Why does Sage punish you for using your healing spells?

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Grain of salt as I only got Sage to 71, but how Eukraisa interacts with spells is cool I find it annoying busy work while playing. Eventually I will get used to it, but it seems like the base spells are shit without it which begs the question as to why I even have them as base abilities if they suck so much, but again I've done like two dungeons and it hasn't felt good to play.

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eukrasia is just sb dark arts

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Originally Posted by van_arn

0 damage healers were always a bad sign, but fear the 0 damage sage

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Gawd, I've had so many of these. They're even putting Kardion on the tank. Why...? Why when you don't intend to do damage? Somehow they just use Eukrasian Prognosis.

Stopped reading on page 2. Didn't see anything all that helpful so here I go. Forgive me if this is a repeat:

SGE has a lot of oGCD skills you can use WHILE DPSing. And it has a ton of +healing and +mitigation tools. The key is to rotate these in ways that make sense so that your tank only ever needs spot healing that you can provide with one of your other ogcd heals. In general, you'll want to do the following on every set of two packs. Use the ogcds in between aoe dps skills. If there's something you don't have at your level just move to the next item or substitute it with something in the following paragraph.

E.diag on the tank and yourself > Dot adds > reapply E.diag on tank if it popped and you're still running > Around the time the tank stops running. Krasis the tank for +20%healing > Physis for +10%healing and regen > Kerachole for 10% mitigation and regen at higher level > Haima/panhaima for shields > Use all your stacks on toxicon aoe > Use your phlegma stacks > Use your regular aoe > If/when kerachole mitigation drops use Taurochole on tank.

Rince and repeat for the next set of packs.

That should carry you through your dungeons. You'll still be able to use holos/Druochole/Soteria/pneuma if the tank still needs love or you're at a level where you can use those to substitute something missing in the above rotation. And last but not least, Zoe + E.diag + Pepsis can help in a crisis.

If you have a bad/paper tank. It's going to be a little rough on sage during leveling. You might use everything on the first set of adds and be dry for the next one. I personally have only had this issue at the lvl 85 dungeon with DRKs and to some extent GNBs. And only the first couple of packs at that. No matter what, you need to avoid getting into a GCD heal spam because that's going to be extremely rough.
But I also did Bozja up to lvl 80 so not sure how dungeons feel before that.

PS: Don't forget Rhizomata

Sage is by far my favorite healer since Astrologian got ruined with its card changes.

This healer finally feels like one with an identity. I wish there were a few buffs (like to Kardia), but otherwise I love it.

Found this thread on google while looking for some SGE help for a friend. What in the world are you talking about OP? xD

...what? Can you elaborate? It doesn't, at all. It actually encourages players to use their whole toolkit including DPS!! Amazing I know!

SGE is the healer you want to avoid if you're a "but I'm a healer, I only need/want to heal!" type of player, you already have WHM for that.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

SGE is the healer you want to avoid if you're a "but I'm a healer, I only need/want to heal!" type of player, you already have WHM for that.

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Apparently not, because I have to focus heal too often. I can't even attempt to use a damage ability or some of these tanks are probably going to die on some pulls. I have to be playing it wrong, like I have to be, but I am not sure how I can be.. I use their kit, but STILL I have these tanks drop so fast. Maybe these tanks aren't using cds, I, admittedly, haven't been paying attention to that when I am healing on it, but I don't know. Maybe it's just my anxiety talking, but I think I hate the class. Simple as that. I much prefer white mage.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently not, because I have to focus heal too often. I can't even attempt to use a damage ability or some of these tanks are probably going to die on some pulls. I have to be playing it wrong, like I have to be, but I am not sure how I can be.. I use their kit, but STILL I have these tanks drop so fast. Maybe these tanks aren't using cds, I, admittedly, haven't been paying attention to that when I am healing on it, but I don't know. Maybe it's just my anxiety talking, but I think I hate the class. Simple as that. I much prefer white mage.

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I think this is my issue as well but I want to like Sage so bad but I guess the class just isn't for me. It's too bad because I love how their abilities look and sound but I wish I could understand the job but I just think it's flawed in its design is all.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently not, because I have to focus heal too often. I can't even attempt to use a damage ability or some of these tanks are probably going to die on some pulls. I have to be playing it wrong, like I have to be, but I am not sure how I can be.. I use their kit, but STILL I have these tanks drop so fast. Maybe these tanks aren't using cds, I, admittedly, haven't been paying attention to that when I am healing on it, but I don't know. Maybe it's just my anxiety talking, but I think I hate the class. Simple as that. I much prefer white mage.

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Not really. If the DPS is slow or the tank is not doing a good job with CDs (or his gear is not up to date and blabla...) you will have a hard time.

Eukrasian Diagnosis pre-pull and once mid pull. Then when the running is done use krasis(if available) followed by another eukrasian diagnosis into haima(or pan-haima). Then you can start using your aoe dps GCDs and weave in kerochole(and taurochole after kerochole wears off). Never wiped a pull with this line up. Had to use druchole here and there due to low dps, but if that doesn't work then ether the tank isn't rotating CDs properly or the dps aren't doing their one and only job.

I found Sage hard at first but once you learn how to use all your abilities then it's not so bad. Don't be afraid to use Haima in a pinch. With practice, you'll get there. .

I genuinely don't understand some of the people in this community. It's like you're playing an entirely different game.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

I found Sage hard at first but once you learn how to use all your abilities then it's not so bad. Don't be afraid to use Haima in a pinch. With practice, you'll get there. .

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I second this, it was hard at first but once you get a grasp of the basics large pulls become easy, especially if the tank is good about mitigating as much as possible

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

The way Kardion works is that you ONLY heal when you cast a damage spell.

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Huh?

I'm so lost right now...

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Not really. If the DPS is slow or the tank is not doing a good job with CDs (or his gear is not up to date and blabla...) you will have a hard time.

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This exactly.

A lot of people speak as if SGE is perfect or "not for someone". This is just not true. Just because some like the class the way it is, doesn't mean it doesn't need tweaks.

If a class can only perform well because the tank and dps perform well, then there's an issue. SGE is overly reliant on good players and suffers greatly with suboptimal players.
The amount of struggle in Expert roulette is real with DRKs, tanks who don't rotate CDs correctly, low dps, reviving players and topping them up and shielding as multiple aoes are going out is an immense pain. The saving grace in difficult situations just really isn't there like it is with other healers. In these situations dpsing and oGCD healing will not do you any good other than quickly depleting your Addersgall.

Kardia needs a buff. It isn't even comparable to a SCH fairy for me or a regen. Aetherpact makes Kardia + Soteria look dumb. You can't "regen" with a SGE if you're constantly having to carebear the tank, and damned if you do because the risk of your tank dying is high. Kardia isn't meant to be a regen, imo. It's meant to be the identity of the class - dealing damage rewards you with heals through Kardia. Pneuma solidies this fact. But as we speak, Kardia is terrible and isn't rewarding, especially if its performance is dependent on your tanks play.

This is one of the worst troll threads I've seen yet.

This has made it to 7 pages with many people taking it seriously, so I guess that I have to give it a 10/10.

Bravo.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

Why does sage punish you for using healing spells? The way Kardion works is that you ONLY heal when you cast a damage spell. No other healer works like that or has their healing tied to their damage. It's such an unnecessary mechanic that incentivizes healers to make Suboptimal plays. As a former White Mage player (let's not get into the thin air nerfs, shall we) it's incredibly frustrating that sqenix ignores what gameplay feels like for healers. Just make kardion work whenever you cast ANY gcd. I shouldn't be forced to spam damage moves when my tank is dying.

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I know, right? Why does Dancer punish me for moving around and not healing when I'm supposed to? O M G.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it's a troll thread, look up their name on a certain raiding website and you'll see that they know how to play the game

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Great, now I'm being stalked for sharing my opinion. If anything, the fact that I clear savage and ultimate gives me some credibility as to why I think this job has a fundamental design flaw. Don't attack my character when that's not the point of this post, instead you can talk about the points I bought up.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

Great, now I'm being stalked for sharing my opinion. If anything, the fact that I clear savage and ultimate gives me some credibility as to why I think this job has a fundamental design flaw. Don't attack my character when that's not the point of this post, instead you can talk about the points I bought up.

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Any Savage or Ultimate-tier healer worth their salt knows you don’t rely heavily on GCD heals; they know that most healing is done via oGCDs first, and then GCD heals only if you have to. So your insistence to have Kardia proc on healing GCDs is not logic consistent with current healer gameplay at any decent level—not even a high one.

There’s nothing wrong with the way Kardia functions. If you are expecting it to be a primary source of healing while ignoring your Addersgall abilities, then you are playing the job incorrectly. I’ve leveled Sage and played it near exclusively since early access, and the only instances where I actually have to resort to GCD healing is with tanks that don’t understand how to use their defensives, or if damage is so low that they’ve run out and my resources are strained between dungeon pulls. In the current EXs, the only time I touch a GCD heal is during downtime (e.g., before adds in the level 89 EX, and that’s purely to proc Toxicon stacks).

Your thread is being called a troll thread since it seems to be a trend lately for people to come here and troll. And healer DPS is basically the low hanging fruit for trolls.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it's a troll thread, look up their name on a certain raiding website and you'll see that they know how to play the game

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When one have cleared that level of gameplay, it’s very unlikely why they can’t even tell what’s the answer to this kind of question the thread imposed. It takes a considerable investment in term of time, and learning effort—they can’t possibly learn nothing out of it.

Ngl, I genuinely thought it’s a legit ‘sprout cries’. Now that has been brought up, everything sounds disingenuous. A fitting trademark of a troll thread. Thank you for pointing this out. That's one more to the list of trolls, they're just getting thicker and thicker!

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

Great, now I'm being stalked for sharing my opinion. If anything, the fact that I clear savage and ultimate gives me some credibility as to why I think this job has a fundamental design flaw. Don't attack my character when that's not the point of this post, instead you can talk about the points I bought up.

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attacking your character by pointing out that you clearly know how to play the game in hard content at good levels? what.
or do you mean the fact that the whole premise of the thread is 'healers doing dps is suboptimal' because it's part of the job?
why do you say that when you clearly deal a lot of damage in extremes and savages, because you know you're supposed to, basically disagreeing with your very own OP by way of your playstyle, yet make the thread about how a healer having to DPS is bad? congrats on baiting so many people into responding in earnest, I guess?

This person put forth their valid concerns and is being treated like a villain. This is disgusting. We are better than this.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you are reduced to spamming GCDs (Eukrasian Diagnosis is better than Diagnosis, which is less potent than Cure I and unusable in any higher level dungeon) on the tank, then you have an issue that isn’t even related to Sage. Either your tank isn’t popping defensives, or your DPS are failing to kill trash packs fast enough (likely from not AOEing). Sage may have a harder time than other healers in dungeons due to lack of burst healing, but it isn’t bad.

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Thank you for this! ^^ There are a handful of new tanks who think they can get away without using their full kit to mitigate during large pulls and blame the healer when the entire lvl 80 SGE kit fails to keep them up. This is the player who didn't bother to map "Rampart" to their hot bar (or read any of their other tool tips for that matter). I've said this before and I'll say it again: "If it doesn't excite a player to figure out ways to take the least amount of damage possible, then the tank role may not be for them."

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

This person put forth their valid concerns and is being treated like a villain. This is disgusting. We are better than this.

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Is it valid, though?
Sage was designed to have higher and targetable auto heal potency than SCH's fairy under the premise they generally dps (170 per GCD vs. 180 per tick). Any GCD spend on healing brings them closer to fairy auto heals first until they ultimately fall behind if they drop too much dps. That is the way the job was designed and isn't a flaw.
A flaw would be if you could only gain Addersgall stacks out of combat. Or that SCH has to GCD summon their fairy while Sage's Kardia lasts through death and is applied with an oGCD.
As it is, Sage is designed as the healer that is encouraged to keep dps uptime for more free heal potency - it was announced as the dps healer posterchild and the class mechanic reflects this. If someone wants to GCD heal without any "punishment" (except the chunky dps loss, of course), they have 3 other healers to play.
Just like someone who doesn't likes fewer buttons has WHM and, to an extend, Sage or someone who enjoys buffs has AST.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Tell your tanks to stop being bad and use their defensive cooldowns.

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Easier said than done. Bad tanks are just how it is in the dungeon roulette. A player can either get banned for "compelling a playstyle" by wording it nicely, or banned for "harassment" if they worded it that way. :p

Might as well not beat around the bush anymore though.. It's not me, it's them. It's probably more of a compliment on sage's abilities that I can even keep most of them up in the first place.

kardion is not meant to be the main source of healing, it's more akin to the fairy
It does heal for more as well in exchange for less uptime

Sage is just a more difficult healer to play optimally and in all honesty it's probably the worst healer for dungeons.
It's based around having a lot more shielding and mitigation in exchange for less raw healing.

To excel as a Sage you need to be proactive and know fights well enough that your able to prevent the damage that is going to happen
while a WHM for example just needs to be reactive and repair damage that has already happened

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently not, because I have to focus heal too often. I can't even attempt to use a damage ability or some of these tanks are probably going to die on some pulls. I have to be playing it wrong, like I have to be, but I am not sure how I can be.. I use their kit, but STILL I have these tanks drop so fast. Maybe these tanks aren't using cds, I, admittedly, haven't been paying attention to that when I am healing on it, but I don't know. Maybe it's just my anxiety talking, but I think I hate the class. Simple as that. I much prefer white mage.

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100%, its the Tank not using their cooldowns.
In the first week after i hit 90 on Sage and did the EXR dungeons, many a tank came through in full 89 Job gear and i had to use every Addersgall charge, Rhiz, every oGCD button and was still needing to spam E-Diag to keep them off the floor. And then they sprint directly into the next pack to do it all over again! T_T
Recently dove back into SCH and was doing the 81 dungeon. Tank did a mass pull and died despite having Fey Union attached, SS, WD, spending every AF charge at my disposal AND bending every GCD to Adloq with every emergency cooldown blown.
And when he died, the Monk was easier to heal despite that no mobs had died yet, lol. Easier to the point i was able to Raise the tank and tap him back to full while also keeping the Monk alive >_>

And the the other night, i finally convinced a friend who was adamant she couldn't tank the 90 dungeons because her gear was garbage (She derped and forgot entirely about the job gear lol) to tank EXRoulette for me.
She went in on her DRK still wearing level 80 Crystarium armor with a couple of dungeon pieces between 83 and 87. How she even had the ilvl I'll never know but aside from needing to use E-Diag slightly more often than the average for a pull, i was still able to heal her easily enough and keep her HP near full for entire mass pulls while spending the majority of GCDs on Toxikon and Dyskrasia.

But shes a good tank who knows how to use her cooldowns. And thats the difference. Tanks mitigation is way more important now than it used to be. Partially due to the early stages of our ilvls but also because of the stat squish.

Panhaima+Kerachole+Pepsis II+Dyskrasia to open a mass pull. Your tank will be nigh impossible to kill due to the combined 100/130/170 basically equating to spamming Diagnosis on the tank while also doing AoE.
Gets even better when you add Soteria to boost Kardia's effect.
If the mobs are still alive after that runs dry, Taurchole for the DR and mixing E-Diags between dps GCDs so you dont waste cooldowns before the next pack.
Also, loading up Eukrasia and holding it while using Toxikon/Dyskrasia can help with reactively dropping E-Diags to smooth out any damage spikes the tank suffers (Many of the larger dungeon mobs have mini tank busters)

I have actually found Sage to be the Healer that clicked best with me. SCH, AST and WHM just feel awkward and slow to me now :(

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Originally Posted by Sylve

100%, its the Tank not using their cooldowns. (...)

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Oh, yeah. I know. I always knew, I just didn't want to be mean. I only recently started playing it, and I thought maybe it was a little on me, but yeah, no. The sheer difference in DF tank skill level, where I could have a clean run, and the next a complete mess, with no real changes on my end, just proves it. I seem to be getting a large amount of bad tanks while leveling, and they sure are noticeable on a Sage.

um maybe I'm just playing it wrong but I also felt the single target healing was a bit weak? It's hard to notice because it felt really strong in dungeons and is great when everything is going smoothly but if you run out of cds I felt it was a bit hard compared to Sch

For example Pepsis isn't affected by the healing+ trait so at high levels it doesn't even convert all of the shield into hp, and also can't be affected by Zoe. Compared to Sch which can Recite Emergency Adlo and convert even the bonus critical shield into hp.. losing Kardia while Sch can still Embrace or Fey Union just feels like insult to injury

But well maybe you can just say it's balanced by other things? like being instant cast and also having lots of AoE heal. Well, that is just what I felt but I am not very good with shield healers so idk

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Originally Posted by lisaa

um maybe I'm just playing it wrong but I also felt the single target healing was a bit weak? It's hard to notice because it felt really strong in dungeons and is great when everything is going smoothly but if you run out of cds I felt it was a bit hard compared to Sch

For example Pepsis isn't affected by the healing+ trait so at high levels it doesn't even convert all of the shield into hp, and also can't be affected by Zoe. Compared to Sch which can Recite Emergency Adlo and convert even the bonus critical shield into hp.. losing Kardia while Sch can still Embrace or Fey Union just feels like insult to injury

But well maybe you can just say it's balanced by other things? like being instant cast and also having lots of AoE heal. Well, that is just what I felt but I am not very good with shield healers so idk

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Pepsis isn't converting the shield into a heal the same way ET does.
It's taking the shield buff and using it as fuel to trigger a 450/350 potency heal. Its not a Spell so Zoe and Krasis dont affect it. It's affected by the basic Mend/Maim Trait though not the Enhanced Healing magic one, Which just brings Diagnosis up to the potency of Pepsis. Pepsis actually stronger by default than raw Prognosis' 300p AoE heal.

Another mechanical difference that serves as a bonus is that Pepsis only consumes the Eukrasian Diagnosis Shield effect, NOT the Differential one from a crit.
If you need to burst some healing in:
Zoe+E-Diag = 8k HP restored, 14400 Shield.
Pepsis E-Diag = 8k HP restored
Followup E-Diag = 5500 HP restored, 9900 Shield.
Process takes about 2.5 seconds.

If a Gunbreaker had just used Superballache, You'd be dumping 30k EHP onto that tank in the span of 2.5 seconds, whcih is around 40% of a Tanks total HP. And thats without using Krasis or ANY direct healing oGCDs and without factoring in crits. Which is more than enough to oull them out of any danger they might happen to be in.

Recite-ET-Adloq provides a very similar amount of raw healing as the Sage Zoe-EDiag-Pepsis does in EHP.

Sage has a ton of tools to prevent the emergency situation from happening, while the Scholars tools are better at recovering from said emergency situation.

Similar tools used differently to achieve similar results.
Personally, I love Sage. It really clicked with me, more so than the other 3 Healers I'd been maining throughout Stormblood and Shadowbringers. Theres a lot you can do with its tools once you get to grips with the mechanics of them.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, Just trying to help you better understand the tools :D

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Originally Posted by Penthea

but it's not so bad as long as your tank knows what they're doing and the dps isn't low enough for the fights to last too long. From the little I have used of sage I am so far inclined to agree.

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Lol. Always assume people don't know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently not, because I have to focus heal too often. I can't even attempt to use a damage ability or some of these tanks are probably going to die on some pulls.

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So, being serious here... as a WHM main who is deeply enjoying SGE, and who has been talking to some friends who've struggled with the new job, there's something I know they stumbled with that I feel like it's worth noting. I don't know whether it's where you're having issues, Sturm, but it might be more generally useful to other folks even if not.

Nearly all of sage's AoE mitigation/buff options are entirely viable for single-target scenarios, such as dealing with the tank's damage during a big pull.

Already used Haima, so it's on cooldown? Panhaima makes a great backup! Yeah, Panhaima's only 6 stacks of 200 potency mitigation (the initial shield, plus the five 'backup' charges it puts on as a stacked buff to reapply the shield when it's depleted) instead of 300 potency, but that's still 1200 potency of mitigation on the tank for up to 15s, which honestly is a respectable single-target shield.

(As a bonus, it's also mitigation on all the DPS, in case they stand in the bad.)

Kerachole's just flat out 15s of 10% damage mitigation -- it's the same mitigation as Taurochole, as an AoE. (Minus Taurochole's up-front healing, replaced with a regen.)

Physis II is 650 potency of AoE regen healing over 15 seconds, but it also gives a 10s buff that increases all incoming healing by 10%; tossing that down for a little extra 'oomph' when a tank's seeming a bit squishy can really help buff your other healing.

Holos is only 300 potency of AoE heal, which seems pretty tiny... but it's also 20 seconds of 10% damage mitigation, which isn't nothing during a trash pull. You can throw that one down even if only the tank will benefit from the mitigation.

The fact that I have this veritable buffet of mitigation options -- even if some are AoEs rather than single target -- makes me feel like I have more than enough kit on sage to deal with basically anything. Possibly beyond what's reasonable.

A lot of people don't really understand that SAGE is not a reactionary healer. You need to preplan your healing and skill usage. There're so many mitigation skills in job's toolkit, all you need to do is to get familiar with them and rotate properly without using everything in one go.
(yes yes if tank melts anyway, might be a tank problem and not healer)

Am I the only one to regret the lack of dps capabilities on this job? (no, I guess).

I think it's a shame they wanted to make a healer based on his dps... And that we still have ONE main key to spam.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Am I the only one to regret the lack of dps capabilities on this job? (no, I guess).

I think it's a shame they wanted to make a healer based on his dps... And that we still have ONE main key to spam.

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This is one of my problems too. For Sage being advertised as such an amazing Healer DPS, they play like the other healers in the sense that they only have one button. Why advertise Sage as that meanwhile it plays the same as the other healers regarding DPS?

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Am I the only one to regret the lack of dps capabilities on this job? (no, I guess).

I think it's a shame they wanted to make a healer based on his dps... And that we still have ONE main key to spam.

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I mean, SGE actually has more reliable damage options than AST; who still only has Fall Malefic. Since the retconned Lord of Crowns is RNG and not reliable. My issue is that it’s not worth farming Toxicon stacks outside of downtime because they’re DPS negative otherwise. They’re only DPS neutral if you can proc them when a boss isn’t targetable; and DPS positive in cleaving situations, which aren’t all that prevalent usually in single-target raids. Pneuma being nerfed to be the same potency as Dosis III doesn’t surprise me, since it would have the Assize problem of never being used as a heal, but purely for damage. As it is now, it’s DPS neutral and a gain if you’re cleaving more than one target.

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

This is one of my problems too. For Sage being advertised as such an amazing Healer DPS, they play like the other healers in the sense that they only have one button. Why advertise Sage as that meanwhile it plays the same as the other healers regarding DPS?

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Were you expecting more? After playing this game for any considerable length of time, that’s an issue with your expectations. “DPS healer” or no, the developers’ stance on healer DPS abilities and combos is quite clear. I was more pleased to see that SGE actually had more than just 1 DoT, 1 nuke, 1 AOE. Now if they could adjust Toxicon to make it more worth farming, that would be lovely. But I won’t hold my breath for such an adjustment.

I feel like the ‘DPS Sage Healer’ the developers described is what we have now. The issue people are having is that they didn’t realise when developers said ‘dps healer’, they meant with the added caveat of being a dps healer in ffxiv. Which looks like current Sage.

Not saying that this invalidates anything said here but at the same time I do feel like perhaps if they were clearer about Sage being ‘ffxiv’s answer to a dps healer’, there would be less disappointment.

As someone who’s been a healer main since 4.0 (when I gave up on Bard lol)I can’t say I found it particularly surprising that it’s designed the way it is. Every healer has always had to have the same core so none can ever be left behind in content (theoretically).

Then when it came to the DPS, I think they intended to design it around constantly deciding whether to use Dosis, Phlegma or Toxicon to maximise dps as appropriate; no current healer has to make decisions on which dps skill to use outside of maybe White Mages neglecting Misery because lilies are a dps loss. The most glaring issue with that of course being that Toxicon requires using a GCD on Eukrasian Diagnosis even though it’s the same potency as Dosis III, which requires using a GCD on nothing but itself.

I think Sage makes a lot more sense if you think about it as being more of a supporter than a damage dealer or standard healer. It has weaker healing but supplements it with buffs, focuses more on damage than standard healer but less than tank or dps, and is able to provide additional effects whilst dealing damage (healing). Off the top of my head I think one way to make Sage’s dps more engaging would be to increase the potency of the Kardion effect based on the spell. So like Pneuma could remain as the big AoE heal with Kardion effects similar to Cure I. Toxicon could increase to a stronger Kardion effect, like maybe Cure II or something. Lastly Dosis would remain as the current Embrace-like potency for Kardion heals. I’m not sure about Phlegma, maybe higher than Dosis but lower than Toxicon?
That way, when it comes time to heal, you’ll be just as likely to consider your dps options as you would Addersgall, which would make the job feel more like it’s ‘healing through dealing damage’ as many expected it to.

And of course please increase the damage potency of Toxicon II. Having Addersting proc from shields is a cool way to have healing feed into dps and incentivises using shields (something Scholar hasn’t really done in a while). But the potency of Toxicon means that anytime I try to prepare Toxicon, I end up leaking damage because I had to use GCDs on Eukrasian Diagnosis (diagnoses? lol).. Honestly, I’d support if the developers just decided to make Toxicon II 660 potency for the first target to make it completely dps neutral. I worry that that’d maybe make it too strong though lol, so maybe even just 510 potency like Phlegma so it’s not as big of a dps loss

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Originally Posted by Connor

Then when it came to the DPS, I think they intended to design it around constantly deciding whether to use Dosis, Phlegma or Toxicon to maximise dps as appropriate; no current healer has to make decisions on which dps skill to use outside of maybe White Mages neglecting Misery because lilies are a dps loss. The most glaring issue with that of course being that Toxicon requires using a GCD on Eukrasian Diagnosis even though it’s the same potency as Dosis III, which requires using a GCD on nothing but itself.

I think Sage makes a lot more sense if you think about it as being more of a supporter than a damage dealer or standard healer. It has weaker healing but supplements it with buffs, focuses more on damage than standard healer but less than tank or dps, and is able to provide additional effects whilst dealing damage (healing). Off the top of my head I think one way to make Sage’s dps more engaging would be to increase the potency of the Kardion effect based on the spell. So like Pneuma could remain as the big AoE heal with Kardion effects similar to Cure I. Toxicon could increase to a stronger Kardion effect, like maybe Cure II or something. Lastly Dosis would remain as the current Embrace-like potency for Kardion heals. I’m not sure about Phlegma, maybe higher than Dosis but lower than Toxicon?
That way, when it comes time to heal, you’ll be just as likely to consider your dps options as you would Addersgall, which would make the job feel more like it’s ‘healing through dealing damage’ as many expected it to.

And of course please increase the damage potency of Toxicon II. Having Addersting proc from shields is a cool way to have healing feed into dps and incentivises using shields (something Scholar hasn’t really done in a while). But the potency of Toxicon means that anytime I try to prepare Toxicon, I end up leaking damage because I had to use GCDs on Eukrasian Diagnosis (diagnoses? lol).. Honestly, I’d support if the developers just decided to make Toxicon II 660 potency for the first target to make it completely dps neutral. I worry that that’d maybe make it too strong though lol, so maybe even just 510 potency like Phlegma so it’s not as big of a dps loss

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So much this, if they shuffled around the potency of Toxicon and Dosis it would feel SO much more rewarding.