Garlean Third Eye Customization option

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

And male Miqo'te are loners who rarely leave the tribe.

And male Viera are solitary forest wardens who seldom interact with anyone except to raise other young male Viera, or to breed.

Player characters break the rules all the time.

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To be fair, all of these are lore tidbits which aren't really made a big deal out of in the game itself, like no one ever questions why Erenville or G'raha Tia would be in Sharlayan.
By contrast every time a supporting character turns out to be a Garlean like Cid or Lucia it's always presented as a big reveal and they're treated differently for it by the game's writing as well as in their interactions with the Empire so the transition might not be as seamless for player characters. After all there's more than a handful of voiced lines where you're referred to as an Eorzean by imperials.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

To be fair, all of these are lore tidbits which aren't really made a big deal out of in the game itself, like no one ever questions why Erenville or G'raha Tia would be in Sharlayan.
By contrast every time a supporting character turns out to be a Garlean like Cid or Lucia it's always presented as a big reveal and they're treated differently for it by the game's writing as well as in their interactions with the Empire so the transition might not be as seamless for player characters. After all there's more than a handful of voiced lines where you're referred to as an Eorzean by imperials.

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There are other Garlean expatriates in Eorzea. Take Kan-E-Senna's personal guard, for example. One of them is Garlean pureblood. His heritage does not change the fact his current nationality is Gridanian, which makes him an Eorzean. Regardless of race, fighting on behalf of Eorzea is more than enough reason for imperialists or just about anyone else to refer to you as an Eorzean.

It is fascinating every time how some people are just against adding options to the game.
Seriously, if you don't want to play as a Garlean in case they add it, don't. Personally, I wouldn't either, but let others have their fun.

On topic, I think the EE screenshot Aveyond provided would give enough justification to add Garleans as a playable race or, as an easy to implement solution, a glamor item. The PC is already more than special, why not be a magic wielding Garlean?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Regula van Hydrus was shown to be capable of teleportation during the quest line he was involved in back in Azys Lla in Heavensward.

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He also summoned/conjured a Tiger like familiar during combat. They are resourceful enough to compensate their lack of aether with many tricks. Like Zenos aether infused weapons.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

There are other Garlean expatriates in Eorzea. Take Kan-E-Senna's personal guard, for example. One of them is Garlean pureblood. His heritage does not change the fact his current nationality is Gridanian, which makes him an Eorzean.

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Yes, but he's not a pureblood so no easily distinguishable third eye that might get him ostracized or even pursued by the empire for defecting.
I assume his identity as a former Garlean conscript is also kept a secret from regular civilliains, since they wouldn't have any reason to mingle in the personal life of the tree president's bodyguards.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Yes, but he's not a pureblood so no easily distinguishable third eye that might get him ostracized or even pursued by the empire for defecting.
I assume his identity as a former Garlean conscript is also kept a secret from regular civilliains, since they wouldn't have any reason to mingle in the personal life of the tree president's bodyguards.

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Let's assume for a moment you are correct in your assertion that he is not a pureblood. What about the Garleans known to have infiltrated the Eorzean population? Is their ability to roll up in there, complete whatever espionage mission they were sent on, and roll on out to be disregarded? It's as simple as hiding their third eye.

But returning to the topic at hand; if that man's original nationality was so readily hidden, what's to prevent the same for the WoL? After all, you do enter Eorzea riding in the back of a wagon if you're not a legacy player. Who knows where that character came from? Maybe they're of those rare Garleans capable of manipulating aether and happened to disagree with the direction of the Empire? We did after all learn from Drusilla and others that a not insignificant portion of the Garlean population strongly disliked the path the Empire found itself on prior to its destruction in Endwalker.

For that matter, who cares if it clashes? Au Ra had to be retconned in to make sense, and half of them are more supposed to be more bloodthirsty than most of the enemies we deal with over the course of the game. If SE is willing to throw down retcons left, right, and center, then why would it be considered wildly inappropriate for players to have access to a handful of Garlean customizations options on matching body types?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You might want to check what Reapers actually do again. And that entry is still not specific examples. Still waiting

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It doesn't need anything specific though; it says point blank "Garleans have little inborn ability to manipulate their body's aether, however, and thius the arcane arts have ever eluded all but a few". All but a few by definition means there are some, however far and few between, that can use aether.

There is no reason why the PC couldn't be one of those rare few.

That said, the only reason it wouldn't make sense in the story is because when friendly Garleans are revealed (eg Cid) it is something of a thing. I wouldn't even call it a big thing.... but it IS a thing. Most of these people make a point to hide their eye when in Allied areas.

...and THAT said, the elegant solution has been presented: make a glamour and call it something like "Garlean 3rd Eye Disguise". This makes it a non-story thing that RPers can use and enjoy without impact on the plot. The main character actually being a Garlean in-story creates a lot of potential subplots and questions that become too specific... like why wouldn't a significant group rally around an extremely powerful Garlean to try to put them on the throne as the new ruler, post EW? They clearly need a leader, and the Eikon-Slayer is absolutely on a power level of other world leaders.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Let's assume for a moment you are correct in your assertion that he is not a pureblood. What about the Garleans known to have infiltrated the Eorzean population? Is their ability to roll up in there, complete whatever espionage mission they were sent on, and roll on out to be disregarded? It's as simple as hiding their third eye.

But returning to the topic at hand; if that man's original nationality was so hidden, what's to prevent the same for the WoL? After all, you do enter Eorzea riding in the back of a wagon if you're not a legacy player.

For that matter, who cares if it clashes? Au Ra had to be retconned in to make sense, and half of them are more supposed to be more bloodthirsty than most of the enemies we deal with over the course of the game. If SE is willing to throw down retcons left, right, and center, then why would it be considered wildly inappropriate for players to have access to a handful of Garlean customizations options on matching body types?

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I mean, he doesn't have a third eye, it's not like he's trying very hard to hide it even if he did have one considering those pathetic bangs. Maybe there's some obscure piece of lore that says some pureblooded Garleans don't have the third eye or maybe he pulled it out with a knife? But at that point you're making far bigger assumptions than just "he's a Garlean but most people don't know about it which is why it's not a big deal".
The lack of the third eye is kind of imperative to the argument here. He was hidden because he doesn't have one, an hypothetical Garlean WoL would need to have one otherwise what's even the point of adding Garleans as a race? But then do you really think it'd make sense for people like Gaius to look at your character and dismiss it and even go as far as to call you a common Eorzean adventurer when it should be obvious to him that's clearly not the case?
And I did bring up the Au Ra in this thread, which I do think the way they were handled was a mistake if the intent was always to have them become a playable race. While it's true that it's a thing that happened and it's now forever a part of the game I don't believe that kind of short-sighted thinking from early in the game's lifespan should be used to justify repeating the same mistake again.
A glamour piece would be good enough I feel.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

I mean, he doesn't have a third eye, it's not like he's trying very hard to hide it even if he did have one considering those pathetic bangs. Maybe there's some obscure piece of lore that says some pureblooded Garleans don't have the third eye or maybe he pulled it out with a knife? But at that point you're making far bigger assumptions than just "he's a Garlean but most people don't know about it which is why it's not a big deal".
The lack of the third eye is kind of imperative to the argument here. He was hidden because he doesn't have one, an hypothetical Garlean WoL would need to have one otherwise what's even the point of adding Garleans as a race? But then do you really think it'd make sense for people like Gaius to look at your character and dismiss it and even go as far as to call you a common Eorzean adventurer when it should be obvious to him that's clearly not the case?
And I did bring up the Au Ra in this thread, which I do think the way they were handled was a mistake if the intent was always to have them become a playable race. While it's true that it's a thing that happened and it's now forever a part of the game I don't believe that kind of short-sighted thinking from early in the game's lifespan should be used to justify repeating the same mistake again.
A glamour piece would be good enough I feel.

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There is indeed a piece of lore noting Kan-E-Senna's guard to be a pureblood. I do, however, concede that his pureblood status creates several conflicts with other things from around that time, not the least of which being his ability to remain largely unmolested by the Gridanians even when viewed without a helmet or mask. Definitely some jank there.

The above aside, and more to the point; Garleans as of current lore are largely indistinguishable from other Hyurans unless their third eye is exposed. Gaius and most others would have no way of knowing the difference unless someone decided to just parade around with their extra organ on display for the world.

I'm not denying there would be a few issues. I am merely observing that, in light of how poorly most playable races have been handled, the addition of a handful of Garlean customization options wouldn't exactly come as any kind of major shock. Nor would it necessitate the addition of any text, given the player character (glamour notwithstanding) would have access to a helmet or other head covering at nearly any given time anyway. About the only thing it would really accomplish is making a not insignificant portion of the player-base quite happy. SE could even toss them on the Mogstation if they wanted to make some serious cash with very little investment.

The glamour route is a thought, but it would require more than one type. We've seen a few different styles of Garlean third eye. We've also observed that some Garleans have a body structure more akin to that of Elezen, necessitating the addition of rounded ears if the objective is to cover one's bases properly.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

There is indeed a piece of lore noting Kan-E-Senna's guard to be a pureblood.

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Is there? It's kinda hard to look for since he doesn't even have a name, but the short story where it seems like this piece of lore originated from makes no mention of the sort.

https://i.imgur.com/bqnnRaL.png

It wasn't from the short story. The text referring to him as a proper Garlean is in-game. This would also be one of the areas of conflict I mentioned in my prior post. SE had quite a few little mishaps like that floating around in the game. It was common enough knowledge that people used to argue about his in-game model's seeming lack of a third eye.

The third eye option it is good for the rp. But is not enough on the own. Sometimes the Garlean wearing the masks. Sometimes they wearing the sun glass. I like play the Garlean with the third eye but I can not find the monocle for it. Is sad.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It wasn't from the short story. The text referring to him as a proper Garlean is in-game. This would also be one of the areas of conflict I mentioned in my prior post. SE had quite a few little mishaps like that floating around in the game. It was common enough knowledge that people used to argue about his in-game model's seeming lack of a third eye.

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Maybe I missed it but it really doesn't seem like they ever call him a pure-blooded Garlean in-game.

https://i.imgur.com/RM3IVO4.png

Again, I have already conceded of my own volition the instances of him being referred to as a Garlean conflicting with other in-game text and events. At no point was this disputed. Nor am I disputing the rest of your assertions surrounding him.

What I am disputing is your apparent assertion that no in-game text refers to him as Garlean. I furthermore am disputing your assertion of there being no way for Garlean customization options to be integrated without conflicting. Rather curious you chose not to respond to those, instead focusing only on something I'd already made concessions on before you ever even got around to it.

Now, to try and steer this back before the thread gets derailed like most threads covering certain subject matter:
The reality is that, from a development perspective, glamour options would probably be easier to implement than additional racial traits. We've already got a pretty good idea of how obnoxiously difficult it is for them to do anything with the races, provided we take developer statements on the matter at face value. As nice as new customization options would be, requesting Garlean-themed glamour does seem far more likely to get the desired result. If not third eyes, hopefully we can at least get some proper Garlean armor now that they aren't the WoL's designated punching bag anymore.

While the EE says "the arcane arts have ever eluded all but a few" Garleans, the story in-game itself treats it as an absolute that they can't manipulate aether whatsoever with no exceptions. I was under the impression that line meant that despite the inability to manipulate aether, some Garleans were still able to study the arcane arts. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make technology to replicate and even supplant it. Even if we had a super special unique flower Garlean WoL, the MSQ treats even half-Garleans with scorn and pure Garleans like Cid hide their third eye 24/7. A Garlean pureblood running around without a care or dialogue makes little sense in ARR and even less in SB.

That said, I'm personally surprised we got no Garlean third-eye glam piece in Endwalker. One of my expectations for the Garlemald section of the MSQ was an infiltration mission like the ones we had in ARR and SB where we don a uniform. There could have even been snarky dialogue if you were something like a Lalafell, Miqo'te, Au ra, Viera, or Hrothgar with a fake third-eye. After we didn't get that, I thought they might at least throw it in as a bicolor tomestone reward. It would be extremely easy to throw in the game and satisfy a section of the playerbase. Perhaps even make creating a Garlean NPCs even lazier in the future if they just take a character you can make in character creator and slap the eye on them as equipment or a fashion item instead of having to create a face with the Garlean eye feature.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

While the EE says "the arcane arts have ever eluded all but a few" Garleans, the story in-game itself treats it as an absolute that they can't manipulate aether whatsoever with no exceptions. I was under the impression that line meant that despite the inability to manipulate aether, some Garleans were still able to study the arcane arts. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make technology to replicate and even supplant it. Even if we had a super special unique flower Garlean WoL, the MSQ treats even half-Garleans with scorn and pure Garleans like Cid hide their third eye 24/7. A Garlean pureblood running around without a care or dialogue makes little sense in ARR and even less in SB.

That said, I'm personally surprised we got no Garlean third-eye glam piece in Endwalker. One of my expectations for the Garlemald section of the MSQ was an infiltration mission like the ones we had in ARR and SB where we done a uniform. There could have even been snarky dialogue if you were something like a Lalafell, Miqo'te, Au ra, Viera, or Hrothgar with a fake third-eye. After we didn't get that, I thought they might at least throw it in as a bicolor tomestone reward. It would be extremely easy to throw in the game and satisfy a section of the playerbase. Perhaps even make creating a Garlean NPCs even lazier in the future if they just take a character you can make in character creator and slap the eye on them as equipment or a fashion item instead of having to create a face with the Garlean eye feature.

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isnt that already the case with the Garlean NPCs you do meet in the Garlemald zone? For the most part they're midlander Hyurs with the eye slapped in the middle of their foreheads, so the work is already half way there. I assume the facetype is still a custom model though

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

isnt that already the case with the Garlean NPCs you do meet in the Garlemald zone? For the most part they're midlander Hyurs with the eye slapped in the middle of their foreheads, so the work is already half way there. I assume the facetype is still a custom model though

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They seem to make unique face models for the Garlean NPCs, even if they're just midlander bodies and even if other than the eye, it looks like something you could make yourself. There's a website out there that has tools to let you look at character data for NPCs like Midas nan Garlond, but I'm not sure how kosher it is to mention or link it directly here since it goes into the behind the scenes data of the game.

The solution it is easy. They make the Hyur race with the subrace. The Garlemald becoming the subrace like the mid land and the high land. Is not the new race just the new face like the no eyebrow high land.

If this can not be done then make the new glamour spot to add the special item like the backpack or the third eye or the faking beard. If this also can not be done you make the tattoo option for the eye. So many way to make the rp more real.

Please do for the God King Solus.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

They seem to make unique face models for the Garlean NPCs, even if they're just midlander bodies and even if other than the eye, it looks like something you could make yourself. There's a website out there that has tools to let you look at character data for NPCs like Midas nan Garlond, but I'm not sure how kosher it is to mention or link it directly here since it goes into the behind the scenes data of the game.

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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it looked like the lion's share of random nobody pureblood NPCs we ran into in Garlemald were standard models using the usual assets, just with eyes stapled on. Now certain officers and other prominent story NPCs, yes, many of those were unique.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Not canonically

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Show me the single canon Warrior of Light in the game and you'll have a point.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Again, I have already conceded of my own volition the instances of him being referred to as a Garlean conflicting with other in-game text and events. At no point was this disputed. Nor am I disputing the rest of your assertions surrounding him.

What I am disputing is your apparent assertion that no in-game text refers to him as Garlean.

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So if there is in-game text that indicates he is Garlean, can you find it? If you don't have it on hand then none of us can be sure that the text really says that, or whether you are misremembering or misinterpreting it.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it looked like the lion's share of random nobody pureblood NPCs we ran into in Garlemald were standard models using the usual assets, just with eyes stapled on. Now certain officers and other prominent story NPCs, yes, many of those were unique.

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I don’t think you’re following me here.

The fact they have the eye stapled on without a special item equipped means it’s a “unique” face. Behind the scenes most of them have no head item equipped but have a face unavailable and unseen to us in character creator, which to us may look completely the same as a normal hyur, but they have the eye. For example, one Garlean NPC could have complete midlander body and head we can make in character creator, but in the data, they’re using “face #13” because the Garlean eye is a manually added facial feature due to spaghetti code.

They obviously give more care when making more important Garlean NPCs, but the rest still have a “unique” face in the actual game data in order to have the eye.

This needs to happen! Plus, for the elezen, just make their ears round when they wear the third eye. Instant immersive Garlean. :3

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Is there? It's kinda hard to look for since he doesn't even have a name, but the short story where it seems like this piece of lore originated from makes no mention of the sort.

https://i.imgur.com/bqnnRaL.png

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Directed less at you specifically than the whole "is he isn't he debate"; as your link points out:

The boy Kan-E-Senna cured is referred to as a Hyur from Garlemald and not of the Garlean race. It's important to differentiate that there are Garleans (the race) and Garleans (the nationality).

Story from official site (Ameela's link)

Excerpt (bold for emphasis):

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Clad in armor of the same unholy steel as the magitek monster which had entombed him, the Hyuran youth met Kan-E-Senna’s gaze. Not yet a man grown, there he lay, bloodied and battered on this godsforsaken battlefield.

...

Kan-E turned about with a start. Before her stood a young Hyuran in leather armor of the purest white—one of the Keepers of the Entwined Serpent, the Elder Seedseer’s personal honor guard, established in the wake of the Calamity.

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If you want that Garlean third eye, your only option is.....


Lalafell Dunesfolk

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Originally Posted by Pablomaldito

If you want that Garlean third eye, your only option is.....


Lalafell Dunesfolk

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Tape a Lalafell to your forehead and fake it?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Regula van Hydrus was shown to be capable of teleportation during the quest line he was involved in back in Azys Lla in Heavensward.

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Are you trying to pass off his obvious Megaman style tech based teleport as aether manipulation? LOL

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Originally Posted by A_Cat_Man

I think Hyurs should have a Garlean third eye customization option. New races aren't going to be added to the game, so I feel like it would be nice if this could be added. The two arguments I can see people giving towards this are "but garleans can also have an elezen body type" and "it wouldn't make any sense in terms of story". As far as the body type, I can't really argue against that, but something is better than nothing. As for it not making sense story wise, the main characters never acknowledge your character's race anyway, so I feel like it wouldn't really matter.

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Someone hasn't been paying attention. They have multiple times mentioned your race and even class. As playing as a reaper in the newest questline Y'shtola brings up I already have a contract with a voidsent and that it's an equitable relationship but should understand that I am the exception.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Says the need to teleport

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Or the fact, y'know, the Garleans are heavily despised in Eorzea and there was a whole questline in the MSQ about Garlean refugees or the Lemures who are also discriminated against. Would also wreck the main story when aside from aether manipulation when if you're a pureblooded Garlean you don't need to stealth around strongholds or impersonate conscripts when you could waltz in as a member of their citizenry.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

Someone hasn't been paying attention. They have multiple times mentioned your race and even class. As playing as a reaper in the newest questline Y'shtola brings up I already have a contract with a voidsent and that it's an equitable relationship but should understand that I am the exception.

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Addressing your class isn't a problem with what I'm saying, and I cannot a recall a single time that they actually address your race in the game. If there is a moment like that, please direct me to it so that I can see what you're talking about. On top of that, I'm not saying they should make a hole other race, I'm saying they should add a third eye customization option to hyurs for the purpose of fun, meaning that even if your race was addressed in game, you would get called a hyur.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

Or the fact, y'know, the Garleans are heavily despised in Eorzea and there was a whole questline in the MSQ about Garlean refugees or the Lemures who are also discriminated against. Would also wreck the main story when aside from aether manipulation when if you're a pureblooded Garlean you don't need to stealth around strongholds or impersonate conscripts when you could waltz in as a member of their citizenry.

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Wait, first of all the Lemures come from a side quest away from the main story, and second of all you're going to say that you could waltz into any imperial base as a full blooded Garlean, while also bringing up the Lemures who are garleans that abandoned the empire and came to Eorzea seeking refuge? I don't think they wouldn't keep track of their soldier's faces and names. All you have to do is look at the cutscene from the very beginning of the game with Nero killing a spy to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by A_Cat_Man

Addressing your class isn't a problem with what I'm saying, and I cannot a recall a single time that they actually address your race in the game. If there is a moment like that, please direct me to it so that I can see what you're talking about. On top of that, I'm not saying they should make a hole other race, I'm saying they should add a third eye customization option to hyurs for the purpose of fun, meaning that even if your race was addressed in game, you would get called a hyur.

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They adresse races a couple of times throughout the expansions.

In Heavensward there's a guard in Ishgard that thinks lalafell are weird and can't be trusted, once he see you are one he fumbles with his words.

In Shadowbringers there's plenty of that, when you visit the crystarium for the first time, the NPC Bragi adresse you by your race. In my case he says he is surprised to see a dwarf not in the mountain.

And in Endwalker, when Emet Selch gave you aether, Hythlodaeus is laughing because Emet selch didn't make us big enough.

There's plenty of other instances like that, in MSQ and side content. At least enough for it to be noteworthy in my experience.

Just off the top of my head, when chasing Laurentius around the Shroud in the mid-20s, he calls out for backup to deal with "the [race] [bastard/bitch]" from his Garlean allies.

There are also a few points in the Azim Steppe where a Xaela gets a few bits of extra dialogue, such as a comment that surely your parents made this traditional Xaela food for you.

And, not MSQ, but during the Monster Hunter quest, if you act surprised at a talking cat as a Miqo'te or Hrothgar, the felyne will call you on it.

While the script does (sometimes but not always) make reference to your race where it is relevant, this is always in small ways that simply change one or two lines while the rest of the script plays out the same for everyone.

Dealing with the question of why a Garlean should be trusted feels like a bigger deal that would call for a specific conversation with everyone you meet, and require someone else trusted to vouch for you – and we meet a lot of people over the course of the game. It's not the same as an NPC who is always Garlean regardless and only needs to be introduced to you once.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

They adresse races a couple of times throughout the expansions.

In Heavensward there's a guard in Ishgard that thinks lalafell are weird and can't be trusted, once he see you are one he fumbles with his words.

In Shadowbringers there's plenty of that, when you visit the crystarium for the first time, the NPC Bragi adresse you by your race. In my case he says he is surprised to see a dwarf not in the mountain.

And in Endwalker, when Emet Selch gave you aether, Hythlodaeus is laughing because Emet selch didn't make us big enough.

There's plenty of other instances like that, in MSQ and side content. At least enough for it to be noteworthy in my experience.

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Thank you for reminding me of those, I'll admit, my memory is definitely not perfect. However, I still don't think it would be bad to give hyurs a third eye customization option. Or even just a glam everyone could wear that would give us a third eye. I saw someone give that idea in an earlier section of the thread, and honestly, I'd be fairly content with that.