Endwalker Main Scenario Commentary & Feedback

just finished the 5th area and HOLY SHIT that was intense, so far absolutly fucking astounding

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Originally Posted by TheCookieGod

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

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I agree with you. The main story was amazing and one of the best FF stories ever told, but yeah, what you describe is on point.

Without spoilers, but have you thought about how much work went into this?

The entire layout of the second area is built to make this possible. All the places with fights are not QUITE in sight of any place before the spoiler. From the western edge, everything looks, and always will look normal.

And it's amazing.

End of MSQ Spoilers

I think that the most brilliant insight that the Endwalker scenario writers had was when they realized halfway through that a depressed Kefka and a bored Sephiroth just weren't going to cut it as main villains, and rescued the plot with the Convocation and Loporrits. Hyth, Emet, and Venat absolutely hard carried the MSQ. They also very cleverly fleshed out Azem's persona through your mentor while leaving plenty of room for personal interpretation (and grape/volcano references, if you wanted to play into it). It's wonderful how closely our current family of nerds trying to save the world mirrors our old one.

Alright, I am steadily making my way through Zone Five. And so, my thoughts.

Goddamn time travel.

Now that that's out of the way—the characters in Elpis—including Elpis itself—are all very charming. There is a lot of innocence to be had here, and not simply in the form of Meteion. Consider the blasé approach the Ancients take to ending the lives of their creations.

On the same subject, it is a little weird to treat that as anything particularly odd. I mean, if you're a crafter, odds are you've killed thousands of mobs for their drops. And even if you're not, given all the dungeons and quests in this game you're bound to have killed many things simply for being in your way, or on your way to something you wanted to do.

But that said—the innocent way they unmake their creations is reminiscent of the way people are unmade by the effects of the Final Days.

Speaking of Meteion, she is cute as a button and I love her. I'm afraid I've been a bit spoiled regarding her. Just a bit. But I would like to see how this goes. Also neat to see that she's been imbued with the same powers that are later known as the Echo. They kept the 5.2 revelation that this was a natural thing for the Ancients, but it's interesting to see that they can grant an artificial version of it. I just hope she doesn't turn into Zenos. That would be awful.

Emet-Selch describes the process of transformation to be vainglorious. So says the Sorcerer of Eld (tremble before his glory). I can't help but wonder if either of his Hades forms in Shadowbringers are as much an extension of Zodiark's tempering as they are him simply showing off.

The means of altering and erasing memories—it's not surprising that the Ancients would have such a thing. Given that Hermes—rather, Fandaniel—was the one to make it, I can't help but wonder at Amon's cutting off Owen's research... which in part lead to our cure for Tempering. Or his acceptance of our means to shield others from Tempering, preventing their memories (among other things) from being altered by primal energies.

Hermes being such a bleeding heart is such a fantastic shift from his earlier (later?) appearance as Amon and Fandaniel. It makes me wonder if Fancy Dan was lying, even to himself, about the disconnect he felt from the memories of his Ancient self. That rather than having rejected it, he became a person split across two perspectives—the sadistic and cruel Amon and the empathetic and intro/extrospective Hermes—and this coupled with latching onto the views of the Emperor Xande clone is what led to him becoming so intensely nihilistic.

And then I hit a level barrier.

EDIT: Holy hell, talk about an intro. Venat, you are amazing. And it is fascinating to see the trio of friends expand to a quartet, and one that feels as natural as this.

I suppose this confirms that the Blessing of Light is not tempering at all. Which, well, is nice to see confirmed instead of not being discussed at all. It is simply a mark of protection—I imagine it is just a means by which Hydaelyn takes bullets meant for us, so to speak. Which is to say I still don't agree with the aggressive "It's always been the Blessing of Light that protects you" approach from earlier in the story, with no mention of the Echo's protection. But I can see why they stressed that it protects us, at least.

They continue to straddle the line in regards to time travel rules—suggesting that we might change this fellowship's future, but not our own. But as mentioned earlier, the entire reason Elidibus sent us here is because he remembered us being there. Time will tell if this is a closed loop, a split timeline, or some weird thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around...

… oh my God. I was not prepared to have all my criticisms of Hydaelyn's behavior be taken up by Venat herself. I just, I am, I can't... I think I've found my favorite character in this expansion. Thank you, Ishikawa, for actually making me love this woman. Maybe not as much as Ryne or Minfilia, but I'll be damned if my expectations weren't subverted in this best way I could hope for.

EDIT 02: Finished the dungeon. Saw all I needed to see. 10/10 delivery. I am now entirely sold on this character. But holy hell, time travel headaches.

Final Edit: I have finished with the fifth zone, and enjoyed every moment of it—and while I expected to do so, everything about that zone surpassed my expectations.
I will probably get down to finishing tomorrow or the next day.

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Originally Posted by TheCookieGod

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

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I felt the exact same way...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheCookieGod

Just here to rant a little, as it's 5am and I just finished.

End of the MSQ spoilers

There were only two moments I really did not like in this expansion, and they were both the bits with Zenos. The body hopping was gross and awful and it served LITERALLY NO PURPOSE. Nothing came out of that whole scenario. It exists only to be upsetting and violate the WoL. The entire premise is flawed, because if Fandaniel can just teleport the WoL, incapacitate them OFF SCREEN, and swap our soul around, there is zero reason that the WoL should not already be dead. We would never have even managed to defeat Lahabrea if the ascians could do something that casually.

But even if that moment hadn't existed, I never would have fought Zenos if given an actual choice. With everything he has done, he doesn't deserve to get what he wants. I don't like the writers forcibly characterizing the WoL as Goku - always wanting to fight strong opponents. My WoL is not Goku and has zero desire to be Goku. Either let us characterize the WoL as we like, or drop this concept entirely and let the WoL be a character in the story. This middle of the road nonsense needs to stop.

Zenos' presence in the story has been utterly pointless since his death in Stormblood, and the story would be stronger if he had just remained dead. I'm of the mind that the writers probably agree with me, seeing as Zenos did absolutely nothing in Endwalker of note. "Well we brought Zenos back, but it turns out we don't actually need him for the story we decided to tell."

The only thing that Zenos actually did in Endwalker was be the floor for the final boss. You know what else is good at being the floor? The floor.

Literally the only thing of note that Zenos did after his death in Stormblood and before Endwalker was kill Varis. Fandaniel could have just as easily accomplished that same task, and then done the same things with Garlemald using Varis' corpse as a puppet before eventually making it into Anima.

Or, if Zenos had to stick around, have him be the one who gets to pilot Zodiark. Fandaniel escapes, Zenos is out of story, and then we don't have to fight three different versions of Fandaniel in one expansion. Twice was satisfying, three times was a bit silly.

Zenos was a plot device, and not a particularly good one, and it served only to mar an otherwise amazing expansion's story. The end.

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I can only agree 100% with this

When Endsinger said someone was trying to break in, I was saying to myself I hoped it wasn't Zenos, and behold, there he was.

A big part of the finale imo hinges on how big a Zenos fan you are, and for someone who wanted him to be left behind in SB it was near awful. The whole final part was a clear attempt to set it up as FFXIV's version of Cloud and Sephiroth's final battle in FFVII.

Zenos could be removed from EW and the story would not have suffered, might even be better.

I kinda wanna glamour the chicken suit and watch the final fist fight again, just for the lols.

LvL 88 and ready to write some ramblings on my experiences with this expansion. Right now though Shadowbringers is still in the top but the later parts of this expansion have at least made it another very good experience too.

I do have to say though that imo SE should have taken down the number of "escord quests"...there were situations where it was fitting but other times I wish we could have decided if we explore the place ourself or not. But I get the feeling that SE really likes to milk their new systems to death.

I am also not doing most of the side quests right now because I want to do the MSQ as smooth as possible, so no spoilers about those in any of my comments.

Old Sharlayan (including its other zone)

I really liked the arrival at this city. From finally talking to Hydealyn again to seeing the city the first time. It was great. Since I was interested about Hydaelyn the most I also started the split there. Labyrinthos was fine, it did feel a bit boring at times. Still some good humor and some good informations at the end. Also got the feeling that Hydealyn was good and really wanted to help us.

I snickered a bit when the forum scene came and they took away my characters second pair of horns. Just the idea that she casually puts them away for that. Krile and her ponytail was cute though.

Still the whole part left me feeling slightly frustrated because not a single one of the scions even thought about the zone being some kind of bunker...even if that may or may not be its true purpose. Also not sure how to feel about the blessing of light suddenly being the thing that stops tempering...so we could have bascially became tempered when Middy took it away? Well thank god then that we somehow did not have a fight.

Otherwise the city itself was beautiful and I could see myself living there.

Also the mother of the twins is a delight. But nobody in this game really wants to hug or show too much emotion at such reunions or goodbyes which is a bit sad...

Thavnair

Another beautiful map. I enjoyed the characters and the locations. I loved the part with Vrthra and Estinien and that we finally have a child of Middy that just really really loves these humans and that would even ignore his brothers cry for help. I hope he survives it all.

I groaned a bit when our elephant lady (sorry really bad with names) just walked so far away from us...did everyone just forget that these towers spawn horrible monsters? And did our character just forget that Fanny boy was near just a short while ago? I did not came as a big suprise that she then was caught...the scene where she was put in was still horrible.

The lore drop about Fandaniel was fascinating..but also like "of course its somehow connected to Allagans again".

First dungeon and aftermath

I liked the visuals and the fights really were spicy. Of course I still got to get a feeling for the summoner too. Still strange how easily we not only found a solution for the tempering problem but also for the destruction of the tower itself. The writers also love to use either Ysthola or Graha for spells that needs to save people. It does come in handy that he learned that one just a bit ago and was good enough to save all of us. I think it was a bit too much but of course I am also happy that the NPCs were saved.

Vrthras words at that time felt like a bit of a death flag. Like SE was forshadowing that we will again lose some people dear to us. Having the twins in the scene after the talk really did not help.

The new concept was nicely introduced and I already felt that it would be one the most important parts of the expansion.

The "eating" scene was fantastic and I really felt that the words from the dragon still haunted our character.

Garlemald including its dungeon

For me this was the worst zone of the whole expansion. I really love Ishgard but I still dont like most of its zones because of the snow...so having Garlemald be mostly that just made it not appealing. I also dont like their architecture at all.

This all combined with the fact that the Garleans we met first back stab us all really got on my nerves. I did not really feel sad for the two sisters and I deeply wished that Qintus would not be someone we would have to rely on...after all we came to him with two "children" and did everything Jullus said. And as a thank you he puts these collars on them both and later uses the oil to power war machines instead of the train.

Then they go and cry about their past that is hundreds of years gone. Yes it was horrible that you were driven out of your own homeland but you have built yourself a new nation. A nation that seeminlgy even had a summer phase. And then he goes on about how we did not accept being one under Garlemald...the same country that should know how it feels to get their country taken away.

Thankfully Jullus was a good character. We learned about his suffering and even though he was harsh, he still had a good heart.

I was grateful that we did not have to deal with Quintus for too long. I dont think peace would have truly been an option with someone like him around.

Of course when all was good, the tragedy has to strike. And somehow we get captured....The things that follow are good and bad. I do like that we felt helpless but everything else was not that great. Yes Zenos said that he enjoyed the feelings he got when he was in the other bodies but unlike us he had a mostly save ride back to his own. I dont get it why they thought it was good to drop us into the destroyed city...we barely made it out alive. What would Zenos have done if we died there? Also what did it really do for the story? The scions saw throught it right away and somehow eventhough we were crawling on the floor, the WoL managed to reach them right in time to stop him from doing any damage. They could have at least made another RP fight were he hurts them a bit before leaving. After it was over it felt like padding...like giving Zenos something to do...as if our character would need even more motives to go after him...

Zone after Garlemald / First trial

Well we already go to the moon but thankfully Hydealny has bought us some time. The place is kinda empty but still beautiful and I really like the ancient here.

I am not sure what I should think about the shades. I guess it answers the question that they still exist. But quite a few seems to not really accept their fate? Or was it just the fact that "they" could no longer act as the will of the planet? Anyway my heart felt heavy when Hythlo appears...I wonder if Azem was also so against Zodiark because they knew he would be one of those that would sacrifice themselves? But at least he seems to be on our side which is good.

Also golden good boi is best boi! And he should get all the pets in the world. I am sure now that Hydealyn cant be evil if that is her servant.

Of course Fan Fan and Zenos had to destroy the good mood by being there but at least Fandaniel also destroyed Zenos plan and took over Zodiark himself.

At least in the following cutscene its clear that the shades dont want the planet to be destroyed. I am though not sure what he does with their souls? Are they released at the end or did he completely absorb them?

As the first trial we fight Zodiark and after that Fanny boi reveals his evil masterplan. I do like it that we would have lost any way. If we had not fought him he would have destroyed the world with his own hand (and after that himself anyways).

First I did not like what they have done with Zodiark. But after a bit of thinking it makes sense. In all those years he always has been the tool. Even the Ascians wanted him to be complete so that they can get their people back and live a great awesome life again. So its fitting that in the end he just remained another ones tool. A tool that was created to forestall the Final Days, the real threat.

A few pages back I read (before doing that zone) that Hydaelyn was shown in a too good light even though she was fine with sacrifing the shards. After reading that I feared that this would be the point were we will find out that she is another "bad" guy to be disposed off. After doing it myself I am honestly not sure were that view comes from. It was quite clear that she was not all knowing thus she simply prepared another route if we should fail. I really doubt that she would be fine with the destruction of the other liveforms but in the end if it came to the worst, she would at least be able to save a few. Her goal was still though to not lose any at all.

Then came the rabbits...the tiny cute adorable awesome rabbits. Which I wanted to hug and pet all day. And the shocking information that the moon was a freaking space ship. After that it was 100% clear what Sharlayan was up too.

I really enjoyed my time with the rabbits.

Next dungeon + new Zone (holy mother of Hydaelyn awesome)

So of course poor Thavnair was the first to get hit (cant do much with the old zones after all) and it was gut wrenching. Finally the game hit the notes it did in Shadowbringers with the sin eaters. But this time even their souls would be gone. It was absolutely shocking and kept me on my toes, especially with best boi Elephant and the baby.

Vrthra continues being the most awesome dragon in the world and finally even overcomes his own worries.

The final days really feel like a huge threat and with every NPC death I just imagined that their souls would now be gone...for me this is probably the most horrible fate one can have. (Okay Fandaniel would have loved it...)

Afterwards we have a bit of a break and the WoL is tasked with going to the first and visiting Elidibus. Thankfully all is still good there. The talk with Elidibus was emotional but I could not stop my laughter with his little resentment at the end towards Hydealyn. I wonder if he will think different when he knows the whole truth behind it.

I was a bit afraid of the time traveling part and at the end I was left a bit disappointed but for other reasons. The zone was beautiful and our partners awesome. Hythlo is such a kind and beautiful person with a good sense of humor and you could really see Emets personality shining through. I wish we could have more adventures with them. Also it does kinda confirm that the tempering (and probably thousands of years of their mission) really did change Emet. After all they did know about death. They even choose it themseves if they wanted to. I guess the difference was that with the Final days people could indeed not choose it.

Venat was another delight. And a lot of the stuff around Hydaelyn makes even more sense.

Up until the end I hoped that we would be able to save their timeline after all the talk about not being able to change our future but maybe theirs...turns out that of course thats not possible because of that stupid memory device. So everything happens as it was meant to be also because Venat decides to keep most of it to herself. I really dont get the logic behind it.

At least the zone did show that even at that time the Ancients had a bit of a problem of seeing anything not them as something alive. When Hermes said goodbye to that one creation I was in tears. I wished our character could have said a bit at that. But any kind of sympathy for Hermes went out of the window at the end. He was ready to let millions of liveforms die...including all of his creations that he suffered for...

Honestly that zone was probably the most depressing one right now. To give us a glimpse of it, to talk about how it would not change our future but maybe theirs just to end it like that...all my hopes that we might have used their future to maybe journey to their cities in some side quests in future expansion...all gone T_T

Edit: Great kicked from my 1.000 queue and three 2002 when trying to log in again...of course now I am back to 7.400...I just want to continue the story....T_T

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

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Originally Posted by Nick_Andrews

My first complaint about Endwalker's MSQ

Yes, introduce us a new character only to be killed off together with another character that we have never met offscreen in the next quest. Seriously, what's the point in introducing these characters to us if you're just gonna kill them off? What, was it to challenge Alphinaud's ideals and make him question whether what we're doing is the right thing to do? Haven't we gotten that point already with the Crystal Braves??? It's pointless and waste of time. That's not good writing.

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Which zone you talking about? Garlemald? If yes, I think if wasn't meant for the character development of Alphinaud. The focus was simply the tragedy of the nation that is Garlemald. All these people you meet is there to show how f'ed up they were raised. Remind yourself that Garlemald was our Nr.1 enemy country that had beliefs and ideals that almost mirror Nazi Germany. They were raised to see other nations/races with hostility and as their inferiors. Garlemald Empire started almost four generations ago, starting from Solus to his great-grandson Zenos but even before that they already existed as a Republic for centuries. Garleans did not really have a great history with other magical races, so starting with Solus' generation, their hate even intensified.

After finishing the MSQ, I just have to say... damn.

I didn't think they could outdo ShB, but they did. Everything was on point. The zones, the music, the character work, the moments... might be my favorite RPG ever.

I just wanted to log on to congratulate all involved in delivering this expansion. I take back anything negative I said about the game in recent years. When the story and world is this compelling, I can overlook the game design / content progression model being almost unchanged since ARR. Endwalker more than lives up to the legacy of Final Fantasy. Taken as a single player game it is perhaps the greatest tale yet, the deepest examination of life and why we fight.

At the moment I don't have anything coherent to say except 'OMG!' Followed by 'emotional roller-coaster much?!'

I hoped it would be good - maybe even as good as ShB - but it has blown me away. Not quite at the end yet but I'm not expecting to be disappointed. And I will have sensible, lore-based stuff to say once I manage to re-engage my brain

(Longer than expected pause)

So finally finished tonight, took longer getting to the end than I had hoped due to work/queues/RL. I have lots to say (as always) some of it is more critical analysis than points of lore and some of it is just me squeeing loudly

Also need to check I can remember how to do spoiler tags

hidden text

Fab, yes I do!

RE: The Pandemonium stinger

My boy is back, and I friggin' squealed so loud I scared my cat

Managed to finish it late last night (Sunday). No skipping (though I did clip some dialog short because of certain characters I hate after I read the dialog) and did a couple of extra things inc. unlocking flying and un-fogging each zone map. Not necessarily on the lore front, though I'm sure there will be argument there as well, but I have a feeling this expansion/patch could be quite controversial. In many ways, it's very much NOT ShB while still very much needing ShB to have existed.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Not necessarily on the lore front, though I'm sure there will be argument there as well, but I have a feeling this expansion/patch could be quite controversial. In many ways, it's very much NOT ShB while still very much needing ShB to have existed.

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Agreed. I feel like ShB laid a foundation that they didn't decide to use in EW, opting to instead go with new construction. Frankly, if I didn't know better I would've assumed the story had been handled by someone else with a different vision than who wrote ShB, so the direction of EW was surprising. I was expecting and hoping for a continuation of moral greyness only to get black & white. I was telling a lore friend that it essentially killed most debate because the majority of the nuance that existed in ShB was stripped away in EW.

I think that EW was a good expansion on its own, but it was not the spiritual successor of ShB for me. Having said that, my favorite part of EW wouldn't have hit as hard as it did without ShB.

I think the only issue I had, unless I missed it somewhere, is that

We never answered Venat's question after the Trial.

Quick take.

After Elpis, I lost interest. The Labyrinthos segment could be much smaller (it reeks of filler) and after that its just... I don't know, too much fluff and too predictable. It felt way off.

I still liked it, but again after Elpis it becomes pretty mediocre. Honestly it looks rushed and unfinished.

So, just finished MSQ and while this is a pretty fitting ending. I did have some thoughts

Absolutely agree on an earlier point with Zenos

While I adore Venat as a character, I'm gonna have to say I don't like Hydaelyn. It's just that There was a considerable amount of hand waving explanations regarding her behavior. To the point she shared quite a bit of Mary Sue traits...It's not that being a Mary Sue in itself can be a bad thing.

I like the fact as Venat she can be seen as a mentor. I just don't like fact she somehow thought of everything for the future. It was to the point it actually broke me out of engaging story telling and kinda was like "really?"

I'll repeat again. The recordings of Anamnesis Anyder not really matching up to Final Days scene in Elpis. I was like...wait... but I suppose it's now why we'll kinda have to wait for the 24 man. I just felt like there was a disconnect and put TOO much in Venat taking everything alone when it didn't seem it was the case, nor we really hear what happened to our Azem during that time (I apologize if I missed it since there were times I was faceplanting due to trying to get through the story for fear of awful queue times)?

"Oh that part with her and Zodiak - yeah that was an embellishment"

Hythlodaeus probably broke me emotionally the most. He was incredibly gifted in sight but couldn't do much else and admitted as such but still did his best.

I get that the writers had to tie everything in to explain certain gaps but I think there was too much and waving in Hydaelyn's behavior and could "do no wrong" kind of apologists will get out of it instead of realizing both choices on both ends were equally difficult. Though did feel like there could have been more communication but meh... I guess there's that.


I actually like the sundering decision. Makes sense.

Now saying all that, I probably would have enjoyed Hydaelyn and Zodiark more if the foundation was really there, but we all know they kinda retconned and repurposed the story to make sense.

Emotionally it was fantastic and won't lie if I shed a few tears at certain scenes

I do want to say the devs and staff did a tremendous job on this (ten) year journey and I feel this expansion is so fitting from a broken 1.0 launch. Thank you for delivering this product that I've spent many years enjoying.

Thank you so much and much love overall.

Basic meal in Sharlayan.

So basically the standard for a meal is like any other college. Fast food and a Starbucks.

At least we know G'raha Tia enjoys his hamburger. Also, Alisaie being that person who hates pickles in her hamburger.

The theme for the 6.0 storyline.

The theme for 6.0 is greatly about life and death.

It is about the value of life and the despair from life that may make people yearn for death.

We all value life in our own way and we always strive to find a reason to continue living either for ourselves or for others. However, it is not easy for everyone because of their conditions in their own life.

It is always easy to yearn for death and even go into a dark corner to think about bringing death to everything that exists because in the end it all means nothing once we die or when time finally cause a event that undo everything a person achieved. We as beings who only live below 100 years also will never know the pain of those who can live longer as those who live longer will achieve more things but at the sametime they will experience more despair and loss than us to a point it becomes hard to not give into the darker nature of wanting to destroy everything since the thought about everything eventually becomes pointless becomes stronger.

There is also the concept of how people views and values life of others. As we seen in the Garlean side of things, while there are some who were willing to join the fight into Garlemald to help save the Garleans, far more refused because they will not help people they have seen as enemies for generations and for the actions of their people. However, this story does bring up the a very important thing about the life of others.

Despite differences in nations, ideology, beliefs, and physical aspects we are all still living beings. The actions of others cannot be determined as the actions of everyone even among nations. When we stop viewing each other by the concept of nations( from prejudice beliefs to political differences) and start focusing more on each other as just living beings, we will find that we all have some kind of common ground despite our differences. That our lives are neither above nor lower than one another but equally valuable as each other.

It is a lesson a lot of people need to learn in the real world as well because people give into prejudice and hatred towards people simply because of what nation they are from thus reacting more towards the person's nation rather than trying to see them as a individual person instead.

Reflections post-MSQ

Venat's character was the real hidden gem of this expansion.

Emet and Hyth were natural extensions of their Shadowbringers personas. Even a mere passing mention of Emet was always going to be well received. This expansion merely consolidated his S-tier status, especially now that he's been confirmed to be the long-suffering Y'shtola equivalent for your old team. Hyth was excellently fleshed out this expansion, but he was likewise a safe bet from the outset, given how positive of a response his bit part in Shadowbringers garnered. I really wish that there was a side-by-side picture of Yoshi-p/Foxclon with that in-game scene where Emet/Hyth read out the sales pitch on the next few expansions worth of ideas.

There are so many ways that they could have gone wrong with Venat, but they pulled her character off magnificently. While the few side-story snippets that we had of Azem from the time of Shadowbringers were really compelling, the difficulty with writing a character for the PC is that some players aren't going to buy into that persona because it's just not... them. Venat's writing circumvents this problem brilliantly by turning her into the resident trickster goddess and you her protégé. It's fairly easy to dismiss her character until you realize that she single-handedly made Hydaelyn interesting (in fairness, this is partially helped by the fact that Hydaelyn's beast tribe is an army of smol rabbits that are determined to help you whether you want them to or not). There's this brilliant moment where Emet notes in dismay that Azem 1 and Azem 2 are up to it again as you and Venat recklessly ride away on flying dogs, and it just feels... great.

I'm trying to think of a scene that matches up to Shadowbringers' showdown with Emet in terms of impact value. I think that it would have been easy to just try for a bigger and better final showdown, but they didn't need to in this case. For me, the real climax comes down to that showdown in Ktisis Hyperboreia, with Hyth's magnificent bastard gambit, and culminating with Emet's wry smile on the fade to white. Everything after is just denouement. So much rewatch value.

Honorable mentions go out to Hermes for being a compelling character.

It looks like pretty much any story that they write about your past life with the Convocation is pretty much going to be solid gold at this point. That ending screenshot of both your families converging and intersecting was icing on the cake.

I think this might be the first expansion with no lows for me. I finished it all and dont really have much to say other than just well done CBU3.

Okay so I still have one thing I didn't found answer for that I wanted to know..
Azem Spoilers

Why did our Azem defect & why did they refuse to join Venat's group I've been so curious why we did that & unless it's in a side quest I'm bit sad we didn't get an answer.

Zenos/End spoilers

I'm.. disappointed that he was brought back to do nothing & I'm fan of him unlike many haters I didn't mind him being brought back.
Outside of Deus ex saving us then almost killing us after I was let down that it ended no change no grand fight that instance was fun but not what I'd expect.
I was hoping either a Goldbez route of him becomign good or Kefka/Sep/Kuja & go God form for a final boss & at this point I feel like he may be better left dead, every scene was pointless & served little reason for story progression like body snatching he did naught with it at least maim one of our friends.

Zenos resolution was clever.

They salvaged his arc by essentially having him to 4th wall break by recognizing our desire as a player to fight strong foes and win.

And when we defeated him he essentially asked if "we had fun" up until now

Lv90 trial spoilers

So during the phase transition Meteoin confirms that limit breaking is Dynamis

I enjoyed it a lot overall. It's a satisfying conclusion. The pacing is kinda all over the place.

The pacing in the second part of Labyrinthos is awful. Especially since its pointless filler because you end up just using the ark to go fight Meteion instead of its use to escape to the moon.

The Scions sacrificing themselves in the final zone is stupid because at this point we all know they have plot armor and would be coming back.

I think Meteion is going to be divisive. If you've played other Final Fantasy games its a very Final Fantasy boss, its heroes vs. concept

Everything spoilers.

This expansion had a lot of highs and lows for me, it felt like it tried to redo a lot of the parts that made Shadowbringers good but instead of building upon things already established and teased throughout the previous parts of the game like in Shadowbringers, they for some reason felt the need to S U B V E R T E X P E C T A T I O N S and introduce entirely new rules of the universe and a new main villain in the homestretch.

I get that its almost a staple in FF to introduce random cosmic threat in the last 30 minutes, but Meteion felt so out of place in as the main antagonist in a story that was built up to be hydaelyn vs zodiark for the past 8 years. Then they felt the need to make the Power of Friendship a tangible force of nature and make it the driving force for everything in the plot which was just insanely cheesy and I couldn't help but cringe every time someone brought up despair/hope.

Somehow Hydaelyn really was just playing 4D chess along, even though they just spent an entire expansion before it making her out to just be another Primal and that maybe the Light wasn't all that good only to complete sideline and underutilize that plotline from ShB. The dungeon leading up to her was pretty underwhelming the bosses had ugly designs and their mechanics felt unfinished. The fight with Hydaleyn felt like half a fight as well, I kept waiting for phase two or a new mechanic to show up but that was really it (and good god did those waves of light look laughably bad).

The last dungeon felt like they tried to do Amaurot 2.0, only without any of the build up. Just slapping you over the head with T H E M E S and look how sad this world was before they wanted to all die :( . Like after 15 hours of hearing about how all these other worlds lost everything to despair, and spending a whole zone dedicated to more worlds that lost everything to despair, only to have a DUNGEON dedicated to more worlds that lost everything to despair I think It was clear.

I really don't like this trend of when writers don't know how to end a story so they just subvert everyones expectations and introduce so many new elements in the homestretch. The stuff with Dynamis and Meteion could have been good as its own expansion, but using it as the end of the story arc that was built up for 8 years just felt really hamfisted and forced.

The level 60 Bard quest. From Heavensward. Did they plan this out that far?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

Okay so I still have one thing I didn't found answer for that I wanted to know..
Azem Spoilers

Why did our Azem defect & why did they refuse to join Venat's group I've been so curious why we did that & unless it's in a side quest I'm bit sad we didn't get an answer.

---

That was actually my same concern as well

I have a feeling they're going to possibly reveal this with the Twelve storyline for the 24 man raid

Zenos/End spoilers

Quote:

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I'm.. disappointed that he was brought back to do nothing & I'm fan of him unlike many haters I didn't mind him being brought back.
Outside of Deus ex saving us then almost killing us after I was let down that it ended no change no grand fight that instance was fun but not what I'd expect.
I was hoping either a Goldbez route of him becomign good or Kefka/Sep/Kuja & go God form for a final boss & at this point I feel like he may be better left dead, every scene was pointless & served little reason for story progression like body snatching he did naught with it at least maim one of our friends.

---

Regarding that

This is the end of the MSQ but I doubt sadly it's the end of Zenos actually. I think he's the cartoon villain shaking his fist "NEXT TIME, NEXT TIME"

But I think there's probably more in store for him.

There's still questions I have about him as well. Like since he was able to recall the Final Days....what is he since his recollection of those days was BEFORE he was experimented on.
I think that may be addressed in future patches and I'm actually expecting him to somehow return

Other thoughts on MSQ

Level 87 arc

I wanted to mention how utterly heartbreaking it was in the Thavnir storyline when all hell broke loose. The scene where the young child turns into one of the beasts, and it was so small - only to be stomped on by a larger beast was devastating. The mother trying to protect her child was also another gut wrenching scene, even when with our Fisherman trying to escape with the child

About Hydaelyn

As I stated in another post. I did like that she had reasons for sundering since it made us more capable of fighting Dynamis - but I do have some qualms again

I feel like Venat being a "loner" in the MSQ didn't really help the theme of how we work together. It pretty much came off as she thought of everything "Strong independent woman that don't need anyone in her life" but somehow cares about all? I felt that kind of writing was a bit off putting. The thing that made subsequent expansions better was the coming together of our teams or people around us. So while I love Venat something is left to be desired on some fronts of her Hydaelyn independent decision making. I'm hoping the 24 man addresses this with the Twelve.

It also leaves some questions about why some wore white robes and also why the process of returning to the star is basically voluntary retirement. I get a bit why Venat did not...but what are the consequences if the entire population felt that way?

Also, Hydaelyn sundered for a 2 front - to bind Zodiark but to make us capable of fighting Dynamis - an idea she garnered from seeing our past self interact. That said. I am a little confused as to why besides the cool aspect of fighting Hydaelyn was she the test to be able to know if we're capable of fighting Dynamis - when she herself stated she couldn't really control that aspect as an Aetherial being?

I also like that we have a proper name for our planet/star: Etheirys

I didn't think I'd ever feel bad for robot people being battle junkies but...thanks SE here we are

I want to read the notes on the Final MSQ dungeon... will have to go in with trusts.

Speaking of trusts - will also go into the Elpis dungeon with trusts because I hear that's a real treat as well.

I was a little sad that the Final Days weather condition didn't actually show through all the realms. Coming back to my home I just hear and see the same old - kinda making the Final Dreams feel like a bad beer party I left instead of world impending doom.



Dragons - we still have one last brood member to reveal: Azdaja I'm hoping the reason for lack of reveal also has to do with the kind of pact Hydaelyn made with Midgardsormor

sorry for typos and spelling - I don't have my glasses on and will fix it up later

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I think the only issue I had, unless I missed it somewhere, is that

We never answered Venat's question after the Trial.

---

About her question

I think we kind of answered it by defeating her. Showing her true actions that the journey made us strong in body but especially in mind. At least this is how I think it could be seen.

About the rest of the story: I am at the last map and will write more about that later when I have it all done. Sadly seeing the huge queue right now I fear that it might not be today.

Edit:

About Venat and Azem (lvl 57+ on spoilers!)

I do like that she was the Azem before "us" and seeing how that role was to travel and basically solve problems its understandable how she simply does not want to "die" when she gave up her position to "our" Azem.

Still seeing how sad she was about the stuff we had to go through I kinda wonder what they even had to deal at their time since they were so unused to despair that the group of Ancients did not listen to her at all. (Also did she turn Hydaeyln at that moment when she drew her sword? It does not make sense timeline wise since Hydealyn was only greated after Zodiark restored everything to how it was...)

And I wonder how much time had passed after our visit.

I really love what they did with the Acient trio in this game but I am also a bit disappointed that our Azem barely played a role. We heard some things from the other three but we still dont know why Venat seemingly never told them the truth...or did she say something and this is why they were never seen in both situations? To remain free to be reborn into us? First I thought that we were fighting the thing that caused the sound but since Endsinger was resting in space that theory goes out of the window.

Plenty of lighter things to think about, but this one has been gnawing away at me since level 81, so I'm posting it now, and separately, just to get it out of my head.

Post-credits spoilers:

Corvos name dropped for the billionth time. Hoary Boulder and Coultenet are headed there to check things out in the wake of Garlemald's fall and the Final Days. It seems like tensions between the locals and the surviving Garlean expats is on the rise. Much like the sudden Mhach-dropping we got in Heavensward, it is likely that Corvos is about to play a very big role (my guess is either relic or trial series, if not the next expansion setting).

Some of those expats are House Darnus. Some of those locals are the Corvosi G. With Amon brought back as a primary antagonist, and the fall of Allag tying in thematically to the events of the final dungeon, I suspect the saga of the Allagan Royal Eye is far from over.

The additive retcons we've gotten on G'raha's backstory indicate the Allagan Eye was passed specifically to the firstborn son, and thus we can assume is the mark of a de facto nunh. This makes more sense than what we had to go on before, which was not only a vague "once in a generation" sort of thing, but G'raha's own casual admissions indicating it made him an outcast. We can now assume that part of his childhood happened in Sharlayan, and in his own birthplace he's essentially the chosen one.

Now where things get messy: Corvos was hit pretty badly by the Final Days, which likely means the Corovsi G were as well. G'raha has also expressed a desire to visit (just once, he says), which is already setting him up for an appearance when we go there. Given his unbearable sense of responsibility, it seems incredibly likely that G'raha will end up pressured into the role of nunh. That role is, at best, a form of voluntary sexual slavery, not something that should ever, under any circumstances, be forced on anyone. It would also be an incredibly tone-deaf development for a character who is (subtextually, anyway) a love interest but otherwise established as very asexual. ("Does G'raha Tia f*kupo*k?" is simply not a question that ever needed a canon answer. Same for pretty much everyone besides Thancred.)

Ishikawa knows better. Oda knows better. I would like to assume Yoshida knows better, since he's been signing off on all the subtext thus far even while he insists it's not romantic. And yet, seeing so many dominoes dropped in place all at once (and going as far back as the optional conversation in 5.3 about G'raha's "Tia" status), is just really quite odd, and I don't know what to make of it besides suddenly feeling really uncomfortable about his character trajectory. It's been a very, very long time since any of my darkest predictions have come true, and I really, really want to be wrong on this.

Everything.

All i got to say is that i would have preferred if Meteion had ended up as something like Jenova where her pursuit of life forms ended up with her being possessed by "The Thing" and then proceed to feast upon the star and it denizens. Though nevertheless her motives are very final fantasy (as much as i dislike the frequent faulty/pessimistic portrayal of nihilism though at least our merry band touched upon that issue).

I was all set to hate this expac after the first couple of hours of playing then at around 83 they start pick up then BOOM pure crap. then it gets really good again.... they really need to work on pacing cause the first 15 or so msq just drag on and honestly could of been part of the 5.0 patches. I don't know why but HW and SHB felt much better getting into the beginning....

Zenos conclusion, what I want and why I liked it

I don't want Zenos to come back. Zenos is dead, raw and unsatisfying, and it was told this way on purpose. This expansion's theme is musings on the nature of life, death, and purpose. Zenos speaks on these things as he was dying, but never even got to finish his thoughts. Is there purpose in life? The answer is unknowable and unsatisfying. He *chose* his purpose, like we all do, and the end result was the glorious combat he desired and his thoroughly pointless death.

While I don't want it to be true, Asahi showed us a villain that retained some part of himself in the underworld. I wouldn't be that shocked if Zenos somehow crawled his way out, but I think how they handled Zenos was perfect. Let pointless death be. Let his story end unceremoniously.

Fandaniel

I ended up liking him more than expected, and was ultimately glad to see he was more of the main villain than Zenos. I liked the Amon reveal and the idea of him identifying more with that life than his Hermes life in the end.

Asahi showing up to drag him into oblivion at the end was a bit 'wat' moment for me though.

Zenos

Better utilized here than in SB but that's damning with faint praise. At least he wasn't the main antagonist again as I feared he'd be. He may have been the last fight but it was ultimately a pointless one story wise.

Spoiler Villain

I'm not generally into 'I'm doing the world a favor by ending it' villains but there was at least an attempt for an interesting angle with Meteion here. All of her different selves traveling the stars, finding dead or dying planets and filling her with despair. Though I feel like the game itself takes an overly pessimistic turn to get there. This idea that everything sucks so much everywhere else in the universe doesn't really sit right with me. It's like the FFXIV cosmos was populated by feeding a list of cautionary tales into an AI script.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Spoiler Villain

I'm not generally into 'I'm doing the world a favor by ending it' villains but there was at least an attempt for an interesting angle with Meteion here. All of her different selves traveling the stars, finding dead or dying planets and filling her with despair. Though I feel like the game itself takes an overly pessimistic turn to get there. This idea that everything sucks so much everywhere else in the universe doesn't really sit right with me. It's like the FFXIV cosmos was populated by feeding a list of cautionary tales into an AI script.

---

There are some interesting, real-world references here (villain and final zone themes)

The fermi paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_...destroy_itself
The big freeze: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima..._or_Heat_Death

Holy....lol Emet, What the heck?

Are you telling me all potential content in the future?

• Underwater Ruins of the Bounty (the Sea between Aldenard, Ilsabard & Othard)
• Blindfrost of North Othard
• Golden Cities of the New World (El Dorado?)
• Sacred Sites of the South Sea Isles
• Meracydia and its present state of affairs
• the Twelve's real identity (upcoming Alliance Raid)
• and then potential visit of other reflections like the First

I have to say I really liked EW and it has mostly given me the finale that I had hoped for

(minus Zenos but I have said enough about that in another thread so I’ll leave it at that)

.

But the reason for that is that I have kind of given up on FF14 really making sense on a deeper level when it comes to world building. ^^;

I always felt that consistent lore was never really its strength and that it shines more in the emotional department.



What I liked:


My favourite characters (Urianger,

Vrtra and Venat

)

EW had some stellar emotional aspects, esp. regarding Urianger (forgive me the DOUBLE pun).
He was hands-down my favourite character, next to Vrtra and Venat. The way his personal moments were written (and voiced, at least in Japanese) felt so genuine and emotional. It was such a (tearful) treat. But other characters such as Vtra, Estinien, Alisaie, Venat, and Hermes really moved me, too. Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus were very entertaining and I loved interacting with them. This was fanservice in the best possible way. (And of course, Krile, Y’shtola and Thancred were lovable as always.)

For Vrtra, I loved how they gave so much depth and so much tenderness to the scary-looking dragon. I felt so much sympathy for him. His relationship with Estinien was nice to see as well.

Places:

Radz-at-Han and Elpis were absolutely beautiful. Not to undercut everything the WoL is fighting for but I’d also rather live in a place like Elpis, minus the danger of being eaten by monsters.

The finale:

Even though the ending was very cheesy it was cheesy in a good way for me, haha. Yeah, it played veeeery heavily on this whole Hope and Friendship trope but I did like how they worked with darker themes, too. It really balanced the sappiness. I liked Venat’s speech in particular.
(And the creepiness of Meteion was a nice touch.)

I absolutely LOVED the design of the Endsinger. It was such a great fight, too. So that was a very rewarding experience. And the last zone felt very dreamy and surreal and basically exactly how I would have wanted it.

Some concerns regarding the Hydaelin/Zodiark arc:

I can totally understand why a lot of people are unhappy with the treatment of the Hydaelin/Zodiark arc. The reason why it didn’t put me off is that I thought the premise of Meteion and her source of Evil were really fascinating and “otherworldly”. It really felt grand and I personally liked this story even more than what Shadowbringers alluded to. But in terms of ShB/EW continuity it really wasn’t good and I agree that the whole Akasha/Dynamis/Meteion revelation happened very quickly.

Some thoughts on

Hermes

(potentially controversial I guess...):

I'm going to go a bit on a tangent on animal treatment here but for the sake of not going off-topic I'm not going to debate this further in any replies. If you disagree strongly bc you have a very different view on animals I would kindly ask you to ignore this bit.

Whereas I thought Hermes was really interesting I felt like his emotional motive regarding the destruction of species was a bit forced at times.

It made no sense to me that he says he wants to cherish life but then really wants to preserve the existence of evidently too destructive beings that might endanger the balance of an eco-system.

Nature is an eco-system and selection is cruel. It doesn’t become any “nicer” if it happens in the wild than if Ascians do it based on scientific observation. The other species that are negatively affected by say the fire lycaons/fire wolves also have a will to live, so to say that it’s wrong to remove the fire wolves even though they kill lots of other beings feels very short-sighted and not thought through.

Like, they already let a lot of dangerous species live so it's not like they don't respect the circle of life/food chains and so forth. So the fire wolves must have been Really bad and in my eyes the story made it clear that they seemed like an outlier even for animals of prey.

Also, they are based on creation magic so they shouldn’t even have a soul anyways? (Maybe I’m missing something here.)

And (and I say that as a vegetarian) to be brutally honest the Ascians in Elpis didn’t treat animals any differently conceptually than we treat them: as beings with objectively lower cognitive functions than humans (which is no reason to be cruel or to not cherish them) who we use for different purposes such as life stock, doing work, creating clothing, keeping as pets, breeding etc.

I’m not saying all of this is always good (neither is it always bad - context matters) but it’s definitely not as morally reprehensible as Hermes makes it seem. Otherwise, all of Eorzea should be doomed in his eyes for relying on animals (then again, I guess we are).

In itself I can even understand how the approach of the Ascians upsets him but they play so much on that idea in cutscenes to establish his motivations and to underscore his perception of the Ascians’ lacking respect for life itself and their arrogance that it feels a bit disproportionate. (Esp. on the wolves - it would have made much more sense if they continued to show the flying snakes bc they really did nothing dangerous and embodied the right of "non-performance-optimised" life to exist, too.)
We do know that the Ascians were prepared to sacrifice mortal life to bring the sacrificed Ascians back but up to that point they were actually very, very invested in serving the planet by creating a livable planet for said mortal life.

The Ascians kill their animals (but again - no soul?) for "good"/non-sadistic reasons. We generally kill them for similarly "well-intendtioned" (but not always intelligent) reasons. And whereas I can say with the utmost conviction that I hate animal cruelty it's simply not the same as killing humans, which is how Hermes sometimes made it low-key seem to me on an emotional level.

Venat vs. Hydaelin:

I really liked Venat and how she humanised Hydaelin. The latter never really spoke to me much (Hah) and felt really abstract but Venat’s personality just appealed so much to me (when she walks through the darkness, her face filled with fury while being covered in this tar-like substance was really impactful). I thought the dog was a little bit of an odd choice. He seemed a bit too funny/cute for the theme of her character but I can live with that.

What I didn’t like:

Zenos.

The philosophical tone part 1:

I agree with the people before me that I couldn’t really get on board with that super pessimistic EVERYTHING is bad narrative. One thing they always forgot is that while a planet or a civilization can come to an end, that doesn’t mean that there was no happiness until that point. A planet lives a long life. Mortals do not. Sure, Earth will also die at some point but until that happens many people will get to live and die. Some will be unfortunate to experience sadness and despair but some will also live a life of fulfillment. Some will experience both. It’s not all or nothing.

Only because the people during the Apocalypse suffered doesn’t mean that the lives of everyone before them was impacted by the Apocalypse. It was a very simplified understanding of life and happiness in the grand scheme of things.

The philosophical tone part 2:

I also don’t know if I agree with the idea that immortality and “perfection”/the absence of despair automatically leads to such a horrible state that losing all meaning of life and desire to live is inevitable. I know this view is not completely uncommon but I can also think of many hypothetical scenarios in which immortality and “a perfect world” could lead to the opposite. This is a purely speculative mental exercise of course but it was sad that it was presented so one-sided. It made it feel a bit cheap while trying hard to seem deep and philosophical in a very rushed manner.

The last dungeon:

That’s also why I didn’t enjoy the last dungeon. It actually didn’t feel FF14-esque at all to me. The second part looked like it’s from a completely different game but because it had no build-up it felt as if someone had just dropped a completely different genre into our story for the sake of it. The last part of the dungeon was absolutely beautiful and a delight to see but as I said before the point it tried to hammer home felt rather forced.

All in all, this dungeon felt like an attempt to get as much symbolism into one piece of content as possible to bring the point across while also having to create different worlds on the brink of collapse to make the universe seem big.

It would have made more sense to me if they used the three worlds they had already established in the zone as dungeon segments: The first part retells the dragon tragedy, the second part features the Ea and the last one deals with the Omicrons.

The Filler:

Also, the Labyrithos part after Elpis was such. A. Filler. It was really annoying tbh. xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by symbiote129

Holy....lol Emet, What the heck?

Are you telling me all potential content in the future?

• Underwater Ruins of the Bounty (the Sea between Aldenard, Ilsabard & Othard)
• Blindfrost of North Othard
• Golden Cities of the New World (El Dorado?)
• Sacred Sites of the South Sea Isles
• Meracydia and its present state of affairs
• the Twelve's real identity (upcoming Alliance Raid)
• and then potential visit of other reflections like the First

---

Loved that nod to potential upcoming content.
End spoilers:

Let alone travelling to other stars (or invasion from), even though most of those in our vicinity is fubar

It's curious to revisit the EW Announcement thread and reread our expectations back exactly in the day 6.0 was revealed, reflect what came true and what didn't.


Thread:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...howcase/page14

It's noticeable just how openly honest Yoshida was from get go. I remember doing this analysis of the very first press interview he did after the event and much of everything was, basically, what we got.

Febuary 14:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheRod

Got to read the lastest Yoshida interview for Famitsu (just now translated by AkhMorning) and I immediatelly reminded of this passage in my previous post:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheRod

(...)

I expect even more on the typical idealism again. This imagery of the Paladin - bar all the Cecil parallels - displays exactly the imagery of the noble good knight clad in shiny armor to save the day - our typical heroic fairytale.

---

And Yoshi-P basically confirms that the main reason for the Paladin choice wasn't especifically meant as Cecil reference, but the typical imagery of the "heroic hopeful knight" the Paladin presents:

Quote:

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Famitsu: The main job for this expansion looks to be Paladin here, does this mean you’ve picked the job because of its connections to FFIV, or is there any other reason behind the job selection?

Naoki Yoshida: When I thought of how to illustrate what hope means to myself and other people in a straightforward manner, I thought Paladin would be the most suitable one to represent that theme among all the jobs in FFXIV. When I think about who would be the first one to move forward while carrying the burden of everything even when cornered, this job would be the best to represent that… so it was a straightforward reason and also the major one behind this decision.

---

And as essentially extracted from the PLD symbology/iconicism, story keeps en route with the idealistic stuff:

Quote:

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Naoki Yoshida: This applies to Final Fantasy XIV overall here but I think the story that is weaved throughout the Hydaelyn-Zodiark saga does have the aspect of “hope against despair” here. For example, the same is also true for the image of that slight despair that was felt when the legacy of FFXIV was running, and from there comes the release of “A Realm Reborn”.

How the players will manage to find hope within the “despair over the apocalypse” situation will also be included as the theme for this expansion. The heroes who will face the hardships with the despair looming around them… this will be the nuance I wish the players would understand here.

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Overall, he said story will be very epic/much bigger, but not necessarily it'll be unexpected:

Quote:

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Naoki Yoshida: (..) To me, instead of portraying something that subverts everyone’s expectations, I’d say the desire to surpass the scope of imagination is actually much stronger here.

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