Forced to Raid?

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Originally Posted by BelgarathMTH

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Dirty necromancer be gone

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Originally Posted by KitKatnip

I keep seeing posts and discussions about content you must complete before Endwalker. One of these being the raids. I'm not a raider. I didn't even want to do the Syrcus tower series and it annoyed me that I had to do it. I'm not particularly fond of the forced dungeons to get through the MSQ either but dungeons are short and fun so that's ok.

Do we actually have to complete the raids (that have thus far been optional) for Endwalker or is this just one of those recommended so you get the story (which I could get from watching Youtube vidoes) kind of thing?

The anxiety of having to complete all these raids is just mentally exhausting.

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I don't like dungeons
I don't like raids.
I have anxiety doing regular content.

What's wrong with these people

I think calling the Crystal Tower series "easy" is just because almost any random group of players will finish them with at most one or two wipes.

But even experienced, well-geared players who have done them a hundred times sometimes die, and sometimes it isn't their fault. There are some mechanics in some of the fights, mechanics that aren't your responsibility to do, that can sometimes bite you hard. For example, IIRC, in the Phlegethon fight, if another Alliance doesn't get enough people to their circle when the boss casts Ancient Flare, it's a wipe.

So don't sweat it. I die, you'll die, or everyone will die, but it's no big deal. Even if you die several times in one fight because you can't get the mechanic down (like in the Angry Menu giant-eyeball fight), it's fine. It's expected.
And you'll still almost certainly clear the raid in less than 30 minutes.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

I don't like dungeons
I don't like raids.
I have anxiety doing regular content.

What's wrong with these people

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They're from the planet Hypercasual. Their species has a severe allergy to battle content.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

So don't sweat it. I die, you'll die, or everyone will die, but it's no big deal. Even if you die several times in one fight because you can't get the mechanic down (like in the Angry Menu giant-eyeball fight), it's fine. It's expected.
And you'll still almost certainly clear the raid in less than 30 minutes.

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This is something I've noticed a lot of players aren't always ready to learn, that the game teaches via killing you and dying and full raid wipes aren't bad. They're learning moments.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This is something I've noticed a lot of players aren't always ready to learn, that the game teaches via killing you and dying and full raid wipes aren't bad. They're learning moments.

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All it taught me by killing me is that people love screwing up the scales in Aglaia on purpose T_T

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

All it taught me by killing me is that people love screwing up the scales in Aglaia on purpose T_T

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So what you mean to tell me is that because the scales are balanced, the boss is gonna get a buff, and thus I should cross sides to unbalance them?

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

I don't like dungeons
I don't like raids.
I have anxiety doing regular content.

What's wrong with these people

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Some people playing just don't jive with the multiplayer content. It's not their thing. But they're still interested in this game for the story or maybe other social interactions besides battle content. "These people" have always existed. It just used to be less socially acceptable to be the wallflower than it is today. Up to the point they made CT required, it was optional to do the 24 man raids. I can see how it could be jarring to someone who did not enjoy that content.

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Originally Posted by KitKatnip

I keep seeing posts and discussions about content you must complete before Endwalker. One of these being the raids. I'm not a raider. I didn't even want to do the Syrcus tower series and it annoyed me that I had to do it. I'm not particularly fond of the forced dungeons to get through the MSQ either but dungeons are short and fun so that's ok.

Do we actually have to complete the raids (that have thus far been optional) for Endwalker or is this just one of those recommended so you get the story (which I could get from watching Youtube vidoes) kind of thing?

The anxiety of having to complete all these raids is just mentally exhausting.

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Crystal tower is the only raid required for MSQ and isn't too difficult considering most players can probably do it in their sleep.

The first thing I can suggest though is not equate any of the story "raids" with progression raiding in other games like say, World of Warcraft. It's not really like that. The raids you do for story clears (and weekly loot if you want it), are side-story/optional queue-able experiences, that have little if any trash, are often separated by "wing" much like WoW's LFR, and require little in the way of experience or coordination. I go into every raid the first time blind. I don't watch vids or read up on it. The basics you learn in dungeons is usually enough to get you through most mechanics and unique mechanics being relatively easy to figure out after seeing them once or twice. If you're worried, just stay with the pack in general so you have a good shot of being where you need to be to avoid bad mechanics.

As someone who gave up raiding in WoW for the most part, I'd put the story based raids on par with WoW's LFR... and perhaps even a bit easier than that if only because the visual queues for mechanics are clear in nearly all cases, most are seen in 4 man dungeons, and any that aren't you'll pick up quickly after seeing them a time or two. Most importantly, wipes aren't common after the first week or two. By then people generally have it figured out, and from then on you tend to get through them with little if any pain. If you can do 4 man dungeons, you can do the 8 man raids and it's not much different. The 24 man raids are closer to a "normal" difficulty WoW raid, but after 2-3 weeks of it being out, most players have it down pat and it's generally not a bad time.

Now if you want a more normal/heroic WoW-like raid experience, then you're talking Savage difficulty raids. And if you want something in the neighborhood of Wow's Mythic raids, then you have Ultimate encounters.

TLDR, if you can handle doing 4 man dungeons and the story trials, you can handle the side-story 8 man raids. The optional 24 man raids may be slightly more challenging, but can still be done blind without ever seeing a vid or reading a guide and are still queue-able content that's not overly difficult to clear after the first few weeks once everyone gets a grasp on them. They can actually be a lot of fun, and this is coming from a bona fide "path of least resistance", "low-effort" player here. I have no time or patience to waste on multiple wipes on a regular basis and yet I have no issues with the regular "raids" in FFXIV.

OP, I don't know if you actually went for it so far, but the Crystal Tower raids are pretty much braindead at this point, if the difficulty is what concerns you. You barely need to do your rotation and the bosses are going to melt regardless.

no need to be a raider to do FF14 normal and alliance raid, see them as big dungeon with more people in your team.

The bar is really low in term of difficulty.

Correction :
Play to raid, forced to wipe.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This is something I've noticed a lot of players aren't always ready to learn, that the game teaches via killing you and dying and full raid wipes aren't bad. They're learning moments.

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this is not souls style game /s

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Originally Posted by KitKatnip

The anxiety of having to complete all these raids is just mentally exhausting.

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It's just a 24 man...

The topic's somewhat old now but... I agree with many others. The CT "raids" are not really raids anymore; nor are the void ark or even the ivalice ones. The mechanics are pretty braindead and simply require you to do little more than look at the bosses' tells. Honestly holminster switch is a harder dungeon than most those raids and that's more or less immediately after the ivalice ones.
The only exception I'll give is the math one since, well. A lot of people don't do good at doing math on the spot... as simple as the math is.

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Originally Posted by Denji

The topic's somewhat old now but... I agree with many others. The CT "raids" are not really raids anymore; nor are the void ark or even the ivalice ones. The mechanics are pretty braindead and simply require you to do little more than look at the bosses' tells. Honestly holminster switch is a harder dungeon than most those raids and that's more or less immediately after the ivalice ones.
The only exception I'll give is the math one since, well. A lot of people don't do good at doing math on the spot... as simple as the math is.

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Man i wish i got the same Dun Scaith experience as it seems you do, because it never go well.
So much that there's always a couple of people leaving when the raid start.

Same for Orbonne Monastery, always a lot of people dying and sometimes quitting.
What you consider simple really isn't for some people.

Personally i like having content like this, because it's funnier to have to pay attention, but i wouldn't say that the void ark or ivalice content aren't raids. Not all of it at least.

The only REQUIRED raids for MSQ are the Crystal Tower(CT) Alliance raids. But...they're are only raids in name only. They are so easy to steamroll because level sync, by itself, doesn't hammer our stats down enough to prevent the raids from being steamrolled so easily when the majority of the dpses have such game-breaking-good endgame equipment. If you're feeling nervous about them you can just watch a guide to be aware of what will one-shot you. It's just a few things. Like, King Behemoth's meteor if you don't hide behind boulders, Amon's Curtain Call if you don't hide behind a frozen player, etc.

MSQ Trials and Normal Raids are basically the same thing. The only real difference is MSQ trials are from MSQ missions and Normal Raids are the side content with separate stories. They're both fancy 8-player boss fights.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

It's just a 24 man...

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A lot of players have social anxiety. Triggers can be different for each though. Some will be more uncomfortable in a 24 man surrounded by lots of other player but okay in a light party where they're only dealing with 3 others. Others will be the opposite and feel safer in the 24 man as a random face lost in the crowd compared to being in the light party where they might feel that there's more attention paid directly to them and their actions.

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Originally Posted by BelgarathMTH

I'm with you, @Shironeko_Narunya. I just did the Crystal Tower series and died like 10 times because I had no idea what was going on the whole time. My screen looked like some crazy abstract painting, with people running everywhere like an agitated hornet's nest, and that was with effects set to "limited". I didn't have a clue where to go or what to do, so I just kept trying to keep moving out of anything on the floor and throwing out heals as I could. If I stood still anywhere more than 3 seconds I died. Several times I died when I didn't appear to be standing in anything.

I don't understand the people calling it "easy". I define "easy" as "nobody dies unless they stand in orange."

I was playing White Mage, and I had my FC guild leader co-healing with me in a group. She made it a priority to rez me all those times I died.

This is my second attempt to get into FFXIV, and as before, I loved it up until these required "raids". It's such a horrible experience for me I quit before. If I hadn't been with my FC leader being nice and rezz'ing me, I would have quit now.

I take some comfort in people saying there will be no more of this awfulness required to progress my story experience.

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Go into your settings and turn off other players' skill effects. This will make things much easier to see.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A lot of players have social anxiety. Triggers can be different for each though. Some will be more uncomfortable in a 24 man surrounded by lots of other player but okay in a light party where they're only dealing with 3 others. Others will be the opposite and feel safer in the 24 man as a random face lost in the crowd compared to being in the light party where they might feel that there's more attention paid directly to them and their actions.

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Yeah, it all depends on the individual. Personally, I have pretty bad social anxiety in real life. But I am able to put that aside most days to do group content in the games I play. How I handle it, however, may not be how others do.

optional story-wise
not optional if you want the sick drip. I'm in the same boat want the drip but don't know how.

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Originally Posted by Sigma5

optional story-wise
not optional if you want the sick drip. I'm in the same boat want the drip but don't know how.

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What’s a drip? XD

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

What’s a drip? XD

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drip = slang for cool/good looking clothes.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

A lot of players have social anxiety. Triggers can be different for each though. Some will be more uncomfortable in a 24 man surrounded by lots of other player but okay in a light party where they're only dealing with 3 others. Others will be the opposite and feel safer in the 24 man as a random face lost in the crowd compared to being in the light party where they might feel that there's more attention paid directly to them and their actions.

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It's a MMO

Honestly most pre endwalker non savage/extreme raid content is nothing you haven't seen before if you've completed the endwalker msq

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Originally Posted by FireMage

It's a MMO

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I know it's a MMO. But MMO doesn't mean you must do content in groups with large numbers of people. It only means a lot of people are likely to be online at the same time.

Someone with anxiety might be playing to do things with friends and they're fine when they're only with those friends. Bring strangers into the group, and their anxiety may start being a problem. They are usually still able to do the content with strangers but it will be stressful and that stress frequently leads to feeling exhausted.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I know it's a MMO. But MMO doesn't mean you must do content in groups with large numbers of people. It only means a lot of people are likely to be online at the same time.

Someone with anxiety might be playing to do things with friends and they're fine when they're only with those friends. Bring strangers into the group, and their anxiety may start being a problem. They are usually still able to do the content with strangers but it will be stressful and that stress frequently leads to feeling exhausted.

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If you can't handle playing with other people you shouldn't be playing a MMO

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Originally Posted by FireMage

If you can't handle playing with other people you shouldn't be playing a MMO

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Being a gatekeeper has never been cool.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Being a gatekeeper has never been cool.

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He isn't entirely wrong.
If you go into an MMO without understanding that at some point you will be forced into interaction with strangers, you're probably gonna have a bad time.
Even in this game, where they've made and are making a shit ton of effort into turning it into, effectively, a single player RPG.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

If you can't handle playing with other people you shouldn't be playing a MMO

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Honestly, this "you can only play if you are an extrovert" spiel is a childish argument. People have different tolerances.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Honestly, this "you can only play if you are an extrovert" spiel is a childish argument. People have different tolerances.

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One doesn't have to be extroverted to function in an araid.
Hell, very little actual interaction goes on the vast majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

One doesn't have to be extroverted to function in an araid.

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And people are allowed to play an MMO if they have nervousness out of their comfort zone.

Quoting that person again, so you can be sure of what we are talking about:

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Originally Posted by FireMage

If you can't handle playing with other people you shouldn't be playing a MMO

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Originally Posted by Shibi

And people are allowed to play an MMO if they have nervousness out of their comfort zone.

Quoting that person again, so you can be sure of what we are talking about:

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Oh I don't disagree that they're allowed to. I'm not their mother.
But as I mentioned earlier, he does have something of a point in that there are certain expectations when you enter particular games/genres.

In the MMO genre it is expected that at some point you will be forced to interact with others, so if you are literally incapable of doing so due to severe, crippling social anxiety, then perhaps you should accpet that you are also functionally incapable of playing said MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

In the MMO genre it is expected that at some point you will be forced to interact with others, so if you are literally incapable of doing so due to severe, crippling social anxiety, then perhaps you should accpet that you are also functionally incapable of playing said MMOs.

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Again, there are degrees to this, it's not black and white.

Some people function brilliantly in 4 and 8 man content, or sitting in limsa surrounded with catgrills, but will have problems in an alliance.

That doesn't mean they should give up the genre.

"Uhhm, I shouldn't be forced to interact with other players in an MMO"
Bruh, what's nexts, complaining about being forced to shoot guns in a FPS?

... this is why gatekeeping is a good and necessary thing

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They are usually still able to do the content with strangers but it will be stressful and that stress frequently leads to feeling exhausted.

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Exhaustion is a personal problem. MSQ content can be cleared while anxious but if the person doesn't like being anxious they have the option of playing something else.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Again, there are degrees to this, it's not black and white.

Some people function brilliantly in 4 and 8 man content, or sitting in limsa surrounded with catgrills, but will have problems in an alliance.

That doesn't mean they should give up the genre.

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I mean, I don't really think this changes my point. There are certain expectations of you and your capabilities, and if you cannot reach them, then there's not much else to do. You took that risk when entering a genre/game well known for it's social elements.


On a personal note, I just really struggle to understand why alliance raids are so much more difficult.

Like, what significant difference is there between a 24 man and an 8 man? The only time alliance specific mechanics really happen are when you have to kill a specific add. They're essentially 8 man dungeons.

If anything, more people milling about means you stand out less. When was the last time you paid any attention to specific party members from another alliance? God knows, I can't remember.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

What’s a drip? XD

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https://i.redd.it/jfr5kwyexux61.jpg

Problem is that this does not include butters aka Timbs

Got to page 3 and decided to reply. Quite annoyed to be honest. OP doesn't like raiding, doesn't want to raid. Nothing wrong with that. Raiding is my least favorite activity in the game by far. They have also stated that they have tried many MMO's in the past and they do not like raiding. Unfortunate how many people seem to be implying that there opinion is "wrong" and that they should "just go do the raids."

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

They're from the planet Hypercasual. Their species has a severe allergy to battle content.

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Oh, so you mean the games core demographic.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Got to page 3 and decided to reply. Quite annoyed to be honest. OP doesn't like raiding, doesn't want to raid. Nothing wrong with that. Raiding is my least favorite activity in the game by far. They have also stated that they have tried many MMO's in the past and they do not like raiding. Unfortunate how many people seem to be implying that there opinion is "wrong" and that they should "just go do the raids."

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I agree. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to raid and thankfully we only have to do the CT stuff to get through the MSQ. It's not something I'm a huge fan of, only doing them straight through once, and only to unlock them for more roulette variety. Even then, there are ones I haven't set foot into yet. Part of that's due to anxiety from my limited skills and the rest is general lack of interest.

I suppose you could call me a Hypercasulian, from the city of Filthy on the continent of Toxic since I've spent more time gathering and crafting to make food for my RP venue than I have intentionally progressing in raids. Anxiety due to non-Hypercasulian's attitudes toward us and worry about our limited skills pissing people off and getting kicked is real. I'd say that 90% of anxiety in this game comes from seeing nasty attitudes and words coming from people who are more progression/challenge focused and thinking everyone else is that way when going into party content. I know I feel that way when going into something I've only done once or haven't done in a long time. Hell, I got totally lost in Cutter's Cry the other day and the healer didn't like where I positioned myself (the tank) during a couple fights and Rescued me to a "better" place. Talk about worrying I was pissing people off spiking anxiety!

I do think giving a raid a go is worth it; I enjoyed the Eden story a lot even if I nervous during the fights. However, one shouldn't be required to do so if they don't want to.