PVP Crystalline Conflict do NOT need to be solo queue or full party queue

So, just because I'm not good enough to win in ranked, I should play in casual and be steamrollered by teams of 5 premade and lose there too?

Then what would you call a mode where it's not ranked, but also fair with randomly made teams, but you can still get credit to get through the battle pass?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

So, just because I'm not good enough to win in ranked, I should play in casual and be steamrollered by teams of 5 premade and lose there too?

Then what would you call a mode where it's not ranked, but also fair with randomly made teams, but you can still get credit to get through the battle pass?

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Its 900 for a win and 700 for a loss, you can lose your way through the battlepass nearly as fast as winning it to be fair.

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Originally Posted by Elesh

Ranked should be about fairness. You are correct.

Casual should be about fun. Fun, in an MMO setting, for MOST people, tends to involve their friends. Just because you don't like your friends doesn't mean nobody should be allowed to have fun.

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Could argue that fairness is fun. Why not just wait for PvP Teams? You don't think this is the end all of pvp content, right? The Team option hasn't been entirely removed, it's just disabled. It's still in your menu. It's very possible SE is releasing solos first as a way to introduce the content, giving everyone a fair and equal learning ground. even if we're all new, getting stomped by a 5 stack is gonna put people off.

if playing with friends is the end all for you, this content isn't for you at the moment (msq being mandatory must be suffering). you COULD play frontlines if you want a pvp team right now, but that is being conveniently ignored. Could farm up those mounts and commander coat, or just spend your time complaining about what "isn't there" in the game's best pvp patch so far.

inb4 "but other games let you team up!" And this is SE probably attempting to learn from and not repeat the mistakes of their peers. Remember how the director made the devs play WoW?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

So, just because I'm not good enough to win in ranked, I should play in casual and be steamrollered by teams of 5 premade and lose there too?

Then what would you call a mode where it's not ranked, but also fair with randomly made teams, but you can still get credit to get through the battle pass?

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If you can't win in ranked what gives you any chance to win in casuals?
Both are the same thing one just has a rating system and one does not.

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Originally Posted by HalinFluffyBuns

If you can't win in ranked what gives you any chance to win in casuals?
Both are the same thing one just has a rating system and one does not.

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Because as a duo they can double team others and laugh about it over a beverage later and brag about how amazing they are lol.

I mean that is already happening already with randoms so what's the difference? I've seen random players double and even triple-team players in the 60+ solo games I have played. so far

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Originally Posted by HalinFluffyBuns

I mean that is already happening already with randoms so what's the difference? I've seen random players double and even triple-team players in the 60+ solo games I have played. so far

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True. Even on my FC the only way to play together is as we queue at the same time and often we land on the same team or even the same match. And this bullshit about duos against solos makes no sense at all. Every game that allows duos to queue for ranked is designed to make sure that at least 1 duo premade is on both sides, in League for exemple is almost impossible to join Duo and being matched agains 5 solos is aways 2-2-1 vs 2-2-1 or 2-1-1 vs 2-1-1. there are rare cases where you'll get 2-2-1 vs 2-1-1 but i believe only if theres no else for the game to match you with.

SE isnt a small indie company and a system like that inst rocket science.

Being stuck with solos queues and not being able to comunicate properly makes the experience even worse.
Finding 1 ppl to play with is not that hard, thats what Party Finder exists for. Having to find another 9 to do custom matches on the other hand is nearly impossible.

Devs worked hard on abilites and on the pvp mode(and they did well) only to cap the players the possibility to play with their friends and have fun.

If they want players to engage in PVP maybe realizing that interacting with each other is fundamental on a team game. Since they are so afraid to let players talk to each other or even playing together, maybe they should'nt have added pvp at all.

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Originally Posted by NeoDivinity

True. Even on my FC only way to play together we queue at the same time and often we land on the same team or even the same match. And this bullshit about duos against solos makes no sense at all. Every game that allows duos to queue for ranked is designed to make sure that at least 1 duo premade is on both sides, in League for exemple is almost impossible to join Duo and being matched agains 5 solos is aways 2-2-1 vs 2-2-1 or 2-1-1 vs 2-1-1. there are rare cases where you'll get 2-2-1 vs 2-1-1 but i believe only if theres no else for the game to match you with.

SE isnt a small indie company and a system like that inst rocket science.

Being stuck with solos queues and not being able to comunicate properly makes the experience even worse.
Finding 1 ppl to play with is not that hard, thats what Party Finder exists. Having to find another 9 to do custom matches on the other hand is nearly impossible.

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Like I would be all for solo queue if the quick chat was Actually decent and had a few more commands like a "Help me!" and maybe some other useful commands but as of right now there's no way to ask for help and it sucks

heck, even a "Watch the rear" and "I'm Flanking" since some maps do have some good flanks.
But as it stands I would much rather play a casual mode with a duo or a full team of friends and actually enjoy the mode than sit in solo queue heck pulling at my hair strings keeping my wig together

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I been playing it since patch went live and one more win away from getting silver. I been going up and down with wins. If you’re a healer you are an instant target. So it hasn’t changed since feast. Still same old same. “See healer, thrash healer” was gonna switch to dps but I love healer.

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The one time I tried as DPS I was in an all DPS party. AST is my main but I only queue as that now to make sure my party has at least one healer.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

Could argue that fairness is fun. Why not just wait for PvP Teams? You don't think this is the end all of pvp content, right? The Team option hasn't been entirely removed, it's just disabled. It's still in your menu. It's very possible SE is releasing solos first as a way to introduce the content, giving everyone a fair and equal learning ground. even if we're all new, getting stomped by a 5 stack is gonna put people off.

if playing with friends is the end all for you, this content isn't for you at the moment (msq being mandatory must be suffering). you COULD play frontlines if you want a pvp team right now, but that is being conveniently ignored. Could farm up those mounts and commander coat, or just spend your time complaining about what "isn't there" in the game's best pvp patch so far.

inb4 "but other games let you team up!" And this is SE probably attempting to learn from and not repeat the mistakes of their peers. Remember how the director made the devs play WoW?

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Frontline is not a fun mode. It's just badly designed. Sorry Square Enix. You failed on that one. *shrugs* It is what it is.

CC appears to be a fun game mode. So I am interested in trying it.

There are three problems with your argument:
1) Adding the ability to queue with another person does not make the game mode any less fair - unless you are incapable of also queuing with another person.
2) What you're describing is a ranked mode. A game mode where you make sacrifices in terms of flexibility to preserve perfect match quality. Why have two separate modes if they're fundamentally identical? Why not just have ranked if the two are no different.
The reason you have an unranked queue is so people can have a place to go where you sacrificing match quality to have better flexibility and thus have a less serious, more CASUAL, more fun experience. That's the point. Right now they might as well have no casual mode because it's the same as ranked anyways.
3) Even if they don't want to add 5-stacks(which still seems silly to me but fine), they can still add 2 and 3 man parties to it and meet in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Elesh

Frontline is not a fun mode. It's just badly designed. Sorry Square Enix. You failed on that one. *shrugs* It is what it is.

CC appears to be a fun game mode. So I am interested in trying it.

There are three problems with your argument:
1) Adding the ability to queue with another person does not make the game mode any less fair - unless you are incapable of also queuing with another person.
2) What you're describing is a ranked mode. A game mode where you make sacrifices in terms of flexibility to preserve perfect match quality. Why have two separate modes if they're fundamentally identical? Why not just have ranked if the two are no different.
The reason you have an unranked queue is so people can have a place to go where you sacrificing match quality to have better flexibility and thus have a less serious, more CASUAL, more fun experience. That's the point. Right now they might as well have no casual mode because it's the same as ranked anyways.
3) Even if they don't want to add 5-stacks(which still seems silly to me but fine), they can still add 2 and 3 man parties to it and meet in the middle.

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People said the same thing with Feast and how awful that turned out
When they introduced team vs team Feast, it end up as wind trading and SE had to kill it right away.
You have to wait until Crystal Conflict population to stabilize so they can gauge on 5 v 5 premade mode
SE learned their lesson with Wolf Den and Feast, they will not repeat it again for Crystal Conflict.
Whether you like it or not, Crystal Conflict is a mode with a little coordination making a lot difference
This is how reason Focus Countdown got removed.

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Originally Posted by Lolli282

The one time I tried as DPS I was in an all DPS party. AST is my main but I only queue as that now to make sure my party has at least one healer.

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Do you get pounced and thrashed. When I que in as healer I always just get targeted the whole match. It’s quite funny.

Just get rid of ranked at this point. There's no point in it being there. The rewards are the same as unranked and whether or not you gain or lose a star is total RNG. It doesn't matter how good you and your job are at PVP if you constantly get grouped with 4 other players who are not experienced and don't care whether or not they win because they also don't see the difference between ranked and unranked.

The PVP mode and gameplay is great. The ranked system is total trash.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

People said the same thing with Feast and how awful that turned out
When they introduced team vs team Feast, it end up as wind trading and SE had to kill it right away.
You have to wait until Crystal Conflict population to stabilize so they can gauge on 5 v 5 premade mode
SE learned their lesson with Wolf Den and Feast, they will not repeat it again for Crystal Conflict.
Whether you like it or not, Crystal Conflict is a mode with a little coordination making a lot difference
This is how reason Focus Countdown got removed.

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I agree completely. People are just upset they can't be carried or use win trading.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

People said the same thing with Feast and how awful that turned out
When they introduced team vs team Feast, it end up as wind trading and SE had to kill it right away.

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What makes you think that CC is immune from this. There are ways to force rigged matches and there will always be smurfing and boosting alts regardless of solo or team queues in any online pvp mode. The only way to counter this is to make the rewards accessible to everyone, thus making ranking purely a bragging rights and nothing tangible in-game since everyone can get the gear you have (albeit at a later season). At best you might have an exclusive title but, glamours, mounts, misc, will eventually be available to everyone later and everyone knows that is the real endgame and why ppl will pvp in the first place.

It should also stabilize pvp in the long run allowing casual people to do pvp and get the gear they want rather than deal with fomo. That's the only thing I don't agree with, and how the seasons works. I'd much rather all gear stay, but increase the price for each piece after the season ends so at least you can still get it but have to work a bit more than if you played within a season. Fomo just creates frustration for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I agree completely. People are just upset they can't be carried or use win trading.

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Hmm I love these generalizations man really. Nah it's not POSSIBLE that you want to just play with your spouse or friends. There's no way you'd like to pvp with some FC folks. Naaaah homes, that's bs. You just want to win trade and get carried.

I swear the logic of some of you people is amazing. IMAGINE defaulting all people who want to play with folks in an MMO (mind you) to people who want easy wins and trading...

They should add a separate casual queue for groups but that's it. Leave the 2 current queues as solo.

They could probably take a page from League of Legends to get a good Match Making System. Even though League HAS something of a loser's queue when the game just matches you against, like, a pre-made 5-man team of people 2 elos above you while you get a bunch of people from your rank or bellow and maybe a smurfing duo to play Bot, I think it would be better than just flat out giving us a 50-50 win rate when the game expects you to be winning more to climb. It is balanced to keep you winning just enough to keep you playing, giving you just enough of a give in Ranked to keep you climbing but knocking you down to extend the elo until you find your place, and even then the chances aren't exactly just 50-50. There's a science in there that the guys spent an ammount of money researching that probably could feed a town for a year, so I couldn't tell how their thing work.

And yeah the player pool would be a magnitude smaller than the MOBA giant, which would probably mean that the exact system wouldn't work to get fast queues on FFXIV, but you'd still be emulating a ranking ladder of 5 people that can play with any configuration of 1 to 5 people in a team. And they don't even REALLY segregate between how many people queue up together or not, because you CAN queue for Ranked Solo, Duo and Team but those often go against eachother (Because you couldn't make a match with ONLY Duos anyway in a 5-man team). This makes for faster queues than just waiting for people playing for exactly what you queue for, like Feast was. Hell, even League, which is a massive giant of a game, have to deal with queue times in upwards of hours when the guy goes into Challenger rank and stuff, so you really don't want to go the Feast route and have 4 different queues for it.

I think there's something to be learnt from there, at any rate. Or any MOBA really. Probably other MMOs as well but I honestly don't really remember how much of them work nowadays so I can't really bring an example up.

I think Premade Queues should NOT be a think, at least not for Crystal Conflict Ranked Matches, simply because it is way too big of a advantage to have a full team on discord coordinating themselves aganist any random or semi- random group. If you really insist of doing something like that, then you can always coordinate this kind of stuff via Partyfinder and ask for other premade teams to challenge yours. It wont be ranked, but it might give you the fun you want, assuming thats what your goal is.

If anything, It should be possible to do premade Groups for both Ranked and Casual Play, IF we get something like a proper Arena Mode where 2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4 or a 5-10 person Free4All is possible (not like Feast where you have to collect Medals, but simply have X amount of Retries when youre incapacitated before being down for good).

Blows my mind the length this community will go to keep people from playing with their friends/or others only to make "their" experience better for themselves.

"BuT wIn TrAdInG!!!!!!!"

No, we simply want to play with our friends. If you want to address the win trading issues, why not point finger towards SE for not regulating the report system for PVP properly. Instead of ignoring the issue and ruining the experience for others. Put that energy into telling SE to resolve said issue. You all act like Win trading is RAMPANT within the community when in reality, it's a small percentage of the same people doing it.

Blame it on the fixed groups with VC that kept bullying newbies in PvP, at least on my DCs (JP).
Hidden Gorge is likely closed for this reason. When you allow parties to queue for PvP, some bad people will exploit it to bully single players. Those people aren't doing it for ranking or winning. They just want to be bullies and that took the motivation away from casual players.
Not being able to play with friends is collateral damage.

Sorry I'm on my phone so I can't edit my last post.
One suggestion is to make a matching system for parties only. I think that'll be a good idea to avoid the problem.

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Originally Posted by TakumiHarada

Blame it on the fixed groups with VC that kept bullying newbies in PvP, at least on my DCs (JP).
Hidden Gorge is likely closed for this reason. When you allow parties to queue for PvP, some bad people will exploit it to bully single players. Those people aren't doing it for ranking or winning. They just want to be bullies and that took the motivation away from casual players.
Not being able to play with friends is a collateral damage.

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i get it but i fell this only happens this due to the lack of players engaging in PvP, it became a loop where no one's engaged because they are being bullied so making queues long and the PvP community empty allowing the potential new PvP players being gated or disencouraged at all. But with EW and 6.1 they have a chance to change that, if there is a good amount of the community playing pvp even tho these premades group still exists the chances of them having the same impact diminishes considerably since you would be matched way less with them.

As right now majority of PvP is organized trough Discord. Also communication is a problem, of course we should not allow behaviors seen in WoW or League community but also being strict to premade generic comands isnt a solution there has to be a middle ground. Makes me feel that SE don't trust in the community they built nor in the system they developed.

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Originally Posted by NeoDivinity

i get it but i fell this only happens this due to the lack of players engaging in PvP, it became a loop where no one's engaged because they are being bullied so making queues long and the PvP community empty allowing the potential new PvP players being gated or disencouraged at all. But with EW and 6.1 they have a chance to change that, if there is a good amount of the community playing pvp even tho these premades group still exists the chances of them having the same impact diminishes considerably since you would be matched way less with them.

As right now majority of PvP is organized trough Discord. Also communication is a problem, of course we should not allow behaviors seen in WoW or League community but also being strict to premade generic comands isnt a solution there has to be a middle ground. Makes me feel that SE don't trust in the community they built nor in the system they developed.

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Ofc they don't trust the community. It's part of why you have to watch your words in content, why stuff is getting dumbed down and why pvp has little semblance of team play or options

It is good that ranked matches does not allow premade group's.
It gets impossible to balance the team's and we would get a big boosting problem which would result in frustrated lower ranked player's and RMT boostings.
Long-term that would reduce the active PvP player base and will Kill pvp again.

Just look at the biggest 5v5 PvP game, League of Legends.
In high ranks they also disable the possibility to play with friends and also think about completely deleting duoq due to all the issues it brings.

I don't care about the not ranked matches, they could enable it for them.
But ranked has to stay solo to make it fair for everyone.
And I the PvP playerbase is not big enough for a separate flex queue ranking with friends.

Completly agree, it's a MMO, you should be able to have fun with your friends, in casual at least, saying that being able to "coordenate with your friends" is unfair against other people is like saying that it's unfair that people who are in FCs can clear high end raids before people who are playing alone because they could communicate, it makes no sense, mate, if the people on the other team are friends playing and HAVING FUN, then invite your friends and have your fun, if you lose, you're gonna be frustrated if it's against a pre made group, or a bunch of randos anyway

Duo que is lame for ranked. Solo que for the win. I do agree that non ranked should have duo or team.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

People said the same thing with Feast and how awful that turned out
When they introduced team vs team Feast, it end up as wind trading and SE had to kill it right away.
You have to wait until Crystal Conflict population to stabilize so they can gauge on 5 v 5 premade mode
SE learned their lesson with Wolf Den and Feast, they will not repeat it again for Crystal Conflict.
Whether you like it or not, Crystal Conflict is a mode with a little coordination making a lot difference
This is how reason Focus Countdown got removed.

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The beauty of crystal conflict is that it actually has the solution built into its design. The problem you mentioned would be pointless.
Between the rewards for losing, the match length, and the way the pvp works... it would be meaningless to win trade in casual. You'd go to a ton of effort to gain a tiny bit of points in a way that would be extremely easy to catch using a simple script on the dev team side.

You're assuming changes were made to fix a problem that could never exist in this game mode. Or at least, it would benefit people in such a small way that nobody would ever care. The season pass is so easy to max out in the time provided that win trading is literally meaningless, even assuming it were possible.

So ya... you're fearing a tiny problem. So no... that's not the concern. Or at least, I would hope that Square Enix is not THAT stupid as to think win trading would matter in this mode.

It's really bad honestly. You have to pray for RNG that you have a good team composition or else you will lose. If you could change your class after dying, that would make it much better.

"I want to play my friends :(" is code for "I want to steamroll a bunch of randos with a premade group". At least be honest about it.

Irony is I am seeing quite few “familiar faces” on this thread that strongly against Frontline premade and now all of sudden change mood to “I want to play with my friends”
What a joke

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

"I want to play my friends :(" is code for "I want to steamroll a bunch of randos with a premade group". At least be honest about it.

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Or maybe we have friends unlike you and want to play with them?

I get that you want to play with friends, but regardless of your intent or how competitive you are you have to accept that opening that door utterly ruins the solo experience if introduced to the existing modes. I'm all for them adding a new mode that allows it however (casual still needs a solo queue), but strongly disagree with ranked premades. I question how much fun an easygoing couple will get out of it against the kind of stuff premades produce for example, and whether that will be worth the protesting and adding to the game but...why not. :P

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

I get that you want to play with friends, but regardless of your intent or how competitive you are you have to accept that opening that door utterly ruins the solo experience if introduced to the existing modes. I'm all for them adding a new mode that allows it however (casual still needs a solo queue), but strongly disagree with ranked premades. I question how much fun an easygoing couple will get out of it against the kind of stuff premades produce for example, and whether that will be worth the protesting and adding to the game but...why not. :P

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The solo experience is already ruined with this ranking system.

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Originally Posted by minidemons118

It's pretty lame that you have to queue in solo. This action can prevent friends playing together in pvp content. Is it just me or it's pretty stupid that small FC, friends, or community can't play together in pvp if under 2 of 5 players. Please take in consideration of changing this to allow folks queue together.

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no ty

this is the best way to prevent win trades so deal with it

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Or maybe we have friends unlike you and want to play with them?

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No. Stop being disingenuous. You want to roll randos. That's all you want. If it wasn't about that you'd be asking for premade vs premade options. You aren't, none of you "I just want to play with friends :(" people ever ask for that, instead you're asking to be able to roll up in a full premade against a group of randoms. Why? Because you don't want any challenge and just want to roll disorganized groups that don't stand a chance against your organized party full of people who are all in voice chat and able to communicate past extremely limited pre-written speech buttons.

I'd have some semblance of respect for you if you'd just admit this is what you truly want.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

"I want to play my friends :(" is code for "I want to steamroll a bunch of randos with a premade group". At least be honest about it.

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imagine wanting to win in a competitive environment

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

No. Stop being disingenuous. You want to roll randos. That's all you want. If it wasn't about that you'd be asking for premade vs premade options. You aren't, none of you "I just want to play with friends :(" people ever ask for that, instead you're asking to be able to roll up in a full premade against a group of randoms. Why? Because you don't want any challenge and just want to roll disorganized groups that don't stand a chance against your organized party full of people who are all in voice chat and able to communicate past extremely limited pre-written speech buttons.

I'd have some semblance of respect for you if you'd just admit this is what you truly want.

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I'd want the ability to coordinate with people. Instead of this Rngfest. If people want premades, fine, it's an mmo. If a person queues solo, they should do so with the assumption that they very well could end up out matched. Getting stomped by a premade feels so much better than getting stomped due to rng.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

No. Stop being disingenuous. You want to roll randos. That's all you want. If it wasn't about that you'd be asking for premade vs premade options. You aren't, none of you "I just want to play with friends :(" people ever ask for that, instead you're asking to be able to roll up in a full premade against a group of randoms. Why? Because you don't want any challenge and just want to roll disorganized groups that don't stand a chance against your organized party full of people who are all in voice chat and able to communicate past extremely limited pre-written speech buttons.

I'd have some semblance of respect for you if you'd just admit this is what you truly want.

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Stop assuming things about people.

I play this game almost exclusively with my wife. We do nearly everything except the msq solo duties together. I want to play with her. That's what I want to do.