Why telling people to unsub is a horrible defense of the game.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

It's those who quietly go away and never return.

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Hard to please somebody who doesn't say anything. Also a bit arrogant to assume they would side with you, when they don't talk to you either.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Asking for it to be changed is not whining, but simply bringing up "I can't unsub because then I'll lose my house" often is.

It's not too often I see people ask for the ability to keep your house though. Last time I brought up extending the time you can be away from the house, in fact, most people were pro-losing house. Some even wanted it to be shorter.

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Because most people only want things that directly benefit them in some way.

Another Skiros thread.
Man, you are the exact counterexample to what you are preaching.
Look how many veteran players are responding to all your threads!
You are a giant entertainer on these forums. You are creating your own MMO content, and bring dozens of people along with you for the ride.
That's what MMOs should be about IMO. Not about clearing a raid every week, not about becoming a top 10 player, not about reaching that optimal parsing, not about farming those 99 totems.
They are about creating your own content, and you are doing a fantastic job at it!
Keep it up!

Am subbed for my house!

I spend years decorating it. Do I like subbing for it? Nope!

Do I have to? Yep!

I just wish the housing crisis and the 'necessary' Demo timer would end for good ^^'

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Just admit you're a bad troll, honey. No one gives a damn.

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If he's a troll then disengage.
You literally fight him in every post he makes dude lmao.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

As bad as that sounds, at least people have Apartments. Those don't go anywhere. It's not a solution, for sure, but eh it's something?

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honestly if they made the apartments slightly larger, or offered versions with an upstairs/downstairs i would be happy. I really don't care about having a house plot, but i do care about having a larger housing space where i can flex my decorating skills because my apartment, while nice, really isn't big enough for the things i want to do without compromising on my design which majorly sucks.

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Originally Posted by Bad_Luck

The MMO that is about 18 YEARS old? Yeah, what a tragedy?

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the only reason WoW even failed was because the company pissed on the things that made the game great, namely the gameplay. FF14 isn't anywhere close to being in the same boat, for starters it is a story based MMO and it's absolutely not lacking in that department right now. I mean Endwalker was probably the most successful expansion to date, it was so successful they had to stop selling copies of the game because the servers literally couldn't handle the influx of people.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Another Skiros thread.
Man, you are the exact counterexample to what you are preaching.
Look how many veteran players are responding to all your threads!
You are a giant entertainer on these forums. You are creating your own MMO content, and bring dozens of people along with you for the ride.
That's what MMOs should be about IMO. Not about clearing a raid every week, not about becoming a top 10 player, not about reaching that optimal parsing, not about farming those 99 totems.
They are about creating your own content, and you are doing a fantastic job at it!
Keep it up!

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honestly i feel kinda the opposite lmao. i have participated in a number of the threads he has started and honestly his penchant for tuning out people who disagree with his opinion now causes an audible groan whenever i see a new thread pop up that is made by him

edit: also, if this was sarcasm, im sorry. i don't pick up sarcasm very well through text

Is housing really there to keep people subbed when like 1% of players can even get a house? :p

It is absolutely true that telling people who write negative feedback about the game to leave is incredibly unproductive. If they didn't want the game to be better they would have left already instead of spending their time writing feedback. If you only ever listen to the people who like things the way they are the game will slowly shrink over time because every issue that goes ignored acts as a filter that takes a small percentage of players out of the game. Even if just 1% of your players are complaining, if a dev team falls into the habit of just going "Let's just wait until the complains stop by themselves" what they are actually doing over and over is shrink their player base. The reason the complaints stop is because those people left. Losing 1% of your players may not seem like a big deal, but it adds up. You can only do that so many times.

You absolutely should vote with your wallet. If you are unhappy with the game, you should stop giving money for it. Money is the only thing companies understand and SE needs FF14 to be successful. If you want to keep up with friends you made ingame search for ways outside the game to keep in contact.

This is never a black and white thing, you gotta weigh pros and cons. None of that however can reasonably be used to try to dismiss someone's feedback. People wouldnt complain about stuff if they didnt care about the game. They'd just leave if they really didnt care and no one would ever know.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You absolutely should vote with your wallet. If you are unhappy with the game, you should stop giving money for it. Money is the only thing companies understand and SE needs FF14 to be successful. If you want to keep up with friends you made ingame search for ways outside the game to keep in contact.

This is never a black and white thing, you gotta weigh pros and cons. None of that however can reasonably be used to try to dismiss someone's feedback. People wouldnt complain about stuff if they didnt care about the game. They'd just leave if they really didnt care and no one would ever know.

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This. ^ It's a big way to actually make an impact on a company and get them to listen. If the playerbase actually bands together and affects their profits, it will get their attention really quick.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

This. ^ It's a big way to actually make an impact on a company and get them to listen. If the playerbase actually bands together and affects their profits, it will get their attention really quick.

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https://beta.techcrunch.com/wp-conte.../noboycott.jpg

That only matters if the playerbase has the willpower.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Wanting content that lasts in *this game* means we want to play *this game* not another one, especially for us veterans who've been here since the beginning.

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What do you mean with this?
FFXIV does a better job than other MMO's at keeping old content relevant and you still got flashy rewards ( especially from Ultimates ) that will last as '' bragging rights '' forever.
Ultimately tho this is a MMO so yes things are going to move forward and content is going to become *less* relevant but at least FFXIV doesn't make it irrelevant.

I'd like to be able to do more Savage content every week but ultimately it has been like this since the beginning and the game is still full of other activities you can partake in.
It's also early in the expansion more is to come, when they unlock the books in the tier 1 for Savage for example I'll be farming them for glam on top of doing tier 2.
The irony too is that then when the devs release content like Eureka or Bozja people complain that it's too grindy.
( Btw, even Eureka still has a very active community that does it on a daily basis. Maybe it doesn't suit your tastes but that doesn't mean it isn't there. )

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I'm sure that went so well for WoW.

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This is FFXIV not WoW, the games have very little in common at this point.
In fact the devs did try to '' copy '' WoW in the early days but went back on it and have been straying further and further away from it with time.

Except that getting content all at once just makes the players do it all asap. You just can’t win here they also can’t release content to keep people satisfied, so yea that’s what they are telling you when they say it’s ok to unsub.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Is housing really there to keep people subbed when like 1% of players can even get a house? :p

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I don't believe it is. I've taken extended breaks in the past knowing I'd lose my house both times. Back in those days, before the random timer thing, it was a lot easier to find a Small plot on my server so it wasn't a major deal. When returning after the population increase started and random timer became a thing, I quickly realized that if I get a house this go-round, I'm going to keep my sub going and log in each month to keep the house even if I need to take a break.

I DO recommend people take breaks; short-term or extended. Getting away from the game for a while helps "clean the palette" and renew interest in the game when you do come back. If you try a different game and find yourself really enjoying it, there's no reason to stop playing it for the sake of playing a game you may be uninspired to play (XIV). For me, the last break I took was to get away from MMOs completely. A year or so later, after giving Classic a go, I realized how much I loved XIV and decided to come back, but with a much more relaxed focus. It really is the best game for me at this point in my life and I'll keep playing while I'm having fun. When it stops being fun, I do something else until I want to come back.

To me, that's what "Unsub and do something else" is all about. If there's very little to keep you interested and/or enjoying playing, don't force it. You'll only start to resent the game and SE if you do. Step away, enjoy something else for a while, and come back when you've got inspiration again. You'll likely maintain interest in the game longer if you do.

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Originally Posted by RayneBoemir

Except that getting content all at once just makes the players do it all asap. You just can’t win here they also can’t release content to keep people satisfied, so yea that’s what they are telling you when they say it’s ok to unsub.

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No single amount of content is everlasting in an MMO. People seem to crave it but when you do it and get it done whats the point? Ask for more?

Its an unhealthy way to view games and people just need to learn to get their fill and take breaks.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

What do you mean with this?
FFXIV does a better job than other MMO's at keeping old content relevant and you still got flashy rewards ( especially from Ultimates ) that will last as '' bragging rights '' forever.
Ultimately tho this is a MMO so yes things are going to move forward and content is going to become *less* relevant but at least FFXIV doesn't make it irrelevant.

I'd like to be able to do more Savage content every week but ultimately it has been like this since the beginning and the game is still full of other activities you can partake in.
It's also early in the expansion more is to come, when they unlock the books in the tier 1 for Savage for example I'll be farming them for glam on top of doing tier 2.
The irony too is that then when the devs release content like Eureka or Bozja people complain that it's too grindy.
( Btw, even Eureka still has a very active community that does it on a daily basis. Maybe it doesn't suit your tastes but that doesn't mean it isn't there. )

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FFXIV suffers ongoing issues with having lasting content that makes use of our *current* max lvl abilities where combat is generally considered to be the most fun and complete for each class, barring some more recent job changes that can only be described as out of touch at best and catastrophic at worst.

Deep Dungeon back in Heavensward and Stormblood was an excellent example of this, being repeatable and offering many rewards. Then they decided to cancel it for Shadowbringers and frontloaded the expansion with excessive Crafter/Gatherer content that then went on to precipitate a content drought for those of us who are primarily interested in combat.

Bozja, while a massive improvement over the disaster that was Eureka, is content that I vastly enjoyed in Shadowbringers but CLL, DR, and now the Dalriada being bottlenecks was very damaging. Do not make it annoying to get into the fun, repeatable content. I do not care that there is an "active Eureka community" because there is no way someone like me can jump in and get to the fun part without a grind that borders on absurd. This doesn't hold for Bozja, which never went through a Pagos phase nor did it lock my weapon/armor grinds behind getting almost every logos action.

Deep Dungeon and Relics should come as soon as possible - preferably on expansion release day, especially if it functions as repeatable levelling content like Bozja did where I get to use my fun kit and not my incomplete one. For the time being while I am content grinding PVP, which did not pose a ridiculous barrier to entry to me, I would like to be able to use my PVE abilities as well.

Unsubbing is the only legitimate reaction to a subscription service you aren't enjoying. Why, god, why, should you keep your sub if you feel strongly that you aren't being served by it? There is no better way to get what you want than to quit your sub, and no better way to ensure the game's decline than to keep paying for content you feel is bad.

It is not your responsibility to make the game good. Your sub plays no part in making it good.

I don't think telling people to unsub is a good idea. It is rude and dismissive. I do think all complaints should be heard, but I think when a group of people has complained too much wherein the discussions surrounding the topic deviate into impolite territory, or wherein the complaint or criticisms has the expectation of major overhaul, both in content or philosophy then I think either expectations of complaint need to be tempered, or the willingness to look at other games needs to be considered.

I don't mean that in the direction that complaints don't matter and nor do the criticisms, but more in the direction that it's a fairly unreasonable to expect any serious, or significant overhaul/rework in philosophy or direction behind the game.

Edit: Sometimes taking a step back and reconsidering your options/avenues is the most logical course of action, or the willingness to do such at the very least, as opposed to beating a dead horse so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I'm sure that went so well for WoW.

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This game's already worse than WoW for me tbh. At least WoW has stuff for long time players to do. >_>

Just my opinion though, as someone who hasn't felt like they've had anything to do in this game outside of raid time since the end of stormblood. (Even new patches I have finished in less than a day of playtime since then, excluding bozja which I just hated.)

I mean i have unsubbed for some months this year and came back for 6.1 like nothing happened... and many other people have their own reason to do. Some are not even due to the game's fault, money, free time, work etc.
It is literally a subscription, do what you need to do with your money including if you are feeling unsatisfied, feeling burn out etc

Not everybody will write an essay or anything on why they unsub. Data and money are enough of feedback in those cases.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

This game's already worse than WoW for me tbh. At least WoW has stuff for long time players to do. >_>

Just my opinion though, as someone who hasn't felt like they've had anything to do in this game outside of raid time since the end of stormblood. (Even new patches I have finished in less than a day of playtime since then, excluding bozja which I just hated.)

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And nothing for newcomers. And dozens of empty areas where nothing happens once their expansion died out. While the end game is the endless repetition of various daily and weekly tasks in order to keep yourself relevant and farm your borrowed power. The same game that basically changed their loot system into slot machine so that players stay longer throwing in weekly and daily rewards just so you don't even dare to take the break. Such golden standard that the game continuously suffered from inability to keep their subscription base ever since Cataclysm dropped

(Despite being a troll thread)

If it isnt fun, Unsub.
The game will go on...like, really.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

And nothing for newcomers. And dozens of empty areas where nothing happens once their expansion died out. While the end game is the endless repetition of various daily and weekly tasks in order to keep yourself relevant and farm your borrowed power. The same game that basically changed their loot system into slot machine so that players stay longer throwing in weekly and daily rewards just so you don't even dare to take the break. Such golden standard that the game continuously suffered from inability to keep their subscription base ever since Cataclysm dropped

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ngl thought you were talking about FFXIV until the last sentence cos all that same stuff applies more or less, especially empty zones lol.

Different strokes and your wow complaints aren't really relevant to the topic. My beef is XIV has jack all to do, and WoW has things that are fun to do, so I prefer WoW right now. But I still play both. Would be lying if FFXIV wasn't driving me away with its constant issues lately, though.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

ngl thought you were talking about FFXIV until the last sentence cos all that same stuff applies more or less, especially empty zones lol.

Different strokes.

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Really? Weird being low level and pretty early on progression I still pass by other players doing similar content. Still find players doing PotD, Raids, ARR Extreme trials and completing quests. I can join majority of the content and find a party in reasonable time the only major exception being ARR Coils of Bahamuth. Ultimately there's enough for me to do with others despite still being in early HW. Can't say the same about my experience in WoW where it was one giant race to max level and then you could actually start playing the game... By grinding dailies and tasks to maintain your progress...

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Really? Weird being low level and pretty early on progression I still pass by other players doing similar content. Still find players doing PotD, Raids, ARR Extreme trials and completing quests. I can join majority of the content and find a party in reasonable time the only major exception being ARR Coils of Bahamuth. Ultimately there's enough for me to do with others despite still being in early HW. Can't say the same about my experience in WoW where it was one giant race to max level and then you could actually start playing the game... By grinding dailies and tasks to maintain your progress...

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Sounds like you had a bad experience, or played WoW during a bad patch cycle. Lots of people play WoW just for leveling just like people play FFXIV just for leveling and the only time it'd be a 'race to max level' would be if you were being pressured by friends who don't want to level with you, much like XIV actually. For old zones, the difference is XIV's story requires you to go everywhere (and then never again when that MSQ is over), while WoW lets you do the stories you want to do since they aren't necessarily connected, this might make WoW 'emptier' but it allows for more player choice. WoW doesn't even have dailies anymore either, the reason WoW gets a rap for 'game doesn't start til endgame' is because there is just so much to do at max level, but that doesn't mean there isn't stuff to do during leveling either.

But like I said different strokes, this isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand. WoW just has more to do for a long-time player. All that stuff you mentioned is stuff I've literally cleared years ago a hundred times so I have no desire to do it again, especially since they're much easier now then they used to be (and even when I did want to do them, parties never filled up unless it was unsynced. Only reason it might be better now is because of the surge of new players recently, it'll die again).

If I tell someone to unsub I'm not defending the game, I'm thinking about the person's happiness. If you're legit not having fun and the devs are taking the game a direction that you don't like, why would you continue to give them money? You're supporting something you don't enjoy. At the end of the day it's a videogame and there's other options out there. If I don't like playing it I'm not going to play it. If people are being critical of the game but still like to play it, that's a different story. But if people are critical while not enjoying the game anymore and are still giving Square money, the healthier option is to unsub.

I'm not going to keep spending money at a restaurant I don't like, why would I do the same with a videogame?

I wouldn't encourage people to unsub from a game unless the players are the ones suffering. An example is Asmongold to WoW. Only when the players are looked at as "Entitled" or a "Resource that needs to be managed" does it warrant a "end your sub". I came over here because the player base is treated with respect and kindness by the devs.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

while WoW lets you do the stories you want to do since they aren't necessarily connected, this might make WoW 'emptier' but it allows for more player choice. WoW doesn't even have dailies anymore either, the reason WoW gets a rap for 'game doesn't start til endgame' is because there is just so much to do at max level, but that doesn't mean there isn't stuff to do during leveling either.

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Definitely not my experience after downloading the 'free to play' version of the game back in January just to see how things have changed. The current game is no longer a leisurely stroll through your favorite expansions. It has become

• Start playing at level 1 by going to some Mysterious Island, without context or concern for establishing anything about the World Background.
  
• Hit the climax of Mysterious Island at level 10 (or 11, in my case), go to Orgrimmar (I assume Alliance goes to Stormwind) and move directly into Battle for Azeroth -- the expansion I was in when I quit the game after 10 years. No context, no understanding of who the people I'm dealing with are, or why we're here in the first place or ...
  
• Get to level 50 and get dumped immediately into Shadowland expansion (well, you have to buy the expansion first).

None of this "stories you want to do". No dailies anymore, just a grind for resources to enhance your character that wither away at expansions end (I'm still salty as heck about the transition from Legions to BFA, where you throw away that cool weapon you had spent so many resources building it into something cooler only to have it replaced within the first minute of the new expansion).

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WoW just has more to do for a long-time player.

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Only if you want to play the 'end game raiding' game. Otherwise it's pretty dead now. If they had the same leveling experience back in BC, I'd have quit the game within months, not spent 10 years playing it.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

None of this "stories you want to do". No dailies anymore, just a grind for resources to enhance your character that wither away at expansions end (I'm still salty as heck about the transition from Legions to BFA, where you throw away that cool weapon you had spent so many resources building it into something cooler only to have it replaced within the first minute of the new expansion).

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You go to Chromie and you can pick a different expansion to level in. Unless that is locked from trail version.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

You go to Chromie and you can pick a different expansion to level in. Unless that is locked from trail version.

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"Level" by that you mean blasting through vast amounts of levels in an afternoon (20+) because the game is so hyper focused on "end game" that the leveling experience ultimately doesn't matter in the slightest and has been nerfed into oblivion.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I think they're just trying to give you a clue that things likely aren't going to change and maybe you should find a different game to play rather than praying that this one changes to suit your needs?

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Bingo.

If you have complaints about the game, voice them in an intelligent manner that amounts to more than "I don't like this, fix it! (usually followed by some combination of insulting the devs for being lazy/incompetent/liars/etc."
If, however, you've been complaining about the game and/or the developers being bad for years now then maybe you should just accept that the game isn't what you want it to be and move on. Some of the users here complain that the game hasn't been good since Heavensward. Heavensward came out 7 years ago. Stormblood came out 5 years ago. If the game hasn't been good since either of those two, according to you, it's been bad (or at least on the downward trend) for literally longer than it was good. Let that sink in for a second. You've been paying for and supporting something you actively dislike for at least 5 years. Those devs that you claim are useless/incompetent/lazy/liars? You've been paying their salaries for at least 5 years.

In what other world would you feel happy doing that and wanting to keep doing it? A restaurant used to be great 7 years ago but has sucked ever since? Would you really still be going there every week? You've been married to your partner for 12 years but the last 7 years have been increasing amounts of awful? Would you really not be looking for the door?

Or, maybe, you just get off on being a melodramatic whiner and *gasp* don't actually think the game is anywhere near as bad as you like to claim it is. Or, maybe, you should just admit that you're addicted and have an unhealthy relationship with something that is clearly just making you unhappy (and is costing you relatively high amount of money to keep doing).

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

You go to Chromie and you can pick a different expansion to level in. Unless that is locked from trail version.

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You can only access Chromie time if you've completed the entire BfA expansion on at least one character. Otherwise you are very much forced to do BfA, just like with Shadowlands you are forced to follow the story until you've completed it at least once.

Also, WoW does indeed have dailies, or at least they did in 9.1. Korthia/Maw Dailies would like to say hi. Korthia dailies being required because you needed to do the things to get several different currencies to be able to access several different things that if you didn't have you wouldn't be able to get into M+ groups. Now I will admit, maybe they moved away from that in 9.2.... but I'm gonna have to press X to doubt.

Nor is any of this relevant to the thread at hand. If a person has a complaint that has a reasonable fix, not something that would require the Devs to likely reconstruct huge portions of the game (I've seen a few wanting stuff like that) or take a huge shift from the current set-up (and even then everyone is allowed their opinions) then telling them to unsub is uncalled for. Now if someone is posting multiple complain threads a week and never seems to have anything good to say about the game I can see it being a response, and not as a way to defend the game but as a serious concern on whether or not that person is actually enjoying their free time. After all, it is a game. If you don't enjoy it why play it?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

You go to Chromie and you can pick a different expansion to level in. Unless that is locked from trail version.

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As of right now that only works for alt characters. Those starting the game for the first time go straight to Battle for Azeroth.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Bingo.

If you have complaints about the game, voice them in an intelligent manner that amounts to more than "I don't like this, fix it! (usually followed by some combination of insulting the devs for being lazy/incompetent/liars/etc."
If, however, you've been complaining about the game and/or the developers being bad for years now then maybe you should just accept that the game isn't what you want it to be and move on. Some of the users here complain that the game hasn't been good since Heavensward. Heavensward came out 7 years ago. Stormblood came out 5 years ago. If the game hasn't been good since either of those two, according to you, it's been bad (or at least on the downward trend) for literally longer than it was good. Let that sink in for a second. You've been paying for and supporting something you actively dislike for at least 5 years. Those devs that you claim are useless/incompetent/lazy/liars? You've been paying their salaries for at least 5 years.

In what other world would you feel happy doing that and wanting to keep doing it? A restaurant used to be great 7 years ago but has sucked ever since? Would you really still be going there every week? You've been married to your partner for 12 years but the last 7 years have been increasing amounts of awful? Would you really not be looking for the door?

Or, maybe, you just get off on being a melodramatic whiner and *gasp* don't actually think the game is anywhere near as bad as you like to claim it is. Or, maybe, you should just admit that you're addicted and have an unhealthy relationship with something that is clearly just making you unhappy (and is costing you relatively high amount of money to keep doing).

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One of the issue's I've noticed is more ppl emerging that display a belief that every game should cater to them and what they want specifically. One of the most recent examples would be Elden Ring where it appears a number of streamers grabbed the game because of hype or popularity having never played a souls-like game before and doing no research then having a meltdown within the first 20 minutes of playing the game because it handed them their ass which they then followed with blatantly insulting the game and every aspect of it biasedly, insulting From Software and the dev team that worked on it, even insulting the players and community that enjoy the game and games like it.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

(Despite being a troll thread)

If it isnt fun, Unsub.
The game will go on...like, really.

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Careful, you might get labeled a Boot-licking White Knight Cult Member that thinks the game can do no wrong and is the perfect angel.

I rarely see anyone insisting that the game should cater to them and them alone. It just so happens that there's a lot of posters who like to drift from thread to thread in an attempt to police what feedback is offered and insist that it's 'nOt ThAt KiNd Of GaMe' in response to pretty much any suggestion whatsoever.

If anything, I see a lot of people asking for more variety in general as well as content that dynamic and doesn't require a huge amount of setup in order to jump into.

Do you keep paying for Netflix if you don't like the shows? Do you keep eating at that restaurant if they changed the recipes up n you no longer enjoy their food? Why is being subbed to xiv any different? This has nothing to do with defense. It's called common sense. Don't put you money into things you aren't enjoying

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Do you keep paying for Netflix if you don't like the shows? Do you keep eating at that restaurant if they changed the recipes up n you no longer enjoy their food? Why is being subbed to xiv any different? This has nothing to do with defense. It's called common sense. Don't put you money into things you aren't enjoying

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It is also entirely possible to enjoy a game despite its flaws, while being able to criticize what one doesn't like. A lot of the time, especially lately, the default reaction to most complaints has been "leave then, no one cares" as if it is some sort of personal attack. A few regulars have been called out on this, and none of them take kindly to that. Well, neither do people being told to leave. It's not as black and white as some make it out to be.