More action oriented combat{again}

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

Yeah I understand :( I just hate it when people are right. I can understand marching to his own tune...I'm the same way...but there are just somethings you can't deviate from...eating being an example...you gotta eat to live :o You can't live off water forever :o

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It just amazes me how he actually thinks he will get enough likes. To win over SE and have them throw out all the progress they have done. Restart add all the old concepts and build on them.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...dyJbvspjkNmdwQ

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Originally Posted by Rokien

A bunch of nonsensical crap

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http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...g-animated.gif

I just started playing Archer last week and while it is fun, I really disliked having to hit the attack button every time. There are enough actions and abilities to keep us busy moving around the action bar and clicking on them.

I vote no!

http://i.fra.bz/f61.jpg

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Originally Posted by Irzibe

I just started playing Archer last week and while it is fun, I really disliked having to hit the attack button every time. There are enough actions and abilities to keep us busy moving around the action bar and clicking on them.

I vote no!

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One reason I don't like archer very much.

I wouldnt be opposed to a dodge button.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Now, I've made this thread a while back ago when they first put in auto attack. It did get blocked because we got off kilter and started talking about other games, a lot.
So, I'm just wondering how many of you would like our old combat system back in place if it was improved on. please note: 1111111=LT(left trigger)LtLtLtLtLt. It's just how you perceive it. So, would you guys would have rather BUILD and make that battle system better or just stick with AA, because really, I know how much you guys like to stay with the "modern" mmo, and the "modern" mmo is more 111111 oriented.

As for me I would have loved to see yoshi build on top of that battle system(make it better). Instead of just doing a cheap/safe AA style, because really AA is sooo 2001. Yes it works, but really, I like to be involved in my games.

So, in 2.0 would you guys like a change in the battle system?

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No thank you...I prefer my RPG's to stay as RPG's and my action games stay as action games....i don't even care for the action bar...ewww

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Originally Posted by Allistar

No thank you...I prefer my RPG's to stay as RPG's and my action games stay as action games....i don't even care for the action bar...ewww

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I cannot agree more... I like both types of games but to me, a FF style RPG is not constant button pressing. I like a little bit slower pace where I can type a quick reply to my LS when fighting things.

"TERA and GW2 will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system."

-FFXIV forum

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Now, I've made this thread a while back ago when they first put in auto attack. It did get blocked because we got off kilter and started talking about other games, a lot.
So, I'm just wondering how many of you would like our old combat system back in place if it was improved on. please note: 1111111=LT(left trigger)LtLtLtLtLt. It's just how you perceive it. So, would you guys would have rather BUILD and make that battle system better or just stick with AA, because really, I know how much you guys like to stay with the "modern" mmo, and the "modern" mmo is more 111111 oriented.

As for me I would have loved to see yoshi build on top of that battle system(make it better). Instead of just doing a cheap/safe AA style, because really AA is sooo 2001. Yes it works, but really, I like to be involved in my games.

So, in 2.0 would you guys like a change in the battle system?

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You know what I think? Action gamers need to stop playing mmorpgs.

The way I envisioned original system would have been an online execution of FF13's combat system with a similar pacing.

Then we could chat between action queues if need be.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

"TERA, GW2, C9, BnS, Vindictus, Mabi 2?, and others will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system."

-FFXIV forum

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I fixed it for ya ^.^.

That's one thing I don't want from FFXI is the AA, I mean, come on can't they do something more creative?

I think ffxiii battle system would be very interesting, VERY interesting if they could make it work.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

You know what I think? Action gamers need to stop playing mmorpgs.

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To bad most of my gametime is with MMOs and nonaction games.... huh imagine that.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

"TERA and GW2 will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system."

-FFXIV forum

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I'm sure they will...whatever works for them is all well and good...but I just don't think its for FF...especially TERA's (IMO)

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I fixed it for ya ^.^.

That's one thing I don't want from FFXI is the AA, I mean, come on can't they do something more creative?

I think ffxiii battle system would be very interesting, VERY interesting if they could make it work.

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I still say no. Have fun and go play those games. If they were so awesome you would not be wasting your time playing ffxiv and posting on the forums. You would be playing. If you want action games go play an action game. I'll stick with my mmorpg.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

To bad most of my gametime is with MMOs and nonaction games.... huh imagine that.

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Apparently you'd have a lot more fun playing an action game, or an mmo action game. There's a lot of mmo action/rpg hybrids these days...like practically all the games you mentioned.

Rokien, go back to your cage. Nobody gives a shit what you think.

You don't define what you want clearly. People are telling you what they want and why.

You say they don't give valid reasons.

If you want a valid discussion, you need to give ideas other than "lol you guys don't like anything lol"

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Originally Posted by Answa

Rokien, go back to your cage. Nobody gives a shit what you think.

You don't define what you want clearly. People are telling you what they want and why.

You say they don't give valid reasons.

If you want a valid discussion, you need to give ideas other than "lol you guys don't like anything lol"

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Bam! Downed Rokien Balmung Style! *Victory Fanfare*! :D

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Old FFXIV was the whole deal of Attack ( wait for stamina) Attack ( Wait for stamina) attack ( Wait for Stamina) ATTACK!! eventually using a TP move.. the repeating the cycle all over again.. with AA it takes away ALOT of the button mashing, and you only have to hit something when you want to use abilities or WS.

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What you don't seem to realize is that the flaw in old XIV was that:

a) Stamina largely ruined the system
b) Even with more abilities to use, the fact everyone was married to the TP system meant everyone was getting hammered into the same system, which has other implications to class balance
c) the abilities that were implemented did not build off each other

Granted, I would have no point of comparison had I not beta tested TOR, which has a pretty functional system despite having no auto-attack. My guess is that stamina was originally implemented to act similarly to weapon delay, but as we all learned, it didn't work.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

What you don't seem to realize is that the flaw in old XIV was that:

a) Stamina largely ruined the system
b) Even with more abilities to use, the fact everyone was married to the TP system meant everyone was getting hammered into the same system, which has other implications to class balance
c) the abilities that were implemented did not build off each other

Granted, I would have no point of comparison had I not beta tested TOR, which has a pretty functional system despite having no auto-attack. My guess is that stamina was originally implemented to act similarly to weapon delay, but as we all learned, it didn't work.

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Even still, AA stops the whole pressing 1 a gazillion times till your finger falls off! :P. Alot of people are happy with the current battle system now. Yes it still needs a few tweeks here and there.. but overal... I believe its the main reason why we are seeing people coming back (might not be a whole lot of people.. but its a start).

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Originally Posted by Answa

Rokien, go back to your cage. Nobody gives a shit what you think.

You don't define what you want clearly. People are telling you what they want and why.

You say they don't give valid reasons.

If you want a valid discussion, you need to give ideas other than "lol you guys don't like anything lol"

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Someone has anger issues, do you think that I care what you guys think? No, soo goes both ways. :D

Also I did give a good base on a good discussion. I asked if they would have tweaked the old battle system would you guys want it. People said no, and I asked why, no one really gave me an answer. I also think AA was a safe card.

@Lux
Ya they have a fun combat system, but still not for me because they still hold that WoW fundamental base/ crazy instances. So I will stay with ffxiv until it looks like WoW and all the other mmos. Thanks for your concern though :D

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Even still, AA stops the whole pressing 1 a gazillion times till your finger falls off! Alot of people are happy with the current battle system now. Yes it still needs a few tweeks here and there.. but overal... I believe its the main reason why we are seeing people coming back (might not be a whole lot of people.. but its a start).

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Meh, I got used to constant use of abilities because I was a prot warrior in WoW (Basically keep sunder armor up, keep Shield Slam and Thunderclap on cooldown, keep whichever shout I was assigned by raid leader up). The transition to TOR's "Strike to build focus, use Slash and Master Strike as a focus dump, Sweep if surrounded by mobs" wasn't that bad as a result.

Not to mention, XI's weakness in class balance was the fact that certain jobs had few if any abilities. Sure, the fact that you have moves costing TP and we have many more abilities per weapon class is a step forward, but stamina was a big mistake. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Its funny no one gives a valid reason why.

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i think my point is valid.

/postcount+1

that's the point of this one right?

○Let me hit you with some valid points ro.
What I dislike about the old system, and why tweaking wont work :

Bringing back the attack trigger command will slow combat down. It wont speed it up, and it will have conflicts when communicating in party chat during battles.

Even when your weapon is drawn on the enemy, you wont hit/kill it until you spam 1 a lot of times.

Those two is my biggest dislike about the old system, and you cant get around it. Therefore the best solution is auto attack paired with combos, and regiments for the finger twitchy people.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Someone has anger issues, do you think that I care what you guys think? No, soo goes both ways. :D

Also I did give a good base on a good discussion. I asked if they would have tweaked the old battle system would you guys want it. People said no, and I asked why, no one really gave me an answer. I also think AA was a safe card.

@Lux
Ya they have a fun combat system, but still not for me because they still hold that WoW fundamental base/ crazy instances. So I will stay with ffxiv until it looks like WoW and all the other mmos. Thanks for your concern though :D

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1) I love AA gives me a less pointless button to not press
2) I hells don't WANT to go through that 4-5 month span of planning/setting up/implementing
3) Why would they spend even MORE resources just to put back something, that only you seem to want back?
4) I know you won't leave till FFXIV feels like wow, but come on! You need to stop this random threads of putting something back that they changed for the better...
5) Even though your threads are out there in left field.. your still kinda funny in them.. that much I give you credit for

In anyrate, just have fun Rokien... but always be prepared for people (including me probably) probably and most likely troll your thread.. just even based on "it's your thread, so his idea must not be that good".

Your a good guy in person probably.. and a person I could mostly hang out with.. but on the forums it's like.. playing tug of War with you most of the time! lol

My prayers are with you Rokien.. God Speed!

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Originally Posted by Starlord

1) I love AA gives me a less pointless button to not press
2) I hells don't WANT to go through that 4-5 month span of planning/setting up/implementing
3) Why would they spend even MORE resources just to put back something, that only you seem to want back?
4) I know you won't leave till FFXIV feels like wow, but come on! You need to stop this random threads of putting something back that they changed for the better...
5) Even though your threads are out there in left field.. your still kinda funny in them.. that much I give you credit for

In anyrate, just have fun Rokien... but always be prepared for people (including me probably) probably and most likely troll your thread.. just even based on "it's your thread, so his idea must not be that good".

Your a good guy in person probably.. and a person I could mostly hang out with.. but on the forums it's like.. playing tug of War with you most of the time! lol

My prayers are with you Rokien.. God Speed!

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Thank you star and Andrian for posting reasons which are good reasons.

Star that made me laugh out loud lol and thanks bud. I'm pretty fun in game as well ^.^ Though don't worry you will have a rokien in your server come 2.0! :D

Ya, it will be tougher to talk to your pals, but as it stands who doesn't use voice chat now a days, ya know!
Don't get me wrong I think they did amazing job on this AA system! It's the best out there that I can think of.

I use controller so it's hard for me now anyways to set down the controller and type during a fight so, I personally wouldn't see a big difference for me.
Slow down combat, idk, not if they did it right it would feel pretty amazing, if they did have a more action orianted combat I wouldn't be against jump(you know how much I hate jump!) or a dodge key either.

Again spamming 1111, if they did it right you wouldn't be spamming 1111.

I hate AA with a fiery passion. I consider it two huge steps backwards in regards to building a robust combat system.

The problem was never the button mashing that people kept complaining about. The problem was the game's best DPS was achieved by spamming the basic attack for a class as fast as you possibly could. What I mean by that is button mashing was a symptom, not the actual problem itself. With the combo system we have now, a bit of tweaking would be all that is needed in order to make it a dynamic system that eclipses our current combat system in every way.

Unfortunately, the safe way for SE going forward is to stick to 'safe' conventions, and unfortunately AA is one of those. They're far, far too gunshy at this point to attempt anything truly innovative, so I'm not expecting us to ever see anything beyond the copy pasta'd combat that you find in most other MMORPGs.

The combat is still super slow, specially for PvP imo. I think not only would going back to old system be taking a step back but things need to be more fine tuned for when PvP is launched to make it faster.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Ya, it will be tougher to talk to your pals, but as it stands who doesn't use voice chat now a days, ya know!

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Players you never met before, and PS3 users coming to a town near you.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

"TERA and GW2 will never make it in this industry because they dont have FFXIV's awesome combat system."

-FFXIV forum

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Don't forget these are the same people that want just about everything else from lolTera/lolGW2/lolTOR/etc.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I hate AA with a fiery passion. I consider it two huge steps backwards in regards to building a robust combat system.

The problem was never the button mashing that people kept complaining about. The problem was the game's best DPS was achieved by spamming the basic attack for a class as fast as you possibly could. What I mean by that is button mashing was a symptom, not the actual problem itself. With the combo system we have now, a bit of tweaking would be all that is needed in order to make it a dynamic system that eclipses our current combat system in every way.

Unfortunately, the safe way for SE going forward is to stick to 'safe' conventions, and unfortunately AA is one of those. They're far, far too gunshy at this point to attempt anything truly innovative, so I'm not expecting us to ever see anything beyond the copy pasta'd combat that you find in most other MMORPGs.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

The fact of the matter is every argument made against a non-AA system has nothing at all to do with not having AA itself, it'd be like me raging against the auto-attack feature itself for being clunky when it's not auto-attack itself but the current AA system implemented that is clunky as hell.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Don't forget these are the same people that want just about everything else from lolTera/lolGW2/lolTOR/etc.



Couldn't have said it better myself.

The fact of the matter is every argument made against a non-AA system has nothing at all to do with not having AA itself, it'd be like me raging against the auto-attack feature itself for being clunky when it's not auto-attack itself but the current AA system implemented that is clunky as hell.

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both said it better than me, that's for sure(not hard to do lol)!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

both said it better than me, that's for sure(not hard to do lol)!

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Well you were the catalyst, to say the least, though I screwed up slightly; by current AA system I meant the UI and controls themselves. I have not once seen an AA system done so horribly, and there are a lot out there.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I hate AA with a fiery passion. I consider it two huge steps backwards in regards to building a robust combat system.

The problem was never the button mashing that people kept complaining about. The problem was the game's best DPS was achieved by spamming the basic attack for a class as fast as you possibly could. What I mean by that is button mashing was a symptom, not the actual problem itself. With the combo system we have now, a bit of tweaking would be all that is needed in order to make it a dynamic system that eclipses our current combat system in every way.

Unfortunately, the safe way for SE going forward is to stick to 'safe' conventions, and unfortunately AA is one of those. They're far, far too gunshy at this point to attempt anything truly innovative, so I'm not expecting us to ever see anything beyond the copy pasta'd combat that you find in most other MMORPGs.

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if AA is so "safe" and "easy" with the directional combo system, you should be able to show me parses of you doing elite damage on boss mobs, right? and the majority of other players in the community should be able to match that elite damage, since it's so easy, right? right?

a lot of people talk shit about the 'ease' of a system they aren't even good at themselves. so that's interesting.

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Originally Posted by fusional

if AA is so "safe" and "easy" with the directional combo system, you should be able to show me parses of you doing elite damage on boss mobs, right? and the majority of other players in the community should be able to match that elite damage, since it's so easy, right? right?

a lot of people talk shit about the 'ease' of a system they aren't even good at themselves. so that's interesting.

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I don't even know when anyone said easy >.> it's a safe system to implement. It's safe because they know it will work, it's defiantly not the best system(AA that is), but it works, people are used to it. I would like you to show me parser of mass damage on every class with the old system >.> if you are going to say that. Come on now, that's a silly argument.

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Originally Posted by fusional

if AA is so "safe" and "easy" with the directional combo system, you should be able to show me parses of you doing elite damage on boss mobs, right? and the majority of other players in the community should be able to match that elite damage, since it's so easy, right? right?

a lot of people talk shit about the 'ease' of a system they aren't even good at themselves. so that's interesting.

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SS or it didn't happen. Stop assuming everyone is bad?

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Originally Posted by fusional

if AA is so "safe" and "easy" with the directional combo system, you should be able to show me parses of you doing elite damage on boss mobs, right? and the majority of other players in the community should be able to match that elite damage, since it's so easy, right? right?

a lot of people talk shit about the 'ease' of a system they aren't even good at themselves. so that's interesting.

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This. And just out of curiosity wtf is that sig? lmfao

What's next Rokien? You want the stamina bar back as well?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Its funny no one gives a valid reason why.

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Because there are going to be players who use controllers. FFXIV is relying on that PS3 playerbase.

Good luck moving nonstop on your D-Pad trying to be a decent player, unless you seriously think "Attack" should have it's own dedicated face button.

Go play TERA, Blade and Soul, or Guild Wars 2 if you want a more action oriented combat system. We just got a fucking overhaul of the combat system a few months back, and you want them to rework it AGAIN?

Christ.

Yoshi already stated that this time the battle system has to work because there won't be a next one. Your thread is therefor pretty unnecessary. Even SE can't remake the whole battle system at every whim of the so called majority.