SECOND Job Stones for base classes of ARR?

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Does the Bard use any Japanese style bows with the longer top spar? I wouldn't know, I don't Bard.

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Dunno. I only play BRD when I want to be spoony.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Does the Bard use any Japanese style bows with the longer top spar? I wouldn't know, I don't Bard.

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Yoichi Bow (2.0 relic)

Ah. Then if it is a Relic then the idea of implementing those for a second job is right out.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Ah. Then if it is a Relic then the idea of implementing those for a second job is right out.

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IDK man we've had Edda's scythe available in game and that didn't stop us from getting Reaper.

The FF13 crossover event gave Paladins a gunblade and we still got GNB.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

IDK man we've had Edda's scythe available in game and that didn't stop us from getting Reaper.

The FF13 crossover event gave Paladins a gunblade and we still got GNB.

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I mean, the Yoichi Bow is still just a bow. It's just a fancy one, and not the only one of its kind either. There's a crafted variant of that relic available as well, but the color scheme isn't as impressive and it doesn't glow. That design isn't enough to make a completely new job out of, and I don't think they should. It'd be a waste. It's not a new type of weapon. It's just a bow, complete with a bowstring and arrows to shoot things with.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

As i said in one post above you: "the devs" said is no argument. Whats your personal argument on that?

The devs said earlier on that we never get to summon Titan, Garuda or Ifrit with the summoner (lore wise) and here we go (after years of player feedback).
Please give your own opinion instead of this "but the devs said". I guess we are on a discussion board here? Otherwise it feels very "fangirlish" (comply with the devs opinion).

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We still won't. They appear briefly to do a cool thing and that's it. We won't be running around with the primals right beside us all the time. Mechanically speaking they're just a cool spell that lasts a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, the Yoichi Bow is still just a bow. It's just a fancy one, and not the only one of its kind either. There's a crafted variant of that relic available as well, but the color scheme isn't as impressive and it doesn't glow. That design isn't enough to make a completely new job out of, and I don't think they should. It'd be a waste. It's not a new type of weapon. It's just a bow, complete with a bowstring and arrows to shoot things with.

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I agree, though I'm not sure why you replied to my comment (as in it seems like your comment is in response to someone else).
I was just stating that BRD having a Japanese bow available doesn't prevent them from making a job using Japanese bows.

If they wanted to they totally could. It and BRD's usual fare are more different than SMN and SCH's books after all. But I agree with you that it would feel like a waste.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I was just stating that BRD having a Japanese bow available doesn't prevent them from making a job using Japanese bows..

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I responded to yours because of...that.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I responded to yours because of...that.

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Hahaha thank you for so patiently and bluntly pointing that out to me~
I appologize for being rather slow today.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

IDK man we've had Edda's scythe available in game and that didn't stop us from getting Reaper.

The FF13 crossover event gave Paladins a gunblade and we still got GNB.

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I was more thinking a Gladiator/Rogue situation where they swap out all the weapons fitting a specific design and give the swapped out ones to the new class. Hence my reservations on swapping out a relic weapon.

Regarding the rest of the post, Lightning's gunblade is closer to the Paladin sword than what a Gunbreaker uses. In it's transformed sword state it is just a sword. It just can transform into a gun.

You do sortof have me dead to Rights on the Scythe thing though.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

I was more thinking a Gladiator/Rogue situation where they swap out all the weapons fitting a specific design and give the swapped out ones to the new class. Hence my reservations on swapping out a relic weapon.

Regarding the rest of the post, Lightning's gunblade is closer to the Paladin sword than what a Gunbreaker uses. In it's transformed sword state it is just a sword. It just can transform into a gun.

You do sortof have me dead to Rights on the Scythe thing though.

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Well with people talking about warhammers for a new job as well. I recall the WAR weapon that was a part of that armor set that made you resemble the dwarves actually being a warhammer instead of an axe. I don't recall if there were any others though.

If you look at MCH weapons they don't really stick to 1 style of gun either. I've seen ones that look like rifles, others that look like muskets, some that look like shotguns, and some that look like pistols (a couple of these which are super tiny like the size of a sub compact 9mm).

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Everyone in this game starts with one of these base classes of "A Realm Reborn": gladiator, lancer, archer, thaumaturge, conjurer, arcanist (lets leave rogue out here, since its not for starters).

All of them develope into one job class by obtaining a specific job stone. Arcanist being the one and only difference, here you can chose between two job stones (scholar / summoner). And if you level the base class you level up both jobs at the same time.

Since the addons introduce complete new jobs everytime, why just not implementing other job stones for these base classes, too?


For example, there have been always people who complained about the archer turning into a bard support / dd while many classic archer players like the idea to become a profession in dealing huge ranged damage. Why not coming up with an alternate job stone so that people can chose between a support bard or a pure archer?
Same for people who played a lot of Final Fantasy XI and enjoy the pet version of the dragoon, why not giving the opportunity to make the player chose in between?


https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ca...hadowblade.jpg

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100% agree.

We need more individual identity for every character in a more meaningful and RPG kind of way other than just looks: distribute attributes; select unique skill sets and abilities for each class (being unable to have access to all of them); having multiclasses; having racial characteristics that actually matter and change the play style; having classes that are exclusive to some races according to lore; classes of the same role with actual meaningfull diferences between them (with different streghts and weekness); etc..

Game desperately needs more of those classic RPG mechanics and less care for balancing.
Too much obsession with balancing removes complexity, dumbs things down, and basically ruins MMOs. And, history shows that every single MMO that tried to balance things too much, streamline and dumbdown it's systems fails sooner or later. It's the more complex experiences that keep on going. Seems people should stop min maxing and caring for balance so much, and just enjoy and play in the unique way they prefer (that may include a unique class that is "week", it's fine, not everything needs or should be completely balanced).

Individual character and class identity is way, way, way, much more important than balancing and streamlining.
This is a game for adults after all, game should respect player's intelligence and maturity much more than it currently does.

(PS:love your examples and the games you used for it, FFXIV actually would benefit a lot from being more like FFXI, EQ1 and DAoC in every single way actually, specially FFXI.)

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

I have been hoping they'd make branching versions of classes (Archer -> Bard or Ranger, Marauder -> Warrior or Beastmaster, etc) through the use of traits or new abilities but yeah it really seems like the devs are adamant on not making new jobs grow from classes. And OP you might want to take a chill pill on the people who are saying "the devs said x", they're just stating the reason why we don't have the suggested idea right now and why we might not have it in the foreseeable future.

Yes the devs can change their minds and someday might do so regarding this idea, but right now it's a "no" on all available fronts. It's not fanboyism to say such, honestly. The person may not really have an opinion if its bad or good or feasible or whatever, they just know what the devs' stance is at this moment in time.

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That would also be amazing. As long as each class is actually unique, with it's own strengths and weaknesses and very different in play style without caring much for balance over fun and uniqueness / individuality, that could actually be incredible.

I think being a Dragoon with a Wyvern pet would be fun. It seems SE is moving away from jobs with pets so I doubt it will ever happen.

Although reaper appears to have a pet but I don't know if it's an actual pet or just a casting animation.

We could ask for Wyvern Barding for our chocobos and pretend to be a Dragoon with a Wyvern pet.

the only reason to add in more "twin" jobs would be if we run out of weapon types.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

the only reason to add in more "twin" jobs would be if we run out of weapon types.

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Seeing as we got Gundam funnels, and Final Fantasy has famously had wonky weapon types, this is not likely a thing that will happen soon.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Edit: and as proven by SCH and SMN, your second point is not valid. The two jobs have nothing in common anymore.

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Because one is a healer and one a dps class.. so?

Mustnt be the same for a Dragoon <> Wyvern Master (for example)

Although a beastmaster <> warrior could be completely different, too.
So why not?

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Originally Posted by Fabbro

That would also be amazing. As long as each class is actually unique, with it's own strengths and weaknesses and very different in play style without caring much for balance over fun and uniqueness / individuality, that could actually be incredible.

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It would for sure, and I understand some of OP's seeming frustration when people say "well the devs said no" cause yeah it may seem like a weak answer but it is THE answer. It's definitely something they could do but it always comes down to does the dev team want to and then do they see it as being worth the time and resources. I can't see them making essentially specs though due to how tightly balanced they like the jobs to be, versus say FFXI where unbalance was expected.

I have skimmed through this topic, however, lets go through some logical steps.

1. If you make one class split into 2 different roles, you have to take into consideration the actions the class already has. Take Gladiator/ Marauder for example. On the Gladiator side, you have Iron Will, which increases Enmity and Sentinel, a powerful mitigation tool, with Marauder you have Defiance, which increases enmity, Vengeance, Sentinel equivalent and Holmgang, which is Warrior's 'I can't die' button. There is zero reason for any other role to have these. Go to Conjury and you have; Cure, Medica, Raise and Medica II. Doing this with DPS is a bit tougher, however, you can make the claim that, if you go from a DPS to Tank/Healer, you do not have the normal tools that the tank/healer would normally have.

You can say, just add them to the job quests, but to that I can counter, the Job quests would start at level 30, you will then have a tank, who could potentially be synced to below 30 (the earliest they could give a tank stance) and not be able to hold aggro as a tank, or they don't have a basic healing skill etc. If you do it like Scholar/Summoner, where they share nothing except Resurrection, then are you really still just having a different spec or are you basically a new job that just happens to share a weapon? Summoner gets both Bio and Miasma as DoTs currently, both of which are Arcanist spells, however, once you go to Scholar, you only keep Bio. For no reason, you lost Miasma. Even for the spells that they do share, the can be different. Ruin 1 on Scholar is 160 potency compared to Summoner's 180 potency, which leads into the next point.

2. Potency. It is no secret that Scholar and Summoner did properly share Arcanist spells. They both shared Ruin, they both had Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II etc. If Summoner was a bit underpowered, they change the potency of one DoT to bring Summoner back in line, but now Scholar is really strong on the DPS side. This is why the 'shared' spells are split between Arcanist and Scholar. All of Scholar's action, have been made Scholar Specific (except Resurrection) as opposed to keeping them Arcanist. The reason is so that they could balance each one separately. Changing the potency on one does nothing to the potency of the other. SE have already stated that balancing Summoner/Scholar has been a nightmare when they were linked, which has lead them to all but splitting them from each other. I would bet that, if they could go back in time, they would not have bothered with the Summoner/Scholar pair and instead given Scholar the current Job treatment. All unique spells, a unique weapon etc. Even if it was very early on in the games life, they might have made the effort to give Scholar a new look, however, at this point, it is too late. By having Summoner/Scholar split early, Scholar might have had it's initial DoT as Biolysis, it's single target spam as Broil all from early levels rather than just being Bio/Ruin upgrades, Summoner wouldn't have a useless Res and Scholar might have had a different resource than Aetherflow, which isn't even the same between the 2 now, with Summoner getting 2 stacks and Scholar getting 3, Summoner doesn't even have Aetherflow as an ability anymore, instead getting it from Energy Drain/Energy Syphon, however, Energy Drain on Scholar is something that uses up and Aetherflow stack. As you can see, it is a mess which would have been better if it had been sorted out earlier.

3. Balancing between the roles. This one should be a quick one. I can see Gladiator/Marauder having a DPS counterpart, I can see Pugilist/Lancer having tank counterparts, but, who would make a good healer? You could say Arcanist, but that has already been done, out of Thaumaturge and Archer, who would it be? You don't want to make roles too lopsided as it won't be fair to people who play the roles with less added. You can tell this by from the lack of Healer added in Shadowbringers and the joys that a new healer is coming in Endwalker (I am fully expecting a Physical Ranged and Caster in the next expansion). Trying to fit something into the healer role is probably the hardest one to do, but you cannot neglect them.

4. Feel of the job. Do you really want to play Gladiator but DPS? or Pugilist but Tank? Your basic rotation is going to be the same for both so at the early levels, there is going to be no difference in how they play/feel. Would that really feel good? Going into the higher levels, sure, you could add traits to make the animations look different, but at that point, you are playing a different job that just happens to share a weapon. At this point, rather than having a trait change the weapon skill, have the weapon skill be the base and make a new job from the ground up. By making a new job, you can also alter the weapon, make it slightly different, give your character a different battle stance to make it look and feel different.

At the end of the day, you are basically making a new Job, they have said it can take about a year to develop one job, so, if you were to add more jobs to the existing 8, that is 4 expansions worth of jobs to add (assuming the rate stays the same) and I am sure the vast majority of people would prefer a unique job that looks and feels unique to play rather than just Gladiator but DPS.

if final fantasy 14 have double stone per job it will be more of the same like many games in the market, wont be unique as it is. 14 wont bring anything new, many games are like OP is suggesting. Its so complicated create this thing, that would be better keep the way it is and brings new jobs with future expansion. with 2 stones many weapons will be deleted and probably dev team will need create something that fits roles, is so much work and wont gonna work. Many games have spec, there's nothing new in that. Balance will be a mess! in my opinion would be better create a new final fantasy to do this, than change what's is already successful.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Thats not what i wrote, you didnt understand the concept - read the title. I talked about the starting base classes of ARR. The new advanced jobs (not starting at lv 1) introduced dont have a base class and the opportunity to add an other job to it. (like arcanist > SMN/SCH).

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So, you're asking for the development of 7 new classes that have no ties to a job stone so that you can level your fantasy class to 30 and then change over to regular job?

Or, you're asking for resources to create 7 new alternate jobs, one for each of the ARR classes?

Either way, it isn't going to happen, and, no, an additional 7 classes/jobs would be a nightmare to create.

TBH the biggest for argument to have SE do something like this back during ARR days would have been that then every core class would have 2 advancement roles available. Meaning the ppl crying over DPS queues back then that weren't SMN would at least have had an option to change roles to progress without having to level a new job from lv 1 if they didn't like waiting around for duty queues to pop after getting to lv30.

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Originally Posted by Steelbreaker25

Seeing as we got Gundam funnels, and Final Fantasy has famously had wonky weapon types, this is not likely a thing that will happen soon.

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And we're still missing Hairclips, Megaphones, bolts of Cloth, Crossbows, Whips, actual Musical Instruments (may or may not fall under Bard), Dual-Bladed Swords, Maces, Nunchucks, Rackets, Whipblades, Throwing cards (not like AST Cards, more like Ace or Setzer, and speaking of Setzer), Dice, Darts, Paintbrushes, Dolls, Throwing Bombs, Hand Cannons (not like MCH's "hand cannons", actual cannons like Cannoneers), Cooking Utensils, Kiros' Katars/Punch Blades, Glowy Floaty Balls, the SOULS OF YOUR ENEMIES (jeez, and that was in one of the more lighthearted spin-offs)... oh, and Blitzballs...

Yeah, especially considering the dev team is not opposed to making their own weapon types (star globes and nouliths), it's safe to say we won't be lacking weapon types for a WHILE...

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

And we're still missing Hairclips, Megaphones, bolts of Cloth, Crossbows, Whips, actual Musical Instruments (may or may not fall under Bard), Dual-Bladed Swords, Maces, Nunchucks, Rackets, Whipblades, Throwing cards (not like AST Cards, more like Ace or Setzer, and speaking of Setzer), Dice, Darts, Paintbrushes, Dolls, Throwing Bombs, Hand Cannons (not like MCH's "hand cannons", actual cannons like Cannoneers), Cooking Utensils, Kiros' Katars/Punch Blades, Glowy Floaty Balls, the SOULS OF YOUR ENEMIES (jeez, and that was in one of the more lighthearted spin-offs)... oh, and Blitzballs...

Yeah, especially considering the dev team is not opposed to making their own weapon types (star globes and nouliths), it's safe to say we won't be lacking weapon types for a WHILE...

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Also no tank class using Tower shields yet or a job that throws party members at things to do damage like Umaro did.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

[...]Hand Cannons (not like MCH's "hand cannons", actual cannons like Cannoneers), [...]

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CANNONEER!!
SQEX MAKE IT HAPPEN <3 <3

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Also no tank class using Tower shields yet or a job that throws party members at things to do damage like Umaro did.

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Well, PLD actually used to have 3 variations of shields. We only see 1 these days tho.

While leveling you have Bucklers, Kite Shields, and Tower Shields.

Bucklers have higher block rate, kite is equal on both, and tower has higher block strength

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Well, PLD actually used to have 3 variations of shields. We only see 1 these days tho.

While leveling you have Bucklers, Kite Shields, and Tower Shields.

Bucklers have higher block rate, kite is equal on both, and tower has higher block strength

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The 3 types actually were bucklers, kite shields, scutums

They never had an actual tower shield despite titling some of the rectangle shaped shields as tower shields, however none were the size needed to really be a tower shield as these would be large enough to be used as cover or in large numbers to create a defensive line or wall.

In hindsight they did sacrifice mobility due to their size though technically other gear items in game should do the same to be honest. I'd picture a tank using one of these though as being less mobile but having more mitigation abilities or mechanics available to them or just stronger mitigation in general if unable to do the former.

I'd absolutely love this mainly because the class I always play in games is Paladin and this game pigeon holed them into the ONE role I have no interest playing (tank). I'd kill for a ret or holy paladin. RDM is the closest gameplay wise, but a lot of the appeal of Paladin to me is the class fantasy/aesthetics, which the RDM doesn't fulfill. I also prefer melee over casters. A second job stone or just totally new jobs that are based off the base classes would be amazing and fill in some missing playstyle gaps left by not having a spec/talent system.

If they ever scrap the class system I would love for the classes to be converted to proper jobs. As for skills they can use the huge arsenal of scrapped skills and changed gamestyles.

For example:
1.) Archer: Reintroduction of charged attacks that was introduced to BRD and MCH in 3.0
2.) Marauders: Reintroduce skills that have been scrapped since 2.0, make them them a dps offensive warrior (DPS)
3.) Arcanist: Give them SMN/SCH scrapped dots.
4.) Rogue: give them rogue/thief flavored skills.
5.) Conjurer: Give them the nature skills maybe convert to DPS.
6.) Gladiator: Give them scrapped paladin skills, maybe in the further make them into a DPS.
7.) Thumaturage: Give them one of BLM many low level play styles as it’s main, perhaps give them dark based skills only.
8.) Puglist: Tank with evasion gameplay, use scrapped skills.
9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

While some might be hard to give a alternate play style there is already plenty of scrapped concepts and abilities that can be used for the classes.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

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Nah, Lancer bring back pole dancing we lost when SB launched. :P

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

If they ever scrap the class system I would love for the classes to be converted to proper jobs. As for skills they can use the huge arsenal of scrapped skills and changed gamestyles.

For example:
1.) Archer: Reintroduction of charged attacks that was introduced to BRD and MCH in 3.0
2.) Marauders: Reintroduce skills that have been scrapped since 2.0, make them them a dps offensive warrior (DPS)
3.) Arcanist: Give them SMN/SCH scrapped dots.
4.) Rogue: give them rogue/thief flavored skills.
5.) Conjurer: Give them the nature skills maybe convert to DPS.
6.) Gladiator: Give them scrapped paladin skills, maybe in the further make them into a DPS.
7.) Thumaturage: Give them one of BLM many low level play styles as it’s main, perhaps give them dark based skills only.
8.) Puglist: Tank with evasion gameplay, use scrapped skills.
9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

While some might be hard to give a alternate play style there is already plenty of scrapped concepts and abilities that can be used for the classes.

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That honestly sounds like a much better idea than branching 2 jobs out of each class: separate things completely and keep the classes relevant.
(Except for the Pugilist tank. I don't think that would work with how tanking is designed in this game.)

sure this game will be like wow....sinking!

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

1.) Archer: Reintroduction of charged attacks that was introduced to BRD and MCH in 3.0
2.) Marauders: Reintroduce skills that have been scrapped since 2.0, make them them a dps offensive warrior (DPS)
3.) Arcanist: Give them SMN/SCH scrapped dots.
4.) Rogue: give them rogue/thief flavored skills.
5.) Conjurer: Give them the nature skills maybe convert to DPS.
6.) Gladiator: Give them scrapped paladin skills, maybe in the further make them into a DPS.
7.) Thumaturage: Give them one of BLM many low level play styles as it’s main, perhaps give them dark based skills only.
8.) Puglist: Tank with evasion gameplay, use scrapped skills.
9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

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Ok, here's the thing, for the base classes, you mostly just have the skills from 1-30, and then 2-3 more after that. Most of the skills are actually from the Job and not the base class, so for the thought of making a new Job using them as a base, you gotta ignore their Job skills.

1. I would rather they make a whole new class if they want to have a Ranged Physical caster. Cannoneer exists in FF Tactics A2, and kind of in two forms, and if such a class were to exist in XIV it would make sense to have cast times on it...

2. Yea, such great scrapped abilities on the Marauder... Like Fracture... Well there was also their old Enmity combo that's kind of been made obsolete... There is also the old WAR ability Deliverance, but that's not really enough to build a whole unique class...

5. Really the only salvageable abilities for a DPS class from Conjurer would be Stone and Aero, at which point might as well make a whole new class.

6. Gladiator I mentioned earlier in this very thread, only really the weaponskills could be used. Maybe Shield Lob with some changes and Fight or Flight after a nerf to increase cooldown, reduce duration and reduce damage increase...

7. Thaumaturge, it's pretty heavily build around Fire and Blizzard... And BLM mostly builds upon it... There's very little room to move into any alternate directions without entirely abandoning the Thaumaturge roots, and at that point theres no point in keeping it linked to it.

8. An Evasion based Tank sounds like a terrible idea... The main one I've heard that's really worked well was FF 11's Ninja, and mostly because it can spam abilities to dodge literally every attack thrown at it by bosses. Aside from giving it a low cooldown Perfect Dodge from past Rogue/Ninja skills, it'd mostly be RNG to survive.

9. Lancer to a tank is possibly the most viable of the ideas listed... Give them a tank stance, removes positional requirement from Chaos Thrust, maybe adjust Potencies from Weaponskills to be in-line with other tanks... Dunno about mounts though...

Yo, did someone say

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

1. I would rather they make a whole new class if they want to have a Ranged Physical caster. Cannoneer exists in FF Tactics A2, and kind of in two forms, and if such a class were to exist in XIV it would make sense to have cast times on it...

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Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

8. An Evasion based Tank sounds like a terrible idea... The main one I've heard that's really worked well was FF 11's Ninja, and mostly because it can spam abilities to dodge literally every attack thrown at it by bosses. Aside from giving it a low cooldown Perfect Dodge from past Rogue/Ninja skills, it'd mostly be RNG to survive.

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Yeah, evasion tanks really only exist in games with "builds," and I don't think there is room for them in FF14.
The Ninja in FF11 was unable to tank all content (mainly single enemies with fewer, harder hitting abilities it can focus on dodging), but in FF14 it would be expected to tank anything and everything.

While I don't like more job stones, I fancy achievements for an advanced job title. Like, since lv71+, your characters no longer need guidance (hence lacking of job quests and lv80 one only helps to wrap up pre-ShB threads) and master their jobs on their own. So I think they reach lv90 of a class, they can access a new title, similar to how FF1's class upgrade work, for example: White/Black/Red Mage = White/Black/Red Wizard, though I prefer something more fancy.


Keep in mind this is just title for fun, and FF14 is good at making things fun. I'm just curious about SE's creativity.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yo, did someone say

Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.





Yeah, evasion tanks really only exist in games with "builds," and I don't think there is room for them in FF14.
The Ninja in FF11 was unable to tank all content (mainly single enemies with fewer, harder hitting abilities it can focus on dodging), but in FF14 it would be expected to tank anything and everything.

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Utsusemi by itself isnt enough to make a tank in FFXI. The other things NIN had going for it was being able to sub WAR to get additional aggro tools and also that NIN had an A or A+ rating in evasion and parry to help make those shadows (3 from ichi, 5 from ni) last longer. Though SE actually designed the job to be a DPS and players turned it into a tank. They'd actually intended SAM on that game to be a tank or tank hybrid originally and players made it a DPS.

Overall though evasion tanks can be extremely hard to balance properly in a game which is why generally when they appear they're either too weak because the amount of attacks they avoid doesn't make up for lack of mitigation or HP, or they're OP because they're avoiding damage too much. In the case of FFXI the biggest annoyance for blink tanking were enemies that spammed AoE abilities as this would usually eat all shadows when they went off. RDM/NIN was probably the most broken combo for blink tanking in that game however it lacked aggro tools for party content.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yo, did someone say

Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.

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I actually thought Cannoneer would make a good interpretation of Chemist (fused with Flintlock): load up your hand-cannon with potion shells or buff shells and release them as a mist (by planting the hand-cannnon on the ground for AoE, shooting it at the target's feet for ST). Considering Yoshi mentioned they scrapped Chemist for not knowing how to conceptually make it work as a healer, it'd make some sense that way. Add some Mudra-like "Mix" command for buffs and you got yourself an AST with a cannon.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

As i said in one post above you: "the devs" said is no argument. Whats your personal argument on that?

The devs said earlier on that we never get to summon Titan, Garuda or Ifrit with the summoner (lore wise) and here we go (after years of player feedback).
Please give your own opinion instead of this "but the devs said". I guess we are on a discussion board here? Otherwise it feels very "fangirlish" (comply with the devs opinion).

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The devs said no.
That is the ONLY reason needed as they are the ones who make the game and make the choices.

The first death knell for any game is adding way to many classes, which is exactly what this is...adding way too many classes.

Bottom line is, the only reason to do this would be to level a second job for free. In my eyes that is not a positive thing. Think about it, you can level an arcanist/summoner 1-80 and suddenly you have a level 80 healer that you’ve never played.

It’s not a good thing to skip the levelling process or you deny yourself that time to learn the job. Even with jobs added in the expansions where they just start at level 30+ there’s a huge info dump. DRK even throws you straight into an instance before you’ve even had a chance to setup your hotbars. Even then these jobs give at LEAST 10 levels for you to figure stuff out.

While I understand why they didn’t start all the new jobs at level 1, personally I wouldn’t want to see more jobs getting a free pass to max level, even with the jobs that start at later levels I’ll usually take them on a few palace of the dead runs so I can understand their flow better and I’d rather see SMN and SCH split their levelling process than have more jobs get shared exp.