Just give us a list of what addons we can use.

It's probably safe to use addons that also work on PS4/PS5

I always love when people ask for clearly defined rules, so they can skirt them as closely as technically possible.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I always love when people ask for clearly defined rules, so they can skirt them as closely as technically possible.

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Yeah, we even made an entire profession that focus solely on that. We call them lawyers xD

They can't endorse specific addons for liability reasons I would've thought. Wouldn't be a good look of "SE approved" mod that corrupted someone's PC now would it. Or simply a poorly implemented update to said mod one day just breaking the game for people. If it's gonna have SE stamp of approval it comes with an expectation of quality that they cant assure since it is not actually ran by them at all.

Whether the above is accurate or not, we are not getting a list of things we can and cant use. The only one Yoshi P said was ok was reshade since it didn't change the game itself. They made very clear that 3rd party is prohibited and use at your own risk. The community abused the tolerance it had up to this point by streaming blatant mods and plug ins to thousands on the biggest content drop so far this expansion. A 10 day ban is not world ending at all. Actually nice to see SE try and preserve the integrity of the content and try to promote a more even playing field for console and pc players.

Go back to no show and no tell and we can all enjoy the game how we want without fuss. I never seen so much mods in ffxiv as when the WoW streamers came over and after that they just seemed to be popping up on every stream. Did agree with Xeno, why ban ff players and not the big wow players? It shouldn't be a rule for one and not the other, either ban them all, warn them all or do nothing to the lot.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I always love when people ask for clearly defined rules, so they can skirt them as closely as technically possible.

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This is and forever will be an underrated but lovely and brilliant comment. Because, you know, that is exactly what people would (and will) do. And every time they try and fail, they'll <surprised Pikachu face> and then moan incessantly about how they're innocent victims or about how anyone who imposes any rules on them are horrible gestapo-like villains from a dystopia who are ruining everything for everyone (and by everyone, they mean just themselves, unless they can find a convenient third party to use as a shield... and who they don't actually care about, either).

They're handing out bans because Japan's message boards are butthurt they didn't get world first in DRU, so they're screaming at Square to BAN BAN BAN! They didn't give a crap about this last week, and they'll return to not giving a crap once 5ch had had their pound of flesh.

I think a mod should just go through all the recent forum posts and ban everybody who is defending addons.
The controversy about it is so annoying, especially as it literally doesn't impact anybody aside from the small niche of XIV streamers.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I think a mod should just go through all the recent forum posts and ban everybody who is defending addons.
The controversy about it is so annoying, especially as it literally doesn't impact anybody aside from the small niche of XIV streamers.

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I wish they would, too. It's sad that they almost certainly won't, but I would appreciate it (and, admittedly, feel a little bit of schadenfreude).

This community, I swear. Acting indignant as if even thinking about modding a game makes you a baby-eater. The TOS is a legal document, not a religious text.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

This community, I swear. Acting indignant as if even thinking about modding a game makes you a baby-eater. The TOS is a legal document, not a religious text.

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That sounds exactly like something someone who named themselves after a member of the forsaken, one of the most evil people in the Wheel of Time series, would say. "They're just breaking the rules. Why so salty? Oh, uh, be right back. Just need to loosen the seals on the Dark One's prison a little bit. Kill Rand while I'm gone!"

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

This community, I swear. Acting indignant as if even thinking about modding a game makes you a baby-eater. The TOS is a legal document, not a religious text.

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Certainly not baby eaters. I see plenty sharing similar sentiment to mine, you do you and keep it to yourself. This has been the general consensus for a while and it went out the window recently for streamers. What the 5chan peeps are doing is petty af, but they wouldn't have the ammo if the streamer hadn't handed it to them on a silver platter. And even besides that, the JP console players have a fair point to be angry about, PC players gave themselves significant advantages over someone playing purely on console. When it comes to something as competitive as a world first ofc they will be mad and ofc the rest of the time no1 gives a crap because nothing is at stake.

Some of the community, like me, are bemused at people losing their mind over getting punished (or the threat of punishment seeing the ban on streamer) after they literally live stream themselves breaking ToS on a world first race. As Yoshi P has said, they do not know what we are running on our PC, they do not check and they do not WANT to check. So ultimately its a huge chunk of people getting butthurt on behalf of a couple streamers being banned for knowingly flaunting their rule breaking when they are at no real risk themselves unless they too decide to record and broadcast their own breaking of ToS.

There's no way on earth they'd ever do this.

First and foremost, even company's that officially approve of mods (such as Bethesda) state that using mods more or less means any issue you have with your game is your own to deal with... That works, for a single player game. But for an online, live service game? It would never work.

Two, the game has a large console user base, which won't have access to mods, so they have to officially disallow all of them. Unofficially, they know they can't ban everyone who uses "third party tools" since they technically count Discord as a third party tool... And absolutely no one in their right mind would think its smart to ban people with Discord who play the game and use it to communicate since that's like almost all the North American and European player base.

Add-ons are not allowed, none of them.
But no one will judge you for using them when they don't know.

See mods like speeding with a car.
No one really cares when you do it alone on a straight street at night with only 10 km/h above allowed.
But when you do it at rush hour and involving others by passing them, then the chances increase that you will get punished for it.
Or many people speed on the empty night street and some of them taking it to the extreme by speeding far more then "just" 10km/h. In that case the police will bring a complete stop to all speeding on that street, even for these "harmless" who do it only under save conditions.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

This community, I swear. Acting indignant as if even thinking about modding a game makes you a baby-eater. The TOS is a legal document, not a religious text.

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It's work the other way as well. We all signed that when we made our accounts and thus we should be held accountable should we break those terms. Yet we act like we shouldn't.

While mods themselves don't make people toxic we tend to overly rely on the more helpful ones. Sometimes it's justified to a degree like numerous hud mods in WoW. Sometimes less so like various combat trackers that still become borderline requirement for high end groups (which often bleeds to lower tiers since they are learning from the example set by the best). Recent race for World First is a good example of it. I believe it's safe to say that all groups that held even remote chance at being the first used ACT including Automated call outs portion of it. Yes I know you have to set them on your own this early into the raid's lifespan but I can't help but see them as an advantage. Ultimately you just allowed 9th party member to take off the duty from someone else who'd otherwise stay be watching and making them. It's never as simple as good or bad.

The is an unambiguous list, that list has zero entries.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

The is an unambiguous list, that list has zero entries.

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I hope more people make this witty and original post

It's not going to happen. They are never going to make a list of accepted add-ons because add-ons tend to change and develop over time. It would be a waste of time monitoring every single one and periodically updating the list.

Never going to happen, no point asking.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I always love when people ask for clearly defined rules, so they can skirt them as closely as technically possible.

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Hence SE is blurring the lines in hope the players are intimidated enough not to 'test the waters'.

And I think that's good.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

nor GShade

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Gshade does not affect the game files. :) It is an API wrapper.


Cheers

I like that square have said they will look at addons that influence the appearance of the HUD and I have a few suggestions as to what they can do. Firstly would be having a number either on the buff/debuff icon on the party bars or below it. Also I feel that the number being beneath the cooldowns of abilities is rather small and I would like them to be inside the icon and in a much larger size. Finally Chat bubbles for characters as alot of NPC have it but I think they should be disabled in combat.

https://imgur.com/0Aj861E Heres what I am referring to, the ones on the left are the current and the one on the right is what I would like to get added.

What I would like to see is square looking at addons outside of the hud like qol ones which improve the game for players. I do not want them to look at combat enhancing ones or anything like that, but to focus on ones like are used to make house decoration more easy for people, hair ribbons no longer clipping, hats for viera and ones like that. This I believe can be a more constructive conversation than the current "the law is the law" one we are seeing everywhere. I want to see this game improve, we all do so lets have a conversation at how they can improve some basic features that for a very long time have been left in a less than desirable state.

You guys can make as many justifications or excuses as you want but the ToS clearly state that ALL ADDONS and MODS are not allowed. It can't be that hard to understand that just because you got away with it in the past, won't mean you will today as well.

The fact that Squeenix even made that announcement, even trough it doesn't state anything new, is a sign on how serious they are about removing the Grey Area of what "is suppoest to be allowed".

In case it hasnt been made clear enough already: Every Program or File that interacts with the Game, its Files or Data in a direct way trough a second Party (which is You) IS a 3rd Party Tool.

In case WAR mains come up with the Question on if Discord is a 3rd Party Tool, it is not. Discord does not interact with the Game at all and runs as a seperate Program, therefore, Squeenix cant ban you for using it.

OK, just few examples why that can't happen.

Right now there are mods that show you the prices of items in the entire data center. The cheat engine can make players to sit everywhere by sending fake packages to the server, harmless, but do you know what else data is sent to the server or taken to be uploaded somehwere else, if SE agrees to approve some addons/mods, they would need to monitor them 24/7. And lets say they agree officially on some stuff. They need to be and quality control on them, if they accept DPS meter, people would asume the DPS meter is showing proper information, at this point no DPS meter shows exact information and that is fine because it is not officially approved. BTW with the current battle log, precise dps meter cannot be created, so if SE wants to approve something to legalize it, they will need to change how the game works too, and I don't see that happening for third party tools.

And don't understand me wrong, I am not against quality of life changes, just addon/modding is not the way to go. During the years Square enix were very responsive to player base requests, I see no reason for players to stop requesting improvements on the UI and other acpects of the game. Xeno did good point of things that need to be improved, like option to have bigger numbers on the skill cooldown (I play on huge monitor and for me as it is, is fine, but I understand not everyone have that luxary), timers on party member buffs, personally I can't think of a reason why I care, but still it will be improvement to have option to see them. Chat bubbles, I personally hate them and I hate battles that have them in the middle of the screen(something they need to make optional too), but I understand why people love this idea and want it as an option.

And lets be clear, streamers that were banned used addons that were giving them advantage. No matter how much Xeno tries to protect it. Seeing the other players CDs, seeing when you are able to move during cast, using AI call outs for mechanics are all tools that give you quite an advantage, if not I am 100% sure they would not use them in the first place. BTW not only that, you can track the topic from even before the savages were released when people started to notice the higher amount of mods on some streams that started to pop up. And everyone were like "naah, Square enix will not be brave enough to ban streamer".

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Originally Posted by Anhra

You guys can make as many justifications or excuses as you want but the ToS clearly state that ALL ADDONS and MODS are not allowed. It can't be that hard to understand that just because you got away with it in the past, won't mean you will today as well.

The fact that Squeenix even made that announcement, even trough it doesn't state anything new, is a sign on how serious they are about removing the Grey Area of what "is suppoest to be allowed".

In case it hasnt been made clear enough already: Every Program or File that interacts with the Game, its Files or Data in a direct way trough a second Party (which is You) IS a 3rd Party Tool.

In case WAR mains come up with the Question on if Discord is a 3rd Party Tool, it is not. Discord does not interact with the Game at all and runs as a seperate Program, therefore, Squeenix cant ban you for using it.

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It's not that difficult guys. Not sure why we still feel the need to be confused about this. They MIGHT not ban you or warn you for something, but that doesn't mean that it isn't against the ToS and you're not "allowed" to.

Anything that you use/install that interacts with the game in any way is considered a 3rd party tool and is against the rules. Period. Just don't be dumb, there are only a few ways that they can find out that you're using stuff (right now).

They don't see to necessarily care about parsers or visual mods (except for nudity mods). But they're still against the rules.

If you're using something that displays information that isn't normally displayed by the UI or makes stuff "easier", that's definitely against the rules.

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If they just delete all the twitch streamers for using mods, they will lose a lot of free advertising.

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They get enough advertising as it is. Streamers are no great loss, and quite frankly, I can think of one Id like to see gone..............

..................permanently.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

They get enough advertising as it is.

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No, they do not. Look which impact Asmongold's activity had to the game. One guy started to play the game and the player count exploded. SQEX has a bad marketing department, IMHO.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

They get enough advertising as it is. Streamers are no great loss

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You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

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Actually, i do. I am aware of the streamer "presence", but up until recently FF 14 was sorta "in the background" as most of the streamers were busy streaming WOW...incl Asmongold who sneered at FF 14 as "weeb game". Wasnt until the penny finally dropped about WOWs large list of failures that he turned to FF 14.

Temporarily.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

You guys can make as many justifications or excuses as you want but the ToS clearly state that ALL ADDONS and MODS are not allowed. It can't be that hard to understand that just because you got away with it in the past, won't mean you will today as well.

The fact that Squeenix even made that announcement, even trough it doesn't state anything new, is a sign on how serious they are about removing the Grey Area of what "is suppoest to be allowed".

In case it hasnt been made clear enough already: Every Program or File that interacts with the Game, its Files or Data in a direct way trough a second Party (which is You) IS a 3rd Party Tool.

In case WAR mains come up with the Question on if Discord is a 3rd Party Tool, it is not. Discord does not interact with the Game at all and runs as a seperate Program, therefore, Squeenix cant ban you for using it.

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To be fair, they brought up an example of using a calculator as a third party tool in a video that's easily searchable on YouTube...so following their line of thinking, Discord could be one as well if they really got deep into what could classify as one.

For those that cbf to look it up: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU [Yoshi-P (FFXIV) on ACT and Third Party Tools (eng subs)]

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

To be fair, they brought up an example of using a calculator as a third party tool in a video that's easily searchable on YouTube...so following their line of thinking, Discord could be one as well if they really got deep into what could classify as one.

For those that cbf to look it up: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU [Yoshi-P (FFXIV) on ACT and Third Party Tools (eng subs)]

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It would help if you actually accurately projected what they said in that clip.

Anything that modifies game files is a 3rd party tool and is banned. They outright said this.

Since they used the argument for ACT, this is where we will make the comparisons. Yoshi said, in theory, you could have the battle log up and calculate your dps in real time, does that count? They also said, the battle log is going to be there after the battle, so you could open the file and transfer it into excel and calculate your dps from there, is this also allowed? You haven't modified game files at all, just used what was already there. This is where they talk about the grey zone, and what actually counts as a 3rd party tool.

Considering they also mention using a mouse with extra buttons as a 3rd party tool, you can apply that to other things like Discord, but again, this is in that grey zone.

However, to re-iterate, they said anything that modifies the game files in any way is not allowed. This is not a grey area, this is outright not allowed. They also emphasised that, they cannot detect if you are using them or not, however, they can and will ban people for using them if they are caught. So really, if you do not flaunt it or talk about it ingame, you are not going to get caught.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

To be fair, they brought up an example of using a calculator as a third party tool in a video that's easily searchable on YouTube...so following their line of thinking, Discord could be one as well if they really got deep into what could classify as one.

For those that cbf to look it up: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU [Yoshi-P (FFXIV) on ACT and Third Party Tools (eng subs)]

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Just like Mayonaise is not a Instrument, Discord is not a 3rd Party Program, it really is not that hard to understand.

Is Spotify safe? What about Netflix? Is Chrome okay? Oh no, we need official answers quick!

By the way, a lot of these "streamers" are FOTM fans only. Flavour of the month. They stay for a little while, then move on to something else..they go where the money is. Twitch streamers are PAID for their content, so it isnt "free' either.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Actually, i do. I am aware of the streamer "presence", but up until recently FF 14 was sorta "in the background" as most of the streamers were busy streaming WOW...incl Asmongold who sneered at FF 14 as "weeb game". Wasnt until the penny finally dropped about WOWs large list of failures that he turned to FF 14.

Temporarily.

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Just want to confirm the fact that you don't.

Why do you think that subscriber numbers peaked towards the end of a post expansion patch (with very little additional content)? Why do you think that more people have been watching FF14? It's not that hard. No sure where your random animosity for streamers comes from (jealousy maybe?), but it doesn't change the facts.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Cause I hear Gshade is okay. But that is still 3rd part.

And while we joke about the discord thing, that is a legit TOS breaker.

So we need a list of what is okay.

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Short answer NONE are allowed however they have basically said time and time again that they cant tell what people have on there computers for the most part so basically if you announce it they wont know what you use.

Yeah, None.

We don't need to have a WoWification of FFXIV.

I really hope that SE, takes a firm stance on all Addons being against the ToS, and ban those who continue to make use of them.

There's something wrong with this community.
The dude legit said "do not use any add-ons, period."
and you people are trying to really find out what he meant.
Like...what can't ya'll not get? Legit question lmfao.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

There's something wrong with this community.
The dude legit said "do not use any add-ons, period."
and you people are trying to really find out what he meant.
Like...what can't ya'll not get? Legit question lmfao.

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it was more "don't use addons" *wink* *wink*
e.g if we don't catch wind we don't care
whats been the understanding between SE and the community since I started back in 2016

Plus they did say that they're looking at addons and looking to incorporate some of their feature sets, what in turn does validate them

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Originally Posted by Mosha

it was more "don't use addons" *wink* *wink*
e.g if we don't catch wind we don't care
whats been the understanding between SE and the community since I started back in 2016

Plus they did say that they're looking at addons and looking to incorporate some of their feature sets, what in turn does validate them

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Yeah but he also said this:
''MODS, including third party tools are against the TOS and it's bad. I'm not asking. DON'T do it.
Even if you use it discretely where it can't be detected, we want you to understand, that we may one day decide to announce the banning of all mod/third party software users. Please understand the risks.

He has now said the same thing, again, and the example was made from those 2 banned people.
It's still very "don't ask, don't tell" but when you're sitting here in the heat of the news, streaming addons...
I mean, what did anyone expect? No one listened the last several times he said it, now he has to take actions LOL.

What I will say is they need to update the Accessibility and more QoL or update the UI.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Yeah but he also said this:
''MODS, including third party tools are against the TOS and it's bad. I'm not asking. DON'T do it.
Even if you use it discretely where it can't be detected, we want you to understand, that we may one day decide to announce the banning of all mod/third party software users. Please understand the risks.

He has now said the same thing, again, and the example was made from those 2 banned people.
It's still very "don't ask, don't tell" but when you're sitting here in the heat of the news, streaming addons...
I mean, what did anyone expect? No one listened the last several times he said it, now he has to take actions LOL.

What I will say is they need to update the Accessibility and more QoL or update the UI.

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