters the table the game determines the rolls available to the player based on job of gear and job of player. Job overlaps between gear and player allows for the need option to be selectable, otherwise it is greyed out. When the roll is made, if it is unique, the game checks your inventory to confirm that there is not another of that same item present.

Due to the fact that the game does not check for the item itself until you actually attempt to make the roll, it can be bypassed by removing the item from your inventory if it were to conflict with the unique trait.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Good lord, some of the people in this thread.

For starters, OP didn't say it was against the rules, he said it SHOULD be against the rules.

Second, it was done with malicious intent, why are people on this forum, ONCE AGAIN, defending malicious intent??? Sure, let's have assholes running around making the game unfun, that's sure to keep the game alive and well!

Third, those "get a static" posts are absolutely laughable. Not everyone is able to raid with a static for whatever reason. That shouldn't mean they have to deal with people being assholes. Party finder is already miserable enough as is, why encourage it to be worse? Absolutely get off your high horse.


Player being a douchebag = defend said player
Absolutely boggles the mind. OP isn't even whining about losing the item anyways, like, keep putting words in his mouth I guess.

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Thank you very much for actually reading the thread compared to some players who doesn't read at all and come here just to be toxic themselves.

People actually defending loot griefing has to be the most baffling thing I've read through today, stay amazing ffxiv community

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

Basically cry more about party finder. It's the risk you take when you don't raid in a static, or turn to PF to fill a slot. There's no need for anything to change, and you're whining like a child. Yeah, it sucks that they did it but sometimes people suck.

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I don't think you could possibly project any harder.

While all of this is well and good, everyone here should know that SE won't even look at this until it gets hundred+ of pages in length. If yall really want this change then keep this thread alive (even though most will probably get bored and move onto the next hot topic in a day or two and leave this one to rot with the rest).

Very unlikely a GM will deal with the problem but two solutions are present. 1. Form or join static 2. Start your own PF group and set loot to master looter (note: Players who are giant childern will rage about this one.)

You can easy find the player after there is a log you can check on in game, just report him for it, because it is bad ethics and actually do count as obstruction as well in ways.

Loot griefing was always reportable when there were statements made in-chat of who would get what, and then having someone negate what was agreed on. Like someone would just put in the macro what people wanted and can just run it again when loot drops. This was back in the day in Coil when there were no pity buys or 'books' like today. Like you could run a turn for weeks or a lot during farm period and still not get a particular piece like hands.

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Originally Posted by jimmybe29

Hey, so this is a suggestion/complaint thread because of something that happened yesterday in party finder and it's not the first time i've seen it happen.

Basically yesterday evening I was doing P8S (usual weekly 2 chests) and the random weapon that dropped was GNB, we had a GNB is our party who already had the 635 weapon. Therefore he couldn't roll on it so I tried rolling, so did other players in the party.

The GNB then proceeded to swap his weapon to another, delete his 635 weapon so he could roll "Need" on the savage weapon and grief the 7 players who tried to roll for it.

This is obviously a griefing tactic, the player then trolled us in chat and was ofc proud of himself; I went through the "Prohibited Activities" FFXIV page didn't see a specific mention of this tactic that has existed for years, of course this counts as "griefing" but I think this tactic should be more known and definitely made clear that this is punishable.

Never posted here before, made sure not to mention any name and respect the rules;

EDIT: it's a suggestion thread to change the loot system or make it a bannable offense to do what the GNB did, not just being salty for no reason;
EDIT2: most player from the party including myself have already reported the GNB
also https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6128882

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Can someone enlighten me on how the GNB benefits from this at all. I get the grieving of other players, and understand that it can be done just to be an a-hole, but I am curious if there is any technical benefit to doing this. Also, why do these duties drop specific weapons? Shouldn't they just drop the ilv weapon coffers like the EX trials do?

The only thing I can think of that even remotely explains the actions of the GNB is a gatekeeping mentality that has these kind of players dictate that you can only have the weapon if you are playing the job that can equip it, so he strips the other players of their right to greed on the item. This does not pardon the GNB's actions. I'm just thinking of possible motivations to act in such a way.

I regret to inform that the GNB didn't do anything wrong in terms of the ToS, and this is a matter of morale and etiquette. The seven players in this group acknowledge this, and reported the GNB. That's really as far as it goes. He won't receive any disciplinary action, and the ToS won't be updated. The dev team is more than likely to address it at the technical level, and just prevent players from being able to do it. This is why it is still good to report. Don't report to get someone in trouble. Report to inform the GMs about shenanigans players are pulling.

The seven of you did the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I regret to inform that the GNB didn't do anything wrong in terms of the ToS, and this is a matter of morale and etiquette. The seven players in this group acknowledge this, and reported the GNB. That's really as far as it goes. He won't receive any disciplinary action, and the ToS won't be updated. The dev team is more than likely to address it at the technical level, and just prevent players from being able to do it. This is why it is still good to report. Don't report to get someone in trouble. Report to inform the GMs about shenanigans players are pulling.

The seven of you did the right thing.

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It’s funny how many people on the forums who talk about the TOS clearly haven’t read it.

“In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use. If a violation is confirmed as a result of our investigations, Square Enix may, in its sole discretion,“

That is the VERY first paragraph of the TOS and it’s what’s referred to as a catch all. It covers all situations because it’s impossible to predict and list every way someone can be a jerk. It would boggle the mind that this would not qualify. It’s clearly meant to have an adverse effect on others and is clearly documented in game.

Imagine if that GNB was actioned and had the weapon he won from this deleted so he had to go back to his low ilvl weapon lmao

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Imagine if that GNB was actioned and had the weapon he won from this deleted so he had to go back to his low ilvl weapon lmao

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unfortunately, he'd just buy a new one from books or ask his static to go for 1 more run to give him all the loot since he's otp gunblade and already has 10 weekly kills, would be fun tho

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Can someone enlighten me on how the GNB benefits from this at all. I get the grieving of other players, and understand that it can be done just to be an a-hole, but I am curious if there is any technical benefit to doing this. Also, why do these duties drop specific weapons? Shouldn't they just drop the ilv weapon coffers like the EX trials do?

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As i've said and shown earlier in the thread (page2) the player admitted to doing it for fun, to grief other players and he was proud of himself, he doesn't gain anything from it other than the satisfaction of being toxic.
The loot that drops from the 4th boss of a tier in savage : 1 weapon coffer, 1 torso coffer, 1 random weapon (can be need or greed depending on job), 1 mount, 1 orchestrion and 1 minion - It's always this
the random weapon is kinda like a bonus since it's complete RNG, just like in Extreme duties, unfortunately it's a weekly reward system so it cannot be farmed like extremes and is very welcome if it's one you can make use of and very lucky for you if it's the job you're playing since it's a guaranteed 100% roll for you.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Very unlikely a GM will deal with the problem but two solutions are present. 1. Form or join static 2. Start your own PF group and set loot to master looter (note: Players who are giant childern will rage about this one.)

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This is a solution that requires a drastic change in the way I would play the game, just for 1 small thing that can be changed around 4th boss loot or obviously show that this toxic behavior that can be punished.
Also, no one fills a lootmaster PF, it's impossible especially in P8S because of how scarce it is. People can grief week 2 of raid if they're lucky and many more players who are playing solely in pf.
So yeah, it's not a solution at all

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Originally Posted by Conadrium

It’s funny how many people on the forums who talk about the TOS clearly haven’t read it.

“In Final Fantasy XIV, obstructive behavior that has an adverse impact on other users' gameplay, or operation of service, is prohibited. Such behavior violates the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement and Square Enix Account Terms of Use. If a violation is confirmed as a result of our investigations, Square Enix may, in its sole discretion,“

That is the VERY first paragraph of the TOS and it’s what’s referred to as a catch all. It covers all situations because it’s impossible to predict and list every way someone can be a jerk. It would boggle the mind that this would not qualify. It’s clearly meant to have an adverse effect on others and is clearly documented in game.

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I am well aware of ToS. I don't place myself under legal contractual obligations without knowing what those are.

That said, what the GNB did as far as I understand is discard his weapon in order to roll need on the same GNB weapon. There is nothing in the ToS that prevents him from doing either of those. It makes zero sense, sure. If he wanted, he could do this week after week after week. Even if this player explicitly states that he is doing it to be toxic and to grief players, the matter will still need to be investigated using data the GMs compile themselves from the servers. Your own screenshots and what have you really won't hold a lot of water.

Look bud, I get it. You would think good common decency wins these cases, but it doesn't. The term "catch all" only serves to protect the distributor from the subscriber, not the other way around. This doesn't mean to be a defeatist in submission to reality; it means that the playerbase is fully capable of resolving situations of unrest on their own.

We can't scream ToS every time another player is being an arsehole. Every players has very specific rights that the ToS covers that have to be immediately addressed if they are in violation: doxxing, privacy, data theft, denial of service without cause, etc. SE goes through great lengths to make sure every player is protected from these violations. This is honestly petty nickel and dime stuff. Again, the dev team and GMs really rely on players to resolve these situations on their own.

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Originally Posted by jimmybe29

As i've said and shown earlier in the thread (page2) the player admitted to doing it for fun, to grief other players and he was proud of himself, he doesn't gain anything from it other than the satisfaction of being toxic.
The loot that drops from the 4th boss of a tier in savage : 1 weapon coffer, 1 torso coffer, 1 random weapon (can be need or greed depending on job), 1 mount, 1 orchestrion and 1 minion - It's always this
the random weapon is kinda like a bonus since it's complete RNG, just like in Extreme duties, unfortunately it's a weekly reward system so it cannot be farmed like extremes and is very welcome if it's one you can make use of and very lucky for you if it's the job you're playing since it's a guaranteed 100% roll for you.

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Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure since I don't run current savage duties, and just trying to put myself in the perspective of the GNB in this situation. Again though, the admission doesn't carry much weight. The report coming from every single other player in that group does much more to warrant an investigation by the GMs. Hopefully they will make a change that prevents this from happening with future encounters, but feel it might be difficult without taking away the greed privilege players currently have.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure since I don't run current savage duties, and just trying to put myself in the perspective of the GNB in this situation. Again though, the admission doesn't carry much weight. The report coming from every single other player in that group does much more to warrant an investigation by the GMs. Hopefully they will make a change that prevents this from happening with future encounters, but feel it might be difficult without taking away the greed privilege players currently have.

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That's the point of this thread so far, it's a suggestion thread to either change loot system to prevent this griefing tactic, or make it clear that is this a punishable offense in "Prohibited Activities" that would count as griefing, the goal would be discouraging players from doing it and if they're doing it then a report would be sufficient for a warn/ban. GMs can see what items you delete and loot in the logs, so if it's reported quickly they can easily track it and take actions.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of savage PF players in this forum to understand how infuriating it can be that someone griefs loot especially a weapon when you can roll 0 loot for entire weeks with no luck.

The Western playerbase is pretty clearly hitting even more increasing skids. Whether this is a TOS violation or not - although honestly it should be - is rapidly becoming a secondary matter.

It's not a desynthable item, nor is it something that can be sold or given onward of itself. In other words, there isn't even the more multifaceted matter of whether "being a jerk to get ahead" is okay to consider here, because there simply wasn't even any "ahead" to get. The GNB acted flat out destructively, and I literally don't see what their defenders' rationale in rallying to them even is - especially during this tier where PF is already in a bad way due to the desperately tight DPS checks on P8S, and the alt job gearing situation is especially critical (many threads have already commented on this, but it comes down to that the community overall really needs as much gear to get out to as many people as possible and hoggish behavior like this needs to be swiftly condemned).

"Get a static" really isn't helping. What about people whose schedules make it problematic? It seems like some people are not only resigning themselves to the idea of "if you want to raid, get a static" but actively condoning the idea that part of the purpose of PF is to give malcontents a place to be jerks with little accountability. How does that benefit anyone?

Whatever happened to the olden MMO culture, where any sort of ninja looting behavior was condemned to the point that the guilty fellow was normally shunned from groups for all eternity? Do you want people like this in your parties?

(Hence why I say "the Western playerbase" because in JP, from what I understand of the JP DC, it would have certainly been this person's last PUG raid ...)

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Originally Posted by Amarande

Whatever happened to the olden MMO culture, where any sort of ninja looting behavior was condemned to the point that the guilty fellow was normally shunned from groups for all eternity? Do you want people like this in your parties?

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I wish .-.; We have entire threads of people justifying garbage behaviour and weak performances because "that's their playstyle". That trying to tell people to do the bare minimum is toxic. So if people reacted that way toward those who do this sort of self-destructive behaviour, they'd be the ones to be criticised and hit with reports for being toxic.

That, and there's no real coordination for PF. So that person can go to literally any other party and do it. Even if you took it upon yourself to alert the PF leader of the guy's behaviour, they might ignore it + you'd be slapped back and told that what you're doing is persecution.

that is griefing as in the rules part of griefing is intent and if a player literally states they did something just to stop other peoples from doing or getting something it literally falls into griefing.

of course this does require someone to say it in the in game chat as people have mentioned gm's only take things said in game as evidence so people can say through other platforms and places they are griefing.

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Originally Posted by Amarande

"Get a static" really isn't helping. What about people whose schedules make it problematic? It seems like some people are not only resigning themselves to the idea of "if you want to raid, get a static" but actively condoning the idea that part of the purpose of PF is to give malcontents a place to be jerks with little accountability. How does that benefit anyone?

Whatever happened to the olden MMO culture, where any sort of ninja looting behavior was condemned to the point that the guilty fellow was normally shunned from groups for all eternity? Do you want people like this in your parties?

(Hence why I say "the Western playerbase" because in JP, from what I understand of the JP DC, it would have certainly been this person's last PUG raid ...)

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Because nowadays being toxic is cool, edgy, BASED, it's become a normality in online games and people don't condone it as hard as before.

Online games needs to be moderated more when it comes to toxicity or at least have a strong stance towards this type of behavior, you've got great example of unmoderated games with absolutely disgusting things on a daily basis.
Take for example League of Legends, if you type anything that isn't flagged by the system you'll never get banned so the most toxic players will never stop behaving in a shitty way simply because there are no consequences behind, every time I play in high elo I see "go neck" "ky5" on a daily basis in chat and that doesn't surprise anyone anymore including myself, it's become a part of the game. The same goes for destructive behavior like soft-inting to make the game a 100% loss.

Some people in the replies of this thread want toxic behavior to be part of FFXIV, I don't.
There's a point where lines will be crossed and people will say "whatever is it what it is" especially when it doesn't affect them.

Once again, this case is pretty specific since it can only be done in 4th boss of a tier and in party finder, but this is still a griefing tactic that needs to be stopped one way or another
The whole point is : something needs to be done so players cannot grief others in this type of scenario

i'm astonished from reading some of these, aside from the toxic=edgy=cool, people shouldn't normalize nor accept this type of behaviour in any kind as it is destructive in every shape or form and WILL lead to a poorer raid experience than we already have.

Do not believe that the difficulty to get said item, changes anything to the topic because it doesn't and i'd give my voice for it all the same.
I was in OP group when it happened and while it sucks, it certainly sucks and is a bad vibe for the 7 others in the group that might've wanted it.

I'm sure it has been said many times, but having common decency while playing with others shouldn't be something to be talked against, be human,be civil.

Love, Bango Zango

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Originally Posted by Amarande

The Western playerbase is pretty clearly hitting even more increasing skids. Whether this is a TOS violation or not - although honestly it should be - is rapidly becoming a secondary matter.

It's not a desynthable item, nor is it something that can be sold or given onward of itself. In other words, there isn't even the more multifaceted matter of whether "being a jerk to get ahead" is okay to consider here, because there simply wasn't even any "ahead" to get. The GNB acted flat out destructively, and I literally don't see what their defenders' rationale in rallying to them even is - especially during this tier where PF is already in a bad way due to the desperately tight DPS checks on P8S, and the alt job gearing situation is especially critical (many threads have already commented on this, but it comes down to that the community overall really needs as much gear to get out to as many people as possible and hoggish behavior like this needs to be swiftly condemned).

"Get a static" really isn't helping. What about people whose schedules make it problematic? It seems like some people are not only resigning themselves to the idea of "if you want to raid, get a static" but actively condoning the idea that part of the purpose of PF is to give malcontents a place to be jerks with little accountability. How does that benefit anyone?

Whatever happened to the olden MMO culture, where any sort of ninja looting behavior was condemned to the point that the guilty fellow was normally shunned from groups for all eternity? Do you want people like this in your parties?

(Hence why I say "the Western playerbase" because in JP, from what I understand of the JP DC, it would have certainly been this person's last PUG raid ...)

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Most people really love their 'god given rights' to be an asshole to other people for no other reason than to gloat about it. That's it really. Everything else is fancy justifications for that.

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Originally Posted by Amarande

The Western playerbase is pretty clearly hitting even more increasing skids. Whether this is a TOS violation or not - although honestly it should be - is rapidly becoming a secondary matter.

It's not a desynthable item, nor is it something that can be sold or given onward of itself. In other words, there isn't even the more multifaceted matter of whether "being a jerk to get ahead" is okay to consider here, because there simply wasn't even any "ahead" to get. The GNB acted flat out destructively, and I literally don't see what their defenders' rationale in rallying to them even is - especially during this tier where PF is already in a bad way due to the desperately tight DPS checks on P8S, and the alt job gearing situation is especially critical (many threads have already commented on this, but it comes down to that the community overall really needs as much gear to get out to as many people as possible and hoggish behavior like this needs to be swiftly condemned).

"Get a static" really isn't helping. What about people whose schedules make it problematic? It seems like some people are not only resigning themselves to the idea of "if you want to raid, get a static" but actively condoning the idea that part of the purpose of PF is to give malcontents a place to be jerks with little accountability. How does that benefit anyone?

Whatever happened to the olden MMO culture, where any sort of ninja looting behavior was condemned to the point that the guilty fellow was normally shunned from groups for all eternity? Do you want people like this in your parties?

(Hence why I say "the Western playerbase" because in JP, from what I understand of the JP DC, it would have certainly been this person's last PUG raid ...)

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Oh look it's the Discord conspiracist from GameFAQs. Also statics are the solution, and they are an option for everyone

Oh look it's the guy who's known for being a toxic butt in every thread he enters. Sure do love pointless ad hominem attacks!

Statics are quite literally NOT an option for everyone. Easiest example is someone who's schedule is unreliable and can't make set static raid times.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Oh look it's the guy who's known for being a toxic butt in every thread he enters. Sure do love pointless ad hominem attacks!

Statics are quite literally NOT an option for everyone. Easiest example is someone who's schedule is unreliable and can't make set static raid times.

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The irony is that by lying about me you commit the same fallacy you accuse me of. And people choose to not make their schedules unreliable, and a choice is...

(This is where you look up synonyms and finish the sentence)

Gotta admit, that was some pretty creative scumbaggery. I wouldn't ever think to do that to people, but I guess I'm not that malicious lmao

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Statics are quite literally NOT an option for everyone. Easiest example is someone who's schedule is unreliable and can't make set static raid times.

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Exactly this, i'll add the reasons as to why I don't want to go in a static :
Needing a schedule, having to talk to other people and interact with them, organize things, voice chat etc... I don't want any of this except for ultimate content when I go for HC prog and World Race.
I like to just hop on the game join a pf and vibe on the fight with music on whenever I feel like it;

Sure i'd get BiS faster by being in a static, but I prefer having rng loot than feeling forced to play and comply to a schedule, it's just not my cup of tea.
Party finder is used by a lot of players for a reason, not everyone wants to go for a static. Punish griefing or change the loot system.