The fate of the scions.... (SPOILER 6.0/6.1)

I'm sick of them and wouldn't be happier to see them all turn into static NPCs with a couple lines of chat when you encounter them in their final locations. I don't want them to die, I just want them out of my life and was bummed to have to get them to the MSQ dungeon. That being said, it was pretty clear at the end when the group was going their own ways that although the Scions wouldn't congregate as a complete group any longer, we'd still be doing things in small groups for at least a while longer. I just hope they're using these current activities to get their individual stories told before going our separate ways for good.

Needing them for MSQ dungeons at this point works well for Trusts too.

I'm crossing my eyes, fingers, and toes that this phenomenon doesn't last long though.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

I just overall don't like the Scions anymore. It has been the same crew for years and years. They're very samey: overly polite scholarly academics who like to lecture my head off about fantasy metaphysics that the writers make up and retcon as they go along, with the same heritage in the same country, and most of them are elves. And individually, most of them aren't interesting. Alphinaud was okay during ARR and Heavensward, but then he started becoming grating, and now he has to compete with the catboy for the role as the WoL's nerdy best friend deuteragonist. The competent Exarch devolved into a nerdby catboy who forced his way into my life way too late and does not act his age. Lyse and Alisaie competed for the same role as the brash tomboy. Urianger was dull as a doorknob until ShB reinvented him as a cool uncle. Y'shtola was possibly the most dull of them all, standing around and picking on people and being Ms. exposition. Thancred is okay.

I wish half of them had been killed off during ShB and Endwalker and the other half legit retired and went their separate ways, and that 6.1 began introducing a completely brand new cast of original characters.

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I understand your point. But I don't think you be satisfied with the replacement either. We already have all the stereotypes: the edgy, the charming, the nerd, the scholar, the tomboy, the peacemaker and so it goes. What is the point to add another edgy character, with a different haircolor, features and new names?

It's also bothers me that G'raha in the Source is a fanboy teenager cause Exarch personality was way more interesting. But I wouldn't be concerned about him cause if there's a character going anywhere is G'raha, his fanbase is HUGE.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

While I can understand the perspective of a new player who may have started recently being quite attached to Scions, you must understand that these characters have been here for a *decade.* As someone who has started in ARR, I am begging for a new cast because the development of the Scions happens at too slow of a pace nor does anything of interest happen to them.

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I've been playing since 2016, I don't think I'm a new player. But now you bring this point, yes, I think it would be even worst for new players.

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Originally Posted by lollamoon

It's also bothers me that G'raha in the Source is a fanboy teenager cause Exarch personality was way more interesting. But I wouldn't be concerned about him cause if there's a character going anywhere is G'raha, his fanbase is HUGE.

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I'm fine with it, mostly because people are only the masks they wear in specific roles and company. Most people with any sort of social tact is not the same person hanging out with their best friends that they are on the job or with their significant other.

The Exarch was who G'raha needed to be while leading the people of The First against the Sin Eaters. He was also physically older and more worn down. G'raha is a much younger man with no need to be a leader and standing side-by-side with his boyish idol.

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Originally Posted by lollamoon

I understand your point. But I don't think you be satisfied with the replacement either. We already have all the stereotypes: the edgy, the charming, the nerd, the scholar, the tomboy, the peacemaker and so it goes. What is the point to add another edgy character, with a different haircolor, features and new names?

It's also bothers me that G'raha in the Source is a fanboy teenager cause Exarch personality was way more interesting. But I wouldn't be concerned about him cause if there's a character going anywhere is G'raha, his fanbase is HUGE.

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Yea, I wish they had gone a different route with G'raha. I think when the memories converged, it should have failed or been incomplete. Then his character would have a new arch: coming to terms with his alt timeline self and living up to the "name". I say incomplete so that he could retain his fighting knowledge for trust purposes since he's currently set as an all-rounder.

As to the topic, I do hope they retire the cast who have had their arcs completed and work in replacements for their combat role.

Y'shtola should hang around for as long as our purposes line up with her goal of finding a way to travel between reflections. But once that has been done, she should retire from the main cast.

Of course they can make cameos as appropriate, but they need to bring in a cast who has some personal story arcs to go through as subplots since most of the scions have completed their arcs.

What I'm trying to say is....they CAN make this characters way more interesting and still relevant if they write a good plot.

Estinien going for a hunt treasure was great! But later they come back to the same "I need to help the dragons I use to hate" plot. Same with Y'shtola, she is my less favorite cause I think she's bland but it was really interesting when she finally showed us vulnerability and wanted to do something reckless just to go back to Runar. But again she go back to the same "I'm doing this cause I have thirsty for knowledge and I want to unravel the mysteries of the universe". Damn, let her be in love!

What if they keep the scions, but develop their characters by taking them out of their comfort zones? They already did with Thancred and it worked very well. We just think they have nothing to add cause everytime Estinien open his mouth he starts to "I used to have so much hate in my heart.....". The problem is not the character, the problem is lazy writing.

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Originally Posted by lollamoon

What if they keep the scions, but develop their characters by taking them out of their comfort zones? They already did with Thancred and it worked very well. We just think they have nothing to add cause everytime Estinien open his mouth he starts to "I used to have so much hate in my heart.....". The problem is not the character, the problem is lazy writing.

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Given how preoccupied it seems the writers are with maintaining the invincible plushie-status of these characters for their twitter fanbase, this will prove to be a nearly impossible task. I agree with you that the writing is lazy and that given the proper time even characters who are as unbelievably boring as Thancred right now might be redeemed if something drastic were to occur. Given the fact they are unwilling to do this however, it is better to move on.

10 years of the same characters is already pushing it-we cannot have them around for 10 more or no story of meaningful substance will be told.

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Originally Posted by Rayne6665

Well , we’re in a new story arc now now that the tale of Hydaelyn and Zodiark is over and finished with. We’re back to being an adventurer in 6.1+ as we always were and will be setting out into the unknown like what Emet-Selch was mentioning about.

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Interesting point, actually. Whilst I very probably missed it, I don't recall our character actually being referred to as 'The Warrior of Light' in the new MSQ content. I seem to recall we were addressed as 'Aventurer' (and or "our saviour" at least once).... but not 'Warrior of Light'.

Is the WoL title obsolete without Venat/Hydaelyn?

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

I was so pissed when I had to drag Yshtola around Sharlayan on those follow quests.

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Reading this made me laugh remembering how I would just drag her straight through all of those glowing circles they wanted me to stop in. Nope, no desire to talk to you, pick up your damn paws and keep up.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think they missed a good opportunity to reintroduce the NPC's involved in the Void Ark raids. They have experience dealing with Voidsent and pretty much all of them are Sky Pirates eager for adventure so...they'd have been an excellent fit for the supposed 'themes' of the patch.

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Damn, what a good ass idea that would've been, I actually really like those guys. Wonder if Square even remembers they exist.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Move on. Make new characters. Or for goodness sake do something with the ones you insist on keeping around.

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To add to my previous comment about Y'shtola (sorry, really have a bone to pick with this character lol), There's one instance during EW where her blindness is sort of relevant. Shortly before Zenos in our body blows his load early and exposes himself, Y'shtola ask if that's really us as she can't quite discern whose aether that is. Wouldn't it have bee a smidge more interesting if she had been the one to expose his identity? what if she had developed a bit of PTSD(Gasp, a character flaw? In my scions? Blasphemy!) from being nearly split in twain by Zenos back in SB, and upon feeling his vile aether nearby, she tenses up and instinctively lobs a fireball at him? They had a perfect opportunity to have her unique ability be instrumental in exposing him, but apparently the best she can do is express skepticism.

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Originally Posted by lollamoon

What I'm trying to say is....they CAN make this characters way more interesting and still relevant if they write a good plot.

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You're right, they could be more interesting and relevant, though imo this won't happen for as long as they continue to behave like stoic unflinching automatons. The Ultima Thule segment has everyone flying out to the edge of the universe, literal uncharted territory, come THIS close to suffocating until Thancred wills atmosphere into existence within that space, not exhibit much of a reaction upon learning of his fate, then they proceed to one by one just unmake themselves with a straight face and a smile. And then there's Alisaie.

Moments after being told by Alphinaud that they're going to be Thanos snapped out of existence, she cries, not out of existential fear of losing her life, or fear of failing everyone back home, but because the warrior of light is going to be lonely saving everyone's ass once again. She just learned that her life is going to be over in a few moments, and her first reaction is to pity us. How is this a normal human reaction to anything?

If they're going to insist on keeping the scions around, then the scions are in desperate need of a reality check as their toxic stoicism just isn't going to cut it anymore. They need to be kicked down several notches for them to feel human again. They need to be able to feel fear, anxiety, anger, REAL depression! When Urianger implies his transgressions and deceit are eating away at his mental health in the middle of an apocalypse that's designed specifically to target people just like him, I expect to see black flames manifesting from his body, but I suppose scions just aren't allowed to feel vulnerable anymore.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

Edit: I just wanna add that I used to love this game so much but I’ve noticed that I seem to mostly complain about it now. It’s like part of me is still trying to hold on because I want that same feeling I had back in HW and StB. But some things are just for a season and then it’s time to move on I guess. Not sure how much longer I can hold on to the few things that keep me coming back…

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I've played MMOs for over 20 years and been gaming for over 30. I've definitely gotten to the point where I had to leave some series because they just weren't my cup of tea anymore. Most recently has been the Assassin's Creed series. And I left EverQuest after over 10 years and WoW after almost 10 years and I forget how many years in EverQuest II. There's no shame in doing something healthy for yourself. If you're unhappy, is forcing yourself to participate going to make you happy or just even unhappier? This isn't a "Go play something else if you don't like it" comment. It's advice from someone who's been there that you may just need to step away.

That's also not to say it has to be forever. You can still keep up on news. You can still see if something might pique your interest. There's a proposed more stealth-focused game coming for AC so I'm keeping my eye on it. Just not planning to get the next big one. So you may not do these patches, step away for a bit, but then hear about something in 7.0 that really makes you excited again. And the beautiful part of XIV is you can come back like you were never away.

I love me some G'raha in all of his forms, Jonathan Bailey *sigh* has that voice for me also. I suspect if we had a break for an expansion then people would potentially be a little less fedup and some new faces would always go down well and seeing an old friend again would always be a bit more heart warming i do get people have fatigue.

EQ and EQ2 aww the memories.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

I love me some G'raha in all of his forms, Jonathan Bailey *sigh* has that voice for me also. I suspect if we had a break for an expansion then people would potentially be a little less fedup and some new faces would always go down well and seeing an old friend again would always be a bit more heart warming i do get people have fatigue.

EQ and EQ2 aww the memories.

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When XIV is down for maintenance, I have a new human warlock I've started fresh in EQII that I poke around with solo. With mercenaries even the group dungeons are mostly doable and there is a dungeon finder now. I was doing some Velious stuff last I played. I was a few expansions ahead of that when I quit playing full time with my froglok ranger main.

I'm super curious about what Mayong is doing this latest EQ expansion but I don't think that one had the same measures put in so you can catch up or progress on your own. Maybe I'll poke my head just to check since my sub gives access to both. I have a friend I got into EQ back in the day who's still raiding with his guild on his dwarven cleric.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

The way i see it is that we will probably still call on them but a patch is not the place to just sweep the board and replace with a new cast. Its going to take time

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These patch MSQs are 3-4 hours long and they can't even introduce 1 brand new party member? How much more time do they need? I remember Guild Wars 2 was able to introduce a new cast of original characters to replace the old one in a single patch story that was only 2-3 hours long.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

These patch MSQs are 3-4 hours long and they can't even introduce 1 brand new party member? How much more time do they need? I remember Guild Wars 2 was able to introduce a new cast of original characters to replace the old one in a single patch story that was only 2-3 hours long.

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I believe i said "sweep the board" i.e replace them all.

I think Adding characters can and should be done, but given the narritive of 6.1 im not sure where they could add them? Then again they did develop Vashaan more then he was at the end of Endwalker and add 5 potential antagonists. 6.1 MSQ was an epilogue and a restart all wrapped up together. It makes absolute sense that at this stage WOL would go to the scions because beyond the organisations they are the WOL's closest friends. I fully expect 6.2 to continue wiht developing existing cast added in EW and then 6.3 start the move towards 7.0 and the introduction of characters.

Honestly, I think the thing about the Scions is that the 6.1 story gave them reasons to not be involved going forward (bar G'raha and Estinien) I fully suspect Y'shtola will go into retirement on the first at the end of this story arc, urianger will be busy on the moon and Thancred, will go to the first with yshtola.

Depending on where 7.0 takes place and the story there, we will likely see a motley crew come together bofore, or during 7.0 while the older scions retire into secondary roles for the time being. I understand why people want change, but i honestly think, even if the scions do retire somewhat, that its unreasonable to think they wont keep popping up now and then, as required. Or that every scion will suddenly be removed from the story or trust. Yes this is a new story arc, but i doubt that means completely throwing away everything that occured before. More likely we will see scions slowly recede inot the background while newer characters rise to take their role. In some Respects, Graha is already doing this with Yshtola / Urianger.

If I had to add in multiple characters at once the easiest place to have done it was at the bar in Thavnair. A group of adventurers are discussing their next quest, they notice you, and convince you to tag along. Short sweet and to the point.

I don't know what their plan moving forward is but for now it seems at the very least we have retained Estinien as our muscle, Y'shtola for lore exposition and general magic use, along with Varshahn...who I suppose might be a healer if they added him to Trusts? They could also just make a new adult body for him for fighting purposes. I'm not opposed to having Vrtra around, and presently I'd rather go to the void than Meracydia, land of kangaroos.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

While I can understand the perspective of a new player who may have started recently being quite attached to Scions, you must understand that these characters have been here for a *decade.* As someone who has started in ARR, I am begging for a new cast because the development of the Scions happens at too slow of a pace nor does anything of interest happen to them.

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I started playing in summer of last year and I'm tired of the Scions. They're too homogeneous, there's no spice. I would've gladly traded all of them to keep Emet and Hythlodaeus. I'm not even particularly a fan of Fordola, but at least she'd shake things up provided she could free herself from Arenvald.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If I had to add in multiple characters at once the easiest place to have done it was at the bar in Thavnair. A group of adventurers are discussing their next quest, they notice you, and convince you to tag along. Short sweet and to the point.

I don't know what their plan moving forward is but for now it seems at the very least we have retained Estinien as our muscle, Y'shtola for lore exposition and general magic use, along with Varshahn...who I suppose might be a healer if they added him to Trusts? They could also just make a new adult body for him for fighting purposes. I'm not opposed to having Vrtra around, and presently I'd rather go to the void than Meracydia, land of kangaroos.

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True they could just add a bunch of random NPCs with no back story and have the WOL just tag along as an adventurer. But the issue with this is that most people know who the WOL is. We saw this in parts of the questline itself. You could add a single character and could possible give enough scope to get a sense of who they were, but i think, WOL is too well known to just "drop in" and join another team of adventurers. If said characters joined as part of a expedition, then yes i could see that happening, but ultimately, i still think 6.1 and 6.2 is about wrapping up loose ends while also laying the stones for the next story. Thavnair's problems were neatly dealt with. 6.2 will probably do something similiar with Garlemald. Sharlayan does not have anything to "wrap up" so to speak, but i wouldn't be surprised if it doesnt serve a purpose in 6.3. This would leave 6.4 and 6.5 to set up and include the initial characters for 7.0 with more being introduced later. Again i honestly dont think they will replace all of the scions and those we get, we likely already know, (such as jullas or Sicard).

Yes it isnt impossible for them to have added new characters in 6.1 - but moving on wasnt the entire point of the 6.1 story, the focus was wrapping up Thavnair, providing hooks for the new story going forward, Provide some light comic releif to balance the overly emotive and heavy Endwalker MSQ and provide a thread into 6.2 - it did all of these well and honestly, i dont think they had adequate scope to plausibly add another character to focus on in 6.1 - When the trajectory is set, then yes i could plausibly see one added them, but currently it does IMO feel like they are wrapping up the scions for Retirement prior to adding any new characters who will follow us on our next journey. Besies if they are going to add a character will it really be a random adventurer from the bar in Thavnair or will it be someone central to the story of 7.0? I honestly think the latter is more likely.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I think Adding characters can and should be done, but given the narritive of 6.1 im not sure where they could add them? Then again they did develop Vashaan more then he was at the end of Endwalker and add 5 potential antagonists. 6.1 MSQ was an epilogue and a restart all wrapped up together. It makes absolute sense that at this stage WOL would go to the scions because beyond the organisations they are the WOL's closest friends. I fully expect 6.2 to continue wiht developing existing cast added in EW and then 6.3 start the move towards 7.0 and the introduction of characters.

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The role quests have left a LOT of strings for future Trusts. They're people we already know and have history with so it's not us having to build relationships and trust with strangers, but they haven't been in our main crew all the time. I could see them developing those angles up a lot more than completely new and unknown characters.

I'm very pleased that we're not getting a whole new cast. I'm attached to the Scions and want to keep going on adventures with them. On this forum, I know that's a fairly unpopular opinion, but you can find other FFXIV spaces where people are still enthusiastic about the Scions and don't want them replaced.

I hope they replace Tataru as well. She really isn't interesting at all.

I prefer to stay with the Scions. Add new Characters to the troupe but keep the old ones too

You're not the only one. I want to continue on with the main cast of characters we already have. Getting to know a whole new cast makes me feel like i'm not even playing the same game anymore.

Which is a huge reason I couldn't get into Mass Effect: Andromeda as well.

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Originally Posted by Scott

I prefer to stay with the Scions. Add new Characters to the troupe but keep the old ones too

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I am of the opposite group, I want a new cast, scions have served there purpose no reason to keep them around to slowly kill there characters. I think in order to allow players a new jump in point as well they have to move away from these characters as well to bring in a whole new cast so people won't come in confused as to who these people are. It's a mistake that WoW has made, and I don't think keeping this long MSQ is going to boost player numbers either seeing as one of the most common reasons players quit is because of the length of the MSQ.