Initial changes you'd like to see in PvP?

I think the reward system is a little weird. There's nothing wrong with the season exp rank ups but I think that there's basically nothing to do with wolf marks at this point, and they seemed to have taken down the late allagan armor so there's even less to buy now than there was before the changes. They probably should have an armor coffer at rank 15 that is like a lesser version of the rank 25 armor? Maybe a less armored version or something.

An option to arrange a draw would be nice. For instance when players leave or have an disconnect.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I think the reward system is a little weird. There's nothing wrong with the season exp rank ups but I think that there's basically nothing to do with wolf marks at this point, and they seemed to have taken down the late allagan armor so there's even less to buy now than there was before the changes. They probably should have an armor coffer at rank 15 that is like a lesser version of the rank 25 armor? Maybe a less armored version or something.

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Or just bring back feast rewards smh

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I think the reward system is a little weird. There's nothing wrong with the season exp rank ups but I think that there's basically nothing to do with wolf marks at this point, and they seemed to have taken down the late allagan armor so there's even less to buy now than there was before the changes. They probably should have an armor coffer at rank 15 that is like a lesser version of the rank 25 armor? Maybe a less armored version or something.

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Wait they did what?
...
what the hell why would they do that? And without warning us?

Edit: False alarm! The Late Allegan Gear is still available, it's just that the shop menu is long enough to have a scroll bar. Just gotta scroll down to get to it.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

Make the player screen load to base while waiting respawn to cut down the extra load time.

Don't respawn players after the game has ended and they are at the information screen.

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This, please respawn us straight away and put countdown while waiting at the base AFTER ko-ed.
Currently, becouse of my potato pc/network, i have to wait extra 1-3 seconds just for loading after the respawn timer finished.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

I don't know what a good solution to this is but I feel like res'ing takes way too long at some times. You die, you sit and wait. Then you load. Then you slooooowly rise up from the ground. Then you sprint and run all the way back. I feel this is part of why the matches can sometimes be sub 2 minutes, because if they time it a certain way after the initial push, by the time your party res's after the first load point they've already practically won.

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The time to res would be fine if everyone currently dead would res simultaneously every ten seconds. But with everyone having their own ten seconds delay to res, it means that if deaths are sufficiently staggered (and they often are), it can easily take up to 50 seconds for the entire team to res, and that's way too long. It makes it way too difficult to regroup and do an effective counter attack and most of the time some people have to run ahead first to try and stop the crystal because otherwise you would lose anyway.

Im good with the current design on things.

If anything, id like to see the freaking Broil, Glare and friends from Healers replaced by something more original, like a Skillcoil, hardcast nuke with 4sec cast time and so on.

Oh, and optional choices, like being able to select passive abilities that change the current skillkit in one way or another would be neat too (like being able to trade off a stuneffect for a weak slow + extra dmg).

So far I like PvP. I hope they don't balance it into the ground turning it into, well, PvE.
I'm fine with imbalances. Especially after ShB onward. haha

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

So far I like PvP. I hope they don't balance it into the ground turning it into, well, PvE.
I'm fine with imbalances. Especially after ShB onward. haha

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why will people be fine with unbalance? unless your job is the one overpowered...

As a BLM only, I want a fair PvP game for all jobs, its ok if is 5% up or down, but not the current iteration. BLM is so bad that as BLM, I am happy when the other team have BLM too... that is sad.

Battlegrounds: Capture the flag

Errr….not sure how to word this out but hate it when people are in packs, i miss that sense where you could disperse a group apart & occasionally engage on short skirmishes like 1v1 or 1v3 whilst in the battleground,

The only thing I truly miss from WoW which I wish they should incorporate in here while balancing it out.

PS: CCs cooldowns (so many spams) & CC breaks cooldowns (make the fight lasting & smart, not me smash stun stun)

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Originally Posted by SamiMoshantu

Wait they did what?
...
what the hell why would they do that? And without warning us?

Edit: False alarm! The Late Allegan Gear is still available, it's just that the shop menu is long enough to have a scroll bar. Just gotta scroll down to get to it.

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Yeah it's a false alarm! Apparently if you have ALL the armor already, the tab doesn't show up. I never realized that when I posted.

Actually, I think the one thing I'd like to see changed is how series exp gets rewarded. Overtime should get a bonus to compensate for the amount of extra time the teams are putting in trying to win since otherwise it encourages people in casual matches to just spam without regard for winning or losing. You can get a 1 minute loss or a 5-6 minute win with a difference of 200 points, which seems awfully lopsided.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Yeah it's a false alarm! Apparently if you have ALL the armor already, the tab doesn't show up. I never realized that when I posted.

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I doubt it's that. Are you carrying every single piece in your inventory?

More likely it's the scrolling menu, as someone suggested above, or the fact that it starts in the "DoW weapons" category by default and there are no Late Allagan weapons, only armour.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Yeah it's a false alarm! Apparently if you have ALL the armor already, the tab doesn't show up. I never realized that when I posted.

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I don't think that's the case, especially how SE usually tracks that stuff by either achievements (there are none for Late Allegan armor) or your inventory (you'd need to be carrying all 70 pieces).
I included some screenshots to clarify what I meant: (Edit: smaller images)

The Weapons menu (no scroll bar because there are no Late Allegan Weapons)
https://i.gyazo.com/8f2bd38c58bf34d5...e850edcc8c.png

The scroll bar:
https://i.gyazo.com/e729502cf30a0d79...fd6b731bb0.pnghttps://i.gyazo.com/111caa2a928ae525...2a35294921.png

I really dislike that the newer shop menu interface starts off set to a category and you have to move up to the upper bar to change it. Extra button presses in an awkward sequence for me, plus presenting me with the list of categories feels almost like a distraction. "Oh yes, I wanted to browse Direwolf gear! There's the menu option for it... no wait, back up, set to DoM gear, down, now I can set to Direwolf again..."

The old system with multiple vendors felt more straightforward, though I've never understood why they needed separate gear and weapon vendors when the older shop interface has tabs for them anyway.

I'd say that PvP does feel very unfair in terms of strategy. it's not really about tactical deployment of skills as much as just being a caveman and smacking someone down instantly if at all possible. Reminds me of combo winter in MTG where you'd step into a game and just don't get to play the game, which is happening a LOT in CC.

To give some context: Fair gameplay allows interplay from both parties despite which party takes the aggressive stance first. There is no absolute stun lock or some other mechanic that instantly kills the person, even if they run in alone. Obviously this is impossible in front lines, but something like CC should be totally viable.

Right now, that isn't happening and it favors an unfair form of play where certain groups completely lock out all forms of interactivity in the first 10 seconds of play. Afterwards it really goes into more like an entire minute of non-play as the group stun locks or just chain kills people all the way to the goal point. It happens on and off to people of all rank in play.

I love how they designed RPR for multiplayer, for example, but WAR and other jobs with hard stuns and polymorphs are really something that shouldn't have been introduced. Better to have bigger HP pools and just let people slug it out. The snares on the other hand are okay since for the most part you can still take actions while snared. Silence is also a problem.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

why will people be fine with unbalance? unless your job is the one overpowered...

As a BLM only, I want a fair PvP game for all jobs, its ok if is 5% up or down, but not the current iteration. BLM is so bad that as BLM, I am happy when the other team have BLM too... that is sad.

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BLM isnt bad by design. Compared to most Jobs, it has a really high Skill ceiling which requires you to put in not only more effort but also out-of-box thinking in order to be effective.


Also, PvP doesnt need to be balanced. If it is designed in a way where there is room where performance makes a differenxe, even a "undertuned" Class can outperform Meta Classes, and THAT is what Squeenix should strife for.

Most People who complain about balance just need an outlet to vent frustration, because lord forbid if i am to blame for my own demise in a defeat. It is understandable to be frustrated or even toxic in PvP because that is just natural.

Or as Gaius uses to say during MSQ Roulette on the Elevator scene : And what is more natural, that the strong should govern over the weak? (Well, at least thats what he says in the german version of the Game)

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Originally Posted by Anhra

BLM isnt bad by design. Compared to most Jobs, it has a really high Skill ceiling which requires you to put in not only more effort but also out-of-box thinking in order to be effective.


Also, PvP doesnt need to be balanced. If it is designed in a way where there is room where performance makes a differenxe, even a "undertuned" Class can outperform Meta Classes, and THAT is what Squeenix should strife for.

Most People who complain about balance just need an outlet to vent frustration, because lord forbid if i am to blame for my own demise in a defeat. It is understandable to be frustrated or even toxic in PvP because that is just natural.

Or as Gaius uses to say during MSQ Roulette on the Elevator scene : And what is more natural, that the strong should govern over the weak? (Well, at least thats what he says in the german version of the Game)

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All they have to do to balance this out in the short term is to make people immune to stun for at least 20 seconds if someone uses it, since it's a hard lock and basically stops the person from playing or having any way to interact with it. Long term they need to make stuns and other hard locks based on picking up or doing something in the arena.

Extreme burst damage is also just as much of a hard lock in many cases, but that's a lot harder to figure out how to balance out. I have seen games where you can have 3 v 1, know that you're going to lose as the single guy, but still make an actual difference in the outcome of the actual conflict that can help your team. Also they shouldn't be showing the enemy teams LB bars.

I actually dislike silence as a CC more. I can hear stuns, they have a sound associated with them, so do draw ins, Silence if it has a sound is so utterly subtle most the times im spamming recup not realizing it happened because the feedback both audio and char control wise is not there. ive been trying to work on putting debuffs somewhere and making them obnoxiously massive but the hud manipulation for that is a bit pain.

Before anything i’d fix bard. As it is right now it’s basically unplayable. The moment you use your main damage skill you’re stuck in a permanent walking mode that persist even after death. Don’t even know how that made it out of development if they had actually tested it but i guess that’s proof they don’t test anything.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Before anything i’d fix bard. As it is right now it’s basically unplayable. The moment you use your main damage skill you’re stuck in a permanent walking mode that persist even after death. Don’t even know how that made it out of development if they had actually tested it but i guess that’s proof they don’t test anything.

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This forum is aflame with bards talking about this bug but ive never noticed any of my teammates moving at the speed of RP. Is it like random chance to happen?

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

This forum is aflame with bards talking about this bug but ive never noticed any of my teammates moving at the speed of RP. Is it like random chance to happen?

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I’m fairly certain it’s almost guaranteed to happen as long as you’re using your main damage skill, since the bug itself is apparently tied to the cast time walk. Why it happens to bard and not mch when they both have the same exact type of skill i have no clue, all i know is it’s absolutely annoying and i’m surprised it hasn’t been fixed yet after a week.

If we're talking about initial changes...I've mostly played MCH and while I like playing it, there's some stuff I'd like to see changed.

Machinist changes:

- Bioblaster
The fact that it's the one short range skill in an otherwise long range tool rotation makes it clunky to use and forces mch players to go into melee range early on when they would and should avoid it due to lack of mitigation tools and a tendency to get dogpiled. Also, the situation it would be most useful in makes it hard to use due to its limited range.
Suggested change:

- Increase the range to 25y. Change the AoE effect to "Target and anyone nearby" (5y? 10y?)

- Chainsaw
I do chuckle if the Analysis effect triggers and KO's someone but that extra needs to go. It's frustrating for the target and you simply can't plan around it. I'd like to see it replaced by a moderate DoT effect. (4k over 12-15 seconds?)

Marksman's Spite:

While I love the LB and it is very satisfying to use given it essentially being a bit middle finger to the target, it pales in tactical impact compared to many other LBs. It's subjected to Guard and other mitigation and the cast time and marker allow for the targeted player to pop a quick heal which makes it harder to secure the kill than it should be for a single target LB (Especially compared with others)

There's a few ways to make it better without it being necessarily OP. Just a few varying suggestions, NOT with the intention to have them all implemented at once.

1) Adds three attacks to an active Wildfire effect, triggering it instantly. If attacks have been applied beforehand, the exceeding attacks count, allowing for a "supercharged" wildfire with potentially up to 20k AoE damage (from 5 attacks).

2) Applies a "Focused" status effect. Allows for repeated uses on the same target but will get canceled as soon as the machinist moves, focuses another target or takes any other action. Will cause a lot of repeated damage on a single target at the expense of being a sitting duck.

3) Lower the damage to 16k. Allow it to instantly KO the target if it has less than 50% HP. This would be the same as NIN's LB while keeping the range but limiting it to a single target.

My personal favourite would be 1). It's still the same skill as before without preparation but could be used against an entire group as well with proper preparation.

my job cant win 1v1 so the other job needs to be nerfed.

WAR
Remove the healing on the basic GCD combo
Switch out the primal rend stun with a heavy, give Blota a bind (but that ties into a bigger issue with CC effects in general :)
Idk, make it do less damage? It feels pretty shit being outdamaged by a warrior as a DPS :)
Reduce their max HP because of all the free healing in their kit, maybe like 60 or 59k
Reduce the guard breaking on LB to like 8 or 5 seconds. 15 is a bit nutty in conjunction with everything else their LB does
Seems like the global tank power budget went all into warrior cause it's the only tank you see like 90% of the time lmao

WHM
Fix the cure bug
Reduce LB charge rate by a chunk
Reduce HP to like 49 or 48k
Tone down one of the aspects of the LB, either 12k damage, 2 second CC or 5% buff. Cause 18k damage, a 3 second aoe stun and a 10% healing-damage buff on a crazy quick charge rate is pretty oppressive. Oh and instant cast, don't forget that

SAM
Make the counter attack debuff not proc on aoe attacks. There are third party programs out there to target that for the LB one shot

MCH
Remove the oneshot on Analyzed Chain-saw. Literally no counterplay IF it happens. Stupid design. Give it a dot or increase its potency and make it an aoe attack

Uhhh diminishing returns on CC effects would also be cool, less visual vomit, buff other tanks. Not sure how but do it, they feel terrible in comparison to WAR. It'd also be cool to have something done about the people using add-ons and cheats :) Now, a personal gripe but I should not lose ranking points because a DPS on my team decided to not press buttons. I feel like attaching the garo event to pvp brought in a flood of people who queue in to ranked to try and get their mounts, but don't care enough to actually try to win. Feels pretty terrible demoting because of people like that. Hate it

Honestly CC needs to be nerfed across the board, there's fights where your team just can't content with the enemy team because they're running a cc deathball comp that makes it impossible to focus anything down because you're getting stunned, rooted, thrown around, silenced, etc and you only have 1 cleanse every 30 seconds that doesn't even work against some stuff like being transformed and your team has next to no cc options because of the team comp

The full health one-hit insta kills need to go.

They need to reinstate diminishing returns on stuns.

~Reduce SAMs overall CC and damage. It's way too much.
~Reduce WARs overall CC and damage. It's way too much.
~Reduce the speed at which WHM builds their LB and lower the stun duration from 3s to 2s
~AST LB has a harsh animation lock and isn't that impactful. Maybe some form of CC protection on self or others? Or Potentially making the effect more lethal? +50% -50%
~The other healers should be as good as WHM or WHM should be brought down to the power level of the other healers.
~Increase BLMs overall damage
~Diminishing returns on CC and or immunity to the same debuff
~Remove all 1 Shot Mechanics
~I understand that Melee have a standardized 5y range for latency purposes, but Melee are obliterating all ranged Jobs right now.
~Nothing in this mode should ignore Purify

Personally, the Imp status effect needs to end when the target takes damage, don't allow CCs to stack up one after the other, a person should be allowed to control a target longer than 2-3 secs.
I would also nerf alot of the AoE LBs because it just feels like they its better to set up a team wipe and more impact ful than a single target.
People complaining about WAR... I don't get it? Their LB is kinda the weakest in my mind. You don't get great CC immunity, and Fell Cleave doesn't hit very hard in my playing.
I would look at MNK and swap riddle of earth with a different skill, but overall... the issue with PvP is the CC chaining.
Seperate CCs in to Soft and Hard CCs types. Soft CCs are things like slows/heavy/silence, and hard CCs like stuns, imp, etc. Soft CCs you are immune from them for 2 secs after they take hold. Hard CCs should be 5-8 secs of immunity after their effects end.

Also I think Reapers and Dancers suffer the same kind of issues in CC. The problem is that AOE damage just isn't very good when the only way to shift the balance of the game is to take someone in specific out of commission. Both jobs also have fairly weak crowd control abilities, with one causing people to run away and the other causing people to walk inwards. Reaper also has the most predictable and easily countered move set of all the jobs. The "curse" that repeats all damage taken during it's application can easily be baited and the shroud phase from the LB usually just results in being spammed with every CC, thus negating the only burst the job has.

Compare that to samurai where if someone hits them they can just one shot someone. It's not like an AOE is going to kill a sam so they are getting free KOs.

I can only speak for PLD, but some changes I'd like to see are:

　

Intervene - function the way it's described in the tool tip. 2 additional stuns aren't OP, especially if Purify actually works the way it supposed to.

Guardian - reduction on the damage suffered in party member's place. As it is now, I either have to use Guard or I'm taking 2x damage whenever I use this.

Atonement - make this a separate button and have sword oath last for 30 seconds. That would allow PLD to expend the stacks of sword oath for either burst damage or curing depending on the situation and not have to use them because they replace the primary damage combo.

Hollowed Ground - needs to also make you immune to any CC that prevents you from using your blade combo.

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Originally Posted by XgungraveX

my job cant win 1v1 so the other job needs to be nerfed.

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I know this is trollbaiting but ill join the fun. SMN cant 1v1 anything im pretty sure without the opposing party misplaying terribly. Ergo nerf everything.

One thing I forgot to mention previously, quick chat needs WAY more options.

Suggested Additions:
1. Help <t> (for coordinating if you see someone getting ganked in the background)
2. Help me! (If you're the one getting ganked while everyone is chasing the enemy)
3. Conserve LB (For possible burst potential)
4. Use/Using LB (instead of just LB Ready allowing for coordination of targets)
5. Wait! (To try and catch people from running in since fall back and regroup is only for specific instances imo)
6. Enemy Behind us/Pinch/etc (for letting people know someone's coming from a side/behind you)
7. Incoming Field Effect! (For when aoe or bombs are coming up and some people are in the fray, Danger Bongos for PVP)
8. Use Guard/Guarding! (For flagging when you're using your defensive skill, this may be more niche but at least it tells someone that you've used it/are using it)
9. Don't attack <t>! (for moving people off of Tank or healer if they're getting killed trying to go after them. May not be needed with focusing on/attacking <t> )
10. I'm using Tilt Controls! (Kidding)



Essentially all the straightforward stuff that ANYONE would be able to call out if they were able to group up and/or utilize voice chat.

Can you use countdown in pvp? If so I'd love to build something like "LB <t>" then go into countdown. At least then you could herd the team a bit.

If even one person listens to you in the match you'd have a shot at organizing all these randos to possibly making a comeback/winning.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

One thing I forgot to mention previously, quick chat needs WAY more options.

Suggested Additions:
1. Help <t> (for coordinating if you see someone getting ganked in the background)
2. Help me! (If you're the one getting ganked while everyone is chasing the enemy)
3. Conserve LB (For possible burst potential)
4. Use/Using LB (instead of just LB Ready allowing for coordination of targets)
5. Wait! (To try and catch people from running in since fall back and regroup is only for specific instances imo)
6. Enemy Behind us/Pinch/etc (for letting people know someone's coming from a side/behind you)
7. Incoming Field Effect! (For when aoe or bombs are coming up and some people are in the fray, Danger Bongos for PVP)
8. Use Guard/Guarding! (For flagging when you're using your defensive skill, this may be more niche but at least it tells someone that you've used it/are using it)
9. Don't attack <t>! (for moving people off of Tank or healer if they're getting killed trying to go after them. May not be needed with focusing on/attacking <t> )
10. I'm using Tilt Controls! (Kidding)



Essentially all the straightforward stuff that ANYONE would be able to call out if they were able to group up and/or utilize voice chat.

Can you use countdown in pvp? If so I'd love to build something like "LB <t>" then go into countdown. At least then you could herd the team a bit.

If even one person listens to you in the match you'd have a shot at organizing all these randos to possibly making a comeback/winning.

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Theres countdowns above specific players, whether thats an ingame function or not i dont know. But ive had several games where it goes 5 4 3 2 1 above specific targets.

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

Theres countdowns above specific players, whether thats an ingame function or not i dont know. But ive had several games where it goes 5 4 3 2 1 above specific targets.

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That's people making macros. I've seen them on Reddit. Going to try and build some myself and coordinate it like the AST hotbars where it's lined up to the side of my enemy list in pvp.

I've seen some comparisons to OW where the macro changes depending on targeting a party member vs everything else. Being able to say "with <t" instead of covering <t> to show that you're going with them or "LB ready <t>" to signal you want to time it together would be fast communication needed to coordinate properly.

- Make Purify work as it is stated to.
- Make Run Full Auto, to counter Cheaters.
- Turn off ALL CC skills. Best way again to counter cheaters

They need to adjust LBs to ensure that their effects cannot be negated completely by CC whether by accident or deliberately on the part of people using auto-CC scripts.

WHM LB also needs to be a 90 second cooldown instead of one minute because it's a touch ridiculous compared to the other one minute LBs.