except that isn't true either, as i pointed out, Modders ALREADY added all 8 hairstyles across all 4 faces and proved that it can be done without a "full redesign of the hrothgar models".Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadturk
So i'll say again: Spare me your white knight rhetoric and quit defending their inexcusable behavior.
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04-19-2022, 08:38 PMJason_Ashford
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04-20-2022, 09:53 AMKelevYou posted a bunch of Japanese that translates to “ After all, there are many voices saying that it's not good to have ears ... Yeah ... I'm a little worried here, now”Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
That’s not “We messed up.”
That’s not “I’m sorry.”
That’s not “We’re gonna fix it for you in X timeframe.”
That’s not good customer service.
That’s not empathetic.
When you say “Stop attacking me,” please understand “you’re going to have to cite your source, here” isn’t an attack.
It’s a request you show me where you got the information you did. If that sounds like an attack to you, Wikipedia must give you night-terrors.
The OP’s comment which is that “Housing gets greater visibility than Hrothgar anything is inherently defensible, which the OP does.
In addition, while “Some of your best friends are Hrothgar” I, personally, would like to just like to hear something less in line with “I’m torn” or “I need feedback.” The community has given plenty of feedback. 1,447 replies on the Hrothgar Haircut thread, 997 on the complaint megathread alone.
So, when you say “he said he messed up,” you’re going to have to point out where, exactly, that happened, because telling people you’re being attacked when you’re not just isn’t helpful. -
04-20-2022, 09:59 AMEnigmaticDodo
I get your frustration, but I'll just be a parrot.jpg.
For my take to the devs on the Hroth situation and hats is to just wait until its done before release. That's all. -
04-20-2022, 10:06 AMKelev
Also, the statement “We have other voices saying it’s not good to have ears” is not only not “We messed up,” it’s a defense - kind of the opposite of an apology.
So it’s one thing to shoot the messenger for the message.
It’s another thing when we ask you to cite your source and you’ve not just misquoted the message, you’ve said the exact opposite, and then edited the post I quoted for some reason or another.
So if asking you to back your message up qualifies as an attack and/or loses you as an ally, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Lemme know if you need a translation of that.
-Kelly -
04-20-2022, 10:13 AMDenji
The Hrothgar threads have begun to outnumber the ones related to housing.
Whether anyone thinks it ought to be prioritized or even resolved doesn't negate the fact that a large chunk of the community wants something to be done about this and - for the sake of the forums and other discussion related to the game - I think I ought to be prioritized once the housing issue is sorted. Lest the forums continue to be flooded with topics related to it. If not to appease the hrothgar then to simply get it and the threads out of people's (and square's) hair. -
04-20-2022, 10:37 AMJojoyaThe problem you're running into is not everyone wants the same thing. Players have also been asking to have the hairstyles earned as in game rewards added. They feel like they're getting cheated out of rewards when other players can use them but they can't due to race choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford
Since those styles were already in game, it made sense to focus on those first since less work would be involved so they could get those released faster.
So as Shibi says - Hrothgar players need to give feedback on what types of hairstyles are most important to them, unique racial or adaptation of existing human style, so SE will know what to focus on next. And they need to accept they will be disappointed if the majority voice among Hrothgar players pushes for other than what they personally want. -
04-20-2022, 10:39 AMreivaxeThis is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford
Can you TECHNICALLY separate the hair model from the head model? Yes, they are separate models after all. What YP has said, a number of times, is that he (For W/E reason) had the devs make Hrothgar without the concept of swapping hairstyles in mind.
What does this mean and what good came outta it? It means that the 4 Hrothgar heads look hella different because they didn't have to worry about making them uniform so that they can share hair. It also means that each head's hair is made to look good on only THAT head and it's features. We got a taste of this when they screwed up the press image for Hrothgar before correcting it.
People were ragging on the race because of the Face 3 Lost with the Face 1 hair looking so lazy. Notice the hair clipping through the ear. Notice the poor clipping of the hairline. Notice how the brow spikes are clipping. Notice how if this Face 3 had the cheek fur face feature on that ... yeah, it would clip horribly with the Face 1 lion mane's temple hair extensions seen in that pic. They WOULD have to change each hairstyle to work on each head if they wanted them to look good, because the 4 Hrothgar heads have 4 different size-n-shaped ears AND foreheads and completely different face features. This is what it means to make them this way, without worrying about them changing hair and mixing them up.
This is not a problem for other races (and hopefully Hrothgals) because they all have the same head shape with different faces instead of completely different heads. Now, knowing this, they can likely design around that for new hair down the road. But that might be 2-3 years waiting for them to release 1 hair that ultimately hides the hairline or w/e to avoid having to make 4 different versions of 1 hairstyle. -
04-20-2022, 11:23 AMListrella
well the housing situation is a bug which can be fized quickly once it's worked out, the hrothgar situation will require new hair designs which will take time, it's not something that can be done instantly.
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04-20-2022, 11:30 AMEscenceWould not call the the house issue fix more another band aid to a ever growing problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford
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04-20-2022, 11:58 AMRaimAnd what about the modding community that implemented ears onto the new hair(s) in a single day? Or the dozen+ hairs from other races they added to Hrothgar already? Not that I condone such things, but one has to question why its easy for them but nigh impossible for the XIV staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Listrella
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04-20-2022, 12:03 PMMidareyukkiSo too did they say Viera weren't coming, that they didn't want to make ANY head gear for us, and that Male Viera wouldn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by reivaxe
And lo and behold. Fans asked for it, they saw it and acquiesced. Including the headgear, which people worked behind Yoshida's back so that we wouldn't feel too terrible over them.
That's not really an argument. We can't just quote them on that one thing, because we should also quote them on the times they gave us stuff because we asked. -
04-20-2022, 01:43 PMDoraganQuote:
Originally Posted by Raim
It probably has to do with the workflow and that it has to be approved by multiple people at different stage of development. A modder can lift premade assets, they don't need to limit themselves on polygon count, shading, if it needs to fit with the lore (which probably doesn't happen too often), if it doesn't infrige on another product from a different company (even if it it looks even remotely similar, it might cause issues -> it gets the axe), and they don't need to ask someone to do some preliminary sketches in different colors,on different humans to see how it would look like. Then when everything is done, QC and QA's feedback and requests comes around (that probably nobody listen to because everyone is pressed for time). However, they should need to implement atleast a few fixes. If you remember pre-release hrothgar hair clipping, that's probably what caused all the wait -- as in, that could've pushed them to try and release a proper, done product rather than half-baked. Tuns out it was still half-baked,so I think we can all agree they failed on that.. ;)
Atleast, that would be to add new hairstyles. However, if it's the same team that deal with the new hairstyles that have to implement the older ones on new models.. If they have to do both at the same time, I can see how, and why it took that long.
Plus.. they aren't necessarily well paid. Most small/mid modders do that for free, on their own time. Bigger modders got patreons and way to gate their mods behind paywalls, but they're also at constant risk of legal threat for selling things that they don't (necessarily) own.
That being said, none of this should've been a problem in the first place. The team in charge of it should've been allocated more people to help with the workload since the very beginning, considering how challenging it has been. It was forseen by someone working there somewhere, and they should've been listened to. It doesn't make the situation acceptable one bit, and they should 100% get to work on it posthaste. I do get it though, from an human point of view. Game dev isn't that easy, especially for a corporation that does not care about you as a worker and a human being one bit, but cares about your skills as an asset for them to use. You kinda don't have to deal with that, and deadlines as a modder, I guess. That's a reasonable obstacle to me.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the other race-locked hairstyles are definitely coded and set in-game. Maybe they want to keep exclusive hairstyles to faces? I'm not sure why NPCs do not respect this rule though, if they don't.. why would the player have this restriction on them? It's very strange. I hope they will change their minds.
tl;dr = A lot more people are involved in the process. Mod creators just bypass these restrictions entirely, and they have a lot more (creative?) freedom. They can also lift assets of other games or the internet, have no proper limit to what they can add to the game, which skip all the barriers that the game devs have to go through within the company.