So, what is the hold up on Beastmaster?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If that's what people are envisaging for Beastmaster – summoning selected pets and having them use their signature attacks to fight for you – how is that any different in practice to BLU?

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I think the only real way to keep it separate from BLU is to go the Pokémon route similar to FFXI. Certain mob families dealt more damage to certain others. Maybe even add in elemental weakness. Essentially it was Rock Paper Scissors.

The problem/question would need to be does the BST a) charm monsters on the fly or b) have a set of monsters it can pull from or c) a mix of both.

And then, what is the gameplay loop…? In FFXI BST was a solo powerhouse, but that just isn’t a thing in XIV. It would almost need to be a mini game…

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...t_FFXI_Art.png

I assume Beastmaster would be another Blue Mage style of job.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Beastmaster as a playable job would definitely be that name only situation. I believe he's specifically thinking about that job when he makes that comment. Pet AI doesn't work well, especially in dungeons. There are versions of BST that would charm and nothing points to that even being possible here. Regardless of that, it would also be severely limited in many instances. What you're left with is just another melee job.

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There's an iteration they can fall back on for Beastmaster. Final Fantasy 5's version. It had only 3 real abilities.

The first was controlling monsters to make them do attacks for you in battle (not likely here). The second was capturing a monster that was at low health, something we TECHNICALLY already have in this game due to the quests where you have to use Sacks on weakened enemies to capture them. The third was unleashing that monster for a very powerful attack, and if I recall you could only release that monster once and then it was gone.

BSM could use a similar system here, to where it captures low level enemies and then unleashes them on their foes like consumables. Hell, Octopath Traveler did something similar with H'aanit and her ability to capture monsters, though she always had one specific monster available for use infinitely.

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Originally Posted by Johners

remove Blue Mage or just rework it into a normal job

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Going to digress a bit from the main topic but
I don't see why they just can't give BLU a second Job Stone so that they can essentially make a version that people can actually play it without removing the m̶i̶s̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ Limited version. Give them a different weapon if need like duel tomahawk or something closer to the Wheleqee theme

Can do the same for BST if the desire to have a version with the aspects that, for some reason, would chuck it into the Limited Job status is so great and have both versions wield different weapons.

Of course the big caveat of doing such a thing would very likely be expansions only having one new job, something that I'm not entirely against since the team are struggling making new jobs while also juggling trying to rework multiple old ones. And neither are really guaranteed to hit the mark anyway.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

The quote :
"Yoshida : Job names are especially tough. (laughs wryly) After all, there’s no point if a job is similar to its namesake in name only; its gameplay experience needs to match their pre-established design too. At this point, I’m thinking we have no choice but to come up with brand new jobs that haven’t appeared in the FF series before."

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Thank you; I knew I'd read it in an interview somewhere but could not recall which/where. That is in fact the precise quote I was thinking of, though it comes across as less an absolute than I was remembering it as.

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Originally Posted by Thaciscokidd

1) how to manage the pet in general. Do we get assigned a pet or do they let us catch em all per se.

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I mean, if they were to do it, I think it would come down to whether it was a limited or full job.

If it's a full job, they'd just give you some assigned pets at specific levels; if you had to go catch specific pets, then you'd see people on BST getting punted from parties if they didn't have the 'optimal' pet captured and trained. (Just like if you had BLU as a full job, people would demand you have specific spells and would kick folks who didn't.)

If it's a limited job a'la BLU, I imagine they'd have you capture pets much like you learn BLU spells, and would give you BST-specific challenges and content a'la BLU.

I actually like the idea of limited jobs. We have, as a playerbase, demonstrated that if a job is not as optimal as another job, we will at best shun and at worst actively exclude it from participation in things; witness, among other instances, people excluding certain jobs from savage parties this tier initially. We actively incentivize SQEX to try to balance all the jobs so that everything is equally viable -- even if this means they start to lose their unique flavor.

BLU as a full job would almost have to be just another caster -- you get X spell at Y level, like BLM or SMN or RDM, etc. I mean, you think people get upset when someone doesn't have a job stone after level 30, can you imagine the vitriol over BLU joining an alliance raid and missing entire chunks of the spellbook that people had decided were "critical"? (Or conversely, since all BLU spells are level 1, can you imagine how broken it would be to let a BLU bring their entire spellbook into leveling roulette and end up in Sastasha?)

In contrast, limited jobs -- jobs that are inherently not balanced to play well with others, jobs that get to break all the rules and do weird stuff without worrying about game balance and whatnot -- are their chance to break free of those shackles we as players kind of put onto the job balance team. To do something really just... weird and interesting, and maybe broken, but to have 'broken' be okay because that job plays in its own sandbox.

So if they did ever add BST, I'd absolutely want to see it as a limited job because that would let them go crazy with it and do something interesting. Otherwise, you get just "SMN, but with physical damage instead of magical, and with animals instead of carbuncles/egis" or something else that can be shoehorned into a specific role ("physical ranged", we'll go with) and then balanced to be roughly equivalent to everything else in that role.

However, many people have been vehemently opposed to the idea of even BLU as a limited job -- and have outright said, including in threads on these forums, that they'd prefer it just be another caster with pre-defined spells that was themed like BLU -- so while I do think we'll continue to see updates for BLU late in an expansion's life, I'm not so convinced we'll ever see another limited job.

Which is a shame, because I like BLU. It's something different and unique and interesting, even if it's off in its own little corner.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

However, many people have been vehemently opposed to the idea of even BLU as a limited job -- and have outright said, including in threads on these forums, that they'd prefer it just be another caster with pre-defined spells that was themed like BLU -- so while I do think we'll continue to see updates for BLU late in an expansion's life, I'm not so convinced we'll ever see another limited job.

Which is a shame, because I like BLU. It's something different and unique and interesting, even if it's off in its own little corner.

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Those people are fools who have not played BLU in its other iterations in previous FF titles. You put a list of reoccuring BLU spells together, and you're going to find a lot of stuff that does not fit with FFXIV's style. Blue Mage cannot work with the normal system of FF14 simply because it was originally created with the mindset of doing things nothing else can do. And in an MMO where everybody needs to do similar things, it cannot function. It could function in FF11 because everybody was rather unique there. Here, not so much.

My thing is, if this team is as AMAZING as everyone claims they are, adding a standard MMO pet class should be no issue, right?

ESO did it, GW2 did it, WoW did it, XI did it.......

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

My thing is, if this team is as AMAZING as everyone claims they are, adding a standard MMO pet class should be no issue, right?

ESO did it, GW2 did it, WoW did it, XI did it.......

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Uhh, keep in mind GW2's pet system is pretty bad. They had to do a lot of buffing of the pets just to get them at a usable level, and they used to die rather quickly during boss fights in raids (similar to summons here in FFXIV). They had to drop the AoE damage taken by pets by 95% just for them to function in raids, and had to make them immune to all environmental effects. Originally they could also aggro enemies just by existing.

Blue Mage should’ve been a normal job - concessions have been made for each job like DRK, RDM, and SMN without making them limited like BLU was. Keeping the job in its current state comes across as little more than a show of stubbornness.

Adding a limited Beastmaster would be…an extension of that and other attitudes that have reared their heads since this game’s short term success following the fall of WoW. Some of us tire being subject to the whims of a certain individual, especially when certain classes are treated special while Blue Mage is left to flounder the way it has since it was added, while others have been ruined at multiple intervals.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Those people are fools who have not played BLU in its other iterations in previous FF titles. You put a list of reoccuring BLU spells together, and you're going to find a lot of stuff that does not fit with FFXIV's style. Blue Mage cannot work with the normal system of FF14 simply because it was originally created with the mindset of doing things nothing else can do. And in an MMO where everybody needs to do similar things, it cannot function. It could function in FF11 because everybody was rather unique there. Here, not so much.

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I mean, there's a lot of jobs throughout the FF franchise that I love which will not work here. Whether because they just don't work well in a real-time versus turn-based environment -- I have no clue how on earth you'd bring Arithmatician into FFXIV without it being functionally a job sharing only the name, for instance -- or whether because it's a job that you just can't balance well against other jobs, and we as a playerbase have demonstrated we need the job-balance equivalent of padded walls to keep from rampaging around weaponizing party meta-composition against 'non-optimal' jobs.

It's why I like the limited job concept; they can break the rules and do Weird Stuff without worrying about "how will this affect the savage raid scene" or whatnot.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

My thing is, if this team is as AMAZING as everyone claims they are, adding a standard MMO pet class should be no issue, right?

ESO did it, GW2 did it, WoW did it, XI did it.......

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I would argue that none of them did it particularly well.

I would also argue that even leaving aside the balance issues, all historical evidence suggests that this particular playerbase is not particularly inclined to be content with really any possible implementation of pet jobs. Either we complain that the pet AI is terrible, or we complain that we have to control the pets and they're just visuals on abilities and not really pets... and let's be honest, we'd probably complain that you just get pet Y at level Z and there's no 'going out to catch them', or we would complain that you do have to go catch pets and now people are queuing into duties without the pets they should have (and that you should be forbidden from using roulettes on the pet job unless you have pet composition Q unlocked at level R), or...

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

not played BLU in its other iterations in previous FF titles.

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I have, that's why I have trouble buying this shtick that it needed to be limited. To take a snippet from the post above yours as an example

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

BLU as a full job would almost have to be just another caster -- you get X spell at Y level, like BLM or SMN or RDM, etc.

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Change the first spell WoL learns from a pitiful Water Cannon to Final Fantasy X's Lancet, IE using this would have you obtain the spell. One and done, don't need to see the spell in use like in Final Fantasy X. Absolutely no need to get rid of going out and hunt spells.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Blue Mage should’ve been a normal job - concessions have been made for each job like DRK, RDM, and SMN without making them limited like BLU was. Keeping the job in its current state comes across as little more than a show of stubbornness.

Adding a limited Beastmaster would be…an extension of that and other attitudes that have reared their heads since this game’s short term success following the fall of WoW. Some of us tire being subject to the whims of a certain individual, especially when certain classes are treated special while Blue Mage is left to flounder the way it has since it was added, while others have been ruined at multiple intervals.

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Ahh yes, because Level 5 Death WOULDN'T break most dungeons in the game. Being able to do more damage the lower your health was wouldn't have broken things. Being able to heal an amount equal to your current HP wouldn't have broken things. Being able to do guaranteed 1000 damage in lower level dungeons wouldn't have broken things. Being able to kill yourself to full heal an ally wouldn't have broken things, etc etc. All those things I mentioned by the way? Are Blue Mage STAPLES, meaning they're in almost every FF game with a Blue Mage. Removing them is akin to removing the Cures from White Mage, Flare from Black Mage, Bahamut from Summoners, Singing from Bards, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Winterfang

I have, that's why I have trouble buying this shtick that it needed to be limited. To take a snippet from the post above yours as an example

Change the first spell WoL learns from a pitiful Water Cannon to Final Fantasy X's Lancet, IE using this would have you obtain the spell. One and done, don't need to see the spell in use like in Final Fantasy X. Absolutely no need to get rid of going out and hunt spells.

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Then it still runs into the same problem listed, you'd have to know certain spells or you'd get kicked from parties instantly. We both know people can and WOULD kick if you didn't have X spell here, and we know people would not get spells because it's too much of a hassle. Quite literally, Limited Job was the only way this was going to work.

As a continuation of my previous post, I would like to remind others that “Beastmaster” and similar classes have usually been normal in most other mmorpgs. WoW’s beast mastery hunter being one of them.

I’d be fine if this is what we got from Beastmaster. Another limited job would only add more controversy to the game which it would be better off without.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/game/classes/hunter

Kupo <3 I could be wrong but I don't think Yoshi is fond of pet classes kupo <3 it just seems that way lol

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

So, what is the hold up on Beastmaster?

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Perfection takes time.

I've given up on Beastmaster, pretty sure was canned or just not wanted.

Devs. didn't like the pet system I recall?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Then it still runs into the same problem listed, you'd have to know certain spells or you'd get kicked from parties instantly.

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I double checked and literally nothing is stopping me from going into Aglaia and Pandaemonium Normal without a job stone, meaning I'm missing crucial abilities. I don't think people are going to be as kick happy some bring up, given how the playerbase STILLcoddles high level Sylphie, even up to Endwalker dungeons.
Now, when it comes to something like Extremes, Savages, Ults, and whatever you would classify as stuff with BA/DRs/ and other such content, then yeah some foresight on appropriate spells should be a given. But that is higher end content so it should be a given that if you want to take a job like that into such difficulty, then additional prep time for learning spells is not a heavy price to pay, especially when you're going to be capped at that point and can go back and easily learn spells you potentially missed.

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Originally Posted by Winterfang

Now, when it comes to something like Extremes, Savages, Ults, and whatever you would classify as stuff with BA/DRs/ and other such content, then yeah some foresight on appropriate spells should be a given. But that is higher end content so it should be a given that if you want to take a job like that into such difficulty, then additional prep time for learning spells is not a heavy price to pay, especially when you're going to be capped at that point and can go back and easily learn spells you potentially missed.

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I mean, leaving aside the "you only have Lancet, why are you in Aglaia" complaints that we would inevitably see on these forums eventually, for BLU to be viable in the savage raiding scene, you would have to gut the job. Because at that point it's not about "did you get the spells that are necessary", but rather "why would you bring any other caster".

With Magic Hammer you functionally have a second Addle (since BLU also has normal Addle), meaning they have significant potential raid utility there.

Then let's talk about some of what BLU can do healing-wise. You're in savage and there's a split tankbuster on both tanks...? The unharmed BLU with full HP casts White Wind and boom, both tanks have been healed for 63k health -- it's not quite a double Benediction, but it's pretty damn potent. Plus you've got Angel Whisper... sure, it's on a long cooldown, but one more combat rez is still raid utility.

Exuviation can be basically an AoE version of Esuna... and granted, most debuffs in savage are not cleansable that way, but MAN can you imagine how much in-demand BLU would be for Puppets' Bunker, to be able to instantly wipe away the Paralysis on everyone in a party?

Or let's talk about Avail. Party's about to wipe? Tank invulns, BLU hits Avail to transfer all incoming damage to the tank so they survive the big raidwide, then BLU uses Angel Whisper to rez the healer, who immediately slaps LB3...

Why would you ever bring a black mage into savage if you could bring blue mage with that much party utility?

In order to prevent the party meta from becoming "obviously you need a blue mage for your caster" and people refusing to let other casters in, they'd have to file off all the weird edges and rip out a bunch of the strange or unbalancing spells to make it more in-line with the existing casters... and at that point, you just have a caster who happens to have spells that share names with some enemy attacks.

And that doesn't feel like BLU to me.

And BST would, I suspect, suffer a similar fate if it were made a full job.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ahh yes, because Level 5 Death WOULDN'T break most dungeons in the game. Being able to do more damage the lower your health was wouldn't have broken things. Being able to heal an amount equal to your current HP wouldn't have broken things. Being able to do guaranteed 1000 damage in lower level dungeons wouldn't have broken things. Being able to kill yourself to full heal an ally wouldn't have broken things, etc etc. All those things I mentioned by the way? Are Blue Mage STAPLES, meaning they're in almost every FF game with a Blue Mage. Removing them is akin to removing the Cures from White Mage, Flare from Black Mage, Bahamut from Summoners, Singing from Bards, etc etc.

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This is so dumb.... Then don't add Lv5 Death? Also, no they're not. Just things you like about BLU, that wouldn't work here.

You're arguing in bad faith, moving on.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

This is so dumb.... Then don't add Lv5 Death? Also, no they're not. Just things you like about BLU, that wouldn't work here.

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FF5-FF11 and FFX-2 all have Blue Magic.

Level 5 Death: FF5-9. Five out of eight mainline games.
1000 Needles: FF5, FF6, FF9, FFX-2, FF11. Five out of eight mainline games.
????: FF5-FF7, FF9. Four out of eight mainline games.
White Wind: FF5, FF7-FF11. Seven out of eight mainline games.
Mighty Guard: All mainline FF games with Blue Mage
Transfusion: FF5, and FF6. Only two. This one I give you.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Why would you ever bring a black mage into savage if you could bring blue mage with that much party utility?

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By making it so that BLU doesn't do as much damage as a BLM, so yes some heavy potency nerfs can be expected. Now I'm not so naive that I already don't know that people throw a fit over parsing, and I don't give a moogle's fluff about that all that pointless Drama. Even if BLU was at the bottom, you'd still have people main it either because of design, aesthetics, background lore, ect. So long as it can actually participate and clear content without needing to give up major factors as to what makes it a Blue Mage (Mainly using spells from Monsters), don't see why so many are quick to dismiss it as "Not their Blue Mage" even when, despite it being Limited, it has already needed to make compromises.

And from all those possible scenarios that you listed, yes you're setting up some possibilities of "oh sh--!" moments that they can potentially saved by them. But is, for example, a BLU casting White Wind going to really be needed so long as healers are up and able to use their CD's or other spells in their tool kits so that the Damage Dealing Job (Assuming it would be a DD Job and not something like a chad Magic Tank if it was a real Job) doesn't have to stop doing their role and making the boss cry. Is saving the party from a wipe by using Avail really going to be the make it or break it as to whether or not a group will comfortably beat a boss? Likely not. It could happen, and I'm not going to say it shouldn't happen, but it's not something that convinces me that it needs to be limited. If something like White Wind is such an issue, then make some changes like a very very small CD (So you can't entirely spam it during parts where the boss is away and just pounding on the arena, and other scenarios similar to it) or increase the mana costs.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

My thing is, if this team is as AMAZING as everyone claims they are, adding a standard MMO pet class should be no issue, right?

ESO did it, GW2 did it, WoW did it, XI did it.......

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Pet classes are terrible in every MMO.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Pet classes are terrible in every MMO.

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An opinion which people are free to agree or disagree with.

The real hold up is that Yoshi-P isn't a fan of pet jobs. I believe he has stated or alluded to as much in the past. If the demand was high enough, he could probably make it work, but since he entertained the thought of adding Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as limited jobs, that isn't a good sign. If added, both BST and PUP should be full jobs.

I can see BST working almost like a combination of Summoner and Bard. You have one small pet by your side to start with, then you have three or so Call Beast actions with long cooldowns that summon a more powerful monster (like an adult griffin) that stays on the field for 20+ seconds. Perhaps each Call Beast action could be associated with different monster families and the specific monster called forth would be a cosmetic choice (along with the option to replace it with your small pet). This would give BST a reason to call a variety of monsters during an encounter instead of sticking with the specific one that is best for a given situation.

Your starting pet and the initial monster associated with each Call Beast action could be acquired as quest rewards, then any other monsters charmed out in the wild would be added to your collection as cosmetic choices.

This is just one example that is largely based on existing job mechanics. It most certainly could work, but at the end of the day, I think Yoshi-P would rather add non-pet jobs.

I'm almost more hopeful for PUP because I can easily imagine a take on the job that isn't pet centric by focusing on the magical aspect and borrowing inspiration from FFX's Lulu to drive home the idea of the puppet being the central focus of the job. The wind-up Lulu minion does refer to her as a "master of puppets" so I wouldn't call it a far fetched idea.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

This is so dumb.... Then don't add Lv5 Death? Also, no they're not. Just things you like about BLU, that wouldn't work here.

You're arguing in bad faith, moving on.

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It's not automatically "bad faith" just because they see something as necessary for BLU when you consider it optional. Neither are they just talking about that one spell.

It's a question of how many of those "it won't work so we just won't use it" decisions the dev team could make before it stops feeling like their vision of what they want BLU to be.

I mean, it's not like level 5 death is actually dependable at all for anything serious. No need to stop putting in gimmicky fun spells that really aren't going to be seen with actual use anyway when they keep making stuff immune to it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not automatically "bad faith" just because they see something as necessary for BLU when you consider it optional. Neither are they just talking about that one spell.

It's a question of how many of those "it won't work so we just won't use it" decisions the dev team could make before it stops feeling like their vision of what they want BLU to be.

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Of course it is bad faith. Since when does Thunder apply a DOT? Since when does Blizzard recover mana? These are inherent to only FFXIV, just like XIV's BLU should be.

If it's not bad faith, it's dumb logic.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

The real hold up is that Yoshi-P isn't a fan of pet jobs. I believe he has stated or alluded to as much in the past. If the demand was high enough, he could probably make it work, but since he entertained the thought of adding Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as limited jobs, that isn't a good sign. If added, both BST and PUP should be full jobs.

I can see BST working almost like a combination of Summoner and Bard. You have one small pet by your side to start with, then you have three or so Call Beast actions with long cooldowns that summon a more powerful monster (like an adult griffin) that stays on the field for 20+ seconds. Perhaps each Call Beast action could be associated with different monster families and the specific monster called forth would be a cosmetic choice (along with the option to replace it with your small pet). This would give BST a reason to call a variety of monsters during an encounter instead of sticking with the specific one that is best for a given situation.

Your starting pet and the initial monster associated with each Call Beast action could be acquired as quest rewards, then any other monsters charmed out in the wild would be added to your collection as cosmetic choices.

This is just one example that is largely based on existing job mechanics. It most certainly could work, but at the end of the day, I think Yoshi-P would rather add non-pet jobs.

I'm almost more hopeful for PUP because I can easily imagine a take on the job that isn't pet centric by focusing on the magical aspect and borrowing inspiration from FFX's Lulu to drive home the idea of the puppet being the central focus of the job. The wind-up Lulu minion does refer to her as a "master of puppets" so I wouldn't call it a far fetched idea.

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Puppetmaster is more feasible in this environment, as you could have puppets you take control of similar to how you mount up in those Rival Wings mecha.

I think BST would work extremely well as a limited job. It would open up a parallel gameplay style in the overworld (like BLU does), allow for completionist folks to have a checklist of monsters to capture, encourage map exploration (by having rarer or harder to charm monsters in remote areas), and introducing a monster arena/Pokemon-esque system would potentially draw in folks from the creature capture genre.

Conversely, I think it would work very poorly as a standard job, because - in my opinion - attractive pet classes allow for people to choose from a variety of different creatures to tame and use in combat. Standardizing that is difficult, and the dev team have made it clear that they prioritize standardization. I think that's awesome for the non-limited jobs, because it means you can play the ones you like without being punished for it, but it simply won't work for a class that's focused on taming and raising a variety of different creatures.

SMN barely counts as a pet class as is, and I wouldn't even count SCH as a pet class. The fairy is a lovely free heal, but she isn't a pet.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Of course it is bad faith. Since when does Thunder apply a DOT? Since when does Blizzard recover mana? These are inherent to only FFXIV, just like XIV's BLU should be.

If it's not bad faith, it's dumb logic.

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It's not bad faith or dumb logic. Blue Magic is all about learning spells that monsters use and then throwing it back against them. Monster abilities work outside of what is considered normal, and has and will break the normal rules of a FF game. FF5 alone had numerous ways to where BLU could just completely destroy the difficulty, and turn very hard enemies into jokes, something that every iteration of FF since then has had, at least in spirit. Even Quistis in FF8 had Degenerator, which instantly killed any non-boss enemy in the game. The job has always been quirky and simultaneously weak and powerful at the same time for that reason. Conforming it to a normal caster job is completely counter to the spirit of BLU, and at that point it's not a Blue Mage anymore.

That is the point I'm making. BLU can never work within the normal rules of FFXIV because it has NEVER worked within the normal rules of a FF game. It has always been an outlier.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Considering the weird mess that BLU is I don't think people would really want them to bring out BST. But... if they bring it out in a similar way to BLU, they can probably make it something for people to grind on.

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BLU raids are some of the most fun content in the game.

Probs the most diverse job in the game in terms of personal customization of gameplay.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

When the devs introduced BLU as a limited job, they made sure to make mention of BST in the same breath as "we're looking into other limited jobs such as..." and since BLU has a very... mixed opinion of it, I'm not really sure if they're going to continue with limited jobs. At this point, only the devs know if they'll keep putting money into a limited job, and if they'll bring out BST like that if they do.

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I can't speak for everyone on this, but for me personally hard-casting all day long isn't fun. I hate BLM for the same reason. Combined with BLU's mechanics being a bit on the convoluted side, it's no surprise that the reception has been mixed. Just from a sheer mobility standpoint I see beastmaster more likely to get positive feedback.

Forget about BLU. Nothing is changing with it and people enjoy it as it is.

As for BST, it doesn't have to be a limited job, but it still won't be a proper BST in this environment. Charm would have limited use across all content (if it could even function and serve a purpose) and we all know how poorly pets function in different areas. What you're left with is as Yoshi said, a job in name only.

Yep beastmaster and puppeteer were already mentioned as possible limited jobs. Primary reasoning wasnt so much because they would overpowered, devs believe these job would just be at a disadvantage to the other regular jobs since they require further work than the usual leveling up, aka capture/training monsters or craft/salavge puppets.

It seems to me that the game's engine / servers don't really play well with pet classes and the devs have pretty much given up on it, or Yoshi just hates that style, or a combination of all that.

Going around the world collecting pets sounds way too similar to BLU's gimmick. And... and I realize I might be exaggerating, I think they idea of "limited classes" has been abandoned.
I also think the chocobo battle companion system might have been a more flexible system at some point, but was probably stopped/abandoned, like a lot of stuff from ARR.

IF something similar to Beastmaster were to exist, I can imagine it two ways.
1- You actually turn into beasts during certain combos (so, more like we would imagine a druid-style class)
2- Beasts are just spell effects, like the Reapers voidsent, or like Summoner is now

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Yep beastmaster and puppeteer were already mentioned as possible limited jobs. Primary reasoning wasnt so much because they would overpowered, devs believe these job would just be at a disadvantage to the other regular jobs since they require further work than the usual leveling up, aka capture/training monsters or craft/salavge puppets.

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This is/was the main dev problem. They were concerned players might reach (level X) and not have (ability Y), which would make for an unhappy experience all around. There used to be a system where to play Warrior, you needed to level Paladin to get certain abilities (things like Flash, Provoke or Rampart). They have moved towards less abilities tied to quests and towards just giving core abilities automatically with levels. BST, if played in a way people want, would necessitate going out to find/catch/charm pets.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This is/was the main dev problem. They were concerned players might reach (level X) and not have (ability Y), which would make for an unhappy experience all around. There used to be a system where to play Warrior, you needed to level Paladin to get certain abilities (things like Flash, Provoke or Rampart). They have moved towards less abilities tied to quests and towards just giving core abilities automatically with levels. BST, if played in a way people want, would necessitate going out to find/catch/charm pets.

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If I recall, this happened back in FFXI where if you didn't have certain skills with BLU, you were kicked from parties or weren't allowed in them. They don't want a repeat of that.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If I recall, this happened back in FFXI where if you didn't have certain skills with BLU, you were kicked from parties or weren't allowed in them. They don't want a repeat of that.

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People already get kicked from parties nowadays when they show up and don't have/use necessary skills like Holy, etc or things from their job quests. I would've gladly taken a Blue Mage with an intricate job storyline that had us taking down beasts of legend with our mentor in order to learn their skills as opposed to being little more than some magician's errand boy. Bottom line is the effort to get into current Blue Mage doesn't match with its rewards or exclusive content on top of the restrictions it comes with.

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Originally Posted by Cach

IF something similar to Beastmaster were to exist, I can imagine it two ways.
1- You actually turn into beasts

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There's a job for that actually called Morpher

Of the two, the latter seems more likely

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Yep beastmaster and puppeteer were already mentioned as possible limited jobs. Primary reasoning wasnt so much because they would overpowered, devs believe these job would just be at a disadvantage to the other regular jobs since they require further work than the usual leveling up, aka capture/training monsters or craft/salavge puppets.

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Are the devs talking about adding Pup into XIV again? I pray they don't. XI's Pup class was bliss and I would rather not have the devs touch that system. I can already think about how they would "streamline" the automation frames for "balance". Leave puppetmaster alone XIV, you have blu. ;A;