[Question] Lootmaster etiquette sanity check

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Originally Posted by san-toki

Can those of you who are in statics who do this explain to me the logic of it? The members in your static who do not get a direct weapon drop have to open their weapon coffers on their main job, right? So why do you feel people who do get a lucky early direct drop also deserve a free guaranteed second weapon while the other members do not? Why wouldn’t the extra coffers be FFA?

I truly cannot wrap my mind around this system and it seems like half of this thread is split in that direction with the other half agreeing with me.

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A possible explanation to me is that everyone is owed one coffer and one random weapon drop (for alt jobs for example). If you go purely by BiS you can have situations where someone gets their weapon early and then gets no coffer, whereas someone who got their coffer early and then also a random weapon drop they want for an alt job has two weapons now.

For our static we're just gonna do extra reclears at some point to satisfy everyone's glamouring needs so what we do with those leftover coffers from the first 8 doesnt actually matter.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

You're crazy for joining a lootmaster party. No sane person does this, unless lootmaster is friend and/or guildmate. You've learned your lesson now: never join lootmaster party.

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You quote the entire post, but miss this in this first sentence? "Tonight was my (problem-riddled, unhappy) static's final night of reclears"

It was a static, lol...

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Originally Posted by san-toki

Can those of you who are in statics who do this explain to me the logic of it? The members in your static who do not get a direct weapon drop have to open their weapon coffers on their main job, right? So why do you feel people who do get a lucky early direct drop also deserve a free guaranteed second weapon while the other members do not? Why wouldn’t the extra coffers be FFA?

I truly cannot wrap my mind around this system and it seems like half of this thread is split in that direction with the other half agreeing with me.

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Because at the end of the day, it's luck, it's not worth trying to sweat over accounting for it when 'everyone gets 1x free coffer' sets a precedent and anything extra is just a bonus from lady luck.

That, and especially if a group formed only for 8 clears and then disband ( which I see plenty of on the various recruitment reddits), why should someone be punished with a forced weapon choice when they might want to hang onto the coffer for a guaranteed weapon choice when they might want to switch jobs? If they get the direct BRD bow drop, it does nothing if they wanted to say, switch to DRG.

Before I had to quit the static due to IRL, my old group I ran with had done 'everyone gets 1x free coffer, if you get lucky with a random weapon drop you just get your coffer last for increasing damage purposes of the whole static faster' for several tiers and it always worked perfectly. Some tiers people would get lucky, some tiers they wouldn't. In the end, all this gear becomes irrelevant the nanosecond the next ilvl tier upgrade comes out, its such wasted energy to be trying to go on a moral crusade about it. The only thing that matters is what the group decides when they make the expectations on how loot will be handled, not what any particular person thinks.

I'm realizing more and more that people on these forums cannot or do not read the things that they are replying to.

No one was forced to play an off-job due to weapon drops. That isn't the premise of the thread. The decision also was made randomly on the last night of reclears; this wasn't a system anyone agreed to.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

Can those of you who are in statics who do this explain to me the logic of it? The members in your static who do not get a direct weapon drop have to open their weapon coffers on their main job, right? So why do you feel people who do get a lucky early direct drop also deserve a free guaranteed second weapon while the other members do not? Why wouldn’t the extra coffers be FFA?

I truly cannot wrap my mind around this system and it seems like half of this thread is split in that direction with the other half agreeing with me.

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Having the rule that "Everyone gets a weapon and chest coffer, no matter what" is generally easier to be accepted by the entire static, rather than "Everyone gets a weapon and chest coffer, but only if they didn't get one as a drop".
The latter would also raise the question on if the 8th weapon coffer should always be FFA. After all, wouldn't the last player have enough books to purchase their BiS weapon, and no longer be required to open a coffer to obtain it?

The way my static handles it, is that everyone ends up with one of each coffer, with priority on coffers being given to players that don't have their BiS weapon yet. This is clearly communicated before a new tier even starts, both through voice and text.

The only thing I'd consider questionable about OP's situation, is if the static leader never actually clarified about the static's rules regarding weapon coffers. So this sounds more like a communication issue than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

"Everyone gets a weapon and chest coffer, but only if they didn't get one as a drop".

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I think a simpler way to phrase this would be "everyone gets their BiS." Everyone gets BiS, and then the rest is FFA/by request.

But I do agree that both methods are viable if the static agrees to it; clearly I am biased towards thinking one way is fairer than the other. Mostly this thread was a vent that I made after our raid night was over, but it's been good hearing from both sides, for the most part.

At the end of the day, like it's been said, loot itself doesn't matter much. The tier is over in all meaningful aspects, and this gear will be pointless soon. I only log on for reclears lately anyhow. I suppose it was more the principle of the thing that felt like a slap in the face, a cherry on top of what I would describe as a very contentious and unfortunate few months of raiding.

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Originally Posted by san-toki

I think a simpler way to phrase this would be "everyone gets their BiS." Everyone gets BiS, and then the rest is FFA/by request.

But I do agree that both methods are viable if the static agrees to it; clearly I am biased towards thinking one way is fairer than the other. Mostly this thread was a vent that I made after our raid night was over, but it's been good hearing from both sides, for the most part.

At the end of the day, like it's been said, loot itself doesn't matter much. The tier is over in all meaningful aspects, and this gear will be pointless soon. I only log on for reclears lately anyhow. I suppose it was more the principle of the thing that felt like a slap in the face, a cherry on top of what I would describe as a very contentious and unfortunate few months of raiding.

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So let me understand this. we are comparing these two possibilities in a set of eight(8) clears:

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DPS 1: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 2: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 3: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 4: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Tank 1: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Tank 2: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Healer 1: 1x random weapon (ideally sub), 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Healer 2: 1x random weapon (BIS), 1x weapon coffer (sub job)

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VS

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DPS 1: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 2: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 3: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
DPS 4: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Tank 1: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Tank 2: 1x random weapon, 1x weapon coffer (BIS)
Healer 1: 1x random weapon, 2x weapon coffer (BIS + FFA)
Healer 2: 1x random BIS WEAPON, 0x weapon coffer (already got BIS)

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In Scenario 1, everyone gets:
- 1x BIS weapon
- 1x non-main weapon

In Scenario 2, everyone gets:
- 1x BIS weapon by any means
- ?x Weapon coffers
- ?x random weapons

as ugly as it sounds, hypothetically in 8 clears, it could also look like this according to what I understood:

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DPS 1: 1x random weapon, 2x weapon coffer (1 BIS, 1 FFA)
DPS 2: 1x random weapon, 2x weapon coffer (1 BIS, 1 FFA)
DPS 3: 1x random weapon, 2x weapon coffer (1 BIS, 1 FFA)
DPS 4: 1x random weapon, 2x weapon coffer (1 BIS, 1 FFA)
Tank 1: 1x random BIS WEAPON, 0x weapon coffer (because they already got BIS)
Tank 2: 1x random BIS WEAPON, 0x weapon coffer (because they already got BIS)
Healer 1: 1x random BIS WEAPON, 0x weapon coffer (because they already got BIS)
Healer 2: 1x random BIS WEAPON, 0x weapon coffer (because they already got BIS)

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"Everyone got a BIS weapon and 8 books, so this is okay".

Both as a player and as a raid leader, I'd cringe if I would be okay with such a loot order. I would not lead a static with this rule and I'd refuse to raid with a static using this rule. Scenario 2 has the potential where multiple people can be loot goblins while others will be left with minimal reward. Simply speaking, for a standard 8-clear set, this is not a fair rule and anyone accepting to raid under such conditions has the potential to be exploited off their effort and time they bring to the raid static.

I highly recommend people to use party finder if you are at the stage where you want to be a loot goblin.

You can't tell me with a static that you didn't know this wasn't gonna happen. The whole reason for a static with lootmaster is to plan loot. You see a loot goblin, get a different static.

So just for clarity, everyone in the group each got 1 weapon coffer and 1 chest coffer?

If so, that seems pretty fair to me, it's a rule I have used in my static for years, without issue, everyone gets 1 weapon coffer and everyone gets 1 chest coffer, priority goes to DPS first, then tanks and healers, as a token of fairness, tanks and healers would get dibs on the mount first.

If someone gets their BiS weapon via random drop, then they go to the back of the queue, because it's impossible to predict or plan for RNG other than move people to the back or the queue, but otherwise shouldn't screw people out of their fair share of loot.

Leftover weapons not needed for BiS are free roll where people at least have the job levelled that they can equip it unless someone specifically asked as they play said job.