Very interesting...

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Originally Posted by viion

on xi or xiv? on XI i had a few rmt and sometimes an ls member. In XIV my blacklist is full of Japanese who have to use 1 line per letter when shouting, has to be the most annoying shit ever and i dont know why they dont get a warning for it.

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I dunno, maybe because Japanese is normally read vertically instead of horizontally.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

They're not afraid to use their blacklist, I see....
Does anyone actually put people into their blacklist? I haven't found anyone who is really aggravating enough to scrawl their name into the list....

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Yes. So far only English speaking players who like to shout bad jokes or the same WTS adverts every minute in Ul'dah. But I don't like to make assumptions on where they are from since there are English speakers the world over.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

I dunno, maybe because Japanese is normally read vertically instead of horizontally.

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I get that with English text inside of Japanese sentences, where one English letter comes up per line.

I think it's a bug of the chat log rather than something people are doing intentionally. I did report it to SE through their web site, but that's kind of like throwing things into a black box.

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Originally Posted by EQ85

The generalizations are nice but I think it goes both ways. I can't tell you how many jp's have dropped in the pts I've been in without warning, using the [Time for work!]

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Um. My 2 LSs are Japanese so I party with Japanese players about 99% of the time. Usually there is talk in Japanese about the need to disband before actually doing so -- perhaps in the LS chat rather than the Party chat.

Suddenly disbanding without warning to anyone would be EXTREMELY rude and probably not forgotten.

I hope that they were just not able to communicate the need to disband in English and so it seemed really abrupt. ><

Serklets Earth Powder no longer hits the Party members who are in the first floor (this was horrendous. Before Shiia, my character named Xenno an elvaan mage were exping in there, and all of a sudden, BAM all party member dead. Why? Seklet's aoe affected even on the first floor...).

lmao to this, great read ty for posting.

I just read entire thread. I'm glad to see some people making the connection between XI's development and XIV's, as I do believe they are quite similar. Early in the XI days I recall the Japanese players flat out ignoring NA and EU players. As we adapted to their play-styles and they to ours, things changed for the better. You can still find bad apples on both sides, such as those who were unwilling to even acknowledge the JP player base, and JP players that just flat out call us rude.

I think in FFXIV the friendly players have returned from the Japanese player base, as well as those few bad apples. However I believe the NA player base has changed and forgotten the relationships that were established in XI, and we are starting over.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Um. My 2 LSs are Japanese so I party with Japanese players about 99% of the time. Usually there is talk in Japanese about the need to disband before actually doing so -- perhaps in the LS chat rather than the Party chat.

Suddenly disbanding without warning to anyone would be EXTREMELY rude and probably not forgotten.

I hope that they were just not able to communicate the need to disband in English and so it seemed really abrupt. ><

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This is always with just one jp in an NA pt. I would normally just write it off as something came up, thus no notice, but it seems more often than not, how they were leaving the pts.

I was just giving an example of how it can go both ways, but my experience with jp pts has mostly been positive. A lot of times they brought me to pt in places I haven't been before, using setups I haven't seen and going out of their way to make sure I know what's going on, since I don't speak a word of japanese.

Interesting to me was the level cap raised every couple months initially.

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Originally Posted by Lock_Hyur

I played XI up until lv80 and abyssea... then switched to XIV at beta.

One porblem with JP Culture is that they rarely try new "out of the box" type things. I found it was usually the NAs that tried new strategies for exp party or NMs etc. NA, while being dicks, were the ones to go out on a limb and try something new and sometimes strange. JP were good at replicating&improving on what others created.

OP:

I hope XIV gets better like XI did. I enjoy XIV but, like my work shirts, it does need some ironing.

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not for me. I melee rdm since well they can. jp... open minded.. NA: YOU SUCK RDM CAN'T MELEE
/sh such and such sucks at rdm don;t party with her.

ya.. they try new thinga >.>

I agree everyone is good and bad. But i rarely ran into rude jp players. I mostly ran into rude english players. Not because what was said, but how they acted.

But it was still rare to actually meet a rude person in ffxi. it was like for every 20 ppl 5 would be rude. Which is why i'm kinda like wtf at this forum community. I was expecting much more ffxi community then stuff I seen in WoW.

I do find it funny that worms used to move. And that ppl camped in davoi, the necropolis, and other places. And that pld old main weapon was the great sword and drk never really had great swords.
Personallt i think ffxi had a worst launch then ffxiv. Least we didn't have the devs play keep away with sneak while opening chests. I woulda been peeved off.

Interesting points Kilta. Very cool to see some of the differences from your point of view.

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Originally Posted by Aratharn

Interesting to me was the level cap raised every couple months initially.

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It also seemed they didn't have as severe (if any at all) of a problem as XIV seems to have with it's current class system :/

Biggest point of interest for me.

Launch: 5/16, 2002
Sky NMs: 12/16, 2003
Dynamis: 2/26, 2004

End-game events weren't released for 19-21 months.

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Zilard mission.

No good nor bad, typical expantion. Using same model mobs on most areas. Lack of progression and improvement were part of the dislikes in the FFXI comunity. But what worse were those countless nerfs Square made post the launch of Zilart expantion, the inflation in economy (limited stock items), untuned areas. And many have quitted when they saw the horrendous exp table that you needed to get in order to advance, the level difference, the accuracy problems...
Promathia seemed not much of an improvement to the game. However, from the storyline that gives the expantion, it could be said that the expantion itself was descent. Several improvement on spells, tradeskills, NM and weapon skills and so on can clearly see that it is trying to focus on what FFXI is built. (and further more explains what NA release has in its disks and so on)
New areas added 35+ 4 expanded existing zones.

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This scares me. Let's hope they don't screw us out of different mobs.. i swear if theres 3 kinds of dodos in the expansion areas, i will not be ammused. The least they could do is bring back colibri, I like pink..

It only seemed like a short time because in NA we got sky barely 2 months after release. The game had 11 months of polish before we even saw it.

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GM giving information to an illegal user has been punished. It was to demonstrate how strict Square deal towards those who break the regulation. However, since everyone knew about how corrupted the Gms were they had more suspicious views towards the GM rather than respect.

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Interesting points Kilta. Very cool to see some of the differences from your point of view.

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your welcome. I played ffxu from ps2 launch day till last mnth (due to money) I first started just able to play 2 hrs a day then after my second year 12hrs+ (i hate tv and nothing in my town to do) minus a few mnths to 1/2 year off due to some system issues. I enjoyed the game both good and bad. I wish I had a better time for end game as I did like sky and dynamis. Just ppl attitudes made me go meh... see imo the japanese are a very strict culture. Their school year is like 200+ days. 99% of the time their in uniforms. Work same thing. So when they get on a game they want it to be fun. Where most na see it differently. They spend monwy on it, and don't want that money wasted. They see death as a waste of time and money. I personally don't like that mindset. It makes the game work. And work isn't fun.

I say no one has a right to tell you how to play. I personally hated getting told how to play rdm. With the excuse of... you need to do stuff for end game. I was very good at rdm in the sence of I knew my timing an was quick with dispel. If i needed to rest I rested. If I needed to convert I converted. I played rdm best when I meleed. As thats how I had fun with it.
I mostly played mnk with mnk/thf cuz I like doing crit dmg since i was mithran. but ppl again told me off about it saying go "/war go /war. then go /nin go /nin. You don't play mnk properly if you not stealing hate from the tank" << this is the only thing I hated in ffxi. I just hope in ffxiv Ima be able to play my own style, and that as long as i'm a team player that should matter.

kinda funny the lvl 80 showed up on gear. Also That i forgot that cop came out before WoW. Thats funny.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I say no one has a right to tell you how to play. I personally hated getting told how to play rdm. With the excuse of... you need to do stuff for end game. I was very good at rdm in the sence of I knew my timing an was quick with dispel. If i needed to rest I rested. If I needed to convert I converted. I played rdm best when I meleed. As thats how I had fun with it.
I mostly played mnk with mnk/thf cuz I like doing crit dmg since i was mithran. but ppl again told me off about it saying go "/war go /war. then go /nin go /nin. You don't play mnk properly if you not stealing hate from the tank" << this is the only thing I hated in ffxi. I just hope in ffxiv Ima be able to play my own style, and that as long as i'm a team player that should matter.

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The thing about this is there will always be the current "ideal" playstyle or setup for every class. Personally I have fun with these ideal playstyles because I know I am performing as best as I possibly can, but we will see what happens when the class system is reformed.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

The thing about this is there will always be the current "ideal" playstyle or setup for every class. Personally I have fun with these ideal playstyles because I know I am performing as best as I possibly can, but we will see what happens when the class system is reformed.

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sometimes being "the best" isn't what is best for the team/party. Like i find it against the party to purposely take hate from tank then get bad about dieing. I found the end all be all is flawed. The best should only be what the player feels is best for them. As not everyone can or will be the same. Nor should be forced to be the same. Like being forced to lvl nin, even though tanking is not something your good at. Players will not be good at everything, nor should be forced to.
But i digress

i loved the gimp pld thing XD i met alot of pld who wrere like that. like some plds I ran into just b4 i had to quit last mnth. They wait for ages to cast cure and they end up 1/2 dead. and use up to much mp.

Who cares about end-game at this point?!

Even the basic missions that were in the beginning of XI offer a variety of ways to complete them the storyline is better written and every mission is better than XIV ones. Not to mention there are a LOT more of them to boot.

So far I've seen nothing like the rank 3 dragon fight in XI gameplay-wise.

Most of the starter missions are better too. In XIV most of the starter missions can be done with little to none player interaction and yet they have rank-locks that XI didn't have.

I had to grind for a month to reach a mission where I basically just had to watch an admittedly stunning cutscene (yeah one of the few in XIV since quests are leves) with no gameplay whatsoever! Next mission had a fight going on but I didn't need to participate in it to "win" it. The storyline makes absolutely no sense and it's written like a fantasy 101 amateur would do it.

Quests don't have any story to them nor cutscenes

I came across this years ago and had actually forgotten about it.

It's an awesome read after experiencing the launch of XIV. It's astounding how similar both launches have been.

It does indeed make me feel more confident in XIV's future.

seif why are you here? those are not getting changed any time soon. plus what ffxi mission are you refering to? as i recall getting an axe from an orc had really no story to it. Or hunt down a crack mana orb, or runing throught a mine for a report. Same for quest in ffxi. Like hunting bat wing, or yagado neckleses. How much story did those have.

It just makes me feel good to read. In my opinion, once they come up with a new class/battle system, which we know is going to happen, there will be plenty of potential for this game... Based on that read, the bar for potential is pretty low! :D

http://jpbutton.com/ has an update history of XI

these older posts like this also makes you wonder how much better this game would have been at this same point in time it they let the jp members only have the game in advance like they did xi. i believe alot of the issues they have so far is differing opinions between the 2 bases which has the dev's confused on which way to go. if they had only let the jp players have it to get the game to a reasonable state there first, since they are the less abusive base, then they could easily tweak the na release without as many holdups.

Really really enjoying reading this. :D Thank you~
Gives me lots more hope for FFXIV.

Great read; nice points that bring reality back to some...

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Originally Posted by Seif

So far I've seen nothing like the rank 3 dragon fight in XI gameplay-wise.

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I gotta agree with you here, preparing and finding a crew of noobs like me to take on the Rank 3 Dragon was exhilarating! The cheers we yelled when we toppled that mob.... ah memories! Memories like this keep me around XIV, I have no doubt there will be moments like this in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Even the basic missions that were in the beginning of XI offer a variety of ways to complete them the storyline is better written and every mission is better than XIV ones.

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I actually like the main storyline of FFXIV alot better than I did the main storyline of FFXI. I'm rank 10 in Bastok and Windurst by the way.

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Originally Posted by Seif

So far I've seen nothing like the rank 3 dragon fight in XI gameplay-wise.

Most of the starter missions are better too. In XIV most of the starter missions can be done with little to none player interaction and yet they have rank-locks that XI didn't have.

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I see where you're coming from Seif but there's something you should probably consider as far as that goes.

In FFXI, crafting and harvesting jobs were Not playable classes.

In FFXIV, crafting and harvesting jobs Are playable classes. People that prefer to just rank up crafting or harvesting would like to advance in the storyline too. And I feel FFXIV made the main story missions more solo friendly because of this.

(on ffxi at least)
Truth = The players with the most people on their blacklist were the most disliked individuals on the servers.

If you think is not true because you had many players on your blacklist. Denial, nobody liked you.

"I said with all due respect"


Edit: didn't want to use the word "people" 4 times.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I say no one has a right to tell you how to play. I personally hated getting told how to play rdm. With the excuse of... you need to do stuff for end game. I was very good at rdm in the sence of I knew my timing an was quick with dispel. If i needed to rest I rested. If I needed to convert I converted. I played rdm best when I meleed. As thats how I had fun with it.
I mostly played mnk with mnk/thf cuz I like doing crit dmg since i was mithran. but ppl again told me off about it saying go "/war go /war. then go /nin go /nin. You don't play mnk properly if you not stealing hate from the tank" << this is the only thing I hated in ffxi. I just hope in ffxiv Ima be able to play my own style, and that as long as i'm a team player that should matter.

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I have to agree with you on this one. I've run into this SO many times. I play the game to have fun. I play my way. If people don't like me they can GTFO. XD The only thing I disliked about XI was the players telling me how to spend my time.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

not everyone can or will be the same. Nor should be forced to be the same.

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^.^b

WOW!

That was a long reading!

Obviously FFXI was worst then FFXIV when it came out.
But thats no excuse.
SE had no MMO experience back then, after 10 years of experience and new technologie offer to them.
FFXIV shouldn't have to go to all the hell FFXI went through before becoming one of the best MMO I ever played.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

They're not afraid to use their blacklist, I see....

Does anyone actually put people into their blacklist? I haven't found anyone who is really aggravating enough to scrawl their name into the list....

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In ALL of the MMOS I have played I only met ONE person annoying enough to be on my blacklist. The guy made it his job to joke on my disability and skin color in /say or linkshell every 2 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

I see where you're coming from Seif but there's something you should probably consider as far as that goes.

In FFXI, crafting and harvesting jobs were Not playable classes.

In FFXIV, crafting and harvesting jobs Are playable classes. People that prefer to just rank up crafting or harvesting would like to advance in the storyline too. And I feel FFXIV made the main story missions more solo friendly because of this.

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"Solo friendly" is a serious understatement, the missions can be completed while afk making a drink or watching tv. It barely (if even at all) requires player interaction which is one of the biggest turn offs for me.

XIV could have like 40 square feet of playable space and have a sick set of missions and fights and I'd be happy, alas my heart has been broken. ; ;

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

(on ffxi at least)
Truth = The players with the most people on their blacklist were the most disliked individuals on the servers.

If you think is not true because you had many players on your blacklist. Denial, nobody liked you.

"I said with all due respect"


Edit: didn't want to use the word "people" 4 times.

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not true. I had my blacklist filled by 1 person.... he was stalking me.

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Originally Posted by Armageddon

WOW!

That was a long reading!

Obviously FFXI was worst then FFXIV when it came out.
But thats no excuse.
SE had no MMO experience back then, after 10 years of experience and new technologie offer to them.
FFXIV shouldn't have to go to all the hell FFXI went through before becoming one of the best MMO I ever played.

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umm ffxi was out only 3-4 years when they started ffxi. so in reality they only had 3 year experiance. And it was a defferent dev team all together. And chances are didn't keep tabs on each other. if they started developing ffxiv now then it would be 9 years experience.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

umm ffxi was out only 3-4 years when they started ffxi. so in reality they only had 3 year experiance. And it was a defferent dev team all together. And chances are didn't keep tabs on each other. if they started developing ffxiv now then it would be 9 years experience.

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Actually Tanaka was the lead in both games at the start. And if I remember correctly in interviews before release they stated alot of team was the same which is why so many land mark designs are similar in design and concept to FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Actually Tanaka was the lead in both games at the start. And if I remember correctly in interviews before release they stated alot of team was the same which is why so many land mark designs are similar in design and concept to FFXI.

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ahh ok. my bad but still they didn't have 10 years of mmo experience when making ffxiv. if they started making it now then that would be true.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

seif why are you here? those are not getting changed any time soon. plus what ffxi mission are you refering to? as i recall getting an axe from an orc had really no story to it. Or hunt down a crack mana orb, or runing throught a mine for a report. Same for quest in ffxi. Like hunting bat wing, or yagado neckleses. How much story did those have.

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every quest from 11 was pretty much the same as ive been stating all along
cookie cutter quests for the most part

gather X item from X mob, kill X mobs, etc etc

just like EVERY OTHER GAME OUT THERE.

the only different ones really are the quests that were story based(like the dragon one) which are story quests and are on par with the story quests we have here for the most part.

All of FFXI's quest where mainly Blah with a few gems all the way until WotG, at that expansion they got their own story line, CS, and boss battles. Basically a 2ndary story line that followed the main line.

The evolution of FFXI:

Mission sucked ballz in vanilla FFXI take FFXIV's missions and take out almost all the CS's and add pointless quest and you have the original missions of FFXI. Remember Shadowlord in the missions was endgame, you even got end credits when you beat it.

Zilart I thought the story line was decent quest where the same as the original style, the main thing with this expansion is it added all of endgame.

CoP which I would argue are probably the best and some of the if not the hardest missions in any mmo to date. Truly epic storyline fit to be in a FF game.

Toau's mission and quest for the most part where on the weaker side, a few CSs but nothing really flashy until the upper missions.

WotG Missions I thought where extremely well done, was like a game of chess with your version of existence at stake.. and you are losing big times throughout the whole story line... never did finish it to see how it ended though. Quest as I mentioned where the best done quest in FFXI.

The abysea just sucked ballz again, the add on expansions where pretty good story wise just not as epic as the main expansions.