We anticipate that even with this update, third parties will continue

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Originally Posted by Saraide

From what I understood about shady key resellers, chargebacks from stolen creditcards are actually very expensive on the company.

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The way to fix -that- issue is the same way every other business does it.
Require the name and address of the credit card to match exactly to the game's account holder.

In other words,
Jane Doe
123 Maple Lane
Ul'dah, Eorzea
12345

cannot use

John Smith
32 Privet Drive
Hogwart's, England
64321
credit card to buy her friend a mount.

Problem solved.

And the credit card processor SE uses (Inteligo? I think) DOES have the ability to compare them to make sure they match.

RIP our annual christmas event.

Why are we being punished for gifting friends? If they have this new fancy tracking system, why did mounts/minions need to be removed ?

Well consider me thoroughly baffled. I saw the friend list restriction coming a mile away but we needed item restrictions? I can understand why but man is it an odd choice when you would figure several other options would be better suited to combat RMT, especially when it is admitted this will probably only staunch it for a moment.

This is such a bad decision on the part of Square Enix. I understand them trying to crack down on RMT. Fraudulent credit card use and charge backs from credit card companies must be costing them millions. What I don't understand is their inability to adapt their "you already have this mount" scan to look at the account of the person to whom you want to gift a mount. I certainly know they lost a lot of money from me.

Theyll do this but they'll ignore bots farming Eureka for years, why with the passive aggressive punishment of players when they could actually act upon the minority? Get banned for placing markers outside an arena but leave your pc on for 6 months botting and that's absolutely fine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LyssaLittleBear

This is such a bad decision on the part of Square Enix. I understand them trying to crack down on RMT. Fraudulent credit card use and charge backs from credit card companies must be costing them millions. What I don't understand is their inability to adapt their "you already have this mount" scan to look at the account of the person to whom you want to gift a mount. I certainly know they lost a lot of money from me.

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Thing is, they say cause you might gift a mount or minion they could have.... but you also could gift a story or job boost they already have... or even an outfit they already have. It's insane honestly. It's a cop out.

Stupid change.

This was a choice.
Still gonna get the mount cause I've been waiting for this one but this was a choiceeeeeee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deebug96

Thing is, they say cause you might gift a mount or minion they could have.... but you also could gift a story or job boost they already have... or even an outfit they already have. It's insane honestly. It's a cop out.

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Why not tell people to go to their friends Lodestone and check what they have or don't have if you wan#t to gift them things.

And I mean SE. SE should tell people that the Lodestone shows Mounts/Minions a person has

Pretty ridiculous change, the mount and minion restrictions genuinely make no sense because if someone is close enough to you that they're on your friend list, then you can just ask what they do or don't have or check Lodestone. I know Yoshida has been saying to provide constructive criticism on the forums in the recent PLLs, but when they keep making these strange backwards decisions this expansion, I really don't blame people for getting heated.

So my one constructive criticism and piece of advice is—

Please look into implementing and utilizing player surveys like every single other major live service game does so that you can get direct feedback on potential changes, player/user use cases for current features you want to depreciate and-or replace and scrap this idea that the forums provide any meaningful feedback.

Nonsensical decisions such as this could easily be avoided if they actually looked to the player base and surveyed us periodically to see how features are utilized and ask for opinions on these things rather than pushing out the changes and waiting to see how angry the player base becomes over a bad decision. Its 2022, not the early to mid-2000s and its time to actually act like this game is being developed and run in the modern era.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Pretty ridiculous change, the mount and minion restrictions genuinely make no sense because if someone is close enough to you that they're on your friend list, then you can just ask what they do or don't have or check Mogstation. I know Yoshida has been saying to provide constructive criticism on the forums in the recent PLLs, but when they keep making these strange backwards decisions this expansion, I really don't blame people for getting heated.

So my one constructive criticism and piece of advice is—

Please look into implementing and utilizing player surveys like every single other major live service game does so that you can get direct feedback on potential changes, player/user use cases for current features you want to depreciate and-or replace and scrap this idea that the forums provide any meaningful feedback.

Nonsensical decisions such as this could easily be avoided if they actually looked to the player base and surveyed us periodically to see how features are utilized and ask for opinions on these things rather than pushing out the changes and waiting to see how angry the player base becomes over a bad decision. Its 2022, not the early to mid-2000s and its time to actually act like this game is being developed and run in the modern era.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of this! 100%
Yoshi... listen to Aniya!
She's better with words than I am.
I'm just angry!
#freetheminions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Pretty ridiculous change, the mount and minion restrictions genuinely make no sense because if someone is close enough to you that they're on your friend list, then you can just ask what they do or don't have or check Mogstation. I know Yoshida has been saying to provide constructive criticism on the forums in the recent PLLs, but when they keep making these strange backwards decisions this expansion, I really don't blame people for getting heated.

So my one constructive criticism and piece of advice is—

Please look into implementing and utilizing player surveys like every single other major live service game does so that you can get direct feedback on potential changes, player/user use cases for current features you want to depreciate and-or replace and scrap this idea that the forums provide any meaningful feedback.

Nonsensical decisions such as this could easily be avoided if they actually looked to the player base and surveyed us periodically to see how features are utilized and ask for opinions on these things rather than pushing out the changes and waiting to see how angry the player base becomes over a bad decision. Its 2022, not the early to mid-2000s and its time to actually act like this game is being developed and run in the modern era.

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Not only that but you can check their lodestone for mounts and minions collected before buying. I personally do this every time I buy something. I figured outfits would have this issue because there is no way to check that without asking the person as lodestone doesn't track that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Not only that but you can check their lodestone for mounts and minions collected before buying. I personally do this every time I buy something. I figured outfits would have this issue because there is no way to check that without asking the person as lodestone doesn't track that.

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I do believe I meant to mention that in the latter half of my first sentence, but said Mogstation instead of Lodestone. I have since edited that, thanks for pointing it out. It does seem weird to me that Lodestone tracks this, but somehow the online store can't be altered to tap into the lodestone database for this information? Though, I suppose there are likely security risks tying a store front directly to the game's database for player data, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

I do believe I meant to mention that in the latter half of my first sentence, but said Mogstation instead of Lodestone. I have since edited that, thanks for pointing it out. It does seem weird to me that Lodestone tracks this, but somehow the online store can't be altered to tap into the lodestone database for this information? Though, I suppose there are likely security risks tying a store front directly to the game's database for player data, etc.

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Oh no problem, I do find this all to be very perplexing and hopefully feedback will be taken into account here. I had intended to buy a friend the Lyse Leadership outfit as a return gift for something but I am now considering holding my money due to this choice.

The usual SE scorched-earth approach to RMT that ultimately does nothing to stop RMT and instead harms actual normal players.

I should be surprised, but I'm really not at this point.

I usually don't post on the lodestone but I feel I gotta add my weight to this thread and hope someone is listening.

Square, you don't need to kneecaps your players and gut giveaways to combat RMT. I don't know how they thought that was a good idea, but I really hope that this system will be reversed, or at least adjusted.

Maybe it would be possible to have a mogstation friend system, where you could friend people even if they have characters on different regions (as I've seen giveaways done on twitter, discord, and on twitch, not restricted to players attending an in-game event).

And even then - entirely removing the ability to gift mounts, emotes, bardings, orchestrion rolls, face paint, fashion accessories... But tales of adventure are still giftable?

Please someone at Square Enix do something :(:(:(

They should do that or even show a warning when you try to buy something the person already has. You can't even turn off your mounts and minions showing.

I think this will hurt SE's bottom line, but possibly less than the fraudulent purchases and chargebacks were. I think less people will use the mogshop now. It sounds like we can't just order something and get a code and then give the code to someone. Unless I'm misreading it.

Frankly, if I was going to gift someone a mogshop item in game, I should be willing to transfer them the cash and let them make the purchase (or keep the money).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I think this will hurt SE's bottom line, but possibly less than the fraudulent purchases and chargebacks were. I think less people will use the mogshop now. It sounds like we can't just order something and get a code and then give the code to someone. Unless I'm misreading it.

Frankly, if I was going to gift someone a mogshop item in game, I should be willing to transfer them the cash and let them make the purchase (or keep the money).

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You CAN just give the money

But dropping a code out of nowhere and in secret is fun and an actual surprise.
While I will just do that AND did it before for other things, it just feels... less personal

I know its a selfish reason but if it's a surprise it should be a surprise and not dropping money and like "here, for this exact thing, use it or not, who cares"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I think this will hurt SE's bottom line, but possibly less than the fraudulent purchases and chargebacks were. I think less people will use the mogshop now. It sounds like we can't just order something and get a code and then give the code to someone. Unless I'm misreading it.

Frankly, if I was going to gift someone a mogshop item in game, I should be willing to transfer them the cash and let them make the purchase (or keep the money).

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It's less about the who and more about the what.
If they were truly concerned about 'stolen credit cards' and 'chargebacks' then wouldn't they have fixed the 'credit card system' not restrict which items you can buy?

It is very clearly the items that RP venues and other ingame community events -give away- to people who attend their in game events that are being restricted... and literally -nothing- was done to fix who's credit card you're using to buy the items.
Just a bit fishy.

For a lot of people the act of giving an item rather than just cash is what gives it sentimental value. Also not everyone is comfortable with sharing bank details with people in the game (even if they know them for a while).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshDidit

It's less about the who and more about the what.
If they were truly concerned about 'stolen credit cards' and 'chargebacks' then wouldn't they have fixed the 'credit card system' not restrict which items you can buy?

It is very clearly the items that RP venues and other ingame community events -give away- to people who attend their in game events that are being restricted... and literally -nothing- was done to fix who's credit card you're using to buy the items.
Just a bit fishy.

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I highly doubt it's an attack on the RP scene because they'd just resort to banning people again like before. This is just their solution to the problem rather than forcing people to take a selfie with their ID or submit a photo of their credit card. I'd rather this than have to jump through hoops and wait on verification on their end to buy something at all.

Is it a solution that's going to make it harder for people to hold giveaways? Yeah, those might go out the door outside of gil related ones. But you can still send money to your friends to buy it themselves. Hell, that's a way to circumvent the entire thing so giveaways can still even go on.

I don't really see a difference in excitement between being given a code and being given $20 and being told I can buy the special thing I've been wanting.

An obvious L decision on a business standpoint for SE even but allow me to play devil's advocate and be happy that if this means this lessens the appeal of cashshop items then I'm all for it. We all know the evils behind cashshops in an MMO space and if they're this willing to somehow lose business over it I mean hey that's a win in my book

Well that kind of sucks, def feels like it's punishing the players who were gifting online store items.

So now I won't be able to gift my future hubby a mount, minion or emote. :c

Literally ALL my mogstation minions, mounts and emotes are gifts from friends and family and ALL the mogstation minions, mounts and emotes I've purchased have been gifts for others.

Absolute nonsense change. How are other games managing gifting systems fine, but a giant company like SE just punishes their players instead. What's going on with SE lately?

Hopefully the item restriction is temporary and they're working on a way to verify whether the recipient already has the one time use items. They have to know how much potential revenue they're going to be losing with the holidays approaching fast. The losses they ended up taking from that scam going around earlier this year must have been significant for them to be willing to lose the future sales.

I find it strange that they added costume sets to the list of gifted items. While costume sets aren't technically single use, there's also no point in having more than one of the same costume.

While it's nice they added this to the broader statement about RMT activity

Quote:

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We strongly encourage players to refrain from engaging with these groups, as there would be no reason for RMT vendors to exist if players do not use their services.

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it's a shame they don't seem interested in taking meaningful action against those players that are engaging in the RMT transactions. As long as there's no penalty to the player for purchasing from RMT, there will be players that make certain RMT stays in business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshDidit

That doesn't make sense either. RP venues literally give the items away with no expectation of any kind of 'reimbursement' other than 'be here and RP'.

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That's not true. There's PLENTY of venues who auction off mogstation items by having people pay a certain amount of gold to be included in the lottery pool for said item. "1 mil gil to join raffle for cruise chaser mount" for example. They even did it with the omega statue emote. It's a form of money laundering and low-key rmt.

This is a pretty ridiculous change.

Even more ridiculous is that Mog Station purchases are still not account-wide. C'mon, SE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Pretty ridiculous change, the mount and minion restrictions genuinely make no sense because if someone is close enough to you that they're on your friend list, then you can just ask what they do or don't have or check Lodestone. I know Yoshida has been saying to provide constructive criticism on the forums in the recent PLLs, but when they keep making these strange backwards decisions this expansion, I really don't blame people for getting heated.

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He meant the Japanese forums. They don't consider feedback from here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshDidit

SO you've basically punished the law/rule abiding players for what criminals have done

But... you ADMIT that the criminals will CONTINUE doing it?

And you've limited what we can give to our friends (of 72 hours or more) to the most ridiculous 'gift' items you sell? So.. I can no longer give my bestie a minion because some RMT scumbag bought one and resold it in game for gil? GIL?! PIXEL MONEY?

I am being restricted... over pixel money... and other people's criminal behavior that you ADMIT OPENLY they are still ABLE TO DO?

Why did you not just make it so that the items can only be bought with credit cards and make it so those credit cards have to match exactly the name and address on the account buying it?

THAT would have actually LESSENED the RMT activity of using 'stolen credit cards' to RMT mog items...

That would reduce the number of people reselling items because it can be immediately tracked back to the player...

All your 'fix' does is punish those of us who would never abuse the system to begin with.

A complete 'jerk move'. I do not approve. Let me give my friends minions again.

#freetheminions
sheesh

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I've heard nothing of these supposed widespread scams. While I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm guessing this is just an excuse to crackdown on people giving away shop items for free.

Congratulations, Squeenix. I didn't you could make your cash shop suck more, but you proved me wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

He meant the Japanese forums. They don't consider feedback from here.

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Never have, never will.

They sure like our money, tho.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Please look into implementing and utilizing player surveys like every single other major live service game does so that you can get direct feedback on potential changes, player/user use cases for current features you want to depreciate and-or replace and scrap this idea that the forums provide any meaningful feedback.

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Please list out those major live service games. I've been playing computer games for 40+ years and I've never seen an official player survey from any of the online vendors. An example of the player survey, complete with "do you think change X, which occurs on our out-of-game store will affect you", would be nice.

I do not consider the WoW PTR to be a "player survey", just in case that's what you had in mind.

It has been one poor decision after another. This new decision stinks because me and the person I am bonded too would give each other something from the shop for Christmas and the date we had the bonding. Not anymore it seems.

And they love upcharging the NA players compared to the EU players by at least $5 or so too. The street wear and fat cat sets are cheaper in the EU currency than USD. Both currencies are about a 1 to 1 exchange right now too so you can't even say it's a currency conversion thing. (Unless something has changed, but last time I checked EU pays $17 euro to our $22 USD for those sets)

Also yes, I'm in agreement with everyone else here. I was waiting for the gifting to come back because I have friends who don't have any of the dance emotes from the online store, and now they likely never will. This is the worst change and one that they openly admit doesn't actually prevent RMT.

But I also know they don't listen to us on these forums either so unless the JP forums are also complaining nothing will change. ☹️

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Please list out those major live service games. I've been playing computer games for 40+ years and I've never seen an official player survey from any of the online vendors. An example of the player survey, complete with "do you think change X, which occurs on our out-of-game store will affect you", would be nice.

I do not consider the WoW PTR to be a "player survey", just in case that's what you had in mind.

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I got a survey last year from the FFXIV devs because of how long I've been playing:

https://i.imgur.com/P3a0Nfk.png
(sorry for quality, the screenshot was huge and resizing it so it's not huge here tanked some quality)

I don't think the survey is active anymore, but it asked me things like what changes I would like to see in game, what they've done right, what they could do better on, etc.

Blizzard sent out some surveys regarding monetization for Overwatch 2 (though haha, their monetization sucks) before they finalized anything.

These are the only two I can think of off the top of my head that were recent, but game devs do this often. It's not every single player ever, but a smaller group of people usually.

Nice of them to announce/implement this change literally four days before my FC holds our All Saints' Wake glamour contest with a slated Mogstation mount as the top prize. Going to be real fun explaining that to an entire FC's worth of people who had their hopes up for that.

Like.. I get it, man, you guys want to tackle RMT and all, but as far as silly ways to go about it this definitely takes the cake. If anything this is just going to make things worse because RMTers will now request account access to provide the mounts/minions/etc instead of just... forwarding a gift code.

So what do we do now? "Grand prize gets $25 on Paypal to (hopefully) purchase the aforementioned item"? Dunno man, seems even more shady than the tacit acceptance that people will RMT mounts.

This change sucks. It's not going to stop anything (which they admit) and severely limits the things we can send to people.

Just in time for the holidays when these sorts of things were most likely to be sent.

This isn't even mentioning how common giveways and such are across the community. SE is getting more and more out of touch.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Hopefully. Yes.

Minions is certainly a weird one. They claim this is done to prevent someone getting a gift they already own. However, minions are clearly viewable on lodestone, so it's pretty easy for us to check if our friend has the gift first.

Hopefully they can smarten it up a bit and do some form of linking to check the recipient's unlocks.

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I actually bought a second emote for myself not realizing I already owned. Wasted 7 dollars and non refundable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

Nice of them to announce/implement this change literally four days before my FC holds our All Saints' Wake glamour contest with a slated Mogstation mount as the top prize. Going to be real fun explaining that to an entire FC's worth of people who had their hopes up for that.

Like.. I get it, man, you guys want to tackle RMT and all, but as far as silly ways to go about it this definitely takes the cake. If anything this is just going to make things worse because RMTers will now request account access to provide the mounts/minions/etc instead of just... forwarding a gift code.

So what do we do now? "Grand prize gets $25 on Paypal to (hopefully) purchase the aforementioned item"? Dunno man, seems even more shady than the tacit acceptance that people will RMT mounts.

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They'd probably prefer if you did that so it removes them as the middle man. It just confirms to me that they consider giveaways and contests as a form of RMT.

Doesn't RMT pay full price for codes?

I understand they discount the codes to get people to their sites and buy more than the items they're advertising from Mogstation but I fail to see how SE loses money form those initial sales. If anything it only reduces the sales from the honest people who can't gift their friends now. So how will it hinder RMT? I only see SE losing sales it made to RMT and now additionally to the community as a whole.

Someone please explain how this saves SE money and the reasoning behind it?