When BLU was revealed, they specifically said that their damage calculations do not take weapon damage into account at all, and that there is a higher weight on intelligence than other caster's to compensate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Unless there is testing that was done that I missed, I see no reason to believe that there was deception in that statement.
EDIT: and the weapon damage variance at 70 is so large that a 15% increase doesn't feel like it can cover the difference.
An Empty Vessel........
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08-11-2022, 01:14 AMIrenia
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08-11-2022, 02:13 AMDeverynIt would do more damage. When you look at handling the ex / sav content, there's a lot of int potion usage which makes for some good bursts. Keeping INT off the weapon keeps things under control. It's not just to keep the fight from going too fast, but also allowing the tank to hold aggro. All it would take is one poorly timed burst to get the group cleaved and wiped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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08-11-2022, 02:34 AMBrightamethyst"It's bad" and "I don't like it" are two very different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
BLU may not be what you want it be but that doesn't make it failed content. -
08-11-2022, 02:58 AMMistyMew
My main in ffxi is BLU.
I wish so much this game would make the job a real functioning job that we can play like any other.
It is such a waste of time having one in this game ..wtf are you thinking se?? O.o
we need blu 100% a regular job
and throw a CARBON COPY (not your own version) of ffxi BST while you are at it...we need it fun :)
many thks -
08-11-2022, 03:11 AMJeeqbitIt does take weapon damage into account, it's just that the weapon damage is 1 (the minimum possible).Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenia
I interpret the "increased weight on intelligence" to be the traits which buff the damage and healing potency beyond what it does for other casters. This has the effect of buffing intelligence. -
08-11-2022, 08:37 AMEnjudenBLU got boo'd live at fanfest. The first and ONLY time they got immediate negative feedback at a fanfest by the way. Just because you want to live under a rock doesn't make the statement not true. A company that got something like that, for the first time in 5 years would probably take a step back. But SE didn't for some odd reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightamethyst
It failed the moment it got announced as a limited job, but the people like you who continue to support a bad decision and terrible design choices makes SE double down on it when it should have been ax'd in development and never seen the light of day as a limited job. -
08-11-2022, 08:52 AMDeverynHowever it was received, they clearly got the right feedback on it and made the necessary improvements. The devs and proper BLU agree that it should stay out of certain content, especially ultimates. Some people have a problem with that. Too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enjuden
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08-11-2022, 08:55 AMVelvet_Lunarfang
I would say if BLU is just a job that is dying. Let's just pull the plug and get rid of it . It's a waste of resources and data. Would I wish it be like BLU in FFXI yes I would will it ever no.
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08-11-2022, 08:56 AMEnjudenLiterally nobody is asking for BLU as it is to be brought into current content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
People wanted it as a full job before it was brought up to be limited. As it is now, it would have to be entirely destroyed then remade from the ground up to be something usable in end game content. Which is what most but a few loud minority want. -
08-11-2022, 09:12 AMDeverynWho said current? I said C E R T A I N. Maybe that's a freudian slip on what you'd like to see. I know people would love to see it in Endwalker though. There's plenty of commentary out there about how it's fallen behind or been left behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enjuden
edit: found a direct quote "It is not worthwhile currently with it being an expansion behind."
The job doesn't need any kind of rework done and should stay on its current path. It requires minimal updates. This allows the devs time to work on other projects, like I dunno... another limited job maybe? That's definitely something people have asked for. -
08-11-2022, 09:30 AMEnjudenThen we'll agree to disagree. It's as simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
I believe all who ask for limited jobs are fools and want further dev time wasted to throw away jobs instead of have them be used for the majority of the player base instead of a subsection of a subsection of players.
They want to appeal to MAYBE 1k players at most? They will not make the same mistake twice by making a second limited job, I can guarantee you that. -
08-11-2022, 11:13 PMIreniaIt would also buff determination in particular, which I don't think it actually does. Again, 1 point of weapon damage has such a huge contribution to BiS calcs that something else has to be going on under the hood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Actually might do some testing comparing differentials between BLM and BLU in level 50 sync content when I get home.
But to be on topic, BLU is awkward for me, since as I said elsewhere, my affinity to BLU is pure mechanical identity, and making it into just another casting class would kill all innate interest in the job; I get no thrill just by wearing job gear or casting classically BLU spells, unless they were gained in a weird way, which standard job design cannot allow. Of course, the rotation might win me over, but there is nothing innately BLU about a rotation if you get what I mean.
Personally, I just wish that current BLU got as much attention as, say, Ultimates get. Just a bit of things once or twice a patch to engage those diehards with a new experience, even though most people won't really interact with it.
It's not a popular opinion, but I like what I like. -
08-14-2022, 03:26 AMMonsutaMan
[QUOTE= Meaning we're likely not getting GEO. But who knows if we'll one day get Beastmaster, since they teased that in Bozja and it doesn't look that similar to Arcanist.[/QUOTE]
Hope
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5149VNVBJ0L.jpg
Reality
https://spng.pngfind.com/pngs/s/79-7...from-final.png
They screwed up SMN at one point, and that is the flagship class.
My image of BST is taming Diresaur and Wyverns in the wilds, but it will mostly likely be 10% of the total bestiary we can use imo....Another clown show for the Carnival. -
08-14-2022, 03:32 AMDeveryn
Current SMN should be a major hint to the likelihood we're NOT getting BST. Pet AI just doesn't work for offense.
It would be hard to make it as cool as Lyon. -
08-14-2022, 04:32 AMZanarkand-RonsoThey could still make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveryn
But sadly it might have to become a Limited Job for it to happen. Might have to make it another separate Single Player or Niche playing experience. -
08-14-2022, 04:37 AMDragonFlyySMN was screwed up since day one. It shouldn't be a pet class, it should be a black mage with the ability to summon large high damage summons and then they poof. Like every other Final Fantasy Summoner until they broke the design in 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsutaMan
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08-14-2022, 06:08 AMBrightamethystI still feel like they blew their best chance to "fix" SMN back in HW.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsutaMan
Painflare could have been Thundershock with a Ramuh animation. Tri-Disaster could have been Acid Rain with a Leviathan animation. Ruin 3 could have been Ice Lance with a Shiva animation. Enkindle's animation could have transformed the Egi into the primal to do the attack (a la HoH magicites), etc. It would have been a really simple and easy way to add the classic summoner feel while having absolutely no effect on gameplay or balance. It was the perfect opportunity, and they missed it. -
08-14-2022, 06:22 AMDeverynNah. Unfortunately, pets have always been tricky in MMOs and pet classes end up suffering at one point or another because there's some encounter where it's better for the health of the group / raid for the pet to not be up. There's the extra step of balancing the pet's DPS versus the owner. What we have right now with existing pets is the best case scenario of just popping in for a bit. Anything persistent will be a support option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
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08-14-2022, 03:44 PMShougun
Coming from someone who had a substantially negative view of Blue Mage at release, and was one of the few asking for it since 1.0, I think they've listened to a lot of feedback and corrected a lot of major flaws since. I can't say I don't dream they gave it a normal job treatment, particularly 'advanced' wherein the limited and normal exist at the same time (but such an idea isn't really cost effective lol)... So I do appreciate they've adjusted a number of elements that fell through and so it's a much better state than perhaps what people initially thought of it.
So I'd give it a chance, and particularly with a few directions to make that chance likely go better:
Get Basic Instinct, if you can have a friend or PF help you get mimicry and a cure like pom cure. Perhaps an oGCD primal spell if your friend is feeling generous.
Now you're going to sail through a lot of content and enjoying the job will be easier / more likely.
That said.. I think its a sign that, and said before in other threads, but the 1 to 50 experience needs more love. For people who were powerleveled or went as groups I imagine the experience wasn't that bad to 'fun', but my experience solo leveling without any glitches was.. "1 to 50 was boring and unrewarding" (and I don't mean that in a hyperbolic I want to hurt someone's feelings way)... Then I waited some time because I was honestly stressed with "what have they done to my boy" feelings (though I was missing some of the more party mode only spells).. when they added basic instinct I felt their attempts to bring more players in and listen to feedback was sincere so I tried it again myself. Such tools made it a lot easier to ascertain spells solo and once you get mimicry and a heal your survive-ability goes THROUGH THE FREAKING ROOF. Then it became a lot more fun.
I strongly believe adjustments could help smooth out the experience and just make the job more interesting overall, primarily by revamping some of the older spells to be .. more interesting. For example 1k needle was important for leveling quickly but was a key part of my boredom early on, meanwhile other spells felt even worse because they were just significantly less damage non-combo spells.. Then you might compare what 1k needle felt like to Ultravibration which is a really nicely designed spell added later. Ultravibration responding to multiple debuffs, giving purpose to other spells, not having a chance based system (% based spells are soul draining experiences, imo), and also had a cooldown to keep some semblance of "op balance" (which is good, should feel strong but not 1 button win). I wish they had such concepts for other spells, like just make Death work but on some sort of cooldown or unique mechanic. Or like in a thread, because I make feedback with earnest, perhaps might combo with another spell that helps greatly improve % based spells (I think I used Faze as an example).
Before mimicry and a instance specific heal white wind is similar, where you just cast it over and over and due to the design can often be more frustrating (it's super powerful but to be the exclusive support skill to rely on for a long time is not fun as it becomes particularly spammy in certain situations). Another example where I think the early experience isn't quite in the right place. Though the potential power is the gameplay and cadence of growth is not.
Some modifications might bring down the strength of blue, but imo would be an opportunity to bring up the strength of other spells. For example if you gave 1k needle a cooldown other spells around that time frame would be buffed, meanwhile might also give it something else depending on cooldown duration like if it's short... then don't but if it was like 30 seconds or something might give it a cactuar shuffle buff which greatly increases your movement speed like cactuars sort of behave in the FF series.
A thing that greatly perturbed me, in a petty first world way, that I hope they might address, is also ensuring some of the spells they introduced are either equally interesting or more interesting than their legend / counterpart. As that I feel justifies the job being limited. I was, really, really, annoyed that Fire Angon and Angel Whisper were so limp to be honest.. Of course a lot of it relates to the dream of wanting to play Blue normal, and then being told it needs to be limited because it needs to be true to form and then getting non-true to form much worse variants of spells really got me in a tizzy. The job is VERY powerful, but I would appreciate if it was ensured all spells were treated with "equally interesting if not more" strict type of rule set. I don't mind blue mage has a cooldown on their raise, but perhaps if you're healer mode it raises you without debuff and full health, and if you have basic instinct on you can cast it on yourself which will give you auto-raise.
One thought also is to avoid stationary spells, like toad oil or "worse" mimicry- by that I mean spells that sit like a passive to not do much else. Perhaps there should be a passive slot if that's what they're destined to do, otherwise it would be nice for passive acting skills to be active and passive. For example Toad Oil you might as well have it up 24/7 like protect or shell... but that isn't super interesting (which is why they were removed), so an alternative suggestion is having toad oil equipped gives you a boost to evasion and now using toad oil is a buff to debuff duration / fire aspect spells (w/ cooldown).
Mimicry could just be a special button within blue mage UI that you unlock and have always on, being able to self toggle your role in the UI (never turns off, unless I guess you told it too). I think the idea of targeting someone was actually neat roleplay but it's just a bit too frustrating (can maintain the roleplay elsewhere). Such that perhaps you can unlock each role by targeting X unique roles and then it just remains unlocked in your passive UI (doesn't take a slot or what have you).. Could even add to it like Ninja Mimicry has slight customized bonus vs Bard Mimicry (unlocking a mimicry being some sort of mini-quest for blue but then you have it for life), perhaps you spend tokens earned from the carnival to buy mimicry plates so they gamify the unlocks a little. Basic Instinct could go here too... though I do like the clever bit they added if people are dead (another example of the 60+ spells having an extra element of ..."pizzazz" that I really appreciated).
Mentioned before how a lot of casting time spells would feel substantially more interesting if they were instant, or brought something else to the table.. Like Gloom could be instant cast or perhaps removes a debuff on self too (self esuna teleport).
Particularly gameplay wise there is a group of spells that had me frown pretty hard, even though they're exceptionally potent... and I know Blue Mage in sRPGs had elements of this but one thing I think they need to consider is those games allowed you to play other members of your party. You don't get to play other people here, you just play you and when you take that character out of business through whatever concepts... it just feels like you don't get to play. So I feel those type of spells are particularly egregious and don't need to be the way they are even if they are intended to still remain powerful, their designs, imo, are just not very fun at all when it's the sole character you get to play. Speaking of the character lockout spells like diamondback (which is also another spell where the original is more interesting than yours, and such an example of a spell that became worse- as the boss also bounces attacks back at you but we just get locked into place).
Loads of ways to do things, and I've on a few occasions suggested ideas so it's not meant to be destructive criticism, I think twice going through the whole list lol. I'm not stuck on particular 'upgrades', but imo the 1 to 50 spells and experience itself, even now, needs quite a bit of improvement, BUT once you get past that hump the absolutely massive power level jump that is basic + mimicry + a cure (in healer mode).. everything starts to sail pretty quickly.
Though of course I do have a few desires outside of that, like I think a libra like skill might be neat- to help reduce the amount of content spam. For example Condensed Libra might increase spell learn by 25% or a stacking type system (each time you witness a spell unlearned). I personally ran Ifrit somewhere around 30-40 times, the first 10 were fine but then it became a bit frustrating. A libra learning mechanic would be neat.
Less important if spells are revamped but still a fun concept from FFXI, Diablo 3, and some rogue-lite/likes.. where we might craft passives either to equip (again referencing perhaps a passive slot system above) or via combinations of spells like in FFXI you could get the dual wielding ability through specific combination of spells equipped. Might be some sort of spell alchemy or Witcher 3 like mutation system, like granting yourself a kit changing vampiric like passive. Alternatively or as well, might consider primal staffs and other new staffs which might come with cool passives (and opportunity for you to glamour your weapon)- like Ramuh's might be chance to strike nearby enmity enemy when using physical or lighting spells, double strike chance on enemies inflicted with dropsy.
Thoughts on systems in place that allow spells to more easily combo naturally rather than explicitly (like ram / dragon voice), might also include making blue mage debuffs stick to enemies that might normally ignore them with sometimes perhaps two debuffs or generic interactable debuff (so you can perhaps make a gravity build, even if a boss is ignoring the movement side of things).
I liked the battle royale idea and feel it could be an opportunity to revisit some older spells, add newer spells, and also be a nice way to learn some spells as a new blue player. Though hopefully somehow it has protection from people leaving it for dead, if that happens. I also feel Deep Dungeon blue would be a fun opportunity to do old content and learn spells, might include some token related purchases. Eureka(s).
I feel summoner, beast master, and blue could all take advantage of a sort of advanced job aspect but that's the least cost effective solution lol (having elements of both limited and normal). Won't address summoner much here but one thought for beast master if we just forfeit that pet AI won't work in FFXIV was perhaps a Pokemon approach where you ARE the pet in some situations. Picture the new escort system in EW, but you escort yourself as the pet lol. Perhaps mechanics will have you alternate between them sometimes, akin to a GW2 weapon switch or soul beast like situation. Like if you cast the red mage / reaper back step as beast you regain control of yourself (character) with some limited abilities and you can then 'dash' forward as your beast again.
Anyway still have some more hopes and dreams for blue but my absolute childish tantrum has mostly subsided into just hoping they continue to polish it, I do feel they listened to feedback (while of course not making it normal.... Lol) and so I appreciate that. As I think if you had the initial launch experience like I did, particularly solo as I did, having help get mimicry, basic instinct, and a cure will help loads (which I didn't... And I stand by my statement that early game blue without help is pretty not good or fun, but it did get better and I do hope it continues to get more interesting and of course 'better'). And I do really appreciate that they have modified it a few times, to what to me looks like direct player feedback. Hopefully we might hear something interesting and good about it soon.
Also a suggested limited job that might not irk people I suggested before but - magitek pilot (operator), can have some xenogears / xenosaga, z-warrior fun :).