It's time to revaluate paper crown battlementors

Mentors are roulette fodders, nothing more, nothing less.
And you don't need to clear savage content to be good at running/explaining casual content.

Being good at content is not the same as being a good teacher of the content. I think all of us can remember a teacher we had in school that was super smart in their subject but couldn't explain it to anyone in a way that was comprehensible. It is 2 entirely different skill sets. Some people have one some the other and a rare few have both.

The problem is how to find the people that both understand it and can explain in well. Arbitrary requirements just dont work well.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Being good at content is not the same as being a good teacher of the content. I think all of us can remember a teacher we had in school that was super smart in their subject but couldn't explain it to anyone in a way that was comprehensible. It is 2 entirely different skill sets. Some people have one some the other and a rare few have both.

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This is true. We get people in the novice network who try to give level 90 savage rotation advice to a sprout that is only up to Sastasha. It's overwhelming for them and it's inconsiderate. I don't see it on my current world but I have found it more common from crafter/gatherer mentors whose only knowledge of the game comes from The Balance.

Yes, fine.

Also, *reevaluate, not "revaluate"; the latter isn't a word.

Yeah, remove the crowns. We already have Hall of the Novice to help new people out.

If they remove mentorship while people are halfway in grinding their mounts people will rage. They should not have tied this achi to mentorship cause this only motivates people to grind, but mentors should not mentor for grinding but for the purpose of helping others.

I had mentor dailies where there were majority of the team mentors and like 1 sprout... and people still don't know that on Ramuh if you get linked you just need to run through 3 balls to break it...

Also, clearing savage cannot be a requirement either cause you can go back to alexander and run it 50 times unsync in a day while you farm your anima weapon.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Being good at content is not the same as being a good teacher of the content. I think all of us can remember a teacher we had in school that was super smart in their subject but couldn't explain it to anyone in a way that was comprehensible. It is 2 entirely different skill sets. Some people have one some the other and a rare few have both.

The problem is how to find the people that both understand it and can explain in well. Arbitrary requirements just dont work well.

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And on top of this, plenty of people are seemingly incapable of giving advice in a civil/approachable manner. I think we've all see the posts where a person claims they were "just trying to help" only to be told off and/or ignored by the recipient, but then their screenshot shows them 'giving advice' like an absolute turdface and they can't understand why the other person may have reacted poorly.

"I shouldn't have to sugarcoat everything and add a smileys galore just to give advice". Correct, you don't have to out of your way to be extra flowery and sweet with what you type, but again, too many people seem to fail at even basic communication. If someone is feeling attacked, they are far more likely to dismiss whatever (potentially good) advice is being given and write you off as a prat vs. actually taking it to heart. As the saying goes., you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

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Originally Posted by ValkyriaCrystalis

As someone suggested years ago : just replace the crown with a watering can.

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Still think the poop symbol is more representative of fertilising any pre-EW player.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

If they remove mentorship while people are halfway in grinding their mounts people will rage.

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There is no need to remove the mount achievement. I say we should open the mentor roulette for anyone who has done the prerequisite 1000 dungeons, unlocked every duty and gotten the commendations. Rename it random roulette and let non mentors grind it too, so they can experience the joy of doing extreme trials with drooling morons who haven't read their tool tips or done their job quests which the game explicitly tells you to do.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

There is no need to remove the mount achievement. I say we should open the mentor roulette for anyone who has done the prerequisite 1000 dungeons, unlocked every duty and gotten the commendations. Rename it random roulette and let non mentors grind it too, so they can experience the joy of doing extreme trials with drooling morons who haven't read their tool tips or done their job quests which the game explicitly tells you to do.

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This would be my vote as well. Keep the achievement and roulette, just unlink it from the mentor program completely. Those who want to help people will do so without needing to have a shiny prize for the efforts.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Still think the poop symbol is more representative of fertilising any pre-EW player.

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And yet some people would farm it because it's (somewhat) exclusive. The mentor nameplate flair should only be visible in Mentor Duty and Novice Network and off everywhere else.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

And yet some people would farm it because it's (somewhat) exclusive. The mentor nameplate flair should only be visible in Mentor Duty and Novice Network and off everywhere else.

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Some people don't like the NN, and so if they're not part of it, they're losing out on that potential help. I don't think having a flair is a bad idea in itself, but I do think the symbol needs to be something insanely mundane....like a colored dot with an "M" on it . The watering can idea gets tossed around a lot, but people would totally sport that just because they think it looks cute.

So full confession, despite playing it off and on for years, I'm still pretty noobish in GW2. That game has a mentor system also, you get a little apple with an "I" on it, but there are no linked rewards. I've always felt faaaaar more comfortable asking one of them for help, or joining a group lead by a mentor vs. anyone else.

Anecdotes aside, a visible flair definitely serves a purpose, it's just too bad that XIV's community has completely ruined what ours means. IMO, the mentor tag should announce to people that you're willing to answer some questions, be a guide of sorts, and hopefully that's a role they like serving in to begin with. Being approachable and willing to help is a great base to build on.

If mentorship needs to have a qualifier, it should be some sort of challenge benchmark that has to be completed solo so they can't be carried through it by other people. Kind of what proving grounds were originally supposed to be back in WoW's MOP, before people started whining about gatekeeping.

There needs to be no barrier to entry, but no "reward" either. The system should be you wanna be a mentor you can be a mentor. /mentor turns it on.
That way the flag, whatever it is, isn't "exclusive" since you can turn it on at any time.

There should also be a limitation of if you have so many substantiated actions against you, you cannot be a mentor. Because that's basically what a mentor should be, someone willing to help and not be abusive, for the sake of being helpful. Unpaid community management.

you should be a mentor.
You all should be a mentor

50 savage runs would be pretty excessive. If you're in a normal group you're only going to have 32 runs total after the 8 reclears. I know I had no need to run them anymore once my group finished our 8 reclears fairly early in the tier. I'm pretty sure in my whole time as a mentor none of my savage/ultimate experience has ever been needed when helping sprouts. You don't need to clear the tier to let people know when they get their chocobo or what weapon does what in Shiva EX.

Keep the Burger King Crown™ but make the requirement a clear of any ultimate. It can even be Weapon's Refrain, but it would weed out a lot of people that just want to flex. I'll take my job at SE HQ now, ty!

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

I would propose that in addition to the already existing requirements, there is an added requirement that you must complete 50 current Savage instances. An example of a current savage instance would be only P1s-P4s counting towards this number until the release of patch 6.2, then only P5s-P8s would count. .

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Who is this skillset aimed at? No one denies knowing an optimised rotation is good but this isn't the desired imparting of skills needed at mentor level. The people mentor are aimed at are the people who just want to muddle through some slightly complicated mechanic early in the game. You being a sweaty edgelord on 4 advanced fights is actually less useful than knowing 150 encounters across the whole game off by heart (plus having played most/all classes). Plus being a mentor is as much about attitude as aptitude which I feeeeeeeeeel you might not be down with.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The system should be you wanna be a mentor you can be a mentor. /mentor turns it on.<snip>There should also be a limitation of if you have so many substantiated actions against you, you cannot be a mentor. Because that's basically what a mentor should be, someone willing to help and not be abusive, for the sake of being helpful. Unpaid community management.

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Good idea on the face, but if Twitter has proven anything, it's that it's all to easy for a group of like-minded players to cancel anyone they don't collectively like. All it would take is a slip about Trump, to use an obvious example, and you'd be out on a rail.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Keep the Burger King Crown™ but make the requirement a clear of any ultimate. It can even be Weapon's Refrain, but it would weed out a lot of people that just want to flex. I'll take my job at SE HQ now, ty!

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Gil's plentiful. All that needs is a completely-TOS-compliant PF offering x0-Millions to each of the other players to clear it for you while you lay dead on the floor waiting.

Mhhh, why removing the mentor crown? The game will not become better or worse if SQEX removes the crown.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Good idea on the face, but if Twitter has proven anything, it's that it's all to easy for a group of like-minded players to cancel anyone they don't collectively like. All it would take is a slip about Trump, to use an obvious example, and you'd be out on a rail.

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I'd say the amount of actions against you would probably border on getting permabanned. or have some sort of review available. Honestly is it any different than it is now with people saying that certain NN's are "out to get them"?

The whole point of being a mentor is just being available. Would any large group of people be that petty about not letting someone try to help? ... well yes... but any more than they can now?

I think the removal of any rewards or exclusivity would take away any sort of "prestige" people linked with it and you'd be more of an info booth sort of presence than being special.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I think the removal of any rewards or exclusivity would take away any sort of "prestige" people linked with it and you'd be more of an info booth sort of presence than being special.

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Yes, I do agree in removing rewards including the crown icon. Move the mount reward to something else without wiping people's progress towards it.

For the western audience, I don't think community policing can ever be a panacæa, especially in a full /mentor for all system.

As much as we'd likely all love it, it's not too difficult to see how it could be easy to troll without something as a gate to slow down the trolls. Completing SB and one of each RED/Green/Blue class might, might be enough of a bar for your /mentor for all suggestion. Maybe it would need more though.

Maybe only positive reinforcement from that point, with mentors and players tagging responses as helpful to help the mentor rise in rank. The rank allowing an increasing number of responses per hour. It's easy enough to stop a second account self-voting by adding a lower limit to the number of helpfull votes.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Mhhh, why removing the mentor crown? The game will not become better or worse if SQEX removes the crown.


Cheers

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We could say the same about <The Legend> titles and the whales who mass buy runs thinking someone actually cares about their status or rgb weapon.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

We could say the same about <The Legend> titles and the whales who mass buy runs thinking someone actually cares about their status or rgb weapon.

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yeah, we should remove those too

Honestly think it would be better if a mentor could select the trials they're able to guide. Don't we all forget about certain mechanics sometimes when you roll a trial that you played last half a year ago?

Instead of removing mentors they should-

A) Change the mentor icon. People become mentors for that alone and a crown isn't exactly representative of what mentors are supposed to do. The icon isn't supposed to be a status symbol. Make the icon something more humble and you'll see less of it.

B) Remove the mount and other motivations from mentor roulette. This game has a fantastic community(even with all the bad apples in it) and I don't really think we need to entice people to help out with mentorships. So let's not waste time attracting awful mentors, just let those that are genuinely kind do their thing.

Just don't let people run around with that crown.

They just get it when they enter a instance with the mentor roulette and lose it when the dungeon is done.

They don't need to display it everywhere.
Also, new player don't know what they are anyway because auf 2nd player has one above their head.

When they limit the crown to only mentor roulette then it also gets its meaning back.

Been a while since the last "mentors bad" thread.
And yes, most mentors are bad.
Change the crown to watering can, get rid of rewards and we're good.

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

Honestly think it would be better if a mentor could select the trials they're able to guide. Don't we all forget about certain mechanics sometimes when you roll a trial that you played last half a year ago?

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Mentors and non mentors are already able to do that. Just queue for what you want. You get no rewards too, which is what people are asking for in this thread. So why aren't people doing it? There are thousands of instances ran by newbies every day, and it's mostly mentors grinding their mount helping them. In 90% of the extremes I did there were sprouts and mentors in the party, but none of the regular players who say helping should be done only for the joy of it.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

B.....b.....but that would be tacit admission from the Squeenix gods that people who can clear higher end content know what they're talking about. The butterfly-skinned community would throw a spittle-flecked rage fit if SE dared to admit that the evil elitist sweatlord pigs understand anything with more depth than Armchair Expert You Don't Pay My Sub Sylphie.

I mean, I think it wouldn't be that bad, but I can imagine that conversation happening in the CBU3 conference room where they seem to be terrified of offending any of the community at all, thus making a lot of their decisions noncommittal in a way that pleases nobody.

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You can buy clears.

it says nothing about skill.

Some of the best answers in the novice network come from SPROUTS. Crownfolk know things mostly because they've been around for a long time, not because they are better.

The crown will never be a sign of respect, no point in trying to make it into one. Even if it was the single most impossible achivement in the game, people would hate on them for being a tryhard and a nolifer.

So, making it harder will just attract more of the kind of person who gets less respect.

Have you looked at the actual role of the mentor?

Recrute sprouts, be a pillar of the comunity.

There's nothing in there about knowing anything.

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

It honestly just needs to be required.

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WoW made proving grounds silver mandatory to do heroic dungeons.

You know what happened? People just got others to do it for them.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Some of the best answers in the novice network come from SPROUTS. Crownfolk know things mostly because they've been around for a long time, not because they are better.

The crown will never be a sign of respect, no point in trying to make it into one. Even if it was the single most impossible achivement in the game, people would hate on them for being a tryhard and a nolifer.

So, making it harder will just attract more of the kind of person who gets less respect.

Have you looked at the actual role of the mentor?

Recrute sprouts, be a pillar of the comunity.

There's nothing in there about knowing anything.

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...You do realize a lot of those "sprouts" giving answers are in fact alts of mentors yes?

Who shouldn't take up sprout spots.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Crownfolk know things mostly because they've been around for a long time, not because they are better.

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That's the whole point of mentors though, having been around long enough that you know stuff. So what?
And it's not about being better, it's about disposition. Being friendly and helpful and keen on helping others with the knowledge you have.

None of which by the way is in any way related to clearing savage or ultimate. Cause if doing those made you a nicer/friendlier person, all legends would be the best mentor (which is the biggest joke ever lol).

Doesn’t matter if they change the icon to watering can, water droplet, fertilizer, or even the comical poop: the fact that it’s something that I can unlock and display next to my name—I will still work for it and turn it on like a badge. I like having icons next to my name.

That being said, I’m still happy to guide/teach only if I foresaw my effort can be useful to the other party. The only time I’m slightly more assertive & proactive is when the issues are causing wipes.

I will definitely not going to miss this entire system should they banish it for good.

I don't even care about PvE battle mentor, make PvP mentor a meaningful one that is not tied to PvE.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

I don't even care about PvE battle mentor, make PvP mentor a meaningful one that is not tied to PvE.

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Yeah this one is really dumb and makes no sense "do a lot of pve and never ever touch pvp to become a pvp mentor" say what?

Hi,

the Hyperion Mentors have read this thread and we love it.

Much love ♥

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Originally Posted by Windfire

...You do realize a lot of those "sprouts" giving answers are in fact alts of mentors yes?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

False. New players don't need to know how to do a level 90 opener. They don't need to know how to clear savage and ultimate raids. They need to know where to find a repair NPC. They need to know what a tank stance is. They need to know what level they get their chocobo or what a blue quest means. They need help with their 2-button Sastasha rotation. They need to know how to unlock dyes.

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And sprouts, who just did, are the ones who tend to remember, and answer things. Not alts of 90's.