Tell me you have no idea how healing in XIV works without telling me that you have no idea how healing in XIV works.Quote:
Originally Posted by UkcsAlias
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03-27-2022, 09:33 PMAzuri
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03-28-2022, 12:57 AMWaxSw2/4 healers have all of its non gcd heals for free and even some gcd heals too, the community did not do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Whm has to get extra piety bis to be able to attack as much as the others healers do, its not a "only when others make mistakes" issueQuote:
I play all healers and i still main white mage , now my MP problems only start to happen when people start to make mistakes
NO, absolutely no, healers from the very beggining and even irl are all about efficiency, you want to estabilize the situation while consuming the least resources possible so you can provide more to the group overall (thats why free healing is the king of the game and triage exist irl). That is only achieved through "dps more" mentality because that mentality is the only one that really analyze the situation and take oportunity cost into acount when executing a healing plan, the "saving" mentality is a trademark of bad healers that only leads to poor performance, overhealing and wasted resources.Quote:
your mindset should be more around "saving" people over "dps more" and thus is the problem
Which is exactly why the design of the current WHM and SCH is beyond dumb in EW, because while those have costs in their healing AST and SGE dont so that whole "I have to cut loses" situation doesnt happen as they both simply can heal without losing anything. There is a reason why WHM and SCH are the worst possible partners to SCH to the point even double Sage is prefered and thats because how they can't leech each other for healing like they do with Sge and Ast (and how underpowered Whm is).Quote:
Also people forget there is TWO healers in a raid so when looking at healers as a whole you NEED to combine the TWO healers in that raid
Having 2 healers with fully free kit and 2 with costs only leads to having a "main healer" and "off healer" situation when one of the two simply relies on the other healing the majority if not all the damage which is precisely the opposite of 2 healers working together and combining their cds. -
03-28-2022, 01:12 AMSilver-StriderYes, it's the community's fault. We designed the encounters that require Healer DPS to even clear at minimum ilvl. We're the ones that nerfed WHM's MP economy and gave it the weakest toolkit of all the healers. We're the reason ED has to exist because SCH's toolkit would die without it. We're the one that made all Healer's one button DPS rotations and share 80% of each other's toolkit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Screw this "blame the community" mentality. It has nothing to do with the meta/BIS/Parsing and more trying to salvage the crap we've been given to make the role engaging again.
Energy Drain is a crutch. SCH needs it in order for their toolkit to actually work in a somewhat cohesive way because without it, not only does their DPS suffer for it, skills like Dissipation and Aetherpact become much less useful due to how they function within the toolkit. Lilies have lost their primary purposes of granting Weave Windows/Mobility tech with the cast time changes, resulting in their other problem of being a DPS loss to be called into question even more so than before, not to mention the high costs of their other GCD heals and how they affect WHM's neutered MP economy. AST has a severe button bloat issue with superficial skills that honestly don't need to exist. Addersting are underwhelming and need more ways to generate so that SGE can actually have their mobility tool more readily available to them and having their MP economy directly tied to only healing results in a lot of unnecessary over healing in order to even sustain themselves for long periods of time.
These are problems created by SE that we as a community want to address so screw the argument that "it's the community's fault" because it isn't. -
03-28-2022, 01:42 AMAbdiAnoNo, there's nuance to "saving people" vs being a green DPS and I hate how people think this stuff is binary. If you're green DPS and you don't heal except for the bare minimum because you just want to let people die, and you're not in a static, then you're actively being unhelpful to the community because it's not just about stupid efficiency. Having been green to MMOs in general and XIV and over time experienced a wide breadth of XIV from tanking to healing to DPSing, all of which have their own faults.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxSw
When you're learning a fight, when you're new to content, laying dead on the floor isn't going to help you. When you're learning new savage raids, new fights, sacrificing DPS to learn more mechanics by keeping your DPS alive through mishaps (your healer DPS, and tank DPS, will not break thresholds unless you're going for guaranteed clears), being alive and actually doing the mechanics counts more than green healers going "muh efficiency."
Save the green DPS mentality for statics, or just play DPS if one is so reticent to actually realize that healing in the majority of content is about being the party watchdog. Just because your DPS value is high doesn't actually mean you're good at doing your job. -
03-28-2022, 01:53 AMWaxSwI think you simply dont really understand the "dps more" mentality if you really think is avoiding healing at all costs (That is simply not knowing a shit about efficiency and being stupid)Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdiAno
That mentality extents to the whole party and a dps death is a bigger lost than a gcd heal, this is also efficiency and ofc you try to save the party when shit hits the fan but there is a whole world of difference between the "saving" bad healer mentality of "a dps got hurt better to use cure 2 to get them up to 100%" and the "dps" mentality that makes you think first if that dps life is at risk and if its at risk what tools you have to heal them efficiently and prevent bigger loses.
This is not a static only stuff and one thing that should be kept only in coordinated groups, is stuff that any half decent healer does on a daily basis -
03-28-2022, 02:13 AMLiam_HarperYou don't seem to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdiAno
Most "green dps" are superior at healing and keeping the party alive than healbots. Yes, they're better at healing than the pure healers.
First of all, you can't "sacrifice" dps and let them die. If you let your party die, you'll wipe to mechanics. You have to keep your group alive at all times for max dps. A green dps generally won't even risk leaving people low when avoidable damage comes out, mistakes happen. Maximizing healer dps involves utilizing your entire healing toolkit, managing and mapping your oGCD resources carefully leaving as much GCD time as possible available for dealing damage. This requires extensive class knowledge.
Healbotting involves mashing GCD heals blindly over and over until health bars are full. If this doesn't work or the run goes messy, the healbot will panic and go headless chicken mode and people will die. They have no backup plan. They're very often terrible at real healing.
A good green dps is aware of every factor in the fight and can switch to GCD heals in an instant. Their burst and clutch healing is far more often on point, no panic, with the best options from the full toolkit.
When there's real damage or mess, you're far safer with a dps healer. -
03-28-2022, 02:56 AMRein_eon_Osborne
I'd like to know where is this wonderland people are playing at when they're cherished for being "uwu I will heal you cause I'm healer, that's my job uwu let people do the other legwork, dw, you're fine with me.".
Spoiler: you don't. That sort of play are just socially unacceptable because how easy it is to dish out damage while keeping your party alive. And it also happen to be the ONLY LEARNING CURVE healers get in most encounters outside reading their own tooltips. Once a healer gains an understanding of how each mechanic works, how severe the damage are, and developed a good enough intuition toward potential errors, it all comes down to planning & trying to execute it. The number of 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 keeps piling up, you probably have to buy a replacement for your nuke hotkey.
First of all, do us a favor and point us to a post that directly implies that healer mains are demanding every players they encounter in-game to perform everything at inhumanely perfection degree, because that is certainly not what the majority of healer mains are asking. There's a difference between that & discussing an optimized gameplay. If you try ask any decent main healers whether they should keep that SAM who made a mishap alive or not in high end contents for trying to greed that 1 GCD, they will almost definitely tell you to heal them because missing a participant in high end contents would more often than not lead to the party wiping. Your average raiders--casuals or hardcore--knows this very well, healers are not an exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdiAno
Second of all, any decent players knows not to expect perfection out of progression or 1st clear parties. This shouldn't even need any reminder at all, but here we are. /shrug
And people wonder why they're getting curebots/pure healers in 4th floor of savage tiers? The part that I bolded is precisely one of the biggest reason why you see those players getting carried for their clear indirectly after throwing bodies for weeks, potentially, for better or worse. Double standard is cruel. Why do you think those pugs were able to clear later floors in each tier within 1st week? Omitting healer DPS is certainly not one of them, and numbers never lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdiAno
Right! We should be sorry for trying to adjust what the devs had given to us... Oh wait...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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03-28-2022, 06:34 AMMortex
It’s always really easy too see what healer player actually poops himself while healing the party and what healer drink a coffee with one hand so he doesn’t fall asleep while he’s healing. Had 6 dungeon runs were all 6 healer in expert were poopers and after every single aoe used a aoe heal or didn’t do any kind of decent dmg. It’s just fun when people have zero clue what the job they plan can do but wanna tell the good healer players “if you want too dps go play dps” that’s on the same lvl as “if you like healing too be a challenge do go play ultimates “ just because people like a easy role for free carries.
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03-28-2022, 07:21 AMMiaShino
What the heck is with the anti-healer deeps mentality am seeing everywhere now?
Even in Swtorland will never forget our tank saying "I have come to accept you will heal me eventually". Find out later our guild leader was healbot extraordinaire and she had likely become accustomed to that. Never allowed her nor partner to parish. Also am remembering other guild member falling into single digits then loudly proclaiming "A fairy godmother saved me!" when I used my nuke to snapshot her back to full. You have 75k HP and each heal hits for 30k+, I understand two heals should suffice and that you will not take further damage within span on two gcds (most healing in Swtor is done via gcd). So I make plan, stabilize the tank with regen then spin around to burst heal the mercenary who also has defensive cooldowns and self sustain. Is this really so uncommon to do?
Entire fricken Scholar heck even Arcanist questline is about proper planning for every engagement then outwitting opposition with pure strategy. Whoooooole fricken Conjurer questline emphasizes importance of dealing damage whilst not relying on mana intensive skills such as raise. It does this by depicting Sylphie exhausted after failing to cast raise. Showing that not leaning on nature (Earth = Stone | Wind = Aero) she was draining her life force (mana) away.
First set of Scholar quests ends in confrontation of powerful Voidsent responsible for the Tonberry curse. Gradually you become aware of their affliction and how if only they predicted perhaps could have prevented before the loss of their magics. That final quest is culmination of this knowledge and your observational skills. Were you paying attention? Good because the Voidsent applies two minute debuff that must be cleansed else you fail the instance. You must anticipate this then be proactive in how you react.
One of first encounters with the Tonberries in Scholar quests takes you into instance duty. You are fighting the Tonberry who will constantly summon ads. Adlo spam is not enough should the ads reach critical mass, you will lose to attrition so must hmm.. do deeps? Kill the ads while occasionally healing the Lala, the game is prepping you on importance of switching between healing and damage.
First. Fricken. Astro quest has you retrieving what will become your deck of cards one by one. At the very very end there is NPC opponent who will summon powerful Voidsent. Did you know you can easily burst him down before the summoning? I hope so because if you did no damage here now you will be fighting large group of enemies and this hard hitting Voidsent. Quimperain can be easily overwhelmed here then experience demise, especially if you forgot about Essential Dignity. First quest!
Would think that those who defend FF14 so fervently and the dev team would at the least pay attention to message said dev team is sending. Or do some not remember any of this? -
03-28-2022, 07:25 AMShuuli
I honestly feel like scholar is the most well rounded healer atm. Not too complicated, not too dumb. Enough heal/ shiled/ mit and added utility at level 90.
I agree it might use some changes as some things are still wonky, but I would have never imagined after the original job showcase video, that I would love scholar and grown to hate summoner... -
03-29-2022, 06:52 AMMortexThe job (scholar) has still so many abilities that work in complete opposite how the job is design wise “played”. Dmg negative ogcd heals, dissipation killing the main job tool the fairy for 30 seconds for 300 dps potency gain just because it doesn’t buff ogcd heals, only gcd ones. Fairy ghosting or being unresponsive is still a really big problem (same with seraph). Expedient Being a good and still a meme skill at the same time ja also really funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuli