Why do people stop doing the MSQ roulette once they get all their jobs to 90?

What a silly question, the answer is only five words long:
"This scene cannot be skipped"

There is a certain balance how much annoyance one is willing to endure to get the reward they want. Some people can tolerate extreme amounts of boring mindless grind in MMOs just to get that nice piece of gear.
I can't really think of a game that is forever fun for no reason as you mention, they mostly all employ some rare achievements or collectables mechanic to give you goals and then it's idividual for a person how much they hate what they're doing and if it's worth it.
Some people don't mind the grind because the combat feels good, scenery/music is nice and the repetitiveness is relaxing.

PS I am never touching MSQ again tho

Mmm, there are plenty of games that remain engaging without collectables and the like. Minecraft is the most obvious example.

The reason MMOs and other persistent world games, often do this isn't, IMO, to keep people engaged or whatever, but to move around the playerbase. I.e., MSQ rewards to help new players so that there are people in the queue. Rewards for everything need to be balanced and leveled out so that the playerbase doesn't overkeel somewhere. There's a reason you see a lot of these things in online games, but not so much in single player ones.

Pretty much any game where there is no large amount of grinding for something is described by a lot of players as "lacking in content", even though that isn't really what content should mean.

Trusts exist, more options to level red dps with no queue waiting time.

Content can be both fun, rewarding, and someone can get tired of it. The three arent mutually exclusive. But thanks for the laughs

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

I don't know anyone who thinks MSQ roulette or FATEs are fun.

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I have more fun with zerg FATEs than doing "expert" roulette.

They said they are looking into those ARR instances. What does that mean we likely get to know during the live letter and/or 6.1. I just hope they didn't planned that for some later patch :P

I think I'd honestly question someone's sanity if they said they had fun doing MSQ roulette.

Outside of the very first time you do castrum/prae, it's probably the worst bit of content in the entire game. They should just change them into one time solo instances and get rid of the roulette entirely tbh.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I think I'd honestly question someone's sanity if they said they had fun doing MSQ roulette.

Outside of the very first time you do castrum/prae, it's probably the worst bit of content in the entire game. They should just change them into one time solo instances and get rid of the roulette entirely tbh.

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They should wait to do that til I've got all my jobs at level 90 ;P /hj

For me it’s the extreme scripted play style in dungeons, it just gets boring after a couple of times, In other mmorpg I did keep playing the content but that was because u could get good drops in that content like gear and gold mattered.

Ffxiv is the first mmorpg in which I have no use for the Gil and don’t need any of the gear that drops in the end content, I just pass all. I do grind tomes now but the most efficient way is just do smileton over and over it’s with a good group a below 10 minutes run and i can dream every mechanic.

If there was a remote change there could drop something very rare and powerful from 90 dungeons for example I def would do them more.

Roulette? I only do them for the rewards they lured me to bite.

MSR gave crapload of EXP, but those EXP are going nowhere at lv90. Game literally rains you with poetic; 500-600 poetics isn’t really impressive considering that I personally have very little use out of them at this point (All relics cleared, no more alt jobs to gear, piled up shitton of grade 3 topsoils).

I did ran minimum ilv prae & castrum with my group of friend. It was all fun except the unskippable cutscenes.

I am actually amazed to see such question and considering it - I'd have to be suicidal masochist to run MSQ roulette without any reliable income out of it aaaand having every job on lvl 90 it is pointless to suffer so for any reason one could come up with.

Why stop farming xp once you don't need xp anymore?
Is that even a question?

If this question is being asked seriously, then it's because the rewards for running it aren't enough if you don't need the EXP from it and this community values efficient game grind above all else. The other side is that for some people like myself most jobs do not have enough of their kit at level 50 to be any kind of real fun. Since they have taken to pruning and redesigning some jobs every expansion almost all jobs have next to nothing on their hot bar at level 50, so running a very long dungeon like the two in the MSQ roulette aren't engaging or fun in any real way.

I mean you have a point on things like Eureka and Bozja because the devs were abysmal about future proofing there but people cycle out of the other content and it stays populated as others cycle in so we can engage with what we want for the rewards we want and then move on to something else.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

is it really experiencing the content if you do it with a massive echo, completely nerfed and with a tiny amount of people or even solo?
I could understand it if all you cared about is the rewards for doing that content, but is that really the kind of mentality we, as the FFXIV community, want to foster among our players?

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Yes.

P.S. I like the MSQ roulette.

How does one keep decade old content interesting after it's been seen a million times, especially when said content has been power crept to hell and the jobs have become so backloaded in terms of their toolkit that they have basically nothing at lower levels?

The entire leveling experience is awful in this game. Some jobs at level 50 play so poorly that I don't blame people for skipping it all with boosts any more. Shame they miss the story but when the leveling experience is as bad as it currently is, I understand it.

MSQ roulette is not fun, and was never fun. I'm glad I got all my jobs to 90 now, so I never have to run that again. When I got praetorium it was nice because I could do something else during cutscenes, but evey time it was castrum and I knew I wasn't going to get the good exp I had a sinking feeling in my stomach and I hated the game a bit more. They need to completely remake those 2 dungeons and make them either normal short dungeons or done singleplayer with trusts, so they can delete that roulette and free players from feeling forced to do garbage content for exp.

it would be nice if they were beefed up and made so that they can't be cheesed as easily/have actually fun mechanics at the very least. i don't know a single person who actually enjoyed doing them even before the cutscenes were enforced because everyone's first experience since ARR went the exact same way where their entire party sprints past the and the poor sprout is left with 500 angry garleans stabbing them 50 times a picosecond.

Too many whiners about “you left Castrum ree”

Main Story Roulette specifically I hate. Once I got all my jobs to 80 before Endwalker came out, I made a promise to myself to never play that awful roulette again. And I haven’t. And I never will. And I’m happier this way. Also I don’t like Bozja. It’s ugly.

As for why people stop playing for everything else? I dunno. I like the rest of the game though.

I mean I generally agree, though I also see the value in a structure based around rewards because getting things for effort is nice, but uh... The dungeons in MSQ roulette in particular are pretty much the most badly designed dungeons in the game, and the devs know it. There's a reason no other dungeon has been designed with 30+ minutes of cutscenes in it and why the rewards are so stupid good. They've even said they want to rework them but just haven't gotten around to it yet. So that specific example is a case where the devs definitely and overtly made a bad choice in design and slapped a bandaid on it lol

Are the MSQ dungeons actually poorly designed vs just being undertuned on purpose? I don't see anything wrong with them if they were more difficult.

*Looks at OP's post vs their actual argument in a reply*
And this kids is why we always state our thesis statement in a clear, concise manner. XD

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

Are the MSQ dungeons actually poorly designed vs just being undertuned on purpose? I don't see anything wrong with them if they were more difficult.

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The absurdly long cutscenes in group content is what makes them poorly designed.

Extremely simple:

Rewards aren't worth the time invested.

7 pages and no one has done this yet??

"Tell me, for whom do you fight?

How very glib.
And do you believe in Eorzea?

Eorzeas’ unity is forged on falsehoods. Its city-states are built on deceit, and its faith is an instrument of deception. It is naught but a cobweb of lies - to believe in Eorzea is to believe in nothing. In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon Gods to fight in their stead.

Though your comrades only rarely respond in kind - which is strange, is it not? Are the twelve otherwise “engaged”? I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them your guardians, why do you not repeat the trick that served you so well at Carteneau, and call them down? They will answer, so long as you lavish them with crystals and gorge them on aether. Your Gods are no different from those of the beasts - eikons, every one. Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzeas faith is bleeding the land dry. Nor is this unknown to your masters, which prompts the question - why do they cling to these false deities?

What drives even men of learning - even the great Louisoix - to grovel at their feet? The answer? Your masters lack the strength to do otherwise! For the world of man to mean anything, man must own the world. To this end, he hath fought ever to raise himself through conflict, to grow rich through conquest. And when the dust of battle settles, it is ever the strong who dictate the fate of the weak. Knowing this, but a single path is open to the impotent ruler - that of false worship. A path which leads to enervation and death. Only a man of power can rightly steer the course of civilization. And in this land of cReEpInG mEnDaCiTy, that one truth will prove its salvation. Come, champion of Eorzea, face me! Your defeat shall serve as proof of my readiness to rule! It is only right that I should take your realm, for none among you has the power to stop me!"

If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what does. I put it in Comic Sans to try to spice it up, but it does nothing, does it? No one wants to hear Gaius's speech any more than they need to, seeing the same floors of PotD/HoH gets tiresome, and most people slammed through CLL/Dalriada to get what they wanted and they don't want to have to deal with it any longer. Same with Delubrum. I ran it over 100 times for my weapons and to get mounts/hair/low rarity things. I don't want to see it again because I'm tired of it. I ran msq roulette a ton getting all my classes to 80, and I run it when mogtomes come back if there's nothing faster (like last time with blu runs of T2.) It doesn't mean I like it, it means I want something and I'll go the fastest route to get it. If I never see msq roulette again it would be nice, but I know that's not the case, so I limit my time in there so I don't lose my dang mind from how boring it is.

I mean, the cutscenes were skippable at one point. They were made unskippable due to the behavior of the playerbase. Otherwise, inherently, I don't see the problem with them.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

"Tell me, for whom do you fight?

How very glib.
And do you believe in Eorzea?

Eorzeas’ unity is forged on falsehoods. Its city-states are built on deceit, and its faith is an instrument of deception. It is naught but a cobweb of lies - to believe in Eorzea is to believe in nothing. In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon Gods to fight in their stead.

Though your comrades only rarely respond in kind - which is strange, is it not? Are the twelve otherwise “engaged”? I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them your guardians, why do you not repeat the trick that served you so well at Carteneau, and call them down? They will answer, so long as you lavish them with crystals and gorge them on aether. Your Gods are no different from those of the beasts - eikons, every one. Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzeas faith is bleeding the land dry. Nor is this unknown to your masters, which prompts the question - why do they cling to these false deities?

What drives even men of learning - even the great Louisoix - to grovel at their feet? The answer? Your masters lack the strength to do otherwise! For the world of man to mean anything, man must own the world. To this end, he hath fought ever to raise himself through conflict, to grow rich through conquest. And when the dust of battle settles, it is ever the strong who dictate the fate of the weak. Knowing this, but a single path is open to the impotent ruler - that of false worship. A path which leads to enervation and death. Only a man of power can rightly steer the course of civilization. And in this land of cReEpInG mEnDaCiTy, that one truth will prove its salvation. Come, champion of Eorzea, face me! Your defeat shall serve as proof of my readiness to rule! It is only right that I should take your realm, for none among you has the power to stop me!"

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Pathetic. You were entrusted with the ultimate speech! The ultimate copypasta! So much for the glory of the forums.

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

I mean, the cutscenes were skippable at one point. They were made unskippable due to the behavior of the playerbase. Otherwise, inherently, I don't see the problem with them.

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You don't see a problem with a dungeon that was designed with 3/4ths of a 40 minute run consisting of cutscenes that, when skippable required up to 7 people to wait for literally 30+ minutes doing absolutely nothing for even worse rewards than we have now regardless of how many times they've been there if somebody was new and wanted them to wait, and if skipped could result in people being left behind or lost and also apparently could force progress cutscenes so they cut each other off? From the outset that was a terrible idea and was absolutely never going to go any differently than it did. I mean, people don't even like waiting 2 minutes for the cutscene at the last boss of Tower.

Making them unskippable fixed the problems with screwing over newbies who actually wanted to watch the climax of the ARR main story, but now we have a boring snoozefest of a dungeon so easy and so full of huge chunks of literal afk tab out non-content that you can literally have half the group afk the entire time and lose maybe like, a minute of time out of the 40 the dungeon takes.

The MSQ dungeons should have been solo dungeons from the start.

Anyway, my disdain for Prae's design aside, I agree content should he designed to be fun and have some replay value to begin with, but rewards also do extend the time people spend on the content regardless of how fun it is the first one or the first fifty times you do it. Roulettes being active means faster queues for the people who are on run one, and the rewards mean a reason to be there for the folks on run 3884848. So. Yeah.

I don't believe it makes it an inherently poorly designed dungeon is my point. "Is it fun if you do it over and over and over" is not the only criteria. Nor is "is it fun when done alongside this slice of the playerbase". "Inherently" means exactly that - the locations themselves, the mobs, the interactions, etc. With those, I see nothing wrong. The first few times I've done the dungeons, I thought they were pretty cool. I still like the music. After it got boring, or if I didn't feel like devoting the amount of time, I stopped doing them. XP and tomestones can be gotten elsewhere.

People get angry at them because they're doing something they seem to actively dislike for a reward that isn't even uniquely acquired there. Their constant optimization for best reward makes them lose the forest for the trees but they blame anyone but themselves. That's a basic self-control problem, and I am tired of excusing it just because it's so common among loud people. Don't like it, don't run it. Think cutscenes suck and people shouldn't get to watch them, don't run it. Why the heck are you even in that dungeon at all if for any reason other than to get a bit of reward in exchange for letting a new person experience it?

Gaming culture around certain things simply sucks, and it's the culture that sucks, not the games, and the whole "well it was always going to work out that way" is not true and is relinquishing the responsibility you bear for said culture.

I do maybe 1 or 2 expert roulettes a week

other than that i barely touch them lol

theres no need to, you can get your weekly tomestone cap with hunts very easily

I think we're talking past each other a little. I like cutscenes. I don't skip them on my first run. I was that newbie who got left behind and lost on my first Prae run because I watched the first two cutscenes before I realized nobody else was.

My point is that designing content that requires 8 people to agree on whether multiple very long cutscenes should be skipped or not was a poor choice. It requires 8 people to agree to wait, or however many new people to give up on watching the story and skip. It also relies on new people actually wanting to watch the cutscenes anyway, because some people willingly skip all of the cutscenes and aren't interested in watching them anyway even if they've never seen them.

You can't account for all behavior obviously, but something like the mess of Prae pre MSQ roulette - the skipping, the pressuring to skip, the frustration for both sides of the cutscene skip / wait debate - should not have come as a surprise to the devs.

I'm leveling all the jobs to 90. You can bet once I'm done with that, I won't be touching most of the roulettes anytime soon. I'll find something else to do or take a break from the game.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Same with people who stop doing ocean fishing once they get their World-Class Troller title
or people who stop doing potd when they get their Necromancer title

Isn't this sort of content (roulettes, side content, deep dungeons) supposed to be insanely fun and done only for the sake of playing the game? Why do people stop doing it once they get their rewards?
Only place I've ever seen this behavior was in looter shooter games like Warframe and Destiny and wow and it is a pervasive problem of content not being future proofed.

Same goes for bozja and eureka, I believe castrum lacus litore died on the same patch it was released and required multiple buffs over the course of 5.x patches to make it populated, and same goes for delubrum reginae savage, which was dead 1 week after its release.

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What is the point? Is there anything beyond level 90? This ain't Ragnarok Online/FFXI.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Same with people who stop doing ocean fishing once they get their World-Class Troller title
or people who stop doing potd when they get their Necromancer title

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The point of doing hard content is generally "keep trying and failing until you overcome the challenge and complete it successfully". Now you're done. You beat it and earned the prize, whatever it was – possibly just the satisfaction of having done it and seeing it ticked off in your game to-do list. You don't need to keep trying to beat the thing you already beat.

Those kind of achievements aren't even really in the same class of activity as running dungeons, because they're a test of personal skill, while levelling is essentially time in -> EXP out. Challenge versus grind. Ideally you're getting enjoyment along with that grind, but the different enjoyment of reaching the level you're aiming to reach might make you willing to invest time in less enjoyable things to get there. But once you're there, you're done.

Personally I don't get much enjoyment out of Prae itself but I do like being able to leave the game to rack up some free EXP while I go cook dinner or do housework, or write overlong forum essays.

(And no, the game should not play itself all the time. But it's okay for it to give one chunk of free EXP that way sometimes.)

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Why do people stop doing the MSQ roulette ?

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Just like that...

Replaying for the 100th time, all the cinematics of the MSQ dungeon for a total duration of 45 min, I have better things to do.

It's only worth it in one case, like farming a particular type of tomestone for a relic.

It's 3x more rewards for 5x more boring.

Also the reward of other types is not worth the time invested in it.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

once they get all their jobs to 90 ?

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After doing it once to advance in the MSQ for the main job you mean?

Because well, you don't need it for leveling alt job.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Same with people who stop doing ocean fishing once they get their World-Class Troller title
or people who stop doing potd when they get their Necromancer title

Isn't this sort of content (roulettes, side content, deep dungeons) supposed to be insanely fun and done only for the sake of playing the game? Why do people stop doing it once they get their rewards?
Only place I've ever seen this behavior was in looter shooter games like Warframe and Destiny and wow and it is a pervasive problem of content not being future proofed.

Same goes for bozja and eureka, I believe castrum lacus litore died on the same patch it was released and required multiple buffs over the course of 5.x patches to make it populated, and same goes for delubrum reginae savage, which was dead 1 week after its release.

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First off, the MSQ roulette is literally just so that new players will be able to go through the msq, so the exp reward is literally the only reason I do it.

In my experience, castrum lacus litore never died, and the buffs just made it harder to get in. DR savage also stayed active enough until the end of ShB (and I expect more groups will go for it after the new expac tasks dies down...BA in eureka is getting popular again).

Also, there are always going to be people who only want the rewards. There will also be people who do things for the reward, and then do it again on occasion because it is fun

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Originally Posted by Colter_Hildibrand

First off, the MSQ roulette is literally just so that new players will be able to go through the msq, so the exp reward is literally the only reason I do it.

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And to be perfectly honest, that can be fixed quite easily by migrating the Trust system down to some of the lower-level MSQ-required dungeons, in particular these two. Don't make it with known NPCs, make it manifest just 7 other completely randomized NPCs (appearance, gear, etc, with jobs selected randomly within the constraints of the correct role balance).

Bam, no need for special roulette devoted just to those two 30-60m dungeons, with unskippable cutscenes no less so sprouts can watch them without pressure, and with massively ratchetted-up rewards to try to get vets to tolerate that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

Same with people who stop doing ocean fishing once they get their World-Class Troller title
or people who stop doing potd when they get their Necromancer title

Isn't this sort of content (roulettes, side content, deep dungeons) supposed to be insanely fun and done only for the sake of playing the game? Why do people stop doing it once they get their rewards?
Only place I've ever seen this behavior was in looter shooter games like Warframe and Destiny and wow and it is a pervasive problem of content not being future proofed.

Same goes for bozja and eureka, I believe castrum lacus litore died on the same patch it was released and required multiple buffs over the course of 5.x patches to make it populated, and same goes for delubrum reginae savage, which was dead 1 week after its release.

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Because people have different standards for what they consider fun. You might think that replaying the same thing over and over again with no reward behind it fun, but me for example, I don't.

I'd consider this:

Clear for story or 1st time completion purposes > Re-clear to grind currency for a reward > Re-clear for a rare loot drop

I also like to replay to perfect my run (less deaths, less mess ups), but this already happens when trying to achieve the 3 objectives above.

After I'm done with everything, I'd be also probably sick of seeing that specific instance for a LONG time.