Customizable gender identity? (for emotes)

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

I've always found female viera kind of gross so that might be why I never confuse the two.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I think majority of male Viera up close just look like handsome squidward but I digress. We’ll just agree to disagree.

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so this is why male and female can't live in the same tribe :^)

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Originally Posted by Makeda

If you just wanted pronouns in the chat bar that would be easy - but you're asking for animations. And that's a big ask requiring a LOT of developer time.

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m-worders have already managed to port animations from one race to another. this is not a big ask in the least.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Because I don’t understand peoples desire to make all races and gender the same in this game.

If you want female cposes, play a female. If you want male cposes, play a male.

The dev’s shouldn’t have to waste their time making this happen. There’s other things that could be changed that improves the quality of life of this game - it’s such a low priority of things that need to be done that it’s not even worth considering.

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What’s the issue with having more options? You can have your particular set of emotes and looks and others can differ

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

What’s the issue with having more options? You can have your particular set of emotes and looks and others can differ

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Because people will literally lose their minds if they see male characters use the female WHM idle pose.

tbh trying to couch this in the language of "doing it for inclusivity" is a bit weird. It seems like a good Quality of Life change everyone could benefit from; some race and gender animations are just cooler than others and I'd love to be able to customize which animations my character used to a more specific degree. But then again I'm all for them adding more animations and styles period.

Poses are tied to the rigging of each model, with the mail and female models obviously being different. To accommodate this request would require actual new animations for all those emotes. They are never going to put in that kind of effort for what is ultimately an extreme niche request.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I always say this but people are struggling to tell the difference between male and female viera as it is. Why make them even more similar?

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This is the first time I ever heard of this and my fc has a lot of bunnies of both genders. One even went for a fem-boy look. I don't have a problem telling the men and women apart at all and I don't use poses to see which is which. The ears on their own are a dead giveaway never mind other bodily proportions and the faces.

We can already cycle through cpose for non-weapon idle stances. The same could easily be applied to weapon stances. I would love to have the male pose as a bard.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Poses are tied to the rigging of each model, with the mail and female models obviously being different. To accommodate this request would require actual new animations for all those emotes. They are never going to put in that kind of effort for what is ultimately an extreme niche request.

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I can't speak for how XIV works, but it absolutely does not require new animations. In most programs it's incredibly easy to simply transfer skeletons from model to model even if the models don't match in the least leading to hilarious incidents like the classic "Pikaman" meme. Without human care and precision it won't always look good, but frankly I'd rather be able to swap between animations and decide what looks good to me than not at all.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

I can't speak for how XIV works, but it absolutely does not require new animations. In most programs it's incredibly easy to simply transfer skeletons from model to model even if the models don't match in the least leading to hilarious incidents like the classic "Pikaman" meme. Without human care and precision it won't always look good, but frankly I'd rather be able to swap between animations and decide what looks good to me than not at all.

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You've obviously never worked in animation a day in your life.

We won't be getting any more playable races, so the people on the character team can move on from making new stuff to updating old stuff. I don't see why this can't be rolled into any character creation updates in the future. I like the female MNK pose more than the male one.

Also - if people couldn't tell a male apart from a female because of a idle-stance they might want to get checked for oncoming blindness.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

This game has done a great job at being inclusive with respect to equipment by allowing everyone to wear the maid dress and butler outfit for example, but what about emotes?

I know there are lots of people who would prefer the emotes from a "male" character or a "female" character but can't. Some example are the idle pose for dark knight, or the sit pose for miqo'te. I can't imagine it would be too much work to allow players to simply choose their identity and then have the other emote be loaded, so is there any chance this will be considered?

My suggestion is to add something like /changepose [male|female], /cheer [male|female]
or maybe like PSO2 where they do /mchangepose or /fdance.
Thoughts?

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I would love to get the male dark knight /cpose for idling with my sword out. Looks far better than the female version. It would be a very nice feature.

It will never happen because they'd have to redo the animations for all the models, you can't just import animations to a completely different bone rig without going in to hand-adjust each and every one of them. Way too much work for the QOL improvement the feature would bring. Alas.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

You've obviously never worked in animation a day in your life.

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My degree disagrees.

I guess it'd be nice to be able to use both male and female emotes for things. DRK pose is pretty cool on females, and I'd like to be able to do it on a male character too.

Can I please have the Hyur Princess Run, please?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

m-worders have already managed to port animations from one race to another. this is not a big ask in the least.

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That's not really an argument as these "m-worders" don't have to follow any kind of QC. Sure, most of the time they look great, but there are also many cases where stuff clips hard or behaves weird.

Personally I don't care either way; I can see why people would want multiple options but I also kind of like the gender and racial unique poses. Makes your choice on what to play feel a bit more special.

I will say though as a real life androgynous person the handwringing about how emotes are poltical and feminine looking men being in a japanese game did give me a laugh so thanks OP.

Im confused.....why mention "Identity" or how is this about Identity at all....
When all your saying is you want to be able to use a different Version of an Emote?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

What’s the issue with having more options? You can have your particular set of emotes and looks and others can differ

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I see nothing wrong with having more options. But why revisit pre-existing emotes just to get rid of the gender lock?

I’m for a variety of NEW emotes and cposes that we can unlock. Look and move forward, stop looking back.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Can I please have the Hyur Princess Run, please?

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I would die for it!

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Originally Posted by Shialan

That's not really an argument as these "m-worders" don't have to follow any kind of QC. Sure, most of the time they look great, but there are also many cases where stuff clips hard or behaves weird.

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that's irrelevant when half the gear clips, hairs clip, etc. m-worders actually do a better job than developers in this regard to be honest...

They are doing a different job. They still don't have to create around any kind of data limits and stuff.

We've dudes wearing maid outfits and skirts, I doubt it would be seen as a stretch for it to actually be a thing. Plus, the "my immersion" boat has sailed a long, long time ago. However, like everything, It's down to legacy code, resources and time. We can't really just force animations onto a different rig, unless we encounter something like to this.
https://i.imgur.com/wF1PswP.png

What would really be great is if they just removed gendered emotes and had them all available to everyone as just variations, if that makes sense. So, for the cposes, just add them to the cpose rotation or had them be like 'cpose1' 'cpose 8' etc. Same with sitting and laying positions. and then with Emotes, have 'happy' 'happy2' or something along those lines.

I think..and I know a lot of people mean well. I know you mean well. But when people make a fuss about "gender expression", almost 10 times out of 10 it reeks of stereotypes/the unironic forcing of gender roles. People say that they hate gendered rules, but then turn around and enforce them by insinuating that in order for them to be the opposite gender, they need to look and act exactly like this and then the this is typically the exact caricature that causes so much stress and turmoil for that other gender to begin with. It's actually very foul to keep encountering so casually. So, making it.. "female pose" shouldnt really be a thing at all anyway, because ultimately gender shouldnt be at the forefront of clothing nor motions, since anyone can do or use them regardless of what they are. There are no written rules when it comes to gender, just rules people heard growing up and continued to apply to themselves. There are masculine women just as there are feminine men-you don't have to keep showing loyalty to these made up rules by only expressing yourself one way as a gender and then another way as a different gender.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a good idea, but that furthermore they should just go on ahead and remove the gendered motions thing altogether. Not because its inclusive, but because its common sense that there's no one specific way to be a man nor a woman.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

animators are not 3D modelers

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The teams all work on different things. For example the same team in charge of housing…..also designs Ultimates. Spending time on one thing takes away time from the other thing. That’s how it’s always worked. People are already getting their gender neutral glams. Was that not enough? Now people are asking for more and more.

Depends on how complicated the ask would be. I'm aware of the M-people already accomplishing this somewhat, but I think we can all admit that doesn't compare to actual work done by the dev team, in most cases. There could be unseen bugs, clipping, mismatched movements, etc... Any number of issues that arise. I'm not well versed enough to know how easy of an ask this would be.

Giving more options is never a bad idea. Something I'm in favor of, but I will say it doesn't really have anything to do with inclusion. It seems kind of... confrontational? The way the topic is labeled made me think this was another bait troll thread, then reading it lead to a reasonable request.

TLDR: I'm all for it, because it's a quality of life improvement. As long as work on it doesn't make other aspects/content creation suffer, why not? Not sure what gender identity has to do with it at all, hence my confusion at the thread's title.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

I've always found female viera kind of gross so that might be why I never confuse the two.

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How are you a male viera and think the females look gross when the males looks just like the females?

Please keep gender politics out of this game, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Ruru_Nayu

Please keep gender politics out of this game, thanks!

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but ruru, the gender politics are coming from inside the game

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

but ruru, the gender politics are coming from inside the game

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It's more the players than the game, personally i don't wanna have anything to do with it.

While having customizable emotes is fine in my book the rest is "Why?"

I'd be fully in support of something like this in a new game, built from the ground up with it in mind. However, going in and allowing custom pronouns for emotes, when all of that stuff is hard coded to your gender selection at character creation, may be more development work that is feasible, especially considering it'd only make sense to have this apply to how npcs address you in dialog as well.

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Originally Posted by Ruru_Nayu

It's more the players than the game, personally i don't wanna have anything to do with it.

While having customizable emotes is fine in my book the rest is "Why?"

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you misunderstand, i mean there are already gender politics in the game, most people just dont notice them because they are ones most people agree with almost instinctivly. we live in a society, etc,.

"girl wear dress" is as much a gender politic as "what if boy wear dress?"

(i dont mean this in an aggressive way btw)

Female Lala dance emote is nice, Male lala Eye mount posture is nice, etc.
Being able to choose for one or the other would be nice!

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

you misunderstand, i mean there are already gender politics in the game, most people just dont notice them because they are ones most people agree with almost instinctivly. we live in a society, etc,.

"girl wear dress" is as much a gender politic as "what if boy wear dress?"

(i dont mean this in an aggressive way btw)

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If we look back in history men also used to wear a skirt for example at renaissance times in Italy.
So Fashion is a state of mind for most people, what works for you might not be in other's taste and vice versa.

But i get what you mean!

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

My degree disagrees.

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/ffda...temid=16031701

I feel like having gender-specific emotes as a point of distinction is lame.
Why would my character's gender matter in how he takes a stance when he's just standing around?
It feels particularly odd in this game where you can be any job on any character of any race... So why would my character's gender matter in something as mundane as say, crossing your arms in some emote or another?

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

To put it bluntly, sounds like a waste of time.

I always say this but people are struggling to tell the difference between male and female viera as it is. Why make them even more similar?

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Why do you need to know the difference?

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Originally Posted by Awarewolf

Why do you need to know the difference?

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Read through my other replies. I’m not going to repeat myself.

I really think that trying to turn this into a '' progressive '' issue is a tad obnoxious and trying to spin it in a weird way.
In the end of the day It'd just be nice with more options but I don't think that it's a political issue lol.

There's some on male characters I think are rly dumb and others on female characters I think are dumb.
The female ones actually tend to be better animated tho, the male ones are usually more stiff and less fluid.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

I feel like having gender-specific emotes as a point of distinction is lame.
Why would my character's gender matter in how he takes a stance when he's just standing around?
It feels particularly odd in this game where you can be any job on any character of any race... So why would my character's gender matter in something as mundane as say, crossing your arms in some emote or another?

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Are we really going to pretend like this isn't a thing irl?
Men and women do move and tend to emote differently irl to some extent it's social but it's also because we're quite literally structured differently and find different things comfortable.
Meme aside, men don't like to sit with their legs closed for example for quite obvious reasons.
And women have generally wider hips and are more bottom heavy and move differently than most men do.
Women also have breasts which affects how women might cross their arms too.

I don't see why emotes shouldn't be more reflective of how people are irl.
Should they all be masculine?
Why?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I don't see why emotes shouldn't be more reflective of how people are irl.
Should they all be masculine?
Why?

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This is a fantasy game, not a realistic game. Personally, even as a gay guy, i’d rather those assets and resources be put towards other things. We’re already getting more feminine gear and hairstyles than masculine ones. It isn’t fair to people who prefer those.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

This game has done a great job at being inclusive with respect to equipment by allowing everyone to wear the maid dress and butler outfit for example, but what about emotes?

I know there are lots of people who would prefer the emotes from a "male" character or a "female" character but can't. Some example are the idle pose for dark knight, or the sit pose for miqo'te. I can't imagine it would be too much work to allow players to simply choose their identity and then have the other emote be loaded, so is there any chance this will be considered?

My suggestion is to add something like /changepose [male|female], /cheer [male|female]
or maybe like PSO2 where they do /mchangepose or /fdance.
Thoughts?

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I would definitely like some of the male poses and emotes. especially the idle poses!