Do people on these forums only complain endlessly?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

They absolutely do not. They want to be heard and have opinions validated somewhere. Reddit won't suffer it, so they come here. :p

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Sorry to burst your bubble here but the people who dont care about the game have left the forum. Because there's no reason for them to stay if they dont care.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Sorry to burst your bubble here but the people who dont care about the game have left the forum. Because there's no reason for them to stay if they dont care.

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The trolls don't necessarily care for the game but stay subbed in order to troll and bait on the forum. But I'd agree with the assessment that people who do write here for legitimate reasons, do care.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Sorry to burst your bubble here but the people who dont care about the game have left the forum. Because there's no reason for them to stay if they dont care.

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People don't care about the game they want the game to catter to them regardless how bad for the game what they're asking for is. People who left the game are people smart enough to move on with their life and not crack addict that hate every feature in the game but still pay.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

The trolls don't necessarily care for the game but stay subbed in order to troll and bait on the forum. But I'd agree with the assessment that people who do write here for legitimate reasons, do care.

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Yeah I’m sure there’s one or two that are legitimately trying to help raise awareness to problems in the game, but they’re typically the exception, not the rule.

The forum is mostly the same old trolls doing the same old trolly things. Then there’s the continuous chorus of nay sayers, drama queens, and just generally negative people.

I had hoped it would be better than other community forums, but it’s up there with them.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

People don't care about the game they want the game to catter to them regardless how bad for the game what they're asking for is. People who left the game are people smart enough to move on with their life and not crack addict that hate every feature in the game but still pay.

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You disagreeing with those people doesnt mean they dont care for the game. You wouldnt ask for a game to change if you didnt care about it. You would just leave.

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Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa

Yeah I’m sure there’s one or two that are legitimately trying to help raise awareness to problems in the game, but they’re typically the exception, not the rule.

The forum is mostly the same old trolls doing the same old trolly things. Then there’s the continuous chorus of nay sayers, drama queens, and just generally negative people.

I had hoped it would be better than other community forums, but it’s up there with them.

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At least it's not as toxic like wow forums. That's always something lol

We could use more up front toxicity imo. Most of the toxicity here is lame, petty snipes and passive aggression.

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Originally Posted by Sigma5

The datamining complaint is wild, like yall wanna suffer hours on mechanics instead of developing strats right off the bat. uh ok bro.

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To be fair, raiding used to be all about "suffering hours on mechanics" to develop the strategy and achieve a sense of accomplishment when your group finally succeeded. Whether people with the opinion that data mining's "ruining" raiding are old-school/boomers, crazy, and/or simply prefer to go blind and figure things out through trial and error is up to interpretation. Personally, I believe the prevalence of data mining's done a lot to decrease my enjoyment of raiding as common opinion is people should read a guide/watch a video and memorize it before going into a raid to better bash through it as efficiently as possible. Now that I say this, in my opinion, it's a game-wide phenomenon, not just a raiding thing.

The best times I've had raiding were back in Vanilla WoW when the forty of us bashed our heads against encounters, developed our strategies, and had a massive cheer-fest when we finally succeeded. I'll prefer this method over all others for as long as I play MMOs.

You just added to it since you complained yourself :p

If i'm honest, I'd much rather see threads about people's concerns about the game rather than situations like the subreddit, with low-effort screenshots, memes, cosplays, fanart, etc.

https://imgs.search.brave.com/9XV_d2...Bo/eS5naWY.gif

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

We could use more up front toxicity imo. Most of the toxicity here is lame, petty snipes and passive aggression.

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Gonna have to agree here. It's infinitely better when the hostility is in your face and open about it. Instead, in the FFXIV forums we get people who insult and denigrate you while pretending to be sweet little angels. If you're gonna be a smarmy, insufferable prig; I'd at least you be feckin' honest about it. The deception and double meanings here are infinitely worse than WoW could ever be.

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

"Endwalker is badly written because it didn't go the way I wanted it to. Also, I love the genocidal mass murderer."

"Island Sanctuaries are bad because it's not instanced housing. There's nothing to do after picking up 9700 nodes to reach rank 10 in the first week. What's a workshop?"

"Datamining has ruined the game. These debuff icons reveal everything about the savage raid and will ruin progression. I don't do savage raiding though."

"Why do you say "first time" in a new instance?"

"I got rescued once so please remove the ability from the game. I can't handle losing control over my character. I'm the main character, nobody should be able to mess with my movement but me."

"Crafting is too easy."

"Crafting is too hard."

"Removed from Ex4 by Japanese group. Racist. I queued into a duty complete group and got removed for not knowing what to do."

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It is a national sport for some.

Nah, it's really just a few ppl of the negativity brigade who poison the discussions and start most of those threads. Makes you miss TitanMen, actually.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Makes you miss TitanMen, actually.

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No. All those threads they started, and many of the resurection posts they did, were so badly done that it can't be called trolling as that insults actual trolling.

As for the amount of negative posts....if it's actual feedback in a way that actually promotes civil discussion, there really is no problem with it. When it's flat out insulting anyone/everyone that likes certain things, then it's not even worth giving them the time of day.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

No. All those threads they started, and many of the resurection posts they did, were so badly done that it can't be called trolling as that insults actual trolling.

As for the amount of negative posts....if it's actual feedback in a way that actually promotes civil discussion, there really is no problem with it. When it's flat out insulting anyone/everyone that likes certain things, then it's not even worth giving them the time of day.

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Bro did you seriously just disrespect our Lord and Savior TitanMen on this most holy of days?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...080/3qzub2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Theodric

No, a lot of posters just like to make strawman arguments and personal attacks towards anyone who is invested in the game and using the forum for the intended purpose of providing feedback.

I've been posting on these forums since the early days of ARR and have met a great many wonderful players through these forums. It's really a matter of curating one's personal experience, learning how to politely agree to disagree and recognizing which posters are only there to stir up trouble.

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Theodric is absolutely right in what he says. I absolutely love this game, do I thing some things could be better? yes for sure. Do I think some people nitpik yes I do. Do I think that the developers look at their creation with a critical eye yes I do and I also think they want everyone to have a fun experience regardless of ability. People just need something to pick apart so they don't have to think about anything bad things in their own life. It's game therapy I guess.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Gonna have to agree here. It's infinitely better when the hostility is in your face and open about it. Instead, in the FFXIV forums we get people who insult and denigrate you while pretending to be sweet little angels. If you're gonna be a smarmy, insufferable prig; I'd at least you be feckin' honest about it. The deception and double meanings here are infinitely worse than WoW could ever be.

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Man, I really miss late 90s/early 2000s internet. Sure beats everyone being passive aggressive because no one wants to get banned for breaking a fragile ego. lol

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Bro did you seriously just disrespect our Lord and Savior TitanMen on this most holy of days?

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Wait, I thought it was titanwoman. Is this one of those Nald'thal sort of things?
*scratches chin curiously*

It has certainly been... interesting, spending a bit more time at these forums of late and seeing the debates firsthand! I used to post a bit during my original time in ARR but only started playing and reading social sites again last year or so. Mostly I have been lurking but my love of the lore has caused me to creep out of the shell more. No community is ever perfect and exaggerated complaints have always been present (Pretty sure I have seen people here declare they will cancel their subs due to tooltip changes) but negatively is as important aspect feedback. It certainly seems however that things have taken a turn for the worst of late in regards to constructive criticism. Most notably veiled personal attacks are an toxic techniques hidden behind niceties are deployed far more openly now, which really feels uncalled for. I remember the lore forums used to be a rather chill place, and they should really be a venue where one could openly talk about any aspect of lore… now the same arguments just seem to repeat over and over with rising ardour. Say what you will about Endwalker and its story, but the passion it has brought out of people is impressive! I think there are many people on both sides of the pendulum that would like to debate themes and stuff in a more civil way, but feel they cannot for whatever reason, which is a shame.

It should be noted that I do not think this is a unique thing to this community, it seems to have been the norm in almost every social space or forum I have attended. Its very interesting in a way, and disconcerting. It is always worth remembering too that we are all just a very small minority of players who actually bother to find a social media site or forum and speak out. Whilst the people in-game are not perfect in anyway either, I have found it perhaps the most friendly and less intimidating community I have experienced over my twenty or so years of MMO gaming.

Also something that made me really happy recently was the fans over on Twitch managed to get a Chicken at a petting zoo near London named after Zenos during the pre-6.2 Mogchute Farm Livestream… that gave me pride in the community!

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

*Looks at the OP complaining*
You know... You could have a made a non complaining thread. Just sayin'. lol

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Ding ding ding. :)

Ah, yes. A discussion forum with no actual discussion on it. The ideal we must all strive for.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Man, I really miss late 90s/early 2000s internet. Sure beats everyone being passive aggressive because no one wants to get banned for breaking a fragile ego. lol
*

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We got what we wanted. A world where no one is ever mean to you until you walk away, then you get completely trashed.

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Originally Posted by Cach

Ah, yes. A discussion forum with no actual discussion on it. The ideal we must all strive for.

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There's a difference between discussion and endless bitching. Do people really have to come to the forums to complain about the fact that they can't pass a solo duty in the endwalker campaign?

When every other venue for discussing or sharing experience about the game are cult-like Yoshida worship echochambers where people literally try to shoot down and hide negative feedback, the people who really want a place to share their disapproval or vent end up gathering in the ONLY place they won't be down voted til their comments disappear and find others who don't think the game is all sunshines.

And before anyone brings up "the other sub"... The only differences between the two subs is that the so called "better" sub is raid-centric and doesn't spam Miqo'te fap art.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

When every other venue for discussing or sharing experience about the game are cult-like Yoshida worship echochambers where people literally try to shoot down and hide negative feedback, the people who really want a place to share their disapproval or vent end up gathering in the ONLY place they won't be down voted til their comments disappear and find others who don't think the game is all sunshines.

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And it's on the game website's main forum. Now THAT'S irony~! lol

Ofc some are hyperbole but some just complain because they care...

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

Do people on these forums only complain endlessly?

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You forgot the legendary bard performance macro hater.

People complain to get attention.
That's why so many of the complaints are hyperbolic if not downright dishonest -- to provoke a response.
Many of the complaints are just barely distinguishable, if at all, from outright trolling.

Yeah OP they should just rename this form to "Karen Discussion" rarely anyone ever comes here because they actually love the game and just want to talk about it, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

"Endwalker is badly written because it didn't go the way I wanted it to. Also, I love the genocidal mass murderer."

"Island Sanctuaries are bad because it's not instanced housing. There's nothing to do after picking up 9700 nodes to reach rank 10 in the first week. What's a workshop?"

"Datamining has ruined the game. These debuff icons reveal everything about the savage raid and will ruin progression. I don't do savage raiding though."

"Why do you say "first time" in a new instance?"

"I got rescued once so please remove the ability from the game. I can't handle losing control over my character. I'm the main character, nobody should be able to mess with my movement but me."

"Crafting is too easy."

"Crafting is too hard."

"Removed from Ex4 by Japanese group. Racist. I queued into a duty complete group and got removed for not knowing what to do."

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It would be difficult to find someone who creates a forum account, log into and make a post stating: "I like X and Y, thank you so much!" and other genuine positive posts. I'm not saying they don't exist, it's just they're way fewer than cases where someone is bothered by something in-game and try to find somewhere to vent, whine, complain and discuss about it.

Most of the complaints are very petty. most legit arguments I've seen are actually in the job/class discussions. For example, I'm not a healer main but I can share some sentiments for the complaints there about healer rotations being too boring when there's no healing to be done.

I can't relate to the Kaiten threads though. I didn't play SAM before 6.0 so I don't know what it was like. (I'm not much of a SAM player either, so therefore, I don't touch those threads.)

Most of what's on Gen Discussion is just children screaming into the void. Some are froggy enough to try and interact with it but it almost never works out because proving people wrong doesn't shut them up.

I, like many of the millions of other subbed players that enjoy this game, are just staring back.

I could speak more but I think everyone's opinions on everyone else's attitudes will suffice. So i'll just leave it at this.

At its highest reading ever, the site that takes regular surveys of the player population registered 1.7m active characters - its more recent ones are at 1.3m. Where's the "millions" here?

There are a few bad apples moaning and griping at everything. You could give them an envelope full of cash and they would moan because the envelope had a wrinkle in it.

You can glean some great info off the forums if you don't mind wading through the trash

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

There's a difference between discussion and endless bitching. Do people really have to come to the forums to complain about the fact that they can't pass a solo duty in the endwalker campaign?

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Yes, this is the official forums. Most people here only come to post when something is so obnoxious or frustrating for them in game that they come over to make an account and post about it.
No one comes to the official forums in any game to post only positive things, they go there to post negative things they want changed.

I come to the forums to be a bully.

I goddamn love complaining, don't you take it away from me

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

"Endwalker is badly written because it didn't go the way I wanted it to. Also, I love the genocidal mass murderer."

"Island Sanctuaries are bad because it's not instanced housing. There's nothing to do after picking up 9700 nodes to reach rank 10 in the first week. What's a workshop?"

"Datamining has ruined the game. These debuff icons reveal everything about the savage raid and will ruin progression. I don't do savage raiding though."

"Why do you say "first time" in a new instance?"

"I got rescued once so please remove the ability from the game. I can't handle losing control over my character. I'm the main character, nobody should be able to mess with my movement but me."

"Crafting is too easy."

"Crafting is too hard."

"Removed from Ex4 by Japanese group. Racist. I queued into a duty complete group and got removed for not knowing what to do."

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all game forums are for endless complaining. they are full of counterpoint trolls seeking only to be offended, complain about the game/devs, and argue with other people. just like voidsent they are driven by one purpose alone, to suck the fun and enjoyment out of everything.

Honestly, it's mainly the dozen or so people (aka The Complain Squad) who complain incessantly within their own echo chamber. Rule of thumb: it's usually the opposite of what people inside the game say. :D

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Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

Do people really have to come to the forums to complain about the fact that they can't pass a solo duty in the endwalker campaign?

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That sounds like a golden opportunity to talk about solo duty design, how has it changed over the years, if it has gotten better or worse, which ones are your favorite, etc...

How does an ideal discussion forum look like? Because if you just want "I drew my lalafel, my wife's boyfriend thinks its neat" threads, the official subreddit is just a click away.

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Originally Posted by Cach

my wife's boyfriend.

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Hol' up wait a minute.