Job action combos one button

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Originally Posted by Canadane

PvP too was also more engaging on the gameplay level before they did this.

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Again, though, you're conflating actions with buttons. Those changes did not just consolidate our actions. They reduced them by nearly half.

A HW PVP DRG, for instance, effectively had some ~20 real, separable actions (no, I do not count but one move per combo among those, as we'd still never rush or reset them even in PvP). It then added 5 further (much more interesting) PvP skills atop that, for a total of ~25.
Now, a PVP DRG has just 12 separable actions, and then just 2 (much less interesting) PvP skills, for a total of 14.

That pruning was in no small part because they felt the button counts were overwhelming. Had they just consolidated the bloat beforehand, that wouldn't have been an issue, nor an available excuse for action/decision pruning.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Again, though, you're conflating actions with buttons

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I am not.
Press 1-2-3 is inherently more fun than pressing 1-1-1. It doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated or a combo of skills, I very specifically am speaking of what the player is doing not the player character ingame is doing.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I am not.
Press 1-2-3 is inherently more fun than pressing 1-1-1. It doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated or a combo of skills, I very specifically am speaking of what the player is doing not the player character ingame is doing.

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Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I see nothing inherently fun about hitting a different button each step of the same decision.

I won't deny that there are probably others who would prefer that, say, Gnashing Fang, Savage Claw, Wicked Talon, Jugular Rip, Abdomen Tear, Eye Gouge, and Hypervelocity all took separate buttons, instead of just their current total of 2 keys. I just don't think you're anywhere near a majority and would rather not sacrifice actual complexity for a pretense thereof (our current unconsolidated combos).

Like Terin, I'd prefer real combos --that each skill in a given combo have real use, to be synergized meaningfully-- but if this is all we're getting from them, then I see no reason to force each player (or, each non-PC player) to waste that hotbar space or to hold back further job complexity just to keep room for our fake combos' fake complexity.

I hope they never do this, the combat is very engaging as it is don't dumb it down.
Actually pressing a lot of buttons is part of what makes it fun for me and sets it apart from most other MMO's.

People can dumb down how they describe rotations all they want, the fact still remains that yes pressing 1 2 3 is harder than spamming 1 especially when you add other stuff on top of it too and have the whole package and yes at least imo it's way more engaging too.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I see nothing inherently fun about hitting a different button each step of the same decision.

I won't deny that there are probably others who would prefer that, say, Gnashing Fang, Savage Claw, Wicked Talon, Jugular Rip, Abdomen Tear, Eye Gouge, and Hypervelocity all took separate buttons, instead of just their current total of 2 keys. I just don't think you're anywhere near a majority and would rather not sacrifice actual complexity for a pretense thereof (our current unconsolidated combos).

Like Terin, I'd prefer real combos --that each skill in a given combo have real use, to be synergized meaningfully-- but if this is all we're getting from them, then I see no reason to force each player (or, each non-PC player) to waste that hotbar space or to hold back further job complexity just to keep room for our fake combos' fake complexity.

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I wouldn't disagree that I'd like the combos to be more exciting.
But if it's between what we have now and turning it into like how it works in PvP then I'll take what we have now.
If we go with the premise however that they'd add more complexity to it then I might change my mind about it but I don't think that's really the premise of the thread.

I mean GNB Gnashing Fang combo already turned into 1 button, why not the rest? (Except MNK of course)

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Originally Posted by Raikai

They removed nearly every bloated action by now, everything we have and used in a rotational basis is useful... There's no bloat to cut anymore.

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No they haven't. They've introduced new bloat in this very expansion. Some examples? Shoha II, Orogeny, Crown Play/Minor Arcana and Abyssal Drain are all new EW buttons they have no reason to exist and could be baked into their single target equivalent with fall off percentage.

For old abilities they haven't yet pruned? Play/Draw, Senei/Guren, Shinten/Kyuten, Tsubame-gaeshi, Jump/Mirage Dive, Sonic Break/Bow Shock and Aetherflow/Energy Drain are all buttons they could be merged. Then you have abilities like Cure and Benefit which should just upgrade into their higher level equivalents as they're completely worthless above 50. On the newer side once more, RPR's Shadow of Death is essentially Heavy Thrust—a maintenance buff removed from Dragoon four years ago.

And yes, Samurai has a LOT of useless button bloat. As does Astro.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

For old abilities they haven't yet pruned? Play/Draw, Senei/Guren, Shinten/Kyuten, Tsubame-gaeshi, Jump/Mirage Dive, Sonic Break/Bow Shock and Aetherflow/Energy Drain are all buttons they could be merged. Then you have abilities like Cure and Benefit which should just upgrade into their higher level equivalents as they're completely worthless above 50. On the newer side once more, RPR's Shadow of Death is essentially Heavy Thrust—a maintenance buff removed from Dragoon four years ago.

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I'm not sure why we ought focus on removing AoE | ST options before combos. At least they provide a degree of choice (though less so when the ST option is only 10% stronger than the AoE, as per Bloodletter and Rain of Death, etc.), unlike separate combo GCDs.

But yes, they could certainly be replaced by conditional skills (defaulting to the AoE if shaped AoE check would include 2+ targets, and giving the ST animation and bonus damage if there's only one) with minimal (but still existent) loss to affordance, given that XIV so rarely has any use for focus damage over greater total damage.

Agreed on all other points.
___________

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Originally Posted by Raikai

They removed nearly every bloated action by now, everything we have and used in a rotational basis is useful... There's no bloat to cut anymore.

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Frequency of use doesn't determine bloat. Bloat is just a matter of (in)efficiency by which a function is afforded-- i.e., whether the given implementation offers decision-making of greater value than what would likely be possible if it used up fewer buttons (and something else, of average decision-making value for that kit, took up that space). If a given implementation offers zero further actual choices than another that would use up fewer buttons, that implementation is bloated.

If I made you do a 3-step mudra to cast Glare, you'd use up 3 additional buttons, but that Glare would still just be Glare and spammed just as repeatedly. (If the idea of using 4 buttons to do a single action attracts you, note that you could accomplish the same, right now, by binding Glare to 4 different keys and hitting those in order with each cast.) Those added buttons would be used very frequently -- each 23 times per minute -- but they'd still be entirely bloat.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Press 1-2-3 is inherently more fun than pressing 1-1-1. It doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated or a combo of skills

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Then bind Glare to 3 different keys and rotate, 1-2-3, through them. And just like that, your WHM play is "inherently more fun" now.

I neither press 1-1-1 nor 1-2-3 since I use macro for combos
e.g.
1-0-0
0 means idle

I don't mind it as a option
and putting the combo into 1 button isn't really comparable to healers
since DPS have loads of other buttons to press while healers its just 1 spell and a dot

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then bind Glare to 3 different keys and rotate, 1-2-3, through them. And just like that, your WHM play is "inherently more fun" now.

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If there's anything worse than doing a 1 button rotation is this argument. If I told you they were gonna give Savage loot for free the next patch upon talking to the NPC and people complained about it, do you think it's fair to say "Hey just pretend is still locked behind savage, and just like that nothing has changed, everyone is happy now"?

1-2-3 might not be the hardest most punishing thing out there, but it's something. At least it's a reason for three individual actions to still exist. You have a sequence of different commands and chaining them in a specific order gives you more damage. With 1-1-1-1-1, 3 different actions accomplish nothing, it's just visual padding. There to give players the impression your char still has some modicum of combat interaction when in reality replacing everything with an insta-cast generic "glare" would be the same thing.

I honestly rather keep my 1-2-3 over that.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

If there's anything worse than doing a 1 button rotation is this argument.

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Is there another way to read...

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Press 1-2-3 is inherently more fun than pressing 1-1-1. It doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated

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? Either hitting more buttons than is currently necessary is thereby "inherently more fun," or it is not.

But, fine, let us assume that the claim (1-2-3 being inherently more fun than 1-1-1 even when they have the same number of separable actions) carries an implied parameter -- that this only works "if forced (to 1-2-3, rather than 1-1-1)." We'll adjust the analogy:

You have Glare I, Glare II, and Glare III. Glare I does 290. Glare II does 310 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. Glare III does 330 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. The combo cannot be broken by actions, thereby retaining the old functionality, and over time they amount to the exact same ppgcd as before. They also have the same animation, since "it doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated."

Is that "inherently more fun" button-flow of now being obliged to go 1-2-3 worth the added button cost? Would you give up 2 existing actions, and therein kit control, for those extra two buttons to be spent on what still amounts to a single, inseparable decision?

That's essentially what's forced onto any combo-heavy kit right now.

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At least it's a reason for three individual actions to still exist.

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No series of actions as would be demarked by a PvP combo have ever each had more than one individual action, as there has never been any remotely viable reason to restart or rush a combo. But even consolidated, a combo still has just as many non-individual actions as before. Button count =/= action count.

Unconsolidated, a Chaos Thrust combo includes flat damage, a damage buff, and a DoT, flat damage, and flat damage with a Draconian Fire proc -- each on a respective action in its own GCD. Each action takes a button-press. The single path of action, however, takes 5 buttons.

Consolidated, a Chaos Thrust combo would include flat damage, a damage buff, and a DoT, flat damage, and flat damage with a Draconian Fire proc -- each on a respective action in its own GCD. Each action would take a button-press. The single path of action, however, would take only a single button.

Holding onto that pretense of complexity, as compared to actually making use of individual actions as per Monk or consolidating them as per the Gnashing Fang combo, is just bloat. Asking that every non-individual action, too, each get its own button is basically just giving the middle finger to anyone who wants more actual depth on a combo-based job.

Either make them individual actions (as on Monk) or make them individual decisions (as per Gnashing Fang).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Is there another way to read...? Either hitting more buttons that is currently necessary is thereby "inherently more fun," or it is not.

But, fine, let us assume that the claim implied that this only works "if forced." We'll adjust the analogy:

You have Glare I, Glare II, and Glare III. Glare I does 290. Glare II does 310 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. Glare III does 330 if comboed -- otherwise 100. The combo cannot be broken by actions, thereby retaining the old functionality, and over time they amount to the exact same ppgcd as before. They also have the same animation, since "it doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated."

Is that "inherently more fun" button-flow of now being obliged to go 1-2-3 worth the added button cost? Would you give up 2 existing actions, and therein kit control, for those extra two buttons to be spent on what still amounts to a single, inseparable decision?

That's essentially what's forced onto any combo-heavy kit right now.

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Combos that doesn't offer much isn't that much more fun. But, if you look at it from another perspective, say Lv 1-29:
Say you just have 1 button as your skill rotation, and only one button. From level 1 to 29.

Do you feel a sense of progression? Do you feel like anything has changed from Satasha to Hakkuke Manor? Nope. Now imagine you go to level 50 and your main rotation is still 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. All you're doing until then is just watching the enemy... dodging the mechanic... and then monotonously mashing the 1 key on auto-pilot until something new changes. You're not inherently have to spend brain power on the thought process - whether you're on the 2nd combo or whether you need to reset the combo because you're on the 3rd combo action. You just... press 1 until the fight's over.

Therein lies the difference between spamming Glare x100 and having a 3 button combo.

I completely agree with you - consolidating combo skills to create room for more INTERACTIVE skills and synergies will be great. However, that's not what was addressed on the thread. Nothing was mentioned about consolidating skills to make room for more interesting skills. In that case, it's more preferable to keep the current system with a 1-2-3 combo than without.

I can see it maybe for ninja and reaper but I couldn't see it work for monk, sam, and maybe drg. It would suck to lose the flexible rotation of sam and monk, for drg idk I like pressing 8 part combo cause it makes my brain active and I would probably lose my place for positionals.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Combos that doesn't offer much isn't that much more fun. But, if you look at it from another perspective, say Lv 1-29:
Say you just have 1 button as your skill rotation, and only one button. From level 1 to 29.

Do you feel a sense of progression? Do you feel like anything has changed from Satasha to Hakkuke Manor? Nope.

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I just wanna put my boomer pants on to remind the class that this literally was DRG in its original state. You pressed the exact same key, with no combo or positional check, until level 26. It was absolutely mind numbing to get any sync to that level on drg while leveling it, like if I did a roulette in leveling and got Halatali. It was already bad enough I got Halatali, now it's worse that my button line was reduced to a single key press.

Now, imagine that's it, like mentioned in the part I cut out. You're just gonna fall asleep. I know, because I fall asleep.

Play healer: One single button to push for each GCD and weave all the rest of your skills in between

Thinking having different buttons to press for the 1-2-3 combo is what makes a class interesting or hard honestly says a lot about y'all.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm not sure why we ought focus on removing AoE | ST options before combos. At least they provide a degree of choice (though less so when the ST option is only 10% stronger than the AoE, as per Bloodletter and Rain of Death, etc.), unlike separate combo GCDs.

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Because the combos offer some engagement, albeit it mildly so. At the very least, they break up the monotony of spamming the same button. AoEs don't provide any choice? They're entirely binary. You press Orogeny at 3+ targets; Upheaval otherwise. Any other decision is wrong. The difference is you hardly ever press the AoE equivalents in content that matters. So they hardly see use outside dungeons.

I've said before, if I thought they would replace combos with something new, be it several additional combos, new sequenced buttons or something. I'd be a lot more open to the idea. If it's literally just reducing say, Dragoon, to a job primarily spamming 1 and 2, I'd much prefer the current system.

I wish people would stop with the button "bloat" myth. There is no actual button bloat in this game. Most jobs don't have that many buttons. I had far more abilities on my bars on my priest back in Wrath of the Lich King than any current job in FFXIV. Blizzard thought this was a problem and strived to reduce "bloat". The result was mind-numbingly boring classes that play themselves.

Yes, there are some buttons that are not very useful. But if SE wants to remove buttons because they are "redundant" or something like that, then a replacement ability that is more useful needs to be added IMHO. If you want to play something braindead you already have a bunch of options. New SMN being a prime example of a one-button job. Knock yourself out.

TL;DR: Be careful what you wish for.

The one button combo set up is in PVP. I don't like it there and don't want it in the PVE. It throws my rotation off since I find it difficult to discern when in the rotation I am. With them across my keyboard, I know when I am simply by which finger and position I was on last. It's also physically easier, since it involves several fingers and positions, instead of repeatedly putting the load on one finger and position. Same when I'm on controller, I have mine set up to flow between engaging both hands somewhat. That's physically less taxing for me and the different motion pattern help me remember my rotation.

Hm... I think it's a matter of time until they do that, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
See, the thing people is scared about is condensing the 1-2-3 rotation into one button and everything else staying the same, but I feel condensing 1-2-3 buttons into one and adding new stuff to do that's not a 2 minute cooldown buff could be beneficial. Overall, the number of buttons stay largely the same, but you get to do more stuff with the same number of buttons.
Let's say you have your 1-2-3 condensed, then you can have combo buttons that can only be activated or get empowered while under step 1, step 2 or step 3. This would solve the issue healers have, because healers don't have different things to do to attack, they just have 1 button, not a condensed rotation.
RDM is a good example of this. After finishing your 1-2-3 combo, your spells flip and change to other type of spells: Instacast finishers. They feel much different from the original casted spells they substitute, and yet they don't add a single extra button to the rotation.
Using convertible "flip" spells can condense rotations greatly and still feel fun and nice to play. Heck, they could do that with 3 different buttons and make a more dynamic rotation. Something that feels closer to NIN's mudras.
Taking RDM as an example again, imagine Displacement and Engagement disappearing and being flip skills of Melee3 and Melee1 respectively. You can then add 2 more spells to the game and the number of buttons stays the same while still preserving everything the RDM had.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...889&height=613

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Play the jobs they like until they begin to ruin them by catering to people who shouldn't be even playing them, I will NEVER touch scholar and dark knight again.
Cleared week 1 btw.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Play the jobs they like until they begin to ruin them by catering to people who shouldn't be even playing them, I will NEVER touch scholar and dark knight again.
Cleared week 1 btw.

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Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

more buttons = being harder to play

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Yes, that's exactly right

This is already possible but my lips are sealed

And I would be 0% surprised if a lot of top players are already doing it

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...889&height=613

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I played PLD during week 1 clears this tier, and constantly had hardcore players openly criticizing my job choice in the final fight. If you spend time in hardcore communities, you will pretty frequently see top rank players equating playing certain jobs to griefing.

This meme was probably made by some weird casual player fantasizing about having something in common with hardcore players.

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Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

This is already possible but my lips are sealed

And I would be 0% surprised if a lot of top players are already doing it

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You don't need third party tools for that. Macros with action button swaps are perfectly doable in the game as is.
As such I'd like to have more macros, two hundred is not enough.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I played PLD during week 1 clears this tier, and constantly had hardcore players openly criticizing my job choice in the final fight. If you spend time in hardcore communities, you will pretty frequently see top rank players equating playing certain jobs to griefing.

This meme was probably made by some weird casual player fantasizing about having something in common with hardcore players.

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If you think you need to min max classes to kill week 1, you're just not good enough.

Being commited defines midcore, being good defines hardcore.

This was made by a multiple 100% parse NIN for two expansions that plays in a static that cleared P4S with a DNC and a SMN week 1, not by me. I'm just a casual that dwells around his hardcore gf, because I don't want to commit to PvE, but nah, you just mistake midcore tryhards for hardcore.

And the reason they don't care about classes is because the content is too easy right now to have to discriminate against some classes as long as you've got some top tier included. If a monk blames your choice to play PLD for the lack of DPS, he's just not good enough, and if you can't see that, you're just delusional. If you want to world first, or even do ultimate, sure, min max. But min maxing savage hard enough to exclude some jobs is the proof you're not a good enough player.

(Also, "you" defines the tryhards I'm speaking about, not you, Little Imp, I don't think you're bad or delusional, but certainly you know that this is stupid, since you play PLD in a meta that's against it)

Do people think that pressing 1-2-3 makes you more l33t than pressing 1-1-1?

It does not.

PLD damage is on par with warrior now btw

But the job still lacks a philosophy of use, or meta
Not as personally tanky as a warrior, has unnecessary group defense utility
And warriors shake it off is comically better than plod’s equiv so the job still feels a sense of WHY DID YOU CREATE ME GOD?!?

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

If you think you need to min max classes to kill week 1, you're just not good enough.

Being commited defines midcore, being good defines hardcore.

This was made by a multiple 100% parse NIN for two expansions that plays in a static that cleared P4S with a DNC and a SMN week 1, not by me. I'm just a casual that dwells around his hardcore gf, because I don't want to commit to PvE, but nah, you just mistake midcore tryhards for hardcore.

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I know plenty of people who regularly achieve 100 percentiles and participate in the WF race that strongly believe in min-maxing job comp. Opinions in hardcore circles tend to be just as diverse as any other segment of the game, and emphasizing the meta doesn't necessarily indicate that someone is somehow an inferior player.

If you're trying to pug the final fight week 1, you're usually going to end up in groups with players of varied skill levels. When your ability to clear is suddenly tied to your ability to overperform and make up for someone else's deficit, job choice can really start to feel like it matters. It doesn't matter how skilled you are in those situations, there are absolutely cases where "if I was playing x job, I would have already cleared this fight" can be unfortunately valid.

I've been burned by people caring about the meta, and really really don't care for it myself, but this meme just kind of generalizes and mischaracterizes.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I've been burned by people caring about the meta, and really really don't care for it myself, but this meme just kind of generalizes and mischaracterizes.

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We agree, then. The meme is a caricature, as they always are, you're not supposed to take them personnaly.

Of course, in PUG, composition matters, and of course you may need to swap if some players in your static underperform, what I mean, and what I used this meme for, is just mocking players that want everyone to follow the meta blindly and forget the fun people can choose to have. I respect hardcore players that do the world first race or whatever, but "hardcore players" that take 3 weeks to clear P4S with a perfect meta-compliant composition are just posers.

I don't care about those people, but let's be honest : if I can trigger them, I will, because I'm just bored of them trying so hard to prove they're better than others when they're just meta slaves with nothing to back them.

This only makes sense in pvp. Since they cut button bloat every expansion the need for one button combos in pve are unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

I respect hardcore players that do the world first race or whatever, but "hardcore players" that take 3 weeks to clear P4S with a perfect meta-compliant composition are just posers.

I don't care about those people, but let's be honest : if I can trigger them, I will, because I'm just bored of them trying so hard to prove they're better than others when they're just meta slaves with nothing to back them.

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Lmao fair enough; I know a 'week 1 clear' group that is either still on P3S or just started P4S this week, some 3 months after the tier launched. The arrogance of some groups is honestly baffling, but watching and interacting with them in limited doses can get pretty amusing sometimes.

At this point, just ask for auto play.
I mean, I know many players would love to Gpose auto play with their favorite trusts, it's just a matter of time before Yoshi P adds it to the game.

1-2-3 IS harder to do than 1-1-1.... of course only to a very very small degree. so small most people dont feel the difference.... but there is a difference. you need more movements with your hand, you need to think (even if its unconsciously) a little little bit more.

they streamlined many things over the years and while each of them make sense to streamline, if you look at the bigger picture it just makes it overall more boring. there abit of thinking less, and there a decision less and there two buttons less.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But, fine, let us assume that the claim (1-2-3 being inherently more fun than 1-1-1 even when they have the same number of separable actions) carries an implied parameter -- that this only works "if forced (to 1-2-3, rather than 1-1-1)." We'll adjust the analogy:

You have Glare I, Glare II, and Glare III. Glare I does 290. Glare II does 310 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. Glare III does 330 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. The combo cannot be broken by actions, thereby retaining the old functionality, and over time they amount to the exact same ppgcd as before. They also have the same animation, since "it doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated."

Is that "inherently more fun" button-flow of now being obliged to go 1-2-3 worth the added button cost? Would you give up 2 existing actions, and therein kit control, for those extra two buttons to be spent on what still amounts to a single, inseparable decision?

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Yes.
As I mentioned, it's not the actions ingame, it's the actions IRL.

Multiple actions comboing off a single button makes it feel more like a smartphone game where it's just tap to win, or some other rudimentary simplistic system. It's not fun, nor is it engaging to play.
You could be doing sick flips and attacks and spark fire from the heavens, but if you're just pressing a single button to make it all happen, why not just go play one of those dime-a-dozen anime gacha games instead?

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Glad to hear. If that is real, and we'll never know if it is.

You're still a tryhard that thinks having more buttons = being harder to play, and that's self-explanatory about what you know about quality class design.

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Just, a couple of factors I want to mention. The first, being regardless of difficulty stance, it is at minimum more engaging than the exact same single key press. BRD is so painfully boring to me, and I constantly just go so in habit of 1 that I miss my procs because of it. Yet, on DNC where it's literally LITERALLY just 2, I have no issue at all. It's strange how just a single extra key press fixes an entire problem for me.

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

I always wonder if the people asking for the single button, or dumbed down combos are the same people hunting and clicking with their mouse, or just leaving the default hotbar or both. I mean we're paying monthly for this and yet people don't want to invest a bit more in some of the many peripherals that would likely take their gameplay to the next level, or at least make the combos easier for them to execute. For an MMO of this type it's actually very simple, and lends itself very well to controller I'm told (I play M&KB). Invest in the tools that work for you, take time building a functional, efficient hotbar, and reap the rewards. Admittedly this game does a poor job with tutorials and doesn't really do much hand holding, however the level of customization is staggering and the information on how to do it is more so. Like Canadane said above, there's tons of free gacha games out there with that simple play style that some desire (and some of em look pretty good). XIV isn't for everyone and that's ok, and it's why there is choice.

ppl are way overexagerrating
as a controller player, I've always been a proponent of this
one button combo would be nice to free up more real estate on the primary hotbar so it would be "easier" to reach oGCDs that currently have to live on HOLD L1 + R2 or HOLD R2 + L1 bars by necessity because of space limitations.

It would still be necessary to weave oGCDs in between each press, no one is asking for one button to keep doing all your abilities... but one button combo would let me place more oGCDs closer together on the face buttons so it could be easier to weave them.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

And, as a second note, if you state there's absolutely no difference between different presses and same presses, then what's the problem? Shouldn't have any issues with the system as is, no? So then, why argue for something that doesn't actually change anything, no? Unless it does.

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Never said it's the same, tho, I said it doesn't make the classes less interesting or less complex to play, but do make it easier on the hands.

I could go all the way to make an "you're an ableist" argument about people with arthrosis or whatever, but I don't want to even go there, just... why are you all so masochistic that you actually want to make your life harder for the exact same result ? Don't pretend 1-2-3 combos are fun, so 1-1-1 combos surely won't be much less fun. The fun is in other parts of the gameplay, and again, the fact you can't see that says a lot about you.

Precisely, it says you're all jerking at your own reflection for being able to do 1-2-3, deny the actual button bloating on some classes, ask people to buy more complex controllers with more easily accessible buttons, while they might just not have the money for it, and so on. For the sake of the "fun" of something that's been a bore for 8 years. I just don't understand y'all, tbh, it's not even about tryhards anymore, you're just... weird.

Touch some grass, really.