The Job Action Trailer 2.0 (Tanks)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

DRK
- Like WAR, I think many are underestimating the impact of shifting Delirium to 60s.
...
- Personal opinion. While DRK may have had the least "flashy" showing in the job action trailer, based on what little was shown and what can be gleaned from that combined with the many questions that leaves us with, I kind of get the feeling that DRK may end up being the tank that plays the most different in Endwalker compared to Shadowbringer.

---

This!
and this! I even feel the same about SCH to be honest. "Not good looking" and "not good" are two different things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garnix

This!
and this! I even feel the same about SCH to be honest. "Not good looking" and "not good" are two different things.

---

Agree with that, but having no new "cool" factor is a really big demerit if people knows they are stuck with that for 2 more years. Having new cool animations with a boring gameplay is bad but if you start with nothing remarkable the gameplay really needs to improve a lot, something i doubt SE will do since they are obsessed with "making tank and healers easy to play so everyone can be a tank/healer" (probably because few people still want to play as them due to how bad they are being treated despite the tank/healer mounts carrot)

Current DRK was "popular" for 2 reasons: Expansion poster boy, and new shiny animations due to the rework, not for its gameplay (even if some players enjoy games that you can play one handed)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

As for the Confiteor combo, it will more than likely replace Goring Blade combo in the rotational loop, as it appears the combo applies a damage over time. It seems the most logical way to implement it due to the rigid nature of Paladin's rotation.

---

Where did you get the idea that Confiteor 4 applies a DoT? The most logical way to implement it its so that it fills up roughly the same amount of time as the 6 gcds of RA+Atx3. I wouldn't be surprised if the combo has a short gcd that causes each step's animation to partially overlaps with the ones before and after so that it looks like one big attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Where did you get the idea that Confiteor 4 applies a DoT? The most logical way to implement it its so that it fills up roughly the same amount of time as the 6 gcds of RA+Atx3. I wouldn't be surprised if the combo has a short gcd that causes each step's animation to partially overlaps with the ones before and after so that it looks like one big attack.

---

maybe go watch the combo again, you will see the DoT tick animation. Last Goring DoT ticks during Confiteor, then there is a 2 GCD pause and a new DOT tick happens as the last hit goes out.

And no your way is nonsensical, as you cannot fill up that slot with out dropping Goring Blade, then you would refresh Goring super early and does not flow well in your suggestion.

We don't know if you can do Goring immediately after Confiteor then do Confiteor combo, and if it is the case then you are wasting stacks of Atonement, or at least 2 Atonement per cycle, the simpliest and cleanest way to add the Confiteor combo is have it replace Goring Blade after Confiteor, and potentially have it that one will overwrite the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

maybe go watch the combo again, you will see the DoT tick animation. Last goring DoT ticks during Confiteor, then there is a 2 GCD pause and a new DOT tick happens as the last hit goes out.

---

Based on what I see in the PLD part of the trailer, a DoT tick happens at every 3s after application of Goring Blade. The tick that you describe as "missing" could just be happening to occur exactly when the vfx for the second to last Confiteor combo move occurs, obscuring and mostly covering the much smaller DoT tick vfx. It doesn't help that the two vfx are basically the exact same color. The timing lines up pretty exactly with those 3s intervals for that to happen.
Additionally, abilities that apply DoTs don't have the DoT tick on activation but starting after the first 3s interval; so, the DoT vfx occurring during the usage of the final step of the Confiteor combo wouldn't mean that the final step ability is applying the DoT but that the DoT was applied earlier and the DoT tick happened to occur at the the move was used. If part of the Confiteor combo is applying a DoT it most likely would be the 3rd step since that is the one where there is some uncertainty as to whether we can see a DoT tick vfx since the vfx for the combo ability may be masking it. If the Confiteor combo doesn't apply a DoT within it, that would then possibly point to Goring Blade's DoT effect having an increased duration since that would then be 9 DoT ticks in the trailer, equating to a duration of at least 27s, which would fit with the 30s/30s rotational switch off between Physical (FoF) and Magical (Req) pretty neatly. One application of Goring at the start of FoF and one application right before Req.
It's hard to say for sure though since what happens in the job action trailers don't always match up with the reality of how the job ends up working.

Reviewing the footage, impact VFX was happening on the Moon Coblyn's snout (lower face), DoT VFX was happening on the core of the body.

About 21 seconds after application is the last tick of it we see, then it is absent for the three part combo. At the use of Demacia, you can see the impact VFX hit near the beginning of the attack animation (So server recognizes it), and then shortly after you see the DoT VFX once more on the core of the coblyn.

Seems to check out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Based on what I see in the PLD part of the trailer, a DoT tick happens at every 3s after application of Goring Blade. The tick that you describe as "missing" could just be happening to occur exactly when the vfx for the second to last Confiteor combo move occurs, obscuring and mostly covering the much smaller DoT tick vfx. It doesn't help that the two vfx are basically the exact same color. The timing lines up pretty exactly with those 3s intervals for that to happen.

---

There is absolutely no way that Confiteor nor the combo obscure the animation for the DoT tick, I would advise watching it back a few times if you do struggle to see it but it is extremely obvious that there is no damage over time tick for at least 5-6 seconds after the last tick during Confiteor, therefore Goring Blade DoT is no longer active.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Additionally, abilities that apply DoTs don't have the DoT tick on activation but starting after the first 3s interval; so, the DoT vfx occurring during the usage of the final step of the Confiteor combo wouldn't mean that the final step ability is applying the DoT but that the DoT was applied earlier and the DoT tick happened to occur at the the move was used.

---

This is actually incorrect, if the damage and DoT applies at the front end of the animation, then depending on the Sever Tick you can get an instant or near instant tick of your DoT which would explain the tick during the animation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

If part of the Confiteor combo is applying a DoT it most likely would be the 3rd step since that is the one where there is some uncertainty as to whether we can see a DoT tick vfx since the vfx for the combo ability may be masking it. ​If the Confiteor combo doesn't apply a DoT within it, that would then possibly point to Goring Blade's DoT effect having an increased duration since that would then be 9 DoT ticks in the trailer, equating to a duration of at least 27s, which would fit with the 30s/30s rotational switch off between Physical (FoF) and Magical (Req) pretty neatly. One application of Goring at the start of FoF and one application right before Req.

---

The new DoT applying on the last action of the combo is the most logical point of application, and if Goring Blade was ever extended to 27 seconds it would only serve to cause clipping 1-2 ticks of Goring at the end of every Fight or Flight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

It's hard to say for sure though since what happens in the job action trailers don't always match up with the reality of how the job ends up working.

---

I totally agree everything is up in the air, and nothing will be concrete until we get the patch notes, as everything is still subject to change until EW launches, much like the GNB potency changes from the Media Tour over 2 years ago for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

maybe go watch the combo again, you will see the DoT tick animation. Last Goring DoT ticks during Confiteor, then there is a 2 GCD pause and a new DOT tick happens as the last hit goes out.

---

Not seeing that, and you a clutching at straws just because a DoT vfx doesn't appear at one point and another appears later.

Also trying to use action counts to judge gcds in the job action trailer is a bad idea because they let each action's animation play for the full duration rather than compress or cut them short which happens in actual play.

Quote:

---

And no your way is nonsensical, as you cannot fill up that slot with out dropping Goring Blade, then you would refresh Goring super early and does not flow well in your suggestion.

---

Since Goring Blade was introduced Paladin has been built around a 9 gcd cycle of Goring Blade and then 6 filler gcds made up of RoH and RA combos with FoF being used once every 3 cycles.

• GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> Repeat was HW's 60s rotation
• GB combo -> RA combo -> RA combo -> GB combo -> HSx5 -> GB combo -> RA combo -> RA combo -> Repeat was StB intended 60s rotation
• GB combo -> RA combo -> Atx3 -> GB combo -> HS x4 -> Confiteor -> GB combo -> RA combo -> Atx3-> Repeat is ShB intended 60s rotation but has some flaws due to losing the cast times in the Req Burst
• GB combo -> RA combo -> Atx3 -> GB combo -> HS x? -> Confiteor combo -> GB combo -> RA combo -> Atx3-> Repeat from start is likely the planned 6.0 rotation.

The question becomes what are they changing so that what we feel should be a 8 gcd phase (HS x4+Confiteor 1~4) fits in a 6 gcd space. They may be cutting the HS spam down to as few as 2 casts per burst (which actually syncs with the change to Requiescat) and/or are putting Confiteor 2~4 on a shorter than normal gcd.

Quote:

---

We don't know if you can do Goring immediately after Confiteor then do Confiteor combo, and if it is the case then you are wasting stacks of Atonement, or at least 2 Atonement per cycle, the simpliest and cleanest way to add the Confiteor combo is have it replace Goring Blade after Confiteor, and potentially have it that one will overwrite the other.

---

No, it wouldn't do as you believe. You only see wasted Atonement stacks because you are trying to cram additional combos into a rotation designed for a 2.5 gcd because you have a 2.4 or 2.3 gcd. If they do as I suspect and are building assuming a base 2.5 gcd, we will use RA twice per minute which will give 6 uses of Atonement which you will make full use of.

Quote:

---

There is absolutely no way that Confiteor nor the combo obscure the animation for the DoT tick, I would advise watching it back a few times if you do struggle to see it but it is extremely obvious that there is no damage over time tick for at least 5-6 seconds after the last tick during Confiteor, therefore Goring Blade DoT is no longer active.

---

Each section is probably edited and compiled from multiple cuts. The failure for the DoT vfx to appear does not mean anything when the job action preview is an animation showcase rather than an effect showcase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Not seeing that, and you a clutching at straws just because a DoT vfx doesn't appear at one point and another appears later...........Each section is probably edited and compiled from multiple cuts. The failure for the DoT vfx to appear does not mean anything when the job action preview is an animation showcase rather than an effect showcase.

---

And I'm clutching at straws? okay buddy.

Assumed Paladin rotation loop will be: Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Royal Authority> Atonement x2 > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Fight or Flight > Goring Blade > Atonement > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Royal Authority > Atonement x2 > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Atonement > Requiescat > HS x 4 (x3 for 60 second rotation) > Confiteor > Confiteor Combo 1 > Confiteor Combo 2 > Confiteor Combo 3 > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Royal Authority > Atonement x 2 into Goring Blade to continue the Atonement Shift, so long as Atonement stack duration remains unaffected from present.

This should keep PLD at a 60-63 second rotation to line up with raid buffs, otherwise Paladin will play counter to what was stated in the LL where primary buff are now being purposefully adjusted to align with 60 and 120 second burst windows. Paladin already naturally drifts on it's current 63 second rotation, so increasing the the rotation by another 7.5 seconds will cause a much faster desynch from raid buffs than current which would be a bigger detriment to rDPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I think people are just being weird with onslaught and overreacting. But that's forums for you.

---

Nope. Literally the same WAR mains saying the same thing they've been saying ever since the idea got floated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Nope. Literally the same WAR mains saying the same thing they've been saying ever since the idea got floated.

---

Maybe that's the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duskane

warriors have been asking since start of ShB to take onslaught off the gauge and make it like the others it was bound to happen

---

Highly casual Warriors, perhaps. Every time such has been suggested, though, those who actually play the job significantly have been quick to inform them why anything more than a faint potency increase to Onslaught with each time (by trait or patch) Fell Cleave gets an indirect buff would be a capacity and QoL nerf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Maybe that's the problem.

---

What? That they actually main the job and therefore actually double-check ideas that would be a nerf to it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

As for the Confiteor combo, it will more than likely replace Goring Blade combo in the rotational loop, as it appears the combo applies a damage over time. It seems the most logical way to implement it due to the rigid nature of Paladin's rotation.

---

Aodhan is right!

I've rewatched the trailer multiple times now, and counted the seconds once Goring was applied, and kept an eye on the dot vfx. The dot is applied around 17:54, and - as expected - the dot vfx stops at roughly 18:14. The last Confiteor combo hits at 18:20, and there were no dot vfx until then, and just a second after the vfx the trash dummy dies.

The new combo doesn't require MP, replaces the first Goring blade combo after Requiescat, and is triggered by casting Confiteor/ending Requiescat - just as many other new finisher moves! (WAR finisher Cleave after Inner Release, BRD finisher shot after Apex Arrow etc.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Since Goring Blade was introduced Paladin has been built around a 9 gcd cycle of Goring Blade and then 6 filler gcds made up of RoH and RA combos with FoF being used once every 3 cycles.
[...]
GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> GB combo -> RA/RoH combo -> RA/RoH combo -> Repeat was HW's 60s rotation

---

HW rotation was on 90s repeat since old Fight or Flight had +30% dmg/30s duration on 90s CD. On 2.43s GCD (BiS GCD during 3.4), that's 37 GCDs on repeat which meant either you filled in one Fracture every circle, or were drifting by 1 GCD every 90s. Nevertheless, 30s dur FoF meant 4 full combos + 1 extra GCD (e.g. Fracture, but its TP cost were pretty high).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

I think people are just being weird with onslaught and overreacting. But that's forums for you.

On another note, seems like nascent flash looks like it got some kind of change.

Also, I really they'd change those aoe punch animations. It doesn't look good at all...

---

Yeah the way the axe disappears is odd. You'd think they animate it so that during the first left punch, the right arm sheathes the weapon, then punch with right, then the left punch and during the spin he will unsheathe the weapon again, but w/e. It's just an ogcd so it's gonna clip with onslaught I'm sure since you gotta start spamming that. Personally I was hoping we would get something like Escanor where you summon a giant fireball overhead and slam it down on the enemy.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/cc/04/f...c7eefab114.jpg

With regards to people being weird and over reacting about onslaught here's what's gonna most likely happen. Every 60 secs during TA you're gonna spam 3 onslaughts and the punch move during your IR window.

IR > FC > punches > FC > Ons > FC > Ons > finisher > Ons > Infuriate + IC

You know if I wanted to play a job where I spam an ogcd after every gcd I would have picked GNB but I don't because, call me crazy but, I'd rather weave defensive cds in between gcds and adding bloat to that window is counter-intuitive to what a tank is supposed to do imo. Unless all the bosses in EW is spamming a point blank aoe the changes to onslaught is just another step into turning tanks into poormans dps instead of emphasizing their roles as tanks.

Look, I get the complaints about onslaught being on charges IF IT HAPPENED NOW.

But we don't know what how other changes will happen in ENDWALKER, like changes buff cooldowns/durations and ir being maybe having charges.

Why is everyone a broken record on this?

And like I said before, it's 3 charges. Chances are we're not going to be required to dump all 3 into one burst window because we can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Look, I get the complaints about onslaught being on charges IF IT HAPPENED NOW.

But we don't know what how other changes will happen in ENDWALKER, like changes buff cooldowns/durations and ir being maybe having charges.

Why is everyone a broken record on this?

And like I said before, it's 3 charges. Chances are we're not going to be required to dump all 3 into one burst window because we can't.

---

If you still don't understand why dumping all charges during party buffs is optimal and recommended, then you do not get the complaints about onslaught being downgraded into an unnecessarily homogenised damage dump ability.

If you want your gap closer with dmg and charges tied to it on a tank, play GNB, PLD or DRK, you have that many choices. Or at least, level your Warrior to 80 and learn about raids and party buffs first, you write about how happy you are getting a homogenised gap closer, and how 3 charges are innovative, yet you didn't even reach the level to acquire it. And apparently you don't understand what buff windows mean, when I read that last sentence of yours.

Do you really think that homogenisation will make tanks better? It doesn't! Since ShB, they have been heavily simplified and homogenised. Every tank player and those who understand tanks and raiding I've spoken with agree that this trend is unhealthy; it will result in boredom for raiders, and only attacts casuals who play said job/role just occasionally.

There is no difference between "IF IT HAPPENED NOW" and "in ENDWALKER", it has already happened, it is happening now, and it will happen again!

I mean, he is not wrong...chances are that with 3 charges, the CD will be so short that you'd not be able to dump 3 charges into one burst window, but maybe 4 or 5! :P
Maybe WAR will press more oGCD than DRK now! How the tables have turned...

I am personally fine with it being on charges instead of using gauge. But I think they should definitely find a way to avoid this "dump all charges in burst window" thingy. Especially for the gap closers, which should primarily be utility abilities.
IMO, charges are supposed to be a QoL improvement. But because the gap closers are dealing damage, it's not really what it is used for...

So, I believe that the problem is not that onslaught is now on charges. The problem is that gap closers deal damage. That's one of the reasons why the new Monk gap closer is a good change.
I don't know....just change the gap closers to only deal damage if you use them from far enough. That could work, especially now that they increased the range of the gap closers.

Tank gap closers are really just as weird design-wise as the new Scholar ability.

GNB getting continuation is really cool, I thought it was Burst Strike 2 in the Benchmark trailer since you didn't see the first strike.
Continuation makes a lot of sense tho.

Only thing that really struck me as negative that I saw was how the WAR's weapon disappears when they do the clawing/ punching.
It always feels really odd to me when weapons just teleport in and out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garnix

I am personally fine with it being on charges instead of using gauge. But I think they should definitely find a way to avoid this "dump all charges in burst window" thingy. Especially for the gap closers, which should primarily be utility abilities.

---

Yea, pretty much this. At some point it crosses the line between a beneficial ability and rote oGCD spam.

There's definitely some appeal to the gameplay style, both visually and performative. Like when you catch the server tick perfectly while dodging between a gcd and snap back to the boss with the gap close. It's really fun for sure, the debate for me is really about the frequency (IE, should high mobility dodging be a playstyle it's own?) and whether all the tanks should play like that or not. All the melee DPS have a gap close but they each have their own flair and feel right? Some do damage and some don't. Some cost a resource and some don't. As little as a 10 sec or as much as 60 sec CD. Plenty of variation to go around.

I think WAR getting Onslaught change is more due to feedback about WAR playing slower than the other tanks, the whole 10 sec burst 80 sec afk meme. Less about it costing a resource or being DPS neutral, etc. Basically EZ APM Clap

Ideally they should incorporate the same spectrum of mobility into tank jobs as they have for melee. One end could be slower CD/less charges tanks that deal damage while on the other end faster CD/more charges tanks that play with that zippy-zoom style but don't deal damage (which in theory the higher mobility would compensate for). Something in this realm would be interesting at least idk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I think WAR getting Onslaught change is more due to feedback about WAR playing slower than the other tanks, the whole 10 sec burst 80 sec afk meme. Less about it costing a resource or being DPS neutral, etc. Basically EZ APM Clap

---

If that really was the reason for the Onslaught change then that would have been the laziest, most creatively bankrupt implementation of feedback I have seen in a long time. Instead of leaving Onslaught as it is, an actual gap closer, and designing 1 or 2 new oGCDs to make warrior's filler phase less boring (and we all know warrior is not exactly lacking in empty hotbar space) they simply turn Onslaught into the same thing that every other tank has...

It doesn't even look good as a filler oGCD, charging the boss while you're already right in front of it just looks downright goofy, it always has.