Who are the people we don't have names for yet in the 6.2 artwork?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

I think people might have missed that Erichthonios' (Eric) super form we fight when we first show up has the Lahabrea mask embedded on its head.

Imo this is pretty much straight up showing that he's the future Lahabrea we deal with in the modern times.

---

It's the mark of the high-ranking official who is both his dad and his boss.

I don't think we need to read anything more into it at this point.

Right, also an Ancient's transformed form is basically a 'costume' in a way, so Eric having Lahabrea's mask on his transformation's head was basically just sonnyboy emulating his old man, and wasn't really referencing anything further than decoration (it's something I certainly did not notice fighting him).

Also, in regards to Themis and his white robe, and why he's the best candidate as Elidibus's true identity, we know already that Elidibus was young around the time we went to Elpis (from EW's MSQ referencing Azem's infamous volcanic jaunt as recent history that Elidibus mentioned in a story on the Lodestone as presently occuring), same as Themis, Elidibus wears a white robe (due to being the Emmisary) same as Themis (with Themis's comments about "working for an advisory organization to the Convocation" as just a flimsy smokescreen to hide his true identity), Themis clearly idolizes Azem (same as Elidibus did).

And the big kicker... the whole reason the WoL ended up in Elpis originally in the first place was because Elidibus had a sudden flash of memory seeing the WoL back then in Elpis, and during the EW MSQ events there, we did not see a single Ancient who even remotely fitted Elidibus's appearence and identity. But Themis on the other hand, matches Elidibus perfectly....

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

Are you talking about this side story? Two things; First, in reading the text, it is supposed that Hades destroyed the creature and sent the wandering soul back to the life stream, as presumes the final line:

Quote:

---

He let out a quiet breath, a sigh mingled with laughter. Then he faced the bird and set about his task.

---

So it shouldn't be the Phoinix itself, else why would they need both someone with Hades power, and his sorcerorous ability.

Now this story mentions Lahabrea, and attributes creatures to him:

Quote:

---

Was it his affinity for concepts of flame that made him so like the fire itself? From peerless Ifrita to that hopelessly immortal bird, his creations had burned bright and beautiful─as did he.

---

There is no real concept of between the two stories, only that one is when Hades was first made Emet-Selk, and the second is him remininscing about a time with Elidibus after his been made that seat. With Elpis happening after Hades already being Emet-Selk and Pandaemonium happening seemingly at this same time, is there anything to connect the Phoinix to fire bird, other than well bird of fire?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

---

See, I've landed on a theory that Themis is actually something that's supposed to be in Pandaemonium, and is just pretending to be a normal Ancient person, possibly by imitating He Who Would Be Elidibus. Either he's helping us because he's trying to get us to actually make the disorder worse while claiming to fix it, or perhaps he literally just doesn't know he's supposed to be locked up in there.

I have no evidence for this theory. However, that itself is a type of evidence here; you wouldn't have had any evidence for 'Eden is an Ascian' at this point in Eden, nor evidence for 'Alexander is a sentient and benevolent time machine' at this point in Alexander, or 'Louisoix became Phoenix and also simultaneously got tempered by Bahamut' at this point in Coils (You might've predicted 'Omega is actually a Sad Robot with Sad Robot Feelings' at this point in Omega, but that's a different kind of long shot.)

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

There is no real concept of between the two stories, only that one is when Hades was first made Emet-Selk, and the second is him remininscing about a time with Elidibus after his been made that seat. With Elpis happening after Hades already being Emet-Selk and Pandaemonium happening seemingly at this same time, is there anything to connect the Phoinix to fire bird, other than well bird of fire?

---

My evidence for that is primarily 'storytelling logic', it's a bit of a Chekhov's Gun/Occam's Razor combo (Chekhov's Razor? Occam's Gun?). If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

That quote you picked out also brings in another connective point, though: Emet doesn't just connect Thordan-Murdered Lahabrea and the firebird, he also connects him to Ifrita. Azem Versus the Volcano took place before Elpis, as evidenced by the fact Hyth brings up the events to Venat, so the Lahabrea of that time must be the same as the Lahabrea we watched die--or at least, Emet thinks they're the same Lahabrea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It's the mark of the high-ranking official who is both his dad and his boss.

I don't think we need to read anything more into it at this point.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Right, also an Ancient's transformed form is basically a 'costume' in a way, so Eric having Lahabrea's mask on his transformation's head was basically just sonnyboy emulating his old man, and wasn't really referencing anything further than decoration (it's something I certainly did not notice fighting him).

Also, in regards to Themis and his white robe, and why he's the best candidate as Elidibus's true identity, we know already that Elidibus was young around the time we went to Elpis (from EW's MSQ referencing Azem's infamous volcanic jaunt as recent history that Elidibus mentioned in a story on the Lodestone as presently occuring), same as Themis, Elidibus wears a white robe (due to being the Emmisary) same as Themis (with Themis's comments about "working for an advisory organization to the Convocation" as just a flimsy smokescreen to hide his true identity), Themis clearly idolizes Azem (same as Elidibus did).

And the big kicker... the whole reason the WoL ended up in Elpis originally in the first place was because Elidibus had a sudden flash of memory seeing the WoL back then in Elpis, and during the EW MSQ events there, we did not see a single Ancient who even remotely fitted Elidibus's appearence and identity. But Themis on the other hand, matches Elidibus perfectly....

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

---

Fair enough on both accounts, though I'll stick with my opinion for now on Eric.

As for Themis, does he really fit the description of:

Quote:

---

The voice belonged, as I knew it would, to a white-robed youth of small stature,

---

Especially when we see him after the fight on Crystal Tower and he's TINY and child like?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Fair enough on both accounts, though I'll stick with my opinion for now on Eric.

As for Themis, does he really fit the description of:


Especially when we see him after the fight on Crystal Tower and he's TINY and child like?

---

I thought the tiny and child-like was more of a metaphor of how he's only a shard of who he used to be (especially after he split from Zodiark).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleretic

If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

---

They mention that there were many prototypes for the finalised Phoinix, and the one we fought was one of the failures. The one Emet destroyed was probably an even earlier version of the design.

From the quest script:

Quote:

---

THEMIS
Phoinix... I have heard the name before. A fiery bird with life eternal.
Beyond unquenchable brilliance, the perfected concept boasts nigh-boundless restorative powers, if I recall. Truly an exemplary feat of creation magicks.
Perfection is ever built on the back of failure, however, and Lahabrea suffered countless missteps during his experiments...
...And he was hardly the only one. This phoinix will be but one of many attempts at the concept gone awry.

ERICHTHONIOS
Aye. Far from evoking wonder, our phoinix is a creature of fury and wrath, and seeks only to turn the world to ash. Thus was it confined within Pandæmonium.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleretic

See, I've landed on a theory that Themis is actually something that's supposed to be in Pandaemonium, and is just pretending to be a normal Ancient person, possibly by imitating He Who Would Be Elidibus. Either he's helping us because he's trying to get us to actually make the disorder worse while claiming to fix it, or perhaps he literally just doesn't know he's supposed to be locked up in there.

I have no evidence for this theory. However, that itself is a type of evidence here; you wouldn't have had any evidence for 'Eden is an Ascian' at this point in Eden, nor evidence for 'Alexander is a sentient and benevolent time machine' at this point in Alexander, or 'Louisoix became Phoenix and also simultaneously got tempered by Bahamut' at this point in Coils (You might've predicted 'Omega is actually a Sad Robot with Sad Robot Feelings' at this point in Omega, but that's a different kind of long shot.)

EDIT:



My evidence for that is primarily 'storytelling logic', it's a bit of a Chekhov's Gun/Occam's Razor combo (Chekhov's Razor? Occam's Gun?). If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

That quote you picked out also brings in another connective point, though: Emet doesn't just connect Thordan-Murdered Lahabrea and the firebird, he also connects him to Ifrita. Azem Versus the Volcano took place before Elpis, as evidenced by the fact Hyth brings up the events to Venat, so the Lahabrea of that time must be the same as the Lahabrea we watched die--or at least, Emet thinks they're the same Lahabrea.

---

The description of Asphodelos: The Third Circle says :

Quote:

---

Standing in your way, however, is the phoinix, a violent failed iteration of the iconic immortal bird.

---

Which seemingly delineates it from the previous bird in the Tales from the Shadows story. In Ancient times we know that concepts were also iterated upon, so its hardly and most likely not the first, nor last fire bird made in their time. If the second story of Azem and the Island takes place before Elpis, then that means Themis can't be Elidibus, as he should have the mask of his office at this point.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

They mention that there were many prototypes for the finalised Phoinix, and the one we fought was one of the failures. The one Emet destroyed was probably an even earlier version of the design.

From the quest script:

---

Thanks for bringing this up as well.

Another reason why many label Themis as Elidibus is due to post 6.0 MSQ raid tease. Where we see a young man from behind that looks exactly like Themis does from behind. That then has voiced dialog with the voice being that of Elidibus. We learn during the raid that if anyone of the convocation learned how bad things are they would basically nuke the place. So he tells Eric he's totally not a convocation member, but some dude who's working with it.

Even though we know he's supposed to be investigating this with Azem who had to nope out at the last minute. Having told Themis to look out for their (or was it a) shooting star. Eric and it seems other Pandeamonium workers also wear a crystal around their belts with the full Lahabreha sigil so I just thought he incorporated that into his transformation. Now it would make sense that he would have one that looked like his father or incorporated his father into it somehow since Eric does his best to impress Lahabreha.

I was under the impression that Pandaemonium's function was to allow the Amaurotians to study creations that were too valuable to destroy, but too dangerous to be released into the world. The Phoinix in 'Through His Eyes' was an anomaly that they had never encountered before. I'd be surprised if they would have immediately destroyed it without first attempting to determine how the soul attachment had occurred. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the basis of the hemitheos experiments that were being conducted inside. We never see the outcome of Hades' fight with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It's the mark of the high-ranking official who is both his dad and his boss.

I don't think we need to read anything more into it at this point.

---

True, people tend to forget that glyphs aren't exclusive to the person.

So what or who do you think they're trying to keep buried in Pandeamonium? Could the bottom figure be that of a memory of something that went astray?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

So what or who do you think they're trying to keep buried in Pandeamonium? Could the bottom figure be that of a memory of something that went astray?

---

I'm sticking with either Athena or Themis. Possibly both and it turns out they're the same person somehow.

'It turns out the monster is already loose' is a perfect angle for upping tension, after all.

With Ericthonios mentioning that he was overwhelmed by a cacophony of whispers before he went crazy and attacked us, I'm leaning into the whole "resurrection gone horribly wrong" angle with Lahabrea making a failed attempt at bringing back Athena and perhaps getting a whole mess of souls from the Lifestream or elsewhere tangled together in the process.

That could also perhaps serve as the origin of the research would eventually lead to Zodiark's creation with him realizing the potential of souls uniting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

With Ericthonios mentioning that he was overwhelmed by a cacophony of whispers before he went crazy and attacked us, I'm leaning into the whole "resurrection gone horribly wrong" angle with Lahabrea making a failed attempt at bringing back Athena and perhaps getting a whole mess of souls from the Lifestream or elsewhere tangled together in the process.

That could also perhaps serve as the origin of the research would eventually lead to Zodiark's creation with him realizing the potential of souls uniting.

---

And perhaps it is the "cry from deep within the earth" that ended up causing the Final Days originally. Giving us the original catalyst (remember, Meteion was not on Etheirys, she needed something to be the original transformation to cause the chain reaction), what inspired Zodiark, and may end up explaining why Themis felt like only he could be the central soul that could keep Zodiark in check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Giving us the original catalyst (remember, Meteion was not on Etheirys, she needed something to be the original transformation to cause the chain reaction)

---

...no? All indication is that Meteion's 'song of the end' was literally her directing corrupted dynamis towards the planet; the 'sound from the earth' was either an early sign of things breaking that was misinterpreted as the cause, or Meteion's actual song that the Ancients misattributed direction to because they're not really used to Space Sounds.

Not only does she not need an 'original catalyst', she wouldn't have had a chance to instate one since her first action after the mental breakdown was leaving the planet. Not to mention, since the End of Days hit in the exact same way in our time after Fantastic Dan broke Zodiark, the story of Pandaemonium can't possibly be 'we break the thing that caused the first End of Days'.

I like the idea of us finding sort of a proto-Zodiark down there, but I don't think it needs to be a secret second gunman for the End of Days, that's just needlessly complicated.

Looks like, from the new trailer (and pictures on the special site), someone in Pandaemonium decided to play god and got something horrible out of it. And also there's a tree with... eight eyes, and three mouths, with a lady in it?

The weird part is that not only are all of these things probably not the leg's finale, they're DEFINITELY not the entire raid finale, so I don't even know what the hell could happen after this. (Well, aside from 'Themis is an already-loose experiment'; I'm holding onto that one until the end.)

Interesting that the new reaper lady in the trailer seems to have kept her form instead of becoming a voidsent (keyword seems though).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Interesting that the new reaper lady in the trailer seems to have kept her form instead of becoming a voidsent (keyword seems though).

---

We can also see her being a party member or a boss mechanic NPC as well in the trailer.

It will be interesting what this may lead to since SE needs to set up the Season 2 companions for WoL.

Scions are speculated to remain since they return to their original roles of being mostly watchers while pursuing their own goals but new members are expected as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleretic

Looks like, from the new trailer (and pictures on the special site), someone in Pandaemonium decided to play god and got something horrible out of it. And also there's a tree with... eight eyes, and three mouths, with a lady in it?

The weird part is that not only are all of these things probably not the leg's finale, they're DEFINITELY not the entire raid finale, so I don't even know what the hell could happen after this. (Well, aside from 'Themis is an already-loose experiment'; I'm holding onto that one until the end.)

---

At this point, I won't be surprised if they reveal Lahabrea survived his "death" at the end of Heavensward and some how traveled back in time into Pandaemonium and caused this whole mess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Interesting that the new reaper lady in the trailer seems to have kept her form instead of becoming a voidsent (keyword seems though).

---

I have made several speculations as to who she is
1): Another Unulkulhai case (I know I spelled the name wrong)
2): An ascian who quit the cult and decided to free roam the 13th in search of a solution to its blight (An ascian who's a shard from the 13th and didn't believe much in the unsundered cause but worked with them for a time similar to Fandaniel)
3): Time-traveler (Unlikely)
4): Someone who was luckily outside the scope of the flood (Like being on the moon, or high enough in the sky to avoid it. Not necessarily a shard-traveler)
5): A voidsent we managed to cure... somehow! (Unlikely too)

There are more speculations I have made, but those are also unlikely and I have listed some of them to show how much unlikely they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

We can also see her being a party member or a boss mechanic NPC as well in the trailer.

It will be interesting what this may lead to since SE needs to set up the Season 2 companions for WoL.

Scions are speculated to remain since they return to their original roles of being mostly watchers while pursuing their own goals but new members are expected as well.

---

I think many people expected the scions to disappear without a trace in 6.1 MSQ, but you have to keep the trust system in mind. Because of it, scions have to remain until they are replaced by other characters who gain story importance and are capable fighters (or in a form fit to fight). So far, we're having fewer scions on each patch. For example, in 6.0 we had the whole cast, in 6.1 we had half the cast and now in 6.2, we're just having 2-3 scions at most. Estinien and Y'shtola seem to be staying for quite a while since they are relevant story-wise, but the rest of the scions have or are going to be replaced soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I think many people expected the scions to disappear without a trace in 6.1 MSQ, but you have to keep the trust system in mind. Because of it, scions have to remain until they are replaced by other characters who gain story importance and are capable fighters (or in a form fit to fight). So far, we're having fewer scions on each patch. For example, in 6.0 we had the whole cast, in 6.1 we had half the cast and now in 6.2, we're just having 2-3 scions at most. Estinien and Y'shtola seem to be staying for quite a while since they are relevant story-wise, but the rest of the scions have or are going to be replaced soon.

---

I know most are expected to take lesser roles due to their own personal goals. However, certain ones are being setup to make a return as well but partly due to Trust system.

So far Thancred and Urianger are two that have been setup to make a return for Season 2 due to their plans for traveling the world to study the fallout of the final days and help those that need it. Trust system wise, this sets them up to be a potential Tank and Healer for Season 2.

The others are on the other hand being setup to move more to side character roles until Season 2 plot demands them back as Main characters due to how stationary their plans are.

I'm guessing the woman with serpentine transformation might be named Campe/Kampe, after the jailer of the cyclops and hecatoncheirs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I'm guessing the woman with serpentine transformation might be named Campe/Kampe, after the jailer of the cyclops and hecatoncheirs.

---

Oooo I like this. Purely for the impact I want this to be true.

On what is buried down there, gonna say that I’m 50/50 on two possibilities. Either it’s the resurrected Athena down there, or its something else entirely that manipulates the wants and desires of others (or maybe both!).

Looking at the trailer for clues you have:

1. The lines “I shall see my wish fulfilled,” “let sweet sorrow into your heart,” and “rest eternal in the dark depths of this prison” which are definitely battle lines spoken by the final boss of the tier. The voice is masculine, and the JP voice is Lahabreas voice actor, so gonna say it’s Lahabrea.

2. The scenes in an arena not shown in any of the revealed fights showing Erich using some sort of magic, Themis grimacing as black aether swirls around him, and a mysterious woman reaching out who as the exact same aura as the magic Erich is casting. There’s also these weird tubes running all around that particular arena which doesn’t bode well.

3. This transition in the trailer.

https://i.imgur.com/C1rkC4m.jpg

So I think I can confidently say young and crazed Lahabrea for p8s, but what follows next tier? Obviously it’s the “beast Pandaemonium” but what is it? And what exactly is Lahabreas wish? Part of me wants to say it’s all about bringing a lost love back to life, thus mirroring the ensouled Phoenix from the side story and it went horribly wrong, but maybe there’s another angle? Maybe Lahabrea doesn’t actually care about Athena and wants something else, a fact that would fit Erich’s description of him. Themis is straight up asked by Erich whether he will notify Lahabrea of what happened and says he won’t until after we explore Abyssos, which begs the question of why he turns up before we complete our investigation. Who notified him and what made it necessary for him to join us? And then there’s Hesperos’ insistence that what he was doing was for Lahabrea.

Something’s fishy here.

My two strongest predictions about the new Reaper: either she's a Voidsent (possibly even Zenos's avatar) who gets restored to humanity when we arrive in the Void, possibly by something we do, or she's a person who managed to somehow resist being turned into a Voidsent or eaten by them for all the thousands of years since the fall of the Thirteenth, and who's survived this long because, as Scarmiglione says, death doesn't exist there. (If the latter is the case, then I expect Golbez is someone else who managed the same thing -- the fact that he's completely armored up but otherwise human-shaped made me suspect he might not be a Voidsent the first time we saw him.) There are probably other possibilities, but I'd be at least a bit surprised if it's not one of these two.