6.25 to introduce Rank Demotion. Do you think this will help or hurt the overall PvP

People will throw matches intentionally to be demoted so they can have some a rousing round of newbie smashing.

It happens in EVERY game you can rank down in.

It's a good thing but it needs to be added across the entire tier list along with rank decay. It keeps things competitive.

De-ranking is fine, but I don't really think it will help anything overall. It may actually hurt queue times for the higher tiers. Lot of 0 ranked crystals, but at least my queues were fast.

They should add ranks below bronze, or at least track negative stars in bronze 3, I want to see how low I can get.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

People will throw matches intentionally to be demoted so they can have some a rousing round of newbie smashing.

It happens in EVERY game you can rank down in.

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People already do that by playing on alt characters or by going into casual

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Derp, Season 3 not 6.25


https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...127&height=630

I personally think it's a bad thing because one of the better points was the lack of Demotion as it encouraged casual people to pick up CC.

I'm sure the hardcore pvp folks feel differently, but PvP has always been niche content in FFXIV and CC really opened it up to a new audience.

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Demotion happened regardless of rank or skill level; if a player lost too much because of bad rng they still got sent back all the way to bronze.

The real issue is the match-making and that there will never be enough players to match separately with a independent tier system, which is what CC actually needs; but it would break the queues because again- simply not enough people playing PvP actively to support such a system.

The demotion system itself is what really needs to go; because that's what screws up the match-making as it doesn't pit people in the same skill levels. Unranked/Bronze/Silver should realistically be it's own queue bracket. followed by Gold/Plat, and then Diamond/Crystal. But this is all in a perfect world where there is a surplus of players to support the queues to be separated like that- plus being random matched with complete strangers has it's own issues.

I feel like so many issues would be eliminated if the dev team just relented and let people party-match with FCmates and friends in unranked/Ranked. Other mmorpg's with pvp systems have done that for years and the worse thing that happens is what? people complain?

People are already complaining, so what's the harm? All this random system does is force people into situations of cheating, because the system is too random to allow for legitimate coordinated efforts WITHOUT cheating.

Don't we already have demotions based on losses? I've just begun with PvP so, I'm very low on the rankings and I've not lost enough to see a demotion, but I figured once your stars go to 0 you get booted to the earlier rank.

Anyhow, casuals will just play casual matches. Seems only logical, your rank should represent your skill as much as possible. Not how much you queue, no?

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

I feel like so many issues would be eliminated if the dev team just relented and let people party-match with FCmates and friends in unranked/Ranked. Other mmorpg's with pvp systems have done that for years and the worse thing that happens is what? people complain?

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This is kinda the main reason I don't pvp often anymore. I'll probably unlock crystal again in season 3 and then just farm the series battle pass in unranked on raid nights. I'm just kinda over solo queuing pvp at this point. Its pretty much why I also never really bothered with arenas in swtor. I'd rather queue up with friends in warzones than solo queue all night in ranked.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

Don't we already have demotions based on losses? I've just begun with PvP so, I'm very low on the rankings and I've not lost enough to see a demotion, but I figured once your stars go to 0 you get booted to the earlier rank.

Anyhow, casuals will just play casual matches. Seems only logical, your rank should represent your skill as much as possible. Not how much you queue, no?

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Currently no. You can't de-rank out of a tier. This new system is basically saying that the early ranks will stay the same as before, but plat>diamond>crystal can throw you back into the previous tier if you lose a star at the 5 level.

It will make me even less likely to do ranked.

If I were to play ranked, I would be annoyed. A way to keep people playing to try to gain rank, I suppose, in theory. Will probably end up with a lot of frustrated players. However, this is normal in other games.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Demotion happened regardless of rank or skill level; if a player lost too much because of bad rng they still got sent back all the way to bronze.
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The way it is now is that if you're in Gold tier, the lowest you can go is Gold 3 and you can't de-rank into silver if you lose 20 times etc. Once you reach the next tier, that's where you stay.

I think ultimately de-ranking will bring a hell of a lot of toxicity into Crystaline Conflict and will just push people to Casual. PvPers get pretty upset when they lose rank / status.

So nothing is being done to address the problems on the low end of the ranks. I'm not surprised in the least.

Way too little, way too late. Screw CC.

It's going to be a mess.
I'll just do CC to get the Series rewards and then don't bother again.

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Originally Posted by rance-sama

It's going to be a mess.
I'll just do CC to get the Series rewards and then don't bother again.

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Why bother with CC? Just do frontline. I mean you're not gonna win in either case.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Why bother with CC? Just do frontline. I mean you're not gonna win in either case.

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Hey, come on now. Individual effort is a lot more important in CC and the matches are much faster.

As someone who doesn't partake in pvp, I would have thought if you are gonna add demotion you would want to add in ranking decay along with it to encourage the people that achieve the higher rankings to continue playing instead of encouraging people to get to their higher ranking and just stop pvping.

This is the result of them being tired of dealing with all the wintrading reports.

SE be like season 1 was too successful, we must make less people play cc so we can reintroduce meaningful top 100 rewards.

Rank demotions should start from gold and onwards, Nothing more painful than going from silver to gold, getting trapped by hardstuck players and being demoted over and over again.

Or atleast let us queue with friends for NON-Ranked PVP. Then i will never touch ranked again.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

SE be like season 1 was too successful, we must make less people play cc so we can reintroduce meaningful top 100 rewards.

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What even is this post? The people that never played ranked Feast and had the chance are ultimately to blame for not getting a ranked Feast reward.

I mean they do some good but it's still a big way ahead of things that need to be fixed and improved outside of job balance.

This change should be already done before they released the Ranked-system or at least they had do a pre-season just to fix this mess.

Now they just pick the old feast system back with some adjustment (no more derank for all tiers) and idk what they hoping for. Sure its still better than nothing and the right direction but its already so late i have serious no clue what take that long for this.

One of the ideas of a ranked system is to get fair matches or matches where players with similar skills play vs each other. So all players have some kind of simellair win chances.

Right now you just see a dia 3 or some lucky crystal player in these matches and know its fast over and you dont even have a chance to do something. R100 is even stalled now because everyone know how awful this matches are with the current mm and the fun behind is zero.

For me the hole SoloQ ranked system should be removed. A community based tournament or from SE suppored tournaments are much better for this mode than this mess. If you just enjoy this mode just que up for causal with a hidden ranking system or w/e.

They should have introduced it at the start of CC or not at all. If it was built in already that is one thing, but we're two seasons in, there is no need to introduce it. I was loving ranked, but Square has severely disappointed me with this move.

It feels like Square is trying to run before they're even walking, Crystalline Conflict is fantastic and PvP in this game is hitting a spike in interest. However, Final Fantasy XIV is a community that has grown vastly over the past couple years, and revitalizing PvP was an outstanding and well needed step. But they only just redid it, they haven't given it enough time to grow and find it's legs within the community as a whole. I wholeheartedly disapprove of this move and am extremely disappointed and demotivated to continue pvping. Ranked isn't everything in the world--but it is to some an extremely important aspect of pvp. For me, ranked in other mmos was an impossibility, toxic communities driving me away. They have done much to prevent that here, but by changing the system two seasons in, they're in a way, invalidating the first two seasons and what that meant to people branching into ranked pvp for the first time. I reiterate that I feel they should have done this in the beginning if they were going to ever do it, not now. Overall, I greatly dislike this change and hope they reconsider.

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

Hey, come on now. Individual effort is a lot more important in CC and the matches are much faster.

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Either you're not playing the same game mode as me, or you're just deluded.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Either you're not playing the same game mode as me, or you're just deluded.

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Literally everyone complains that the random diamond 3 player ruins the match in Crystal so I would say that most people agree that individual performance is very important :p

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Originally Posted by Renalt

People will throw matches intentionally to be demoted so they can have some a rousing round of newbie smashing.

It happens in EVERY game you can rank down in.

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I thought of this as well. It will also make paid boosting specific characters MUCH easier as you can now downrank to their rank and boost them from there.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I thought of this as well. It will also make paid boosting specific characters MUCH easier as you can now downrank to their rank and boost them from there.

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Except now repeated throwing will make a character derank and matchmaking won't put them together with the boosted character.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Except now repeated throwing will make a character derank and matchmaking won't put them together with the boosted character.

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Even with the new mm there's still the tried and true way of queueing during "off times" for the datacenter for Boosting

but ehh

they had a lightning in a bottle moment and it looks like they're going to squander it and let all the same shit that Feast rank devolved into happen to CC as well

Demotion is good, it's tiring having to always play with the same people who don't deserve to get Crystal rank and stay bad without trying to improve. If you're afraid of demoting you probably don't deserve to stay in Crystal anyway. Just try to improve.
It will also make some shady stuff a bit harder to do.
The PvP changes they annouced were very good, but tbf it should have been like that from the start. I wish now that diamond players couldn't get matched with Crystal, or at least only from d1.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

This is a bad road. Please don't do derank like this. I understand the need for a decay but not like this. It took me forever to hit Crystal rank last season. Now it's so much worse. This might have just killed PvP for me. I'm not looking forward to being in Diamond tier and dropping all the way to Silver. I feel punished for not getting lucky in this RNG crowd control fest.

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You can't even demote to Silver. Come on if you can't even read a simple graphic properly, maybe you can't read your tooltip either and that's why you struggle to climb.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Deranking is a bad idea and there really needs to be a bigger outcry over this. This is a awful and horrible idea. Getting to Crystal rank is stressful and hard enough. Especially with bots and cheaters. All this will do is entice people to cheat further. Don't do this SE, please do not do this. The ranking was fine as is, you did not need to change it. Like did anyone seriously complain anywhere "Gosh I wish I could get deranked because I lost~" no if anything, I heard the opposite, people getting less tilted because they weren't deranked when they finally endured to the next tier. PvP was finally getting attention, but this is a good way to deter people from playing it more. DO NOT PUT DERANK BACK.

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Seriously just stop crying and get good. "Oh no the game will punish me because I'm not good enough in a ranked mode" zzz. If you're not confident enough, play Casual, keep practising. If you struggle to reach Crystal then you must be doing something wrong thats all, sorry.

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Originally Posted by KiraShalen

You can't even demote to Silver. Come on if you can't even read a simple graphic properly, maybe you can't read your tooltip either and that's why you struggle to climb.



Seriously just stop crying and get good. "Oh no the game will punish me because I'm not good enough in a ranked mode" zzz. If you're not confident enough, play Casual, keep practising. If you struggle to reach Crystal then you must be doing something wrong thats all, sorry.

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Someone decided to wake up this morning and thought to themselves "I'm kind of bored what should I do today? Oh I know! I'll be toxic on the forums today and give unhelpful, unmeaningful advice and tell someone to get good because I can't be bothered to come up with any actual solutions or contribute anything meaningful to any topic! Saying stop crying and git good is the best I can come up with to support a bad game design!"

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Originally Posted by KiraShalen

You can't even demote to Silver. Come on if you can't even read a simple graphic properly, maybe you can't read your tooltip either and that's why you struggle to climb.



Seriously just stop crying and get good. "Oh no the game will punish me because I'm not good enough in a ranked mode" zzz. If you're not confident enough, play Casual, keep practising. If you struggle to reach Crystal then you must be doing something wrong thats all, sorry.

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dumpsterfire.gif But sure, I suppose it is a good troll reply. Really riles up emotions of those caught unawares.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Someone decided to wake up this morning and thought to themselves "I'm kind of bored what should I do today? Oh I know! I'll be toxic on the forums today and give unhelpful, unmeaningful advice and tell someone to get good because I can't be bothered to come up with any actual solutions or contribute anything meaningful to any topic! Saying stop crying and git good is the best I can come up with to support a bad game design!"

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I'd be glad to help if people would be willing to improve instead of crying on the forums. Any good player gets to Crystal and a decent rating easily. So if you can't, trust me or not, but you're the main issue. I'm not saying that to be "toxic". Yes theres RNG and you need to be lucky sometimes, but complaining about that in low tiers/at low rating is obviously wrong. But I'd try my best to give "helpful advice" if you'd tell what cause you issues in the mode or if you record your games.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Someone decided to wake up this morning and thought to themselves "I'm kind of bored what should I do today? Oh I know! I'll be toxic on the forums today and give unhelpful, unmeaningful advice and tell someone to get good because I can't be bothered to come up with any actual solutions or contribute anything meaningful to any topic! Saying stop crying and git good is the best I can come up with to support a bad game design!"

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Welcome to The Official FFXIV Forums. Enjoy your stay.

Any player could easily make it to Crystal at the start if they just played enough games, which seems to be the problem. Ranked PvP needs there to be people at all tiers based on skill level and percentiles with movement up and movement down. If anyone can get to crystal and stay there if they play enough games, then it's not ranked matchmaking it's just another PvE grind like Relics or Hunts.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Someone decided to wake up this morning and thought to themselves "I'm kind of bored what should I do today? Oh I know! I'll be toxic on the forums today and give unhelpful, unmeaningful advice and tell someone to get good because I can't be bothered to come up with any actual solutions or contribute anything meaningful to any topic! Saying stop crying and git good is the best I can come up with to support a bad game design!"

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Responding with valid criticism (even if they forgot to put the honey in the medicine! lol)with hollow snark doesn't mean they are wrong. The issue is the fact that your personal success depends on 4 other people who may or may not put that extra effort you are putting into mastering your PvP counterpart class. I agree with the other poster, if they added a metric and carrot on a stick system for your personal performance then you would solve the initial problem while slowly fixing the bigger issue of low player skill in PvP depending on the metrics that the game tracks when it adds up your personal performance. If a seasonal goal was "defeat X amount of opponents", or "push the crystal X yalms", or "cap X amount of checkpoints" then you would slowly see player performance rise due to the fact those goals will force the player to "git gud" or forfeit those personal seasonal goals and the rewards tied to it. See SE, ezpz. lol

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Any player could easily make it to Crystal at the start if they just played enough games, which seems to be the problem. Ranked PvP needs there to be people at all tiers based on skill level and percentiles with movement up and movement down. If anyone can get to crystal and stay there if they play enough games, then it's not ranked matchmaking it's just another PvE grind like Relics or Hunts.

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If that were true, I'd be in Crystal right now.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If that were true, I'd be in Crystal right now.

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If you still can't get Crystal, then it's simply a skill issue

Demoting out of crystal makes sense, but I think also letting you demote out of diamond sucks.

https://i.imgur.com/qafgiL5.png

personally
while I appreciate some official discourse about the issue of cheaters/exploiters
I'm not a big fan of encouraging further community witch hunting either

However
if this is the road they're going to take
as opposed to say hiring dedicated staff to monitor random samples of ranked matches throughout the day with perhaps priority to monitor accounts that have been "flagged" due to receiving player reports
then go all in and give us the tools necessary to better monitor and report shenanigans ourselves

for example a spectator mode
if I were to enter into spectator mode then I'd automatically join matches as an observer and could set up my system to record while I'm afk and then be able to scrub the content and upload any nefarious activity I observed later at my leisure

also to make it so spectator mode couldn't also be "gamed" with multiple accounts the number of spectators allowed to be present in a match should be set fairly high and there should be a blatant indicator to the players in the match that there are spectators present
however just that and not the actual number of spectators or the identity of the spectators