Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

Nah, he got report brigaded by a bunch of petty arseholes.

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There is nothing petty about holding others accountable for breaking rules we all agreed on. What is petty is getting upset over being held accountable.

Moreover, most people wouldn’t be stupid enough to broadcast publicly their use of mods.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Welp. I guess many of our favorite streamers and tubers are about to get fucked over pretty hard once the brigade comes around and finds those minor quotes of "I don't think this is that bad" and decides that's more than enough.
The beauty of Zoomer culture, I guess. No wonder why touching grass is such a big deal.

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The streamer has nobody to blame but themselves. They are lucky not to be perma banned. YoshiP has been nothing but adamant on his stance, so not sure where the surprise or insults are coming from.

What part of “don’t talk about fight club, don’t stream fight club” wasn’t clear?

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Originally Posted by kaynide

What part of “don’t talk about fight club, don’t stream fight club” wasn’t clear?

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I dunno, probably that part where Yoshi-P didn't want people to "start wars" or brigade about policing others with his statement.
Which, yes, actually, it is petty behavior to be seeking these people out just to report them.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The streamer has nobody to blame but themselves. They are lucky not to be perma banned. YoshiP has been nothing but adamant on his stance, so not sure where the surprise or insults are coming from.

What part of “don’t talk about fight club, don’t stream fight club” wasn’t clear?

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people generally don't care for bootlicking, so that is probably where it is coming from

Frankly, anything goes at this point ever since the use of some Parsley add-on thingy with the waymarks helping clear an Ultimate happened. If a player openly uses an add-on while streaming/uploading videos after all of the ToS and warnings, then it's fair game.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

There is nothing petty about holding others accountable for breaking rules we all agreed on. What is petty is getting upset over being held accountable.

Moreover, most people wouldn’t be stupid enough to broadcast publicly their use of mods.

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The odds of him getting banned were pretty slim seeing how almost ever FFXIV streamer has ACT up. It is hands down due to the community mass reporting him that he was banned. Sure he broke ToS, but I think it is ridiculous how this community acts. I saw a demographic recently and most players are around my age between 30-40 which is probably the saddest part, this is the sort of behavior I would expect if a larger demographic was between 10-25.

So...a streamer streams WITH the add on visible?

...da hell? How foolish can a person be?

My take away from this is that Japanese forums are just as vicious and petty as the English ones. More so, perhaps. Brigading isn't usually tolerated.

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

My take away from this is that Japanese forums are just as vicious and petty as the English ones. More so, perhaps. Brigading isn't usually tolerated.

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5Chan and related forums are rather notorious for pulling stunts like this.

Sometimes they're mostly harmless and silly, like rigging popularity polls to be overwhelming in favor of someone/something extremely unpopular. Other times, they can be more...malicious.

I don't know why people are surprised that public actions will have public consequences.

It makes SENSE you'd ban the visible streamer or person breaking the rules. Reports or not. They are the public example that gets people to reconsider continuing them - and being so public about it.

This outrage over it is silly.

Its not that I agree with it. I am just not surprised and it makes sense on demonstrative public examples.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

The beauty of Zoomer culture, I guess. No wonder why touching grass is such a big deal.

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If anything more likely to be folks from my generation (Xennials) ... Zoomers LOVE everything being turned into a number contest and whatever-it-takes-to-win, they tend to actively embrace this kinda thing LOL

Us Xennials on the other hand who got into gaming in the olden days before meters got so ubiquitous it feels like everyone's expected to run one in a MMO - whether or not it's even okay by the TOS (and I'm pretty sure I can only think of three off the top of my head where it is - WoW, along with LotRO which has the same kind of Lua scripting system for UI mods, and Blade & Soul where there's an inbuilt DPS meter last I recall) - and put major efforts into improving one's numbers, I expect a lot of us have chips on our shoulders about the meter culture.

Yeah, I know even as far back as Burning Crusade there were "meter maids," but nowhere near the way things are nowadays (especially since in those days I recall most folks with Recount were mainly using it to boast when they were #1 ... people using it to harangue others for being #5 were rare). Hells, I don't think we even had logs in the guild where I got 12/12N 10/12H in Icecrown Citadel, now if you don't parse and log basically everything you do there's a significant part of the culture that gets sus (either that you're "bad" or that you're only posting your best runs).

It's just obnoxious. Used to be that you played games, you got that victory rush when you won and that was enough. Now it's "omg my/your stats aren't good enough" everywhere ...

JP and Karens, ruining stuff as usual.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

It is hands down due to the community mass reporting him that he was banned.

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I'm not even sure about "the community" part, it seems to have come from a bunch of 5chan dwellers on the JP side of things.
Then again I'm not surprised, I still remember the story about one player being harassed for months by parts of the JP community for using mods, and compared to their behaviour even our toxic players are pretty much saints.

Square, you need to stop letting the community use you as a shotgun against Streamers people don't like.

That news post is less then 24 hours and your giving people 10 day suspensions? even for retroactive VODs and videos?

That's the most heavy handed moderation I've ever seen, you're doing nothing to combat the "problem" just driving it underground, most teams just wont stream from now on, this does nothing but hurt you and generate less exposure in your game from future races, and builds a considerable amount of resentment considering you're swatting streamers using QoL mods and letting the actual underground cheaters continue to destroy things like PvP.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

Streamers: WHAT DID I EVEN DO!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WHAT IS THIS, I THOUGHT THIS WAS FREE SPEECH?? WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO?? I THOUGHT. WHAT?? HUH??? YOSHIDAAAAAAAAA YOU'RE NOT CLEAR ENOUGHHH
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ngl.
I read that in Xenosys's voice, and at the end, I imagined his bald head ringing that bell of his.

Could've just kept going after the actually malicious advantages by third party applications which are just outright cheating in the form of infinite sprint/cc immunity somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHRmlpqsRIA
This should be ban worthy, not a UI/Calculator, they, at it's very base form, give information that should've been there. Because it is there if it's coincidentally the focus target at the moment that mattered to give such information. I'd believe that they are banned and I certainly hope they are actually banned for how long it has been and (still rarely at least?)people in PvP are showing up with it.

The differences in the UI I see, the addon reduces the size of buffs/debuffs so it can actually all show, and has a timer. While the current one has a limit and doesn't show timers on the party list unless focus targeted.
It's not going to be an advantage when everyone at this stage is obviously already good, DSR should not be attracting this much attention to the point suspensions are being handed out to people who are still progging. At most, I may have accidentally murdered groups by spacing through yawning in P1s/P4SP2


I don't know how to set up some of these addons cause I can't be bothered to and I don't need it because I've been doing fine without it, at most, the only thing it does is tell me who messed up curtain call/chains. It'd be nice to have, but I do not find it an immediate advantage to the point it sped up prog/clear time. But then I remembered, both Hiro and bagel were in mid prog, they didn't even clear it yet. You took a person out of a static who made time to do an ultimate and now the entire group has to wait or re prog with another person.
But hey, people can also stretch updating Nvidia drivers to be a third party tool.

I hope I at least do not ever encounter having to play with or against a player who's scripting such as the infinite sprint I linked if they decide to ban petty issues that have little to no overall impact.

It feels incredibly dumb that they put time into thinking it's an issue.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I dunno, probably that part where Yoshi-P didn't want people to "start wars" or brigade about policing others with his statement.
Which, yes, actually, it is petty behavior to be seeking these people out just to report them.

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Don’t know what to tell you other than they played with fire and got burned.

You realize that GMs are the ones to actually investigate and ban people right? If there was no evidence of cheating, then the ban wouldn’t happen. Can’t blame people for doing their jobs any more than you could blame the police for acting on anonymous tips.

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Originally Posted by CalamityTwo

Square, you need to stop letting the community use you as a shotgun against Streamers people don't like.

That news post is less then 24 hours and your giving people 10 day suspensions? even for retroactive VODs and videos?

That's the most heavy handed moderation I've ever seen, you're doing nothing to combat the "problem" just driving it underground, most teams just wont stream from now on, this does nothing but hurt you and generate less exposure in your game from future races, and builds a considerable amount of resentment considering you're swatting streamers using QoL mods and letting the actual underground cheaters continue to destroy things like PvP.

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I mean, this is like finally getting caught speeding and complaining because you’ve always been speeding so it shouldn’t be a problem. It isn’t heavy handed because these rules have always been in effect. If anything blame the idiot cheaters who were doing so in extremely noticeable ways (pvp)to cause the hammer to come down so hard.

Just because a high profile player got caught on streams doesn’t mean they aren’t getting others as well- there is a regular post on accounts banned due to RMT for example.

Are they going to ban Pyromancer since he is streaming with reskinned UI?

/s

Sorry, but exactly this happens when cheats and other "grey area"-tools get the upper hand. Too many people overexaggerated it and now here comes the ban hammer. It will propably also hit many /gposers, who use some picture quality enhancement tools and "create your own pose"-tools. Many club photographers use those tools.



Cheers

The world progression pushes on content like this are some of the best marketing this game gets. Even if you personally dislike/hate/rage about the evil raiding scene, there is no denying that FFXIV as a game is typically dead on platforms like twitch outside of this time period.

Now what do we think the chances are of these teams bothering to stream next time round are?

This changes literally nothing and it certainly isn't going to stop some of these tools being shown.

It just costs the game free mindshare, advertising and excitement around the big new content of the day.

Great work :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The world progression pushes on content like this are some of the best marketing this game gets. Even if you personally dislike/hate/rage about the evil raiding scene, there is no denying that FFXIV as a game is typically dead on platforms like twitch outside of this time period.

Now what do we think the chances are of these teams bothering to stream next time round are?

This changes literally nothing and it certainly isn't going to stop some of these tools being shown.

It just costs the game free mindshare, advertising and excitement around the big new content of the day.

Great work :rolleyes:

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Call me a conspiracy theorist. But I think the person that wants the game to die the most... is Yoshi P himself.

Then he may finally take a nap.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Great, nothing of value was achieved. Instead we have some token gesture that didnt adress any sort of actual problem just so we can pretend that someting meaningful was done. The game is literally saved.

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hey, you can always ask the botters to stream

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

So...a streamer streams WITH the add on visible?

...da hell? How foolish can a person be?

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suspension causing dumb apparently
Listen to legal eagle people.
Don't record yourself doing a crime!

It's FFXIV, there are many who will report for anything and everything.

"High" tier raiders: We want hard things, give us ultimate. The game is too easy for us, we DEMAND challenges.
Also "High" tiers raiders: *Proceed to use third party tools that display information that they shouldn't know and a bot to auto-pilot the calls. Then complain because it was too easy.*

Will you respect this players, or those who doesn't use any third party tool?

Let's be real. They said million of times. You CANNOT use third party tools, it doesn't matter if you think is fair or not. It is still NOT allowed, but they choose to ignore it. A mature person will accept the consequences of their acts. Like if you pirate you Play Station and then Sony bans you, you cannot complaint about it.

There are a bunch of things in the ToS that people don't care. No one reads it, but no reading it doesn't allow you to ignore what is written there. You cannot even datamine, because all the assets belongs to SE. You cannot modify them, nor even swap them. You cannot touch any byte in the game folder. You cannot by any means use a software that intercepts data from memory or network. Yet people do it.

Use the common sense. It is the streamers the ones who should make an example by playing vanilla. Like the game is meant to play. And then they are the first ones ignoring it.

What more surprise me is the amount of people defending to cheat in a game. I can't even believe it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's FFXIV, there are many who will report for anything and everything.

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Which is honestly a good thing otherwise you end up with literally the global chat of every western mmo where people can post the most vile, hateful, racist etc etc comments and get away with it because the players know nothing will happen if they report so nobody bothers, resulting in a circus of a global chat which at times can be funny but I think i prefer a chat that is used for its original purpose, not trolling and baiting sensitive people.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

People are seriously frickin' petty. If it isn't giving someone an overt advantage, don't frickin' report.

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That's ffxiv community in nutshell. Reporting over petty and small reasons because they CAN. Someone used a curse word? Let's mass report them...

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

"High" tier raiders: We want hard things, give us ultimate. The game is too easy for us, we DEMAND challenges.
Also "High" tiers raiders: *Proceed to use third party tools that display information that they shouldn't know and a bot to auto-pilot the calls. Then complain because it was too easy.*

Will you respect this players, or those who doesn't use any third party tool?

Let's be real. They said million of times. You CANNOT use third party tools, it doesn't matter if you think is fair or not. It is still NOT allowed, but they choose to ignore it. A mature person will accept the consequences of their acts. Like if you pirate you Play Station and then Sony bans you, you cannot complaint about it.

There are a bunch of things in the ToS that people don't care. No one reads it, but no reading it doesn't allow you to ignore what is written there. You cannot even datamine, because all the assets belongs to SE. You cannot modify them, nor even swap them. You cannot touch any byte in the game folder. You cannot by any means use a software that intercepts data from memory or network. Yet people do it.

Use the common sense. It is the streamers the ones who should make an example by playing vanilla. Like the game is meant to play. And then they are the first ones ignoring it.

What more surprise me is the amount of people defending to cheat in a game. I can't even believe it.

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It does matter if everyone thinks it's fair or not though. Discord is the best proof for that. By definition it's a third party tool (quite an impactful one) but obviously everyone is ok with using it. So much so that even bringing discord up is considered a bad faith argument. Rules provide a framework to act under, that doesnt necessarily mean SE has to enforce them to the letter. When a certain third party tool is deemed not harmful, why should anyone (including SE) care?

Rules arent set in stone, they should be applied in a smart way. The current response to report brigades, a thing yoship literally does not want, is not smart. Why do you think courts exist in the real world? It's because you can not account for every situation when writing laws, thus do they have to be interpreted. Following the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law is a bad idea and will only cause needless damage.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Which is honestly a good thing otherwise you end up with literally the global chat of every western mmo where people can post the most vile, hateful, racist etc etc comments and get away with it because the players know nothing will happen if they report so nobody bothers, resulting in a circus of a global chat which at times can be funny but I think i prefer a chat that is used for its original purpose, not trolling and baiting sensitive people.

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There is a diffrence between justified reporting, and what largely goes on in FFXIV. Many players have malicious intent, reporting over some of the most benign issues. Often times the GMs act on it, and they know it. Also, believe it or not, people do bait others in this game, quite often. It's done in order to draw out a reaction that they can report them over.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

"High" tier raiders: We want hard things, give us ultimate. The game is too easy for us, we DEMAND challenges.
Also "High" tiers raiders: *Proceed to use third party tools that display information that they shouldn't know and a bot to auto-pilot the calls. Then complain because it was too easy.*

Will you respect this players, or those who doesn't use any third party tool?

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Bet you can't clear the Ultimate even with those tools if you tried.

You might not realize this but most Ultimate raiders using non-Cactbot tools like UI mods, Alex, or buff timer trackers can easily clear the raid without these tools. They use them for comfort.

Try playing the game at a high ping where you clip literally every GCD when you double weave. Then use Alex. You'll realize why this is a comfort issue.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Also, believe it or not, people do bait others in this game, quite often. It's done in order to draw out a reaction that they can report them over.

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Hah, that already happened multiple times on the forums.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Hah, that already happened multiple times on the forums.

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That happens all the time on the forums, it's a matter of recognizing it. :p

Well first off i dont agree with people using "reporting" as a weapon for no reason but truth of the matter is addons and 3rd party tools arent allowed and yoshi p has stated numerous times basically if you dont advertise/ announce or whatever that your using certain ones they dont know your using them. Personally since i have started playing i dont use any because well not worth the risk and find it nice not having to find and download addons people say you should be using for shit. In short using addons on a stream is like speeding down the highway everyday then complain when you get pulled over for it, especially when yoshi has even said that the devs do watch streamers and content creaters for the game its a gamble to say the least

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

The odds of him getting banned were pretty slim seeing how almost ever FFXIV streamer has ACT up. It is hands down due to the community mass reporting him that he was banned. Sure he broke ToS, but I think it is ridiculous how this community acts. I saw a demographic recently and most players are around my age between 30-40 which is probably the saddest part, this is the sort of behavior I would expect if a larger demographic was between 10-25.

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You’re not wrong, the community is childish at times. I can agree there. Still, I stand by him knowing he was playing with fire.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

You’re not wrong, the community is childish at times. I can agree there. Still, I stand by him knowing he was playing with fire.

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The fire he was playing with was that a kiwi farms like part of the community existed.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The fire he was playing with was that a kiwi farms like part of the community existed.

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I agree the community was a problem, but if he wasn’t using mods there would be nothing to report, yeah?

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I agree the community was a problem, but if he wasn’t using mods there would be nothing to report, yeah?

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But he was using such a benign mod that barely gives you any advantage other than comfort.

It's literally like if you're calling the police on someone who is speeding 1 mph over the speed limit. Yes, it's technically illegal.

BUT WHO CARES

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I agree the community was a problem, but if he wasn’t using mods there would be nothing to report, yeah?

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It's a targeted harassment campaign. Even if he was squeaky clean and went to church every Sunday they'd fabricate something or fond some way to catch him out.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

But he was using such a benign mod that barely gives you any advantage other than comfort.

It's literally like if you're calling the police on someone who is speeding 1 mph over the speed limit. Yes, it's technically illegal.

BUT WHO CARES

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It was SE’s call. The mass reporting is only relevant to get the “eye of sauron” to glare at the player in question. An actual GM reviewed the information and decided that whatever Streamer Dood was doing was actionable. It was the GMs call, and if they had decided it wasn’t a big deal, they would have issued a lesser penalty.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

It's a targeted harassment campaign. Even if he was squeaky clean and went to church every Sunday they'd fabricate something or fond some way to catch him out.

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But he wasn’t squeaky clean. Find me an actual case where someone got falsely accused of something and got auctioned against by FF’s GMs, then we have a completely different problem to discuss and my opinion would be very against what the GMs did.