Can we talk about the Yoshi P double standard and bias here?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You don't see me complain much these days because I'm fairly happy with the game as a whole. When Tanks went from Tanks to DPS with mitigation, I complained a bit, provided feedback, and then promptly stopped tanking. I was a PLD main through Heavensward. But we got more DPS abilities than tank abilities so... I just started playing DPS.

I don't comment on caster or healer issues, because I am terrible at playing them and any feedback I provide would be worthless. I only pass on my friends who do heal's points, as they are more informed than I am.

I also don't participate in those threads, you won't find a single post from me in the healers need a rework thread because I have no input to give.

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And that’s fine, you’re allowed to be content. But nobody has a right to start questioning whether someone is “critiquing too much” or what have you, when this is the entire purpose of these forums. While i may not make threads about what few things i like, i have complimented the game in various posts in the threads i make. Hell, a lot of my threads are me indirectly praising the devs. Me asking for more music is because i love the music in this game and want to hear more of it.

I don't think what's happening is a bias. I think what is happening is Yoshi-P know what he likes/doesn't like about BLM and so when the team wants to change aspects he is able to make what he feels is the right call or give input on what should change.

This in and of itself isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's what every job should have, that is to say someone who can "champion" that job so bad changes don't happen and positive changes do happen. Look at the recent SAM changes and anyone who plays the job can tell you that the person making these changes doesn't understand what makes SAM a SAM.

There's a great youtube video by Misshapen Chair on YouTube that (to paraphrase) states "There's a perception in the community that the devs don't play the game. That's not true. They do play the game but only play 3 jobs. BLM, PLD and DRG. Those jobs have never lost their identity and while not always perfect maintained what makes them unique".

Simply put, the devs need more people who specialize in specific jobs so that every job is represented at the level BLM is.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

BLM was def over buffed this round

It’s going to get nerfed

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Yep, and probably in stupid ways that make no sense. It really didn't need more damage on Flare/Freeze AND another Paradox charge. :p I have to wonder if they test this stuff at all. Just hope they keep their hands off the CC/survivability/cast time stuff, as that was good.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I don't agree that he is exhibiting a sort of "I got mine, go pound chocobo sand" / or evil sort of bias. I believe the situation is each job has a sort of caretaker, with many having some overlap due to helping each other or someone responsible for multiple. I think it might be feasible to say he likes BLM so he has direct impact on what he likes, and it does seem like he's more of a technical gamer, which is good for those who feel similarly, but there are of course those who are not like that.

Like as an aside there have been a few times in FFXIV patch history where SMN, who has a raise and mobility, did more damage than many BLM with less technical stress.

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Wasn't the team in charge of PvE classes the same as the one in charge of PvP? Either way, I don't think they have anyone as a designated caretaker, I think they are just a handful of poor guys who have to deal with both sides, and just pitch in collectively.

Regardless, I personally feel like he does that to honour what he once said, about having his personal favourite but not make it too broken just because it's his personal favourite. It is one of the jobs that's changed the least and it's consistently been one of the top damage dealers. But until recently it's also been the least mobile and the most punishing, though it's a trait it's since started gradually shedding. I remember people counting server ticks for their openers last expansion.

But there are A LOT more PvP issues than just Black Mage's usefulness, and BLM itself is very awkward and passive to play. These buffs to BLM do show some form of preferential treatment, given how even others that required buffs and nerfs here and there don't get a list as extensive as BLM does.

Then again, we're talking about a man who plays a race with areas and furniture designed exclusively for it, so the bias claim isn't that far from truth even if it might not apply here.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

BLM was def over buffed this round

It’s going to get nerfed

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I have doubts but I hope you're right.

Is this like War of the Magi II?

As now both WHMs and BLMs are annoying and ridiculously strong. Or at least WHMs were, are they still? idc

https://i.gifer.com/5gp.gif

BLMs needed buffs. Stop acting like Yoshi P wants them to be OP. They were hurting.

To be honest; I think that Square's top grossing video game of all time deserves a lead designer for each job, or AT LEAST split up by role/equipment type. Those people should focus on that(those) job(s) and should represent the job whenever it comes to changes (nerfs/buffs/reworks). They should communicate with the community and be the one that fights for what the players of that job want. They should play those jobs at a very high level and understand everything they can about them. It's silly to expect designers to understand the wants/needs of the players of 19 different jobs and balance all of them.

It's clear that BLM has a good voice in the game, it's time to get the other classes some voices and expertise IMO.

I'd love to at least see a Caster Design Lead, Tank Design Lead, Melee Design Lead, Ranged Design Lead, and Healer Design Lead. Posting on the forums and being a representative of the players of those jobs and of the design team to those players. It should be their job to balance and design the jobs within their role and the Lead Designer's job to balance between roles and general combat mechanics.

I feel the homogenization and simplification is due to the fact that it IS difficult to manage 19 different jobs, they need to stop relying on generalized knowledge and start getting some SME. (IMO)

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Is this like War of the Magi II?

As now both WHMs and NLMs mages are annoying and ridiculously strong. Or at least WHMs were, are they still? idc

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WHM is strong in PvP.

Its funny how you think he has enough time to keep playing and tryharding the game to the point he asked the dev team for BLM buffs to give him an advantage when you consider his RL job title. The guy has eyebags within his eyebags because of work, BLM skill potencies is in the bottom of his priority list. Its a very very busy job.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

Its funny how you think he has enough time to keep playing and tryharding the game to the point he asked the dev team for BLM buffs to give him an advantage when you consider his RL job title. The guy has eyebags within his eyebags because of work, BLM skill potencies is in the bottom of his priority list. Its a very very busy job.

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He reached Crystal on all 3 JP DCs

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

BLMs needed buffs. Stop acting like Yoshi P wants them to be OP. They were hurting.

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If you had actually read my post you’d have seen i acknowledged they needed buffs. Please read in the futurez

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Originally Posted by Lieri

Its funny how you think he has enough time to keep playing and tryharding the game to the point he asked the dev team for BLM buffs to give him an advantage when you consider his RL job title. The guy has eyebags within his eyebags because of work, BLM skill potencies is in the bottom of his priority list. Its a very very busy job.

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Man has time to pvp to his hearts content, let's not get it twisted.

I sleep a regular schedule and have eye bags too. XD

I don't think it was Yoshi P directly ordering the devs to buff BLM to be on top, as much as him - a BLM player - telling them what felt weak. It's a mix of listening to feedback from someone who knows what they're talking about, and that someone just happened to be their boss, who they'd obviously try to please.

Make Yoshida play healers.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

he guy has eyebags within his eyebags because of work,

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I understand Japanese culture is very workaholic centered but as a lead developer that speaks to the state of his people management skills. His job should be to make sure the managers under him are properly meeting their targets and goals and those managers should be managing the people under him.

I know he is a self described perfectionist but burnout happens due to that.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

Make Yoshida play healers.

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He won't but I wish he would.

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Originally Posted by Denji

He won't but I wish he would.

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Plot twist: he might do that already, felt that complicated DPS combo while healing at the same time was too much of a burden, so he decided to simplify the DPS aspect to brain-numbing simple.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

There was an old WoW meme back in the day about the lead designer at that time Tom Chilton whose character was named Kalgan. That lead designer happened to play a Mage.

The meme was: Kalgan plays a Mage.

Guess what job was very rarely undertuned, was almost always viable, and almost always "fun"? Why? Because Kalgan plays a Mage, and the lead developer wants to have fun, that's why.

It's the exact same here.

"Yoshi-P plays a Black Mage" so they'll almost always be tuned well.

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I remember my friend ranting that one of the WoW developer has very strong hate for Paladin because his Warrior in EverQuest get out-tanked by Paladin. For some unknown reason, he manages the Paladin class, resulting in constant nerfs. There is even Paladin class set that is pink in color.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

Plot twist: he might do that already, felt that complicated DPS combo while healing at the same time was too much of a burden, so he decided to simplify the DPS aspect to brain-numbing simple.

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...why do I feel like he would actually do that and cull DoTs on healers?

It's a bias but it doesn't seem like it's malicious. It's still annoying though as it makes it clear that developer attention is going to go to their own interests.

I just don't really see what you can do about it. If he's playing CC on his own time and these changes are the result, then you either accept it or you just stop taking his input from his own personal playtime altogether. Which sucks, especially due to his comments regarding healers...

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

There was an old WoW meme back in the day about the lead designer at that time Tom Chilton whose character was named Kalgan. That lead designer happened to play a Mage.

The meme was: Kalgan plays a Mage.

Guess what job was very rarely undertuned, was almost always viable, and almost always "fun"? Why? Because Kalgan plays a Mage, and the lead developer wants to have fun, that's why.

It's the exact same here.

"Yoshi-P plays a Black Mage" so they'll almost always be tuned well.

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Hihihi, and Tigole and Foror played Warriors. Guess, what was the most overpowererd class in WoW Classic?


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...why do I feel like he would actually do that and cull DoTs on healers?

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Stay tuned for that AST update to make them "less busy."

Small Indie Dev Company.

An update
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

An update
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

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I would like to emphasize that the black mage is experiencing no preferential treatment by being specially mentioned here; we evaluate action balance for all jobs with a similarly scrutinizing gaze. I only present this instance as an example as it was particularly inconvenient and frustrating to many players, and I am truly sorry for the trouble we have caused.

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https://c.tenor.com/M1rOzWS3NsQAAAAC...e-disperse.gif

BLM didn't need buffs, it's idiotically ridiculous now. All of a sudden I'm eating 200-300% more damage than usual compared to dealt.

This is why I call these devs incompetent, it's so obvious it's baffling how almost no one else sees this.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

An update
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

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"I would like to emphasize that the black mage is experiencing no preferential treatment by being specially mentioned here; we evaluate action balance for all jobs with a similarly scrutinizing gaze. I only present this instance as an example as it was particularly inconvenient and frustrating to many players, and I am truly sorry for the trouble we have caused."

healers need to call bullshit on that one. very loudly.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi-P

I would like to emphasize that the black mage is experiencing no preferential treatment by being specially mentioned here; we evaluate action balance for all jobs with a similarly scrutinizing gaze. I only present this instance as an example as it was particularly inconvenient and frustrating to many players, and I am truly sorry for the trouble we have caused.

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As so astutely mentioned on Reddit:

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Originally Posted by Kirin12

It would go a long way towards actually easing the assumptions that BLM gets preferential treatment if you deigned to mention the name of literally a single other job in the post. Like, idk throw out a job you think is over performing or under performing or something so that we at least get the impression you care about literally anyone else lmao.

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Originally Posted by RedMageSuperScrup

Yep, exactly. Also saying BLM had a win rate 14% lower than the top job is a meaningless statistic without any other data points. Is that 14 less points? Or 14% of the highest value? How do the other jobs fare in comparison?

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The 14% lower winrate on old BLM was due to many players thinking a 3k DOT is better than chain stunning enemies over and over again :p

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

As so astutely mentioned on Reddit:

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I mean... people memed that Yoshida is biased towards Black Mage because he plays it. He specifically addressed that. Don't see anything wrong with "only mentioning that" because he wasn't accused of favouring Samurai/Ninja/what have you because he mains them...

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

I mean... people memed that Yoshida is biased towards Black Mage because he plays it. He specifically addressed that. Don't see anything wrong with "only mentioning that" because he wasn't accused of favouring Samurai/Ninja/what have you because he mains them...

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I agree to some point. They addressed the issue people were the "loudest" about.

But I also agree that this was the perfect opportunity to share the data that they're looking at, explaining what other jobs are under performing or being used less frequently. Hell, if they're worried about people jumping the meta (even though people who would care about the meta know what jobs to play) or people building expectations for buffs, they could even have anonymized the job names to show the overall spread and where BLM was compared to all of the other jobs so that information is useful.

BLM lower than wherever DNC at? Damn... And here I thought nobody plays DNC on CC...

I suspect that a fair number of the worse jobs aren't lagging behind by as much as we think. Plus there's a well documented (primarily by League and the huge amount of stats compiled there) phenomenon where characters/classes/jobs with low play rates often have much higher winrates than you'd expect, simply because the few people still playing them have gotten extremely good at playing around their specific strengths and weaknesses (occasionally even figuring out play patterns that legit make the character good, but weren't initially obvious - BLM might have fit into this category). The worst problems tend to be when both metrics are skewed in the same direction: low play rate + low win rate, or high play rate + high win rate. Those mean that even the character-specific gurus can't make it work or, if the rates are high, that it's so nuts that literally anyone can crush with it.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

An update
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

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Meanwhile, also YoshiP:
https://youtu.be/CMkfuFHCpo4

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Meanwhile, also YoshiP:
https://youtu.be/CMkfuFHCpo4

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You going 90s with that.


On another note.



Is it truly right to balance something based on amount of people who play. Also win percentage seems a little suspect as well considering your groups are formed randomly. Wouldn't first a discussion and play guide to see if players are actually playing the rotation to get max out of job first. Also if most people prefer X style of play the amount of BLM will be lower. If I always play tank or healer and that means BLM out of all the dps is lowest represented since it shares a pool with more seems silly to me.



I am not saying buff wasn't needed. The reasons just seem wrong. Also I don't mind the extra damage. It does feel like with BLMs the CC has gotten even worse. Is that possible?

Yoship having a bias means atleast one job is good lol.

I think its not bad there's a bias and it was obvious from long ago, pointing out isn't really doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

Yoship having a bias means atleast one job is good lol.

I think its not bad there's a bias and it was obvious from long ago, pointing out isn't really doing anything.

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As the leading game dev, his “bias” should be for every job, not one. Especially not when an entire role is being neglected.

While I find the "go play ultimate" quote to be very concerning, I think the fact that YoshiP only plays BLM is not the real issue, as he isn't in charge of job design. The actual problem is the fact that some of the people in charge of job design do not seem to play the stuff they are adjusting in any meaningful capacity.

The only reason BLM is well-maintained is that YoshiP personally evaluates it as an experienced player of the job rather than a clueless designer. Since he is the game's director, he obviously would not let BLM changes go through if he is firmly against them.

With that in mind, I think it's unreasonable to expect YoshiP to play every single job - the man is busy enough as is. What we need instead is quality control for a given job to be done by people who are actually competent at it.