Uh huh...Quote:
Originally Posted by Izscha
I do enjoy a pivot.
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10-15-2021, 04:06 PMDBriggs304
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10-15-2021, 04:20 PMnebby00
WoW was inspired by EQ, and due to WoW becoming so popular it had paved the way for most MMOs to follow the same formula. FFXIV 1.0 was heavily inspired by FFXI considering it was the only other MMO in the main series FF titles that they drew inspiration from, and considering some of the team from FFXI were the ones who worked on FFXIV 1.0, it was inevitable that SquareEnix would build 1.0 the same way but with better graphics, but that failed and with Yoshi-P replacing the lead developer, FFXIV 2.0 was heavily inspired by WoW at the time in order for it to become successful; these are the facts just to clarify.
But I am confused... why did the topic turn to this in the first place anyways? It just seems kind of irrelevant to what the OP had posted. -
10-15-2021, 04:24 PMIzschaIt comes to that when it hurts ppl to aknowledge the truth so they will come up with anything even barely related to not say it or even worse deny it, which is kinda sad tbf.Quote:
Originally Posted by nebby00
But yeah you're totally right with ur post. -
10-15-2021, 04:26 PMSotaris
Why people waste energy on dislike/hate on people for liking a different game is beyond me and childish.
I like playing wow casually every now and then and play FF11 and FF14 more or less full-time.
If people were to give me a hard-time to liking these games, I don't need you in my life. -
10-15-2021, 04:28 PMJosi
I am not sure how people can be so up in arms about a game. Aren't we all here just to have fun?
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10-15-2021, 04:30 PMDBriggs304You don't want to know and correct, it is completely irrelevant to the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by nebby00
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10-15-2021, 04:41 PMAlestorm
Honestly I don't really care what games you enjoy. All I think people really don't like is seeing people from other games coming here and demanding this game be more like the one they left and want the bad features implemented. As much as I would love the Tranzmog journal from WoW in XIV, I understand why it can't be a thing.
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10-15-2021, 05:04 PMAlyaNimfaSo true! It's more the banging on to us about it, most of us tried it and didn't like it, we are here now, not there. If it were so great why are they here? Just enjoy FFXIV and its community and move on with life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alestorm
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10-15-2021, 05:09 PMAriesDaBeehSame goes on wow spaces too. Most of it is full of people talking about how bad wow is and how good xiv is. I'd love to tell those people that if they enjoy their game so much they are wasting time not playing it being over there boasting about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa
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10-15-2021, 05:13 PMAlyaNimfaNo idea, if they are doing that then sure I'd agree. I tried that game before this one, lasted three months and decided it wasn't my cup of tea. But this is where we are, I'm not so bothered about what goes on over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
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10-15-2021, 05:37 PMAron73I have been playing this for a while and made it known I use to play a lot of different MMO's including WoW and so far not received any backlash from it. So I think this is a really small community of people who are this narrow-minded.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
Now it is still wrong and I urge anyone that experiences such behavior that they should report it. -
10-15-2021, 06:33 PMChawan
I play WoW occasionally.. sometimes i play a lot, sometimes not much at all. Kind of like most games i play. Last two months were almost entirely dedicated to ffxiv. Last two weeks Valheim and The Sims lol. It is ok to like variety in your life.. it is actually probably a good thing, might help some from experiencing total burn out. I think some people think WoW is XIV arch rival and only one should exist to rule them all.. when really they should exist in harmony and help build each other up for greater futures in both worlds. People are really silly about people who play WoW.. it’s just one of many other games.
Maybe there is some pushback when suggesting changes for imperfections because there might be a feeling of takeover.. Like a random neighbor coming over to visit to make friends, and then suddenly they try to push you to make changes to your house that you see as fine.. and maybe you have seen their place and don’t like the way it looks, so in-fear of your house turning in to a carbon copy of his junk pile, you just decline any kind of suggestions.. after all that must be how it happened to be like that right?
My roommate seems to have a bit of a reservation when it comes to me having some qol suggestions about this game. Seems that people must think if devs work on anything it takes away from work better placed elsewhere. So it is just best to let things as they are i guess is her general stance..
I wouldn’t let it bother you.. change is weird sometimes and sometimes people don’t know how to process it. I recon in time once people settle down and everyone figures out that were all just gamers looking for a fun pastime the waters will calm.. -
10-15-2021, 06:56 PMAron73
I'm pretty sure this derived on an old issue when console players head over heels for the fact that "Their" games were published on PC and was not exclusive to the console
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10-15-2021, 06:56 PMSaefinn
I think there is a minority of people with that bad attitude, but from what I hear is that people have generally been quite welcoming of ex-WoW players and players of other MMOs. I mean, we've all come from somewhere and I reckon most of the community has played WoW including Yoshi P. Heck I played WoW during the Cataclysm era, though WoW is a game I struggled to fully enjoy (but had friends who played). I come from RuneScape, FFXI, WoW, GW2 and SW:TOR and I've been here since ARR Beta Phase 3 as I was accepted into the beta for this game.
I know people might use something like "go back to WoW" if somebody displays an argument or attitude that better fits WoW. I know in a couple of my healer discussions where people want changes to healers that I feel don't fit this game's design I have used the phrase "this is not WoW" as this game is designed to favour healer DPS. Maybe it is a bit of a careless thing to do, and I acknowledge it. In my case I guess it's a frustration that people want to change an aspect of this game's design that I liked for something you can get in another game. But I think actually a compromise is possible, but that's for the healer section of the forums that I've already discussed a lot.
However, if anything, I am joyed to see more and more people migrate to this game and find they love it. Heck, I've been enjoying seeing newer people go through the MSQ fresh and having that dramatic irony of knowing what they don't know and watching them try to figure it out whilst biting my tongue to not spoil it. With one, somebody was asking me lore questions and I ended up being evasive to avoid spoilers and earlier this week they got where they needed to and I was able to say "remember that one time I was super evasive? Yeah this was why and now I can tell you my own thoughts on it". But I love the world they've built and its lore, but then I'm an RPer and lore is a big part of my experience.
Although I have mixed feelings about Asmongold, I really liked his and Rich Cambell's interview with Yoshi P, it was quite wholesome if anything seeing a couple of WoW "refugees" finding love with this game and learning why we love it. And not only that but finding that typically as raid-focused players and thinking that's all they'd do that they've ended up goofing off doing other things. And I liked Yoshi P's attitude in it, in that hey if you find a content lull it's fine to go back to WoW or play something else instead of having a retention hook, which I know has always been the devs' philosophy.
Watching Pyromancer's summaries as he progresses has been interesting, especially as I know he was the WoW lore streamer, he put out a video lately after finishing Heavensward, it has been kinda endearing to see how much he loved it, but, he's seen nothing yet. -
10-15-2021, 07:55 PMLiam_Harper
I strongly dislike the WoW developers, dislike the direction the game went and would never go back even if I was paid, but if people still have fun that's great.
Remember, even if you hate WoW, hate the devs or feel strongly about the recent lawsuits, the players are not at fault for that. They shouldn't have to sacrifice something they've invested in, still enjoy and paid money for because of the developers faults. The same goes for boycotts in general, if you want to quit something to make a stand that's great, but that doesn't mean others who like it should sacrifice that thing too for your agenda. -
10-15-2021, 08:06 PMAron73Here is a good excuse and one I totally agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
Why did I leave WoW? Well here is the easy answer Bad devs and even worse content and I'm sure most people leaving share the same reason.
Now is this a reason to smack talk people from WoW? No, it's not. We all made our choices based on what we enjoy that's all to it. -
10-15-2021, 09:22 PMKes13a
always amazed that this still comes up, I mean I get game loyalty,I have zero problem if people still enjoy playing gamesI moved on from and even games I moved on from and dislike.
people I play with all know I played WoW, I make no secret of it. never once have I ever had problems with being harassed or received abusive behaviour towards me because of it.
I have to wonder, what are these people doing? I mean, I have an example in my own FC, which I can kind of see a potential reason for why. you like WoW more than FFxiv, which is fine. I have zero issues with that. but if you go on and on and on, about how much better it is, or how they do this better and that better, and talk WoW 90% of the time... I can see where people might get antagonistic. If you broadcast that you played WoW so are inherently better than most of the player base, I can see where people might get offended.
I mean if you walk around advertising yourself as a WoW player... you will get pushback, thats how people are. if you are saying thatyou should get preferential treatment because your godlike self come into FFxiv to save it, people might get annoyed.
reality is, some people in FFxiv may be threatened, yes, but honestly, I think a majority wont care if you played Hello Kitty Island let alone played or STILL play and like WoW, unless you yourself are broadcasting these things all the time. Like I said, I have never been called out for p[laying WoW (wouldnt ever touch it again, but thats beside the point)
I wont say it doesnt happen, but I will say that I think a lot of this is brought about by the same players saying they are the targets. -
10-15-2021, 09:50 PMIllmaeranI'm sorry you experienced this!!! I'm also a "WoW Refugee" in that my first MMO was WoW starting back in 2005. I absolutely adored the game through Vanilla and enjoyed it from TBC through Wrath. A lot of that was due to sentimentality towards the RTS Warcraft games and the group of people I was playing with. When the game was no longer fun and I accomplished the last goal I had that was keeping me in the game (PvP Conqueror title), I quit. After that I found refuge in LOTRO and ESO for various amounts of time before coming to XIV in 2014. Between then and now I've bounced between XIV, LOTRO, and a brief stint in WoW circa BFA through two months of Classic. I very much enjoyed my time in BFA; not because of the current content *puke* but because of the people I was playing with and finding niche things to enjoy doing with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
I sympathize with your enjoyment of [certain aspects or eras of] WoW. That alone doesn't make you an awful person who's not worthy of associating with. It just means you like(d) portions of a game and enjoyed playing said content.
Do I think it's now currently a junk game? Yes. Do I strongly dislike people who've played it until recently and jumped ship due to Blizzard's scandals and/or terrible recent expansions? No. Am I afraid that they'll influence development in a way that will cause the game to shift from the casual-friendly, generally accessible format it's had from ARR into something more along the lines of current WoW where Mythic+ content is the mainstay? 100% absolutely, yes, no question.
Starting in TBC, I switched from a PVP to an RP server and never played on a non-RP server after that. The community was much more welcoming and enjoyable; much like the traditional XIV community has been. Come Classic, I rolled on the RP server and had fun for the first day until, let's call them mega snotrockets, rolled on the server in droves to avoid the long queues on PVP or Normal servers. They absolutely DESTROYED the social environment of the server and brought a level of toxicity I had never encountered, even on an early PVP server. It was truly horrible. I powered through to the level 60 dungeon tier to experience the nostalgic content a couple times then quit. The mega snotrockets ruined the game for me.
I believe a fair portion to majority of XIV players who hate on "WoW Refugees" are afraid of a similar experience to what I had in Classic. This game's been going strongly for many years and has built its own culture that is, on the whole, rather different than WoW's. It's no surprise that competitive content breeds toxicity, so when someone says they want harder dungeons because the current ones are too easy [compared to WoW's] and bring up Mythic+ it raises a red flag. XIV is not WoW, never has been, and the majority of us have invested a lot into the game precisely because it's *not* WoW.
I think the strongest reactions stem from the thought that the stereotypical "WoW Refugee" would never have more than dabbled in XIV had WoW remained good/enjoyable and Blizzard not had their recent scandals. "Blizzard sucks, so let's go to XIV, and try to get SE to develop the content I liked in WoW because XIV doesn't have it." is a pervasive enough sentiment that it can't be ignored. The association with that and "WoW Refugee" is, unfortunately, valid in enough respects that is breeds resentment and fear among the "original" XIV community.
Fear of the game changing into something akin to modern (circa Legion after) WoW with a shift in the community's social interactions toward WoW's can be significant.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the Dark Side is very true in this case.
I don't condone the behavior of WoW-Player-Haters, but I also ask the people who wouldn't have come to XIV except for Blizzard's recent actions had WoW remained enjoyable, to have empathy for the justifiable fear long-time XIV players have due to the influx of "WoW Refugees". -
10-15-2021, 10:05 PMFerra
I don't judge people based on what games they enjoy. I really dislike when people do that.
I used to play on Moon Guard and I was judged purely based on that fact alone. I know what it's like. I don't like where WoW went and I don't like the company but that doesn't mean I can't like you! -
10-15-2021, 10:47 PMDBriggs304This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferra
All of my most played toons were there and the way Goldshire was overblown so much, it actually caused it to turn into what its known for today just off the hype/talk. -
10-15-2021, 10:48 PMSnorky
We all have our own experiences, I don't want to see FFXIV become WoW. I don't have any hate for players of WoW who came here because of the direction it went or the scandals it has. I welcome them. I came from ESO because they are getting greedy and are going the way of WoW with content. But what I don't like is when people come here and start trying to remake this game into WoW.
This community has been years in the making it's not a new game and the flavor is different here. If you like chocolate ice cream and order a strawberry cone you messed up. Asking for improvements is one thing but trying to remake it in WoW image is not cool. Keep your parses keep your third party programs and don't expect me to have to run them. When a person comes here just remember this IS a established game it's not a new kid on the block.
This community has enjoyed slow steady growth for a long time. I don't want to play WoW I quit WoW years ago because of the direction it went. I came here to enjoy FFXIV for what it is and what it will be. No hate here just keep WoW over there and not in this game. -
10-15-2021, 10:49 PMRinhi
I don't get the obsession many (ingame) XIV players seem to have with hating on WoW, tbh
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10-15-2021, 10:58 PMSnorkyHave you played WoW? Because if you had (beta to garrison expansions myself) you would know how much it changed and not always for the better of the game players. I don't think anyone hates former WoW players I think FFXIV don't want what WoW has become to happen here. The segregated players, casual verses raider it breeds bad feelings and unnecessary hate. So if someone is harping in game how WoW is so much better I have to question why they are playing FFXIV. Personally I haven't seen any of what the original poster is talking about happening here. With the exception of these forums and the trolls who like to stir the potQuote:
Originally Posted by Rinhi
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10-15-2021, 11:08 PMDarksummonerQuote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
I am going to be honest. I have not been alienating WoW players in any way. I was once a former WoW player, as of 6 months ago, for 17 years. But one of the things I have been seeing in youtube channels, MMO-champion (The worst), and twitch, is the WoW player getting pissed about recent interviews that Yoshi-P gave with some of the streamers a day or 2 ago.
WoW players give nasty and jealous comments about FFXIV players and Yoshi-P himself. I am not soooo sure that we are alienating them as they are try rather hard to alienate us from them. To me it seems they are angry that Square-Enix is not in the same hot water that Blizzard has gotten themselves in. -
10-15-2021, 11:18 PMDarksummonerI am going to be honest with you. When I think of wow and all the times I have played with friends, done raiding (Mythic and Heroic), PvP, and just random world bosses, I really have had some really good times, but then i think of recent expansions like BFA and Boringlands and get feelings of anxiety, frustration, and anger. I played warlock for 17 years and I remember the class use to feel great and awesome to play. People would say the class was OP and I would agree. But then Blizzard did what others call balance and the class became a empty shell. It became stale and boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinhi
And that seems to be a thing in WoW. People cry that a class is too fun and too great and then the devs nerf a class to almost oblivion and it sucks ass afterwards. Yes I know the warlock class is doing great by some players view but it was the drawing point for me. And now that I am playing the hell out of summoner and have wayyyyyyyyyyy toooooo much I just can't see myself going back to wow and having the same fun as I am in FFXIV. Sorry. I know avid WoW players want FFXIV players to really love WoW. But many of us have history with WoW and many of us don't want to repeat that history again. I know I don't -
10-15-2021, 11:19 PMAriesDaBeeh(Responding to your posts in bulk as I just saw all of em)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorky
I think its up to personal experience. I barely see anyone saying anything good about wow either xiv players OR wow players. very few are simping at this point at least from what I've seen most are either still playing because they're too invested or are like me where the alternatives just don't substitute well on their own.
maybe what I stated in my post doesn't happen as often. I've only had about 5 individual instances I can think of before I've decided to just remove my wow experience from my 'resume of mmos I've played' around here. perhaps I've just got bad luck on my five. I never went out of my way to boast about wow. I don't think either game is absolutely better in all ways, both succeed in places the other fails and I'm in no way representing either game any more then the other. but if someone asks me what games I play aside from this, originally I was going to be honest. Now I have my discord activity hidden so my fc and static doesn't see me playing classic tbc when it launched lol.
I remember them saying whenever I was playing wow on tbc's release "maybe your parse would be better if you weren't dividing your time on that shit game and practising here" -
10-15-2021, 11:24 PMAriesDaBeeh
God I haven't played retail in so long the extent of me being a wow player has been entirely classic. I was interested in the story of retail and that was my only care for that. Then I realized I could still get the story on youtube without paying 25 dollars a month.
then bots came flooding in and ruined classic, mage boosting too and it got to the point where I'd rather do literally nothing then play that husk. suddenly gw2 and xiv looked way better in my eyes xD -
10-15-2021, 11:32 PMKes13aI am sure that a LOT of that nasty, jealous and denigrating comment base came as a result of a certain streamer who for YEARS bashed FFxiv constantly. Sure, they may play FFxiv now, but the reality is, that for a very very VERY long time, everything was bad about FFxiv and WoW good. the music here was trash, the bosses were trash, the graphics were trash, and dont get them started on cat girls. after years of that, the people who followed the WoW streamers will have one view of SE and FFxiv, and they will generally voice it to anyone who listens....even if they are themselves currently playing FFxiv (in fairness, that streamer hasnt trashed the game since WoW/Blizz ran into their little... "issues" and they started playing this, but that years long campaign has not gone away because they may have stopped for now, their fanbase still carries on)Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksummoner
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10-15-2021, 11:34 PMAriesDaBeeh
This is a really good take and a side of the perspective I personally didn't hear a lot about. I see a lot of invasive advertising on the side of xiv to wow players especially now that the game is in a exodus. The container that held the player-base of wow is leaking and all the players are falling out into other mmos, but mostly xiv which wow players are largely considering the next best or even only thing to jump to. It doesn't help that there are many people proselytizing people over to xiv thus the mass of refugees.
Like, my youtube feed at any time is full of videos singing the good graces of xiv and how wonderful it is while simultaneously smearing wows name over how it currently is and the only mmo videos I watch are gw2 ones I still get them.. -
10-15-2021, 11:40 PMAriesDaBeeh
I had to stop watching that certain streamer after such a nasty turncoat. He hated this game for years had everything horrible to say about it as you said- and cat girls. day ONE of him playing and the first cat he sees is his 'waifu' and everything he sees, every character and all the things he hated in the game is like gold to him now, like what? Not saying he should stay hateful but at least have a gradual change of opinion.. at least admit you were wrong about it originally. It just kinda seems like he wanted to 'switch teams' to be on the right side of turning opinion between the two games. be in the good graces of the influx of xiv fans he picked up? doubt he would've got that meeting with yoshi if he didn't shake all those beliefs he had over night like he did.
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10-15-2021, 11:45 PMAriesDaBeehIs there really that many fanboys left? again my perspective but its really seemed like there are more xiv players in wow spaces then wow players anymore. check their general forum. check their reddit. most of the time is full of people trying to get people in xiv like recruiters. wont deny some are probably mad at xiv's success but I've certainly seen a lot more fire thrown from this side of the field then theirs. could be wrong though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksummoner
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10-15-2021, 11:53 PMDarksummonerI know what streamer you speak of. I was somewhat in the same boat as him. By that I mean I felt the same way about FFXIV. This sort of mentality comes from playing in WoW and thinking WoW is the superior of MMO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
I cannot speak for this streamer at all. I will only speak for myself. I was drastically wrong. Very very wrong. To the FFXIV community, I apologize and I eat my words of long ago saying that FFXIV is trash and not cool. I was a dumb ass cause after playing FFXIV now for 6 and half months, I love the game a lot. I now despise WoW and I really really love FFXIV and everything about it, I love the community (Who has been nothing but nice to me despite me being a WoW refugee), and man I love Yoshi-P and his persistent obligation to communicate with his player base. Something that is seriously lacking in WoW. Their (wow) communicate does not even compare to communication in FFXIV.
Again not speaking for that streamer, I can say it is WoW mentality and maybe even loyalty in saying no game compares to WoW. But we all see that is not the case anymore. But for me I LOVE FFXIV, and as I have said in other posts on in FFXIV forums I am happy to be here and feel loved and excepted in this game. -
10-15-2021, 11:56 PMDarksummonerIt may be a matter of perspective perhaps. For me I have seen the WoW fan base in huge numbers in the comments of youtube channels, especially of late for the interviews that was done with streamers and Yoshi-P. They are bad, jealous, and borderline racist which sickens me even more to stay away from WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
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10-15-2021, 11:57 PMKes13athis is my view on it. you know, saying you might have been wrong about something, and the many people who played it, would go a long way, instead of a virtually instant change of heart. just seems like more of one of those "change of heart" things more based on where the money is than any real conviction. meh, just me but that seemed a bit two faced. neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things I suppose. but seeing the media and fans going on about "saving FFxiv" and all is like watching a lifeguard throw a life preserver to someone on the beach. FFxiv was doing fine, more people playing is awesome, but we werent exactly sinking and bleeding subs.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
as for smearing WoW... I feel no urge to do that... Blizz does a good enough job of that without my help ^^ -
10-15-2021, 11:57 PMDBriggs304I highly doubt those are FF players. Most FF players don't care about WoW one way or the other which is why this has always been its own niche game.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesDaBeeh
Considering I still frequent thier forums, those players come off as peeved WoW players unhappy at the direction & state of the game (rightfully so) who have tried FF but in no way have left WoW because they don't actually want to. I didn't want to leave before BFA after playing since early 2005 Vanilla but the community was too much and the game quality was decreasing. -
10-16-2021, 12:01 AMY2K21Are we actually going to pretend that there isnt a number of players who dedicate themselves to spending time to take shots at WoW at every opportunity they can whether on forums, Reddit, etc.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksummoner
"FF14 good, WoW bad" is meme for a huge reason. Sure, there are some WoW players who get mad at FF14 for literally no reason --- but theres also a number of FF14 players who are vindictive where a game they used to play lives in their head so rent free, its sad. -
10-16-2021, 12:02 AMKes13aits fine. everyone has their opinion and no need to feel that one is better than the other. you get out what you put in, and if you are now enjoying FFxiv, thats even better. the apology is appreciated of course, but just look at it as a learning experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksummoner
to be wrong is human, to figure that out eventually is human as well lol.
I wouldnt say I love Yoshi-p myself, but I do have a lot of respect for him and his team. The communication is wonderful and clear, and consistent. what they create is fun, and while some things could be changed, I like their direction, which for what is ultimately entertainment, what else really matters? -
10-16-2021, 12:04 AMAriesDaBeeh
I do love hearing testimonies like that though. Its good that people find better happiness by going out of their comfort zones. it doesn't happen as often as it should. The mentality you speak of is really just brand loyalty. Its not native to wow I know plenty of xiv players who would never even consider to play another mmo even if it wasn't wow as if it was taboo. I had a friend who wouldn't even play wow for one night (maybe 2 hours) with me and my friends for FREE to do the great gnomeregan run (which is a yearly event in wow to raise money for breast cancer awareness for anyone not informed) some people are too loyal that they look at any alternatives as poison.
Wow wasn't my first mmo, wasn't even close to it. playing every one of them under the sun even the ones in japan has kinda made me above such things as mmo brand loyalty. It wasn't really an awakening moment for me to play xiv and realize anything. To me it was just another really good find.. playing all those games also kinda dilutes my biases as well. I don't consider xiv the best mmo its hard to really have a 'best' some do things other don't and do it better. wow has better pvp then xiv, gw2 has better pvp then wow. But a lot of people only know these two games and stick to them unaware of all the other possible gems they may like. -
10-16-2021, 12:11 AMAriesDaBeehThis. Honestly it annoys me so much that this has spread so much. I go to uldah- someones talking shit about wow or comparing it to xiv. I got to orgrimar- someones talking shit about wow or comparing it xiv. r/xiv, r/wow, guild wars, youtube. I played BLESS UNLEASHED day 1 and people were fighting about wow and xiv in general chat. As a person who doesn't side with either 'team' in this thing its frustrating seeing the hate or propaganda or spats from both sides even in places that have nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K21
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10-16-2021, 12:19 AMRinhiI've not played WoW (or any other MMO for the record) before, noQuote:
Originally Posted by Snorky
I understand what you're saying and I even agree with that, but it's usually not the state of WoW itself the players are harping about, and I should've probably clarified my initial statement to say WoW players instead of WoW itself
sorry, no offence, but in my experience this is just plain wrong, many of my XIV friends and random pugs take every opportunity to trash WoW and it's players at every opportunity that presents themselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by DBriggs304