Petion to add a 7min invincibility to S Ranks upon their spawn.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Neither behavior was ever punished despite dozens of people reporting the guilty parties.

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You said so yourself, its not actionable, so having an added timer on the area will only keep that area further congested. Its already troublesome having to go to certain areas while an S rank is there because you can barely load in due congestion, if not worse. And having people hogging an area for 5-7 extra minutes due the time? No way.

While it is true that "early" pulls cannot be flagged as griefing, stuff like deliberately positioning the hunts to kill other players or despawning the SS rank minions definitely could, which is what I was referring to.

And as has been gone over at length, the "first come first serve" design the devs intended doesn't work when in the current state of things it's punishing the players who are putting in the effort to spawn the hunts.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

How is it griefing when its a first come/serve?

You dont own S ranks, nobody owns S ranks and nobody's getting other players killed over it, so not actionable.

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That attitude is kind of ignoring the reality that every MMO develops a community and culture in-game...complete with etiquette that is tailored to making the game's more frustrating aspects more tolerable to everyone.

I don't indulge variations on "me first" mentality. It might hold water if XIV were a PvP game, but it isn't and is pretty much directly antithetical to XIV's design philosophy and appeal.

And yeah, any actions taken by players that disrupt community-driven content (whether by design or by meta) is only going to be one of two things. Either it is ignorance, which is understandable for newer players. Or it is aware but self-absorbed or malicious, in which case it definitely is griefing. Perhaps not actionable, but not everything needs to be actionable to be dbaggery...

Also: I like this idea. Totally for it. Would probably encourage more players to participate knowing that they won't get sniped before they can teleport over, and overall better social cohesion.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

How is it griefing when its a first come/serve?

You dont own S ranks, nobody owns S ranks and nobody's getting other players killed over it, so not actionable.

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So you think people who do the work of spawning them shouldn't get to reap the rewards of that work? What are you, a Fortune 500 CEO?

10 minute timer upon spawn would be better, it woudl give people the chance to hop to the world as we...

Same tendency is seen by a few rotten eggs on the Light DC EU as well

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

I know who he's talking about, from when I was playing on Crystal -- and this guy is griefing. He admits to it in shout chat all the time, the GMs just don't care.

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We had a guy like that on Behemoth, we essentially ostracized him from all groups.

No invites, and blacklisted.

Not around much anymore.

Re invincibility timer: Not a fan of massive ones. Perhaps 1-3 minutes. I honestly don't care about people from other servers trying to clog up ours just to get an S rank. We have certain community standards they might not share. Seen more than one world hopper come in and pull immediately.

I am all for it, might start participating in hunts again if they did something like this.

The simple action of pulling a hunt mob is obviously not an actionable thing but when you are doing so with the sole purpose of harassing and angering an entire datacenter then i think it should be.

My idea is instead of S ranks spawning instantly maybe we get a "A powerful presence looms..." message and then the hunt mob will spawn like five minutes afterwards. Gives people some time to arrive to the zone before it actually spawns.

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Originally Posted by Apeman

The simple action of pulling a hunt mob is obviously not an actionable thing but when you are doing so with the sole purpose of harassing and angering an entire datacenter then i think it should be.

My idea is instead of S ranks spawning instantly maybe we get a "A powerful presence looms..." message and then the hunt mob will spawn like five minutes afterwards. Gives people some time to arrive to the zone before it actually spawns.

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That honestly sounds better then having an invulnerability window as it would almost completely remove any advantage the third party programs provide.

Ive been saying for years there needs to be hunt health scaling. The more people that hit it the more health and armor it gets up to a certain value. The fact that arr S ranks get deleted in milliseconds of callout is bs for old and new players.

that's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

So you think people who do the work of spawning them shouldn't get to reap the rewards of that work? What are you, a Fortune 500 CEO?

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Im someone who doesnt want to be held hostage in an area because the hunt train has to wait 5 minutes there, so i cannot go to X area because of congestion.

I don't see how this would help in anyway. Yeah, it sucks that someone when someone pulls before you can even get there, but it's not against the ToS.

I don't think SE designed hunts with the intention of having the entire Data Center being there to kill them. It's already difficult enough trying to get into a zone as it is whenever an S-rank or world boss is up, or a hunt train going on. I'm not looking forward to when they cut the instance servers back down to 1. Giving people 7 minute will not allow you get there any easier when an instance is already at maximum capacity. They could give the S-rank a 30 minute invulnerability and you'll still be stuck in the wrong instance the entire time and miss out.

Honestly, they should just make it so you can only get credit for defeating hunts if you're from that world. That would cut down on congestion and stop the issue people missing out because someone pulled while they were frantically clicking on the aetherite trying to switch instances.

Or, just make S Rank becomes unhuntable by off-worlders. Same deal with the fact that off-worlders cannot go after spoiled nodes if it is not in their homeworld: those nodes just refuse to spawn for them in other worlds.



Just like Firmament. When it was first launched, people from other crowded worlds flocked to less-populated worlds, preventing native people from even doing their own events. Excuses like "off-worlders help low-pop to progress Firmament faster!" didn't hold a candle at all cuz many crafters/gatherers were after skyscript rewards and compete for Firmament contribution ranking table, so how preventing them from doing the contents of their own worlds help?


Something rare and hard to spawn like S rank should benefit native people first and foremost. By making S Rank become unhuntable for off-worlders, you will prevent off-worlders from congesting the world where the S Rank spawns in, both in world queue and teleport queue. And you don't have to worry about lacking of hunting population to kill the S Rank: native people should be more than enough.

I'm fine with a short invincibility timer on S ranks.

I would have been against it in the past, but with fairly widespread use of 3rd party tools to find them before the people spawning them can, it seems a fair compromise.

I'm against an invincibility. That would also be against the intention of the hunt content. Of course it's annoying if you miss a hunt. But it cannot be the solution to try to force rule changes just because of that.

In my opinion the vast majority of "hunters" (A or S ranks) isn't really there for the content but just and solely for the rewards. The content itself doesn't really matter to them. I myself therefore think a lot of such "suggestions" could also be seen as selfish and that they are only made so that first and foremost the person who made the "suggestion" is the one who profits. Everyone else doesn't matter. Because they think they are entitled to get to every hunt. And it is too easy of an excuse to justify that with the statement that it would not just benefit them but all people. It is clear that of course everyone else who feels entitled will benefit from this. And because the majority feels entitled to the rewards and would try everything to get what they feel entitled to they of course would agree with that "suggestion".

Also, in my opinion the introduction of cross world traveling was the worst that could happen to the hunt content.

I would love this change. I think 5 minutes is plenty though. And just for S ranks, obviously =)

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Originally Posted by ACE135

I'm against an invincibility. That would also be against the intention of the hunt content. Of course it's annoying if you miss a hunt. But it cannot be the solution to try to force rule changes just because of that.

In my opinion the vast majority of "hunters" (A or S ranks) isn't really there for the content but just and solely for the rewards. The content itself doesn't really matter to them. I myself therefore think a lot of such "suggestions" could also be seen as selfish and that they are only made so that first and foremost the person who made the "suggestion" is the one who profits. Everyone else doesn't matter. Because they think they are entitled to get to every hunt. And it is too easy of an excuse to justify that with the statement that it would not just benefit them but all people. It is clear that of course everyone else who feels entitled will benefit from this. And because the majority feels entitled to the rewards and would try everything to get what they feel entitled to they of course would agree with that "suggestion".

Also, in my opinion the introduction of cross world traveling was the worst that could happen to the hunt content.

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TIL Rewards are not content and therefor should be removed from hunts entirely so that people will just get to enjoy the sense of pride and accomplishment of spawning and killing a target. :thinking:

No thanks. Just get there sooner.

One thing I hated about my time in Eureka was the "Wait for me!" mentality when people who took no part in spawning a specific mob decided they should be privy to it. I would frankly make a similar distinction of Hunts, further acknowledging that those that just randomly spawn are tapping into the idiocy some of us tried to get away from in XI.

Make all Hunts forced spawned. Hell, repurpose the Guildhest system for it. Trains shouldn't be required. One guy shouldn't be able to ruin it for everyone. Making people wait isn't fun, either. So, while I'm all about giving the open world more meaning, Hunts haven't achieved that. At least, not in a meaningful way.

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Originally Posted by Espon

I don't think SE designed hunts with the intention of having the entire Data Center being there to kill them.

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Then they shouldn't have instituted an achievement for a mount that required 3000 freaking kills of mobs that aren't always up and only appear during special circumstances.

That's Korea-esque style of game design.

real problem isn't even the hunts it's that the atherytes go on strike any more then 5 people try to teleport at once. Honestly whoever approved the nonsense the atherytes scribbled on a bar napkin after drinking to much one night as a union contract really dropped the ball

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Originally Posted by ACE135

I'm against an invincibility. That would also be against the intention of the hunt content. Of course it's annoying if you miss a hunt. But it cannot be the solution to try to force rule changes just because of that.

In my opinion the vast majority of "hunters" (A or S ranks) isn't really there for the content but just and solely for the rewards. The content itself doesn't really matter to them. I myself therefore think a lot of such "suggestions" could also be seen as selfish and that they are only made so that first and foremost the person who made the "suggestion" is the one who profits. Everyone else doesn't matter. Because they think they are entitled to get to every hunt. And it is too easy of an excuse to justify that with the statement that it would not just benefit them but all people. It is clear that of course everyone else who feels entitled will benefit from this. And because the majority feels entitled to the rewards and would try everything to get what they feel entitled to they of course would agree with that "suggestion".

Also, in my opinion the introduction of cross world traveling was the worst that could happen to the hunt content.

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It's mostly the people who actually engage with the system by spawning/scouting for hunts who want change because right now they're at the biggest risk of missing out over the folks who just sit around by the aetherytes waiting for relays to go out (Who incidentally are the ones who keep parroting that the system is fine).

The truly entitled ones are the people who use the hunting apps and accuse the spawners of "gatekeeping" or otherwise being the bad guys because they were giving each other relay priority over the rest of the bunch until the apps made that virtually impossible.

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

real problem isn't even the hunts it's that the atherytes go on strike any more then 5 people try to teleport at once. Honestly whoever approved the nonsense the atherytes scribbled on a bar napkin after drinking to much one night as a union contract really dropped the ball

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It's this coupled with the sheer number of people trying to cram themselves into instances that's the problem.

It wasn't as bad back in Shadowbringers due to the hunt sniffers being more niche instead of mainstream, though I think the instance queues were also more lenient in terms of how often/how many they'd let in at a time.

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Originally Posted by Zoner

Our server has a problem with a certain person that already has all the Hunt Achievements intentionally pulling early to impede other plays progress, that has been going on for months despite having been reported to GMs and such.

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I wholeheartedly agree and support the idea of a safe duration for players to gather and group up after the mark spawn. The whole idea of an S-mark hunt is for players to help in spawning it and then gather up to kill it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be having much hp

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

The whole idea of an S-mark hunt is for players to help in spawning it and then gather up to kill it. Otherwise, it wouldn't be having much hp

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To gather up with as many as it takes to kill it. Not with the whole server or data center.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

To gather up with as many as it takes to kill it. Not with the whole server or data center.

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But not to early-pull in the same minute.

Having a pre-defined grace period before a S rank spawns after its condition is fulfilled or before it can be attacked after spawning would largely remove any complaints about things being pulled "early" and make things more fair for the people actively involved in spawning hunts. Any arguments against such tend to just come across as selfish to me, honestly.

It seems like an easier solution then trying add some kind of dynamic scaling to hunts to keep them from dying too quickly, though I'd find that preferable because I like having an actual fight instead of a pinata that gets smashed before it can even do a single mechanic sometimes. The Bozja FATE bosses do exist as a pre-established example of how dynamic scaling on an already spawned enemy can work however, as they gain a damage taken debuff if the FATE scaling is high but there are way less players present then expected from the scaling (Though why haven't given this to FATEs in general is anyone's guess). The S rank HP pool seems tuned with 24 players in mind, so they could give it a defense buff that scales to 50% damage taken with 48 players present, 25% if there's 96, etc.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

Or, just make S Rank becomes unhuntable by off-worlders. Same deal with the fact that off-worlders cannot go after spoiled nodes if it is not in their homeworld: those nodes just refuse to spawn for them in other worlds.

Just like Firmament. When it was first launched, people from other crowded worlds flocked to less-populated worlds, preventing native people from even doing their own events. Excuses like "off-worlders help low-pop to progress Firmament faster!" didn't hold a candle at all cuz many crafters/gatherers were after skyscript rewards and compete for Firmament contribution ranking table, so how preventing them from doing the contents of their own worlds help?

Something rare and hard to spawn like S rank should benefit native people first and foremost. By making S Rank become unhuntable for off-worlders, you will prevent off-worlders from congesting the world where the S Rank spawns in, both in world queue and teleport queue. And you don't have to worry about lacking of hunting population to kill the S Rank: native people should be more than enough.

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Well do I remember the Firmament nonsense - so enjoyable to be locked out of our own servers' Firmament while off-worlders taunted us./s
I refused to carry out the same act so missed a lot of events as a result.

On topic: I don't really engage with hunts because of the garbage involved, but I've said it before and I will say it 'til the cows come home: cross-world hunts were a mistake. Get rid of that or give a grace period of 5 minutes at least.

Lots of cool and interesting ideas people have here. But as of right now, the only thing we can do about the pullers is just not join in with them when they pull. Allow your fellow hunters more time to get to the hunts. :)

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Having a pre-defined grace period before a S rank spawns after its condition is fulfilled or before it can be attacked after spawning would largely remove any complaints about things being pulled "early" and make things more fair for the people actively involved in spawning hunts. Any arguments against such tend to just come across as selfish to me, honestly.

It seems like an easier solution then trying add some kind of dynamic scaling to hunts to keep them from dying too quickly, though I'd find that preferable because I like having an actual fight instead of a pinata that gets smashed before it can even do a single mechanic sometimes. The Bozja FATE bosses do exist as a pre-established example of how dynamic scaling on an already spawned enemy can work however, as they gain a damage taken debuff if the FATE scaling is high but there are way less players present then expected from the scaling (Though why haven't given this to FATEs in general is anyone's guess). The S rank HP pool seems tuned with 24 players in mind, so they could give it a defense buff that scales to 50% damage taken with 48 players present, 25% if there's 96, etc.

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Where are you when you spawn a S rank in labyrinthos that you cant get there in time before the horde arrives? Players usually dont camp the atherytes when the spawn timer hits zero, they get a call from discord or other 3rd party programs and teleport.

If you were instance hopping or trying to spawn a hunt on another map then thats on you and no1 else for not getting there in time.

The only reason i missed out on hunts was because i was busy doing something else or the zone was congesteted, or i just didn't care for it.
I rly dont understand how ppl miss their own hunt that they spawned.
Old expansion hunts are different of course.

The only thing i want SE to change with hunts is a either dropdown menu or a new tab in timers where each zone + hunts are shown with a message next to it: spawned | can be spawned | up in 2 days and 21 hours

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Originally Posted by Nuki

I rly dont understand how ppl miss their own hunt that they spawned.

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As an example I've missed out on an SS rank that I helped kill the minions for. What's the incentive for me to kill the minions if other people get the rewards and not me?

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Originally Posted by Nuki

Where are you when you spawn a S rank in labyrinthos that you cant get there in time before the horde arrives? Players usually dont camp the atherytes when the spawn timer hits zero, they get a call from discord or other 3rd party programs and teleport.

If you were instance hopping or trying to spawn a hunt on another map then thats on you and no1 else for not getting there in time.

The only reason i missed out on hunts was because i was busy doing something else or the zone was congesteted, or i just didn't care for it.
I rly dont understand how ppl miss their own hunt that they spawned.
Old expansion hunts are different of course.

The only thing i want SE to change with hunts is a either dropdown menu or a new tab in timers where each zone + hunts are shown with a message next to it: spawned | can be spawned | up in 2 days and 21 hours

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The thing is that before the relays became nigh instantaneous courtesy of the hunting apps, the spawners could actually afford to go out and spawn things without fear of missing out because the relays would not spread through the general populace fast enough to pose an issue. The spawners on each server formed their own collective, and those collectives oft ended up uniting into a data center-wide network that coordinates to spawn things as quickly as possible while also giving each other advance notice of the hunts before everyone else to help ensure that the ones actually putting effort into things are rewarded for it.

The hunting apps virtually tore that all down as now all it takes is one bot or app user present in a zone when a S rank spawns to bring dozens of players bearing down upon it within a mere minute, then a single impatient individual can instigate the mob into deleting the thing from existence before those who aren't getting relays directly from the app can even get there.

It's mostly removed any structure to the whole system and the benefits of being actively involved with it have been largely diminished when simply not being in the same zone as something when it pops is enough to make you miss out.

You can argue that we were never handling the hunt system "as intended" but the new trend of app abuse isn't any different and mostly serves to benefit the impatient and lazy instead of the people actually engaging with the system by scouting and spawning.

Decent solution possibly would be just to half the time it takes for S ranks to pop, maybe nuke the rates on materia clusters or tomestones so that the achievements are accessable. It's even more annoying seeing people clog up the zones for one pop rock they can buy off the mb for 30k on a Friday.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing is that before the relays became nigh instantaneous courtesy of the hunting apps, the spawners could actually afford to go out and spawn things without fear of missing out because the relays would not spread through the general populace fast enough to pose an issue. The spawners on each server formed their own collective, and those collectives oft ended up uniting into a data center-wide network that coordinates to spawn things as quickly as possible while also giving each other advance notice of the hunts before everyone else to help ensure that the ones actually putting effort into things are rewarded for it.

The hunting apps virtually tore that all down as now all it takes is one bot or app user present in a zone when a S rank spawns to bring dozens of players bearing down upon it within a mere minute, then a single impatient individual can instigate the mob into deleting the thing from existence before those who aren't getting relays directly from the app can even get there.

It's mostly removed any structure to the whole system and the benefits of being actively involved with it have been largely diminished when simply not being in the same zone as something when it pops is enough to make you miss out.

You can argue that we were never handling the hunt system "as intended" but the new trend of app abuse isn't any different and mostly serves to benefit the impatient and lazy instead of the people actually engaging with the system by scouting and spawning.

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Why it pays to map the spawn point before you go to the effort of spawning the S rank. ARR is a mess along with a couple of the HW zones (hate you Sea of Clouds), but SB, ShB and EW are fairly easy to map in advance. There have been times we've gone to spawn the kill count S ranks and hadn't fully mapped the zone yet so I've peeled away from the kill group to chase B ranks around while the others are doing the kills. I get the location mapped (or at least narrowed down to 2 spots) by the time the S rank spawns and we go straight there then relay. Those using the hunt bots can't beat us to it because they've still got to teleport to the zone (if not also the world).

I agree that I don't want to see those who have been putting in the effort of the actual "hunt" to be missing out on rewards but I also don't want to see the system changed primarily for the benefit of those who just want the reward and can't be bothered to help with the hunting, which is mostly what an invuln window accomplishes. We all have other things we want to be doing and those of us spawning have already given up a fair amount of our time that we could have been using to do those other things.

Better for SE to change the "You sense the presence of a powerful mark" message to include coordinates so spawners can head straight there. Even if the hunt bots are spreading the message at the same moment, we're already in the zone - the bot users usually aren't.

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Originally Posted by Sedaz

Lots of cool and interesting ideas people have here. But as of right now, the only thing we can do about the pullers is just not join in with them when they pull. Allow your fellow hunters more time to get to the hunts. :)

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Exactly, except in instances where the monster despawns. I heard it happening but never seen it. Is it for SS ranks? IDK.

If someone tries to kill it and dies, then they have to respawn at a city. This means they are unlikely to get back into the instance on time but still possible or if they're working with a friend to grief. I did early pull before and told people to let me die. I was on MCH and I focus targeted and forgot at the time that if you do that and have auto-attack on, it will hit it. Sometimes mistakes happen. A timer would be nice though but only for S and SS ranks. SS should absolutely have 2 minutes at least because to spawn it everyone is spread out and there will always be an early puller waiting at the spawn location to hit it. People do admit in chat they are doing it to grief and GMs do nothing but the moment you tell someone is an idiot you're brought to GM jail for verbally harassing another player.

All hunt marks in general will despawn if they've been around for 24 hours straight, so you'll pretty much never see it happen with S ranks.

The minions despawning on reset is just a really stupid idea in general, though; moreso when it's combined with FOMO on the SS rank that leads to people running away before it dies then it targets them with a mechanic and chases them outside of its leash radius.

The simple way to fix hunt problems for all the crying fellas here, is by not giving credit to people that are participating on hunts from different home servers.

At this point just build in the hunting app in the game itself. Let the Hunt NPC offer you a link pearl that relayed hunt locations of others have seen while running around the world. Heck, throw in the spawners a bone and let the NPC hunt relayer say something like "X has spawned around Y! Thanks to [spawner's name] we got em' outta hiding!". Tack on a gil price to drain some of the gil on the server and you have your solution to the problem.

Squeenix would never do this, but the idea I had while reading this thread was to put a special buff on anyone who actively participates in spawning an S or SS rank and have said S or SS rank deal massively increased (800%+) increased damage and ignore invulnerability effects until someone with that buff engages it in combat. If you put the work in to make the hunt target available in the first place, you get to decide when combat with the hunt target starts and anyone who pulls sooner than that gets deleted.

An inulnerability buff would just mean people could still walk up and cause aggro, look at Ixion for example. People could still aggro and now youve got an unkillable s rank throwing aoes everywhere, while people are waiting for the buff timer to fall off.
As hilarious as that sounds, it would be a nightmare for those who died and dont get ressed or teleport back in time to get full credit