Hope I'm wrong, but stat squish seems to make people weaker in pre-EW contents?

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Are you trolling? You were the one that put words in my mouth about making my post about higher HP when it was about challenge. Making assumptions and when corrected you get defensive. I’m sorry but I won’t be addressing you any longer. We can’t agree anyways.

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You said Kolaina was correlating. But Kolaina implied that rather than being a free loader, they just don't enjoy fights where the boss is a damage sponge. I thought it was straight forward.

But I see this common trend on this forum where the second someone counters with something you don't like, you call them a troll to discredit them rather than come back with a counter argument.

Last boss of Bardem's Mettle ~ I was in a group that managed to cause the boss to skip the add phase - I've NEVER seen that happen pre stat squish! So it seems the < 80 dungeons are a lot easier.

Nier can be a toss up if it's filled with people that never done it before or haven't done it in a long time.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

You said Kolaina was correlating. But Kolaina implied that rather than being a free loader, they just don't enjoy fights where the boss is a damage sponge. I thought it was straight forward.

But I see this common trend on this forum where the second someone counters with something you don't like, you call them a troll to discredit them rather than come back with a counter argument.

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There’s no counter. He quoted my response about challenge with one about HP, so I thought he correlated both. I would assume if it was unrelated to my post about challenge he wouldn’t have quoted me. If it was a misunderstanding my bad. But it’s not me being closed to criticism.

If you can prove why the current ease of the raids is better I’m all ears.

I only noticed in A1N honestly.
Usually never been a problem nuking the boss and going straight to the other that starts Self Detonating but now we gotta damage a little more the other before nuking. Could be groups but this is by far the only one that we feel weaker.

Raids are pretty much the same honestly, Rabanastre has many things that can be easily skipped and it is all a matter of how good the dps is. (Stuff like killing Mateus even before finishing casting the proximity Blizzard or right after that, sand spheres not spawning due to the fast dps on tower, no golem adds, no clicking on circle during the dark phase on second to last boss etc).

Same with trials..

While reading all posts I came up to the following conclusions:

1. Post lvl 50 content has got longer to clear (just a bit), which is great (at least to me)

ilvl vertical system is a way (really lousy, nonetheless) to keep us playing and grinding. And its absurd inflation made content pointless in terms of challenge. To kill a boss in 1/8 of its intended time is not fun, is like getting in a Disneyland ride that is supposed to be 5 mins long but ends 30 seconds right after you hop in...

2. Indirectly, we found a way to fix the CT freeloaders on roulettes (Especially alliance raids)

Make the squish reach CT and other raids, you have to at least do one of the boss mechanics rotation, you have to feel how the game was intended to be felt. I mean, when we go through the whole mechanics rotation more than twice it becomes repetitive, but on CT you had to jump between platforms in one boss in order to survive, let players feel that thrill to survival again.

Therefore, since ALL alliance raids are """difficult""" again, people wont cheese gear to get in there.

Unfair to freeloaders that want to level their 18th job they wont ever touch again? Maybe, but this game has to be fun. A grind maybe, but a FUN grind.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

I only noticed in A1N honestly.
Usually never been a problem nuking the boss and going straight to the other that starts Self Detonating but now we gotta damage a little more the other before nuking. Could be groups but this is by far the only one that we feel weaker.

Same with trials..

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A1N is a pretty good gauge. We could easily push it at 80.

If we can't do that at lvl 90 with higher stats? That pretty much shows something is wrong with the numbers.

We shouldn't be at a lower power level 10 levels higher than we were before Endwalker. I don't spend time and resources leveling and gearing up to be worse than what I was before.

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Originally Posted by LordTimmy

2. Indirectly, we found a way to fix the CT freeloaders on roulettes (Especially alliance raids)[INDENT]Make the squish reach CT and other raids, you have to at least do one of the boss mechanics rotation, you have to feel how the game was intended to be felt. .

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There was already an easy way to do this but the FFXIV refused to do it.

Lower the dang maximum ilvl

There is no reason to have a 120/130 ilvl max on content that is ilvl 70-90. That's almost 1.5x/2x the min ilvl. That's the reason people could blast through it.

I don't think it made people weaker, but what it did do is make the gap between having good or bad party members at low levels MUCH more significant. Pre-Endwalker, a strong DPS player could push damage to the extent that they can complete the duty much faster even with bad party members. But nowadays if you get an awful group then you can't do that as effectively as a result of the stat squish.

Not surprised in the least. There was absolutely no reason they couldn’t come up with some other solution. Are they just gonna keep doing this every other expac and keep breaking things and continuously unbalancing things, like WoW does now? It’s an awful experience to go down in power (YES, seeing your numbers increase over a period of time is a KEY experience of ANY rpg) and makes the game feel cheap.

The whole idea of a stat squish in ANY game, let alone an RPG is absurd. The whole point of an RPG is to get stronger in time. I will never ever ever defend a “stat” squish, and god forbid square ever does a “level” squish.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

Not surprised in the least. There was absolutely no reason they couldn’t come up with some other solution. Are they just gonna keep doing this every other expac and keep breaking things and continuously unbalancing things, like WoW does now? It’s an awful experience to go down in power (YES, seeing your numbers increase over a period of time is a KEY experience of ANY rpg) and makes the game feel cheap.

The whole idea of a stat squish in ANY game, let alone an RPG is absurd. The whole point of an RPG is to get stronger in time. I will never ever ever defend a “stat” squish, and god forbid square ever does a “level” squish.

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The problem in a Multiplayer Online Role Player Game with a vertical ilvl gear system, is that in contrast to a stand alone game, you have to repeat very old content in order to get the items needed to have that "you're-way-stronger-than-before" experience (AKA Poetics in this game, ilvl) aside the usual "natural" level we get. To that end, we need to repeat the same old content over and over again, for us to become artificially stronger, because If we go naked with our "level 90" we would of die on a same level monster.

In a stand-alone game, sure, you can go with lvl-90 and choose in between killing low level mobs and take forever to level up or go endgame content a few times, but is your choice to never touch old/low level content ever again, beacuse if you go to those zones, pretty much you sneeze and 20 mobs in the area die. MMORPG """forces""" you to repeat old content for the sake of become stronger, like blatantly.

Then again, we as "level 90" ilvl 560 (minimum AF gear) we could of stay at "Lvl 90" areas and get exp there, but FATES aren't as good, and the rewards of daily roulettes are simply too good to just pass on them.

Of course is one's choice to do it or not. But, at least, if we have to do it 1000000 times, better have it fun than braindead boring, in my humble opinion, that is.

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Originally Posted by LordTimmy

The problem in a Multiplayer Online Role Player Game with a vertical ilvl gear system, is that in contrast to a stand alone game, you have to repeat very old content in order to get the items needed to have that "you're-way-stronger-than-before" experience (AKA Poetics in this game, ilvl) aside the usual "natural" level we get. To that end, we need to repeat the same old content over and over again, for us to become artificially stronger, because If we go naked with our "level 90" we would of die on a same level monster.

In a stand-alone game, sure, you can go with lvl-90 and choose in between killing low level mobs and take forever to level up or go endgame content a few times, but is your choice to never touch old/low level content ever again, beacuse if you go to those zones, pretty much you sneeze and 20 mobs in the area die. MMORPG """forces""" you to repeat old content for the sake of become stronger, like blatantly.

Of course is one's choice to do it or not. But, at least, if we have to do it 1000000 times, better have it fun than braindead boring, in my humble opinion, that is.

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What are you even talking about? Poetics are completely irrelevant for end-game progression. You can easily get all the newest gear without ever touching sub-90 content. Five expert roulettes a week, less if you raid. Not that the original point you were replying to was good, but your argument just isn't reflecting the realities of the game at all.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

What are you even talking about? Poetics are completely irrelevant for end-game progression. You can easily get all the newest gear without ever touching sub-90 content. Five expert roulettes a week, less if you raid. Not that the original point you were replying to was good, but your argument just isn't reflecting the realities of the game at all.

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My bad, seems that I have to mention every tome in game so the semantics don't come and bite me :3

Astronomy, Aphorism and w/e tome will become the flavor of the expansion, that you may get on hunts or expert roulette.

Also, yes, ppl can do extremes, ultimates and such to get top echelon gear, but I think OP is talking about more casual high level gear on content that can be done in roulettes and how the stat squish affects the old content to that purpose.


(´・ω・`)ノ　cheers

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Originally Posted by LordTimmy

2. Indirectly, we found a way to fix the CT freeloaders on roulettes (Especially alliance raids)

Make the squish reach CT and other raids, you have to at least do one of the boss mechanics rotation, you have to feel how the game was intended to be felt. I mean, when we go through the whole mechanics rotation more than twice it becomes repetitive, but on CT you had to jump between platforms in one boss in order to survive, let players feel that thrill to survival again.

Therefore, since ALL alliance raids are """difficult""" again, people wont cheese gear to get in there.

Unfair to freeloaders that want to level their 18th job they wont ever touch again? Maybe, but this game has to be fun. A grind maybe, but a FUN grind.

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You cannot hope stat squish to suddenly increase the duration of 15 minute raids into 30-minute ones without increasing the reward. People will obviously riot. Even if implemented, I say, at best it would be 20 minutes, and people would still cheat ilv to get into Crystal Tower series, because the mech of the lv50 raid is very basic and easy to deal with (people run them for so long that they can just do the mech with eye closed, unless the raid is full of sprouts), compared to more elaborated ones in higher levels.


Also, make bosses more spongy have nothing to do with difficulties. You're likely to see more mech, yes, but those extra mech won't be deal-breaking ones. It only means it take longer for you to kill bosses, which already takes too long to die.

The only time I really noticed something was off was in the SB EX's. The bosses don't die fast at all even on 90 classes. Need 3-4 minimum and it's still not dropping as quickly as you'd expect.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

You cannot hope stat squish to suddenly increase the duration of 15 minute raids into 30-minute ones without increasing the reward. People will obviously riot. Even if implemented, I say, at best it would be 20 minutes, and people would still cheat ilv to get into Crystal Tower series, because the mech of the lv50 raid is very basic and easy to deal with (people run them for so long that they can just do the mech with eye closed, unless the raid is full of sprouts), compared to more elaborated ones in higher levels.


Also, make bosses more spongy have nothing to do with difficulties. You're likely to see more mech, yes, but those extra mech won't be deal-breaking ones. It only means it take longer for you to kill bosses, which already takes too long to die.

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On CT prime days, even with top gear to that time, there were live or die mechanics if my memory serves me well. The platform mechanic and meteors were some of them that comes to mind, people were really focused on those to survive then, with the music and the meteors falling it was really fun, also, there are also other mechanics that it has been years we haven't done/seen and I don't remember them, but the raid was indeed fun.

I don't say people won't riot, in fact, I expect it so (especially in NA). Because for a long time many of those people didn't know the real "ride" that raid and others represented, they only see it as a 15 min spam easy to get experience with the brain off raid. That doesn't mean that raid, and others, were intended that way.

Pretty much what happened with MSQ roulette, people were just killing and not making possible to fresh players to enjoy the cutscenes. Another story is that I think long a** cutscenes in a raid had any sense, but the game was planned on those dungeons to be that way, people liked it or not (personally I didn't like it I got to admit) But regardless, SE changed it so fresh people could have the whole game experience.

And I take your statement on "full of sprouts". Yes!, Indeed!, CT (and other alliance raids) are intended to them and we should be there to support them having fun, but please, it would be great to have a little thrill in between while doing it. :)

Want to make it worth it on rewards?, By all means, be my guest, go for it! (I insist!), if that makes the raids fun again I'm all for it. To have CT and others loaded makes me yawn to no end and I keep thinking "ugh, not CT again..." And no, I'm not saying how SE should do it, rebalancing would be great because just adding more HP to the mob won't be as good. But that is a terrain I don't want to step my feet on, hehe.