[Petition] Have Naoki Yoshida Play Healer and take off the DPS Gloves for a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

On boss fights its often possible to do damage as an healer, as well with single pulls. The 3 damage spells are good enough for this, when i would like to do more damage i would play a dd job.

---

yeah...no, they're nowhere near enough for how little healing is required and how much dps we are able to do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

This might be ok for you, i do have a different play style. I like to go normal dungeons for fun, no need engaging play for me. Maybe Yoshi-P does have right with go play ultimate for more engaging play style.

---

Refer back to:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

So, basically, this idea of "playing a healer just to heal" is not supported in FFXIV because of the design of the battle system. Not unless you're looking to just stand there and do very little, at least. And if you do, then, well, more power to you, but you can keep doing that while the rest of us enjoy actual gameplay (should they ever update healers to have something more to do).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Refer back to:

---

I've got mixed thoughts on all these healer topics.

On one hand yeah I can see healer mains getting bored unless doing end game content. However with the amount of times I see healer mains also say they only party with FC mates or statics because random ppl through DF is too much work I sometimes think many of them are causing their own boredom. When party members only take damage from unavoidable attacks you generally end up needing to heal very little outside of the tank. Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

I wish they would make doing actual healing more engaging than just responding to mechanics with my pick of whatever flavor of party-wide aoe heal I feel like at the time. I wish I could be a good healer for my healing, not my dps. But I have put these foolish ambitions to rest and have made peace with the fact that it will never be like that for a number of valid reasons. I feel like having more dps buttons would be a poor consolation for me.

But one good thing about how healers are now that I've come to really appreciate is that it is by far the easiest role to do mechanics callouts for for my group since I have no rotation to keep track of. And also good for new dungeons and raids that I want to take in the visuals of the boss and the scenery rather than just seeing them in my periphery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

---

Or maybe they should just git gud :p

Jokes aside, I don't think we can fully use df healer as standard. Some of them might be new healer who's still learning, some may level healers only because they're leveling all jobs. Or perhaps they're just getting bored with their main role and decided to play healer once in a while.

I don't think serious healer mains should be "punished" because of those df healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

A Hrothgar healer for a full year.
I'd be ok with that.

---

Lol, going from Lala BLM to Hrothgar Healer.
Couldn't be more opposite xD...

And I thought going from Au'ra to Viera was a shock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've got mixed thoughts on all these healer topics.

On one hand yeah I can see healer mains getting bored unless doing end game content. However with the amount of times I see healer mains also say they only party with FC mates or statics because random ppl through DF is too much work I sometimes think many of them are causing their own boredom. When party members only take damage from unavoidable attacks you generally end up needing to heal very little outside of the tank. Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

---

If the only way to have fun on your job is to not play with your friends you have an issue.

That's not the issue though, the issue is that in a vacuum you're strictly a dps with 2 buttons.

Pugs are at the extreme of both ends, they can be just as good if not better than your friends.

The reason you see healers struggle in dungeons is because they've never been tested before, at all, at any time ever, except inside certain dungeons, under certain conditions.
The base game does not train you to be a good healer in any capacity: Here's how you deal damage, here's your heals go wild.

Of the 3 roles you're more likely to see a free style healer than anything and nobody says anything because it doesn't matter unless they're failing a dps check or they're failing to keep the tank alive because they still don't understand that spamming physick in-between adlo when you have 9k mana and lucid still up is not more healing potency than just spamming adlo until you run out of mana.

The efficiency of healing is up to the player, every healer can clear most if not all content with simply their AoE GCD heal and single target heal along with some mitigation.

So yeah you're seeing baby healers having issues doing dungeon pulls because nobody teaches them and them game pretends this is a single player game, that doesn't mean you should be basing the entire games state of balance off someone who struggles to press 3 buttons.

TL;DR

Don't base healer balance off people who spam cure and physick at full mana and are surprised when people die.

Yes yes yes!!!!!
Yoshi P as healer Hrothgar!
If the test person was too good, it's a nice time for him to take the healer gloves and glare/broil/malefic/dosis away!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Quick reminder that his answer during the live letter was way more involved than just "Go play Ultimate" and that a solid argument isn't based on a three word reduction of a much lengthier response.

Carry on.

---

He said that damage is low because it is the first tier.

Ok, a few questions now:

- Making the first tier easier makes sense, and letting more people clear is good for the endgame playerbase, normally. If there is low damage, tanks use less mitigation but they still have things to do (= a DPS rotation). DPS gameplay doesn't really change. Healers spam a single key. Why can't healers get stuff to do during downtime? Are healers second class customers?

- Saying that the first tier is easier implies that the other tiers are harder. Why did E8S have an infamously low healing requirement, then?

- Even if we assume that healing requirements go up in the second and third tiers, why do healers only get to have fun so sparingly? Are healers not supposed to have as much fun as tank and DPS players?

Please, tell me: what's solid about his argument? And yes, his answer can be summarised with "Go play ultimate". It's a short sentence, but it perfectly encapsulates the dismissive nature of his reply.

I am bored to tears in extremes and normal content as a Sage.

'Go play Ultimate' is not a good argument. Me being bored in the majority of the game isn't going to make me think; "I should do Savage and Ultimate!" It's going to make me stop playing healers and play tanks and DPS instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

I like to play as an healer and when i would like to do damage then i play a dd job. Pretty easy with all that jobs on one toon possible, no need for button bloat on the healer job.

---

Y'know what? I love to heal, too. That's why I picked healer as my main.
But as it stands now I have 218469234 healing buttons to use but only 1-3 instances of damage to heal, and you don't think those healing buttons are the major cause of healers' button bloat? We can just trim that down to add in more dps buttons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

[..]The 3 damage spells are good enough for this, when i would like to do more damage i would play a dd job.

---

Nobody speaks of wanting to do more damage. We want more than just 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 ad nauseam. More buttons does not equal more damage, otherwise by going with that logic BLM should have lower damage because they have lesser damage buttons than, say, a Ninja.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loonies

This might be ok for you, i do have a different play style. I like to go normal dungeons for fun, no need engaging play for me. Maybe Yoshi-P does have right with go play ultimate for more engaging play style.

---

Exactly. Adding 2-3 more dps button doesn't mean your playstyle is changed. Veteran healers can play around with their new buttons. Sylphies can keep spamming Cure II/Cure III/Medica II, overheal Plenary Rapture, unnecessary use of Asylum or Lilybell, saving Assize for heal, because Sylphies do not care about damage: nothing can make them care unless it's a 'necessary devil'.

In all seriousness, I wanted to ask the same question:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QooEr

do you know what "engaging" means?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've got mixed thoughts on all these healer topics.

On one hand yeah I can see healer mains getting bored unless doing end game content. However with the amount of times I see healer mains also say they only party with FC mates or statics because random ppl through DF is too much work I sometimes think many of them are causing their own boredom. When party members only take damage from unavoidable attacks you generally end up needing to heal very little outside of the tank. Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

---

We are bored even when we do endgame content. Except for *some* fights and only during week 1.

The problem is in the core design of the role.

I see plenty of tanks in DF that don't use mitigation and can't swap. Obviously this means that we need to get rid of tankbusters, auto attacks and tank swaps in endgame content.

Where is the logic in that?

Anyone member Aero 3?
I member.

I wonder how you'd juggle AST tho with the other Healers, you'd have cards + healing + more involved dps rotation?
For WHM tho I think it'd be cool to see something offensive to spend Lilies on, Afflatus Misery is cool and all I guess but so rarely used.
They could add something akin to Energy Drain but with Lilies ( with mana restore too? ).

Here we go again.

Look, for those of you misinformed of what healers are asking:

Healers have asked for higher healing requirements and outgoing damage in EX and above content (there is not that many).
The devs said "no think of new healers".

Healers have asked for more things to do in their down time whether that be more damage buttons or better support buttons.
The devs have yet to deliver on that front.

THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN HEAL. THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH OUTGOING DAMAGE.
We want an engaging class with a higher SKILL CEILING.

Healing kits DO NOT MATCH content design from dungeons to Extremes to Savage to ULTIMATE. We have too many healing tools. Period.

So yes, YoshiP should play healer for a year. Get good at it push it through Ex, Savage and Ultimate like he does BLM and tell me the role is fine. He'll find it is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Anyone member Aero 3?
I member.

I wonder how you'd juggle AST tho with the other Healers, you'd have cards + healing + more involved dps rotation?

---

Fix our cards like we've been asking since S H A D O W B R I N G E R S and add a DoT. Done.

Have him tank too while we're at it :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

A Hrothgar healer for a full year.
I'd be ok with that.

---

I'am sold :D

A both a hroth and AST main I'm not sure how to feel about this. <.<' *cough*

As much as i love healer and i always play other mmorpg as healer main, this game encourage me to do dps and its fun being dps especially black mage, as healer main, the healing in this game is at mediocre lvl, but the main problem as to why they will always encourage easier healing for the game is for the simple fact there are more dps main people out there, heck in some mmorpg like World of W, i spent less than 10 min finding 18 fully geared dps with all achievement and need more than 30 min to find even barely minimum geared 4 healer and 2 tank with some achievement, that is the truth, less and less people will be tank or healer if they have the option to be dps instead, and i know most tank in this game have an easier life tanking because the boss will adjust their position, in wow, tank have to think for everything, very easy to blame tank for bad positioning and that tank will give up playing tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've got mixed thoughts on all these healer topics.

On one hand yeah I can see healer mains getting bored unless doing end game content. However with the amount of times I see healer mains also say they only party with FC mates or statics because random ppl through DF is too much work I sometimes think many of them are causing their own boredom. When party members only take damage from unavoidable attacks you generally end up needing to heal very little outside of the tank. Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

---

I don't play Savage or beyond. I don't have a static. I love playing with randos. There was always a sweet spot for me between levels 66 and 80 where I didn't usually mind healing, but there's only two roulettes where those would ever show up with any sort of regularity. I would happily heal through even the most confused and frantic wipes and it felt good to be pushed to my limit. I actively like having a variety of spells to mitigate problems and a variety of things that give me a challenge in normally easy situations. Under 70 my skills are so limited I don't have options that are remotely interesting. 81-89 doesn't come up much, and by 85 and up tanks don't need healing because they know the fights and they have fifty different ways to do my job for me so I have one nuke and one dot.

At 90 you build up tokens and gear and are encouraged to do level 90 stuff. That means you'll be in expert and up which means even more the moment everyone gets the dungeon down, the tank can and will heal themselves and, in some cases everyone else through every boss. What I heal is a formality. The rest of the time its nuke dot nuke nuke nuke dot. And I have to do this so I can get better gear and hope it's necessary someday. But all it really does is make me overheal more.

Maybe you keep running into healers who can't keep parties up because they're only running healer for the in need bonus because nobody who heals decently wants to do it. Between the lack of engagement and this kind of condescending attitude I don't see why anyone would.

He gotta be a healer hrothgar until healers get reworked and hrothgar/viera be able to wear all the headgears in game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've got mixed thoughts on all these healer topics.

On one hand yeah I can see healer mains getting bored unless doing end game content. However with the amount of times I see healer mains also say they only party with FC mates or statics because random ppl through DF is too much work I sometimes think many of them are causing their own boredom. When party members only take damage from unavoidable attacks you generally end up needing to heal very little outside of the tank. Non EX/Savage/Ultimate content is easy in most cases however I still frequently see healers that can't even handle pulling 2 groups of trash in a 4 man duty and healers in non ex/savage/ultimate 8 player duties or 24 player duties that go in with the mentality that they are just a DPS with a green icon.

---

This is one of the instances where it's important to balance BOTH ends of the gameplay. You need to drive the engagement early on so as to have them enjoy staying as that job, and only healing =/= engagement. It eventually becomes a chore at Lv 70 onwards when you have more varied kits. I can attest to this since I was leveling my alt as a WHM, and BOY. Doing some of the Lv 50 dungeons feels like I'm being drained for no reason and my MP has a tendency to get so low I almost run OoM on large pulls because of it. Outside of that quality of life for WHM's MP early on, they only turn into Green DPS as Tanks get more tools to mitigate progressively, up to the point in Lv 90 where they honestly don't care because they can full-clear a dungeon with 3 DPS and 1 WAR/PLD, including the new dungeon.

Quote:

---

Have Naoki Yoshida Play Healer and take off the DPS Gloves for a year.

---

What makes you think he doesnt already? Yoshi plays all the content himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

What makes you think he doesnt already? Yoshi plays all the content himself.

---

As a BLM. Do you think he has healed before in a raid or dungeon setting? We don't know because we've all known him as a DPS. Wonder why Healers haven't gotten revamped to not be 1 DoT 1 Nuke? Probably because the job hasn't been properly looked at like BLM has the past 6 years. They're afraid of job complexity since Heavensward, when Healers were at their finest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

What makes you think he doesnt already? Yoshi plays all the content himself.

---

Oh definitely. He probably swap to healer once in a while, just like those FCmates/Friends we all have when they're helping dailies---those who only swap to healer when it is needed... but that's not what people here asking for. Folks wants Yoshi to play healer and stop touching DPS for a year, essentially maining it.

There's a difference between maining and playing a job once in while. (i.e. "I guess I can heal for this roulette.")

White mage really needs some improvement....

Yes absolutely, and in no way shape or form should he let the players know who he his while doing it.

Well, if we as players are expected to have no issues with healer gameplay being 1-2-1-1-1, surely Yoshida won't have an issue with it as well. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Play Ultimate and suffer, Yoshi-P!

I raise the stakes even HIGHER.
He can ONLY wear head gear on the Hrothgar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I raise the stakes even HIGHER.
He can ONLY wear head gear on the Hrothgar.

---

Now that's just cruel.

+1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiaDeem

He said they did what they've done all xpacs: First tier of SVG and other content is intentionally easier. Difficulty of stuff will ramp up throughout the xpac. I guess compare Titan to Shiva in Eden?

I enjoy healing right now, but if people have an issue with it I believe all voices should be heard. I just think poorly paraphrasing his answer creates misinformation and muddles the conversation.
That's just what I think though.

---

Logs from earlier savage tiers, even the final tiers of an expansion, show that healers spend more than 80% of their time casting glare/broil/malefic, so no getting later into the savage tier isn't going to magically make the job more engaging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

Logs from earlier savage tiers, even the final tiers of an expansion, show that healers spend more than 80% of their time casting glare/broil/malefic, so no getting later into the savage tier isn't going to magically make the job more engaging.

---

there's also less "screw-up healing" to keep you engaged in higher end content as well, because as you go up in difficulty, screw-ups just kill you (and force the group to wall it) or wipe the group entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

Logs from earlier savage tiers, even the final tiers of an expansion, show that healers spend more than 80% of their time casting glare/broil/malefic, so no getting later into the savage tier isn't going to magically make the job more engaging.

---

80% straight up applies to ultimate too, it's crazy.

I'm surprised that this petition got this much traction. I'm a bit curious about something: what can we do to send a better message other than the Forums? While I know the community management team watches and reads the forums, I'm sure there are better methods to be able to create a seat at the table for us instead of it being an in-house job when it comes to balancing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

I'm surprised that this petition got this much traction. I'm a bit curious about something: what can we do to send a better message other than the Forums? While I know the community management team watches and reads the forums, I'm sure there are better methods to be able to create a seat at the table for us instead of it being an in-house job when it comes to balancing.

---

TBH I'd say this forum is likely the best as non SE outlets will probably go completely under radar. The issue with the forums though is the tendency for any valid criticism or input for the game to get lost due to the behavior of many on the forum.

Quote:

---

Do you think he has healed before in a raid or dungeon setting?

---

Yes. Definitely. It would not surprise me to learn he does main a healer on a character no one knows.

Please give me old AST back, I beg of you.

I hate how WoW had/has ridiculous healers in both PvP and PvE that carry entire parties through tons of damage. I far prefer the way the game plays currently, healers being bored is a small price to pay in my opinion. If they do anything I hope its just reworking rotations and ocds, while keeping general balance the same.

force him and everyone else that plays the game at square to play 6.08 and 6.1 SAM for at least 3 months as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by __pigzig

I hate how WoW had/has ridiculous healers in both PvP and PvE that carry entire parties through tons of damage. I far prefer the way the game plays currently, healers being bored is a small price to pay in my opinion. If they do anything I hope its just reworking rotations and ocds, while keeping general balance the same.

---

But but they still can do this right now. Have you seen Warrior? Warrior best healer in FF14.