Can one truly be "carried" in an Ultimate Raid?

I never watched streamers for any length of time until Asmongold came over...it made me realize a few things.

1) Streamers are completely fake...pretty much everything about them. I mean things like seeing Asmons "reactions" to things he very obviously knew were coming.

2) Streamer privilege is beyond real. Endless free stuff, carries, not getting called out for screwing up.

3) Streamer fans are collectively some of the dumbest and most obnoxious people I've come across on the internet.

100% Carried, you don’t need to have the best raiders in game to get through an ultimate, it looked like he had 0% clue of what was going on in the fight. It’s fine, he is a streamer, they are all like kids: for better or worse, their experience is different and that’s fine

Streamer privilege I suppose, though I don’t really care either way but I’d argue it would be significantly easier for people of influence to find assistance to clear it rather than a normal player. I don’t wanna undermine their achievement but I also not impressed if they use their followers as a stepping stool to get shallow cred. I mean as long as they don’t shove it in your face that’s fine by me

Can one truly be carried in an ultimate? Yes. There are 7 man clears of ucob & uwu on youtube. The dps checks these days are so light you can clear them with 2tank, 2healer & 3dps configurations + some liberal use of tank LBs to avoid certain instant wipe mechanics.

Did Rich get carried? Depends on how you personally define it. Rich had to learn plenty of mechanics in the fight and execute them properly in order to not be a super hindrance to the party, or worse, wipe them constantly (twister, liquid hell baits, Nael in general, most of the trios). That being said, he had callouts basically tailored to everything he had to do so he no doubt had a much easier time. Even with the callouts though, he still had to execute them.

Whether or not you believe he was carried, he definitely had way more support and help than any average player attempting an ultimate would.

I think he was only carried in the sense that he was so pre-occupied with mechanics that his DPS was suffering really badly for it (Despite being ranged), though being humble enough to acknowledge that makes it much easier to overlook.

Granted, you don't need insanely min-maxed DPS for UCOB these days, but faster kills mean less chances for mistakes and potential skips of problematic mechanics. I'm sure people will still use that as another excuse to tear into him though, moreso if they uploaded the logs.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think he was only carried in the sense that he was so pre-occupied with mechanics that his DPS was suffering really badly for it (Despite being ranged), though being humble enough to acknowledge that makes it much easier to overlook.

Granted, you don't need insanely min-maxed DPS for UCOB these days, but faster kills mean less chances for mistakes and potential skips of problematic mechanics. I'm sure people will still use that as another excuse to tear into him though, moreso if they uploaded the logs.

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Ye he had sub tank levels of dps. If this was done during SB there would be zero chance of it happening. Same thing with TEA now. There’s not a chance of carrying him through TEA with those numbers.

Can someone be carried through ultimate? Yes.

Does it matter? No.

/thread

The jealousy of streamers is pretty weird. These people don't start out big. They grind for the views, follows, and eventually subs and recognition. So if that allows someone to get a footfold into the raiding community quicker than most, then so be it. These people also have to be entertaining and prog the fight at the same time, which isn't easy to do.

Rich did what he had to do to get the title. He definitely did more than someone that simply bought the title.

I mean consider the following:

1) UCoB is one of the ultimates that can be a 7-man clear -- and the easier one to do so.
2) Rich Campbell had 7 of the best raiders in NA raiding scene
3) His logs in terms of DPS were below tanks
4) He was heavily coached/hand-held through mechanics

Regardless of all of this, he got his Ultimate done and did something very few others have.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Seven of the best FFIXIV raiders/streamers got together to teach him the raid and get him a clear at a pace the vast majority of the player base probably wouldn't experience short of paying for it with real money.

As long as credit is being given where it's due and he's not acting like this suddenly makes him amazing at the game I don't see what the issue is.

And while you can't do a true "carry" of UCOB due to certain mechanics like the towers causing instant wipes if someone screws them up, the DPS checks are lax enough that tank-only clears have been managed and a 7-man clear would be theoretically possible if not for the mechanics requiring a full party.

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You absolutely 100% can get carried in UCOB and UWU. For the towers you can just tank lb and survive an explosion

Ok, so I saw the video, and at least mechanics-wise he was pulling his weight. Yes, he had other professional streamers holding his hand for call-outs, yes; yeah, his DPS wasn't great in a job he picked up specifically for learning Ultimate due to its mobility; yeah jobs have been buffed, yes the DPS check is more lenient-but from what I saw he was actually learning the fight and only died once out of a small mistake; the fact they let him LB being more of a "it's done, just have fun, get the clear."

If we're going to criticize his DPS in his first ever clear then I for sure wouldn't want people to look at my logs (and yes, for the record, I haven't done Ultimate, my static cried uncle, aaaand nobody cares).

tl;dr: did he get a lot more help than the average player is likely to? for sure. Does he know and admits it? Yeah. Does that diminish his clear? Ehhhh nah.

Well there is no question that he got carried. We only have to ask ourselves if he could have achieved the same stuff without the help of a experienced group, the answer is no and thus he got carried. Not to mention that they told him all the time where to stand etc.

That said, there is nothing wrong with getting carried, in my opinion it takes away from the experience (and achievement) but that's something that is subjective. And why shouldn't experienced players be allowed to help new players.

Rich is also getting a buttload of gifts and gil just cause streamer privilege. Asmon got a gil sink mount gifted. And as i said in my opinion it doesn't take away from my personal experience. It's the same with asmon getting all his arr ex trial mounts and then his golden pony through hard work, if you do it like that you feel your achievement no matter what others did to get that same mount. Since you can just do it unsync nowdays. Maybe people should stop looking at others and care more about their own achievements.

That said, yes he got carried. And you can rest assured that he will suffer the same as the rest of us when we get new Ultimates in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think there is something to say the popular streamer (content creator in general) is not really an accurate representation of normal gameplay experience, given many of these individuals experience treatment and opportunities not representative of the majority. The on call, extremely talented, set your own loot rules, plays videogames as a form of living (can spend working hours on games), etc. There is of course the other side, like having to entertain while playing and expectations on you but not trying to paint an entirely balanced image of all experience (at the moment).

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Yep, this is pretty much my take as well.

Was he "carried?" I don't really care enough about him or the content to have a real opinion on it. The far more interesting and actual conversation as far as I'm concerned is about the experience had by popular content creators or streamers. There is no question that Unknown Sprout X wouldn't have 7 of the best raiders in the world lining up to take time out of their days to help a clear. Streamers, regardless of what content they want to do or what role they play, never have to wait for queue times. They never have to go out of their way to find groups to do Min ILvL or "dead" content. They can basically pick and choose any content at all that interests them, be it something popular or something less so like Eureka or PvP, and they'll have others to play with. Etc. While I'm sure the vast majority of them are legitimately enjoying themselves when they play, they are absolutely not getting the common FF14 experience and their experience can give an incorrect impression of the game. I mean, I was watching Pyromancer stream the game the other day and his viewers were practically begging him to not log out before going into Ishgard because they had set up a big welcoming party for him. That's not the same way most players experience Ishgard for the first time (and it kind of defeats the story intent at that point anyway, but that's another matter entirely).

Now there are negatives to being in the spotlight as well. You have people expecting you to voice every bit of unvoiced text. You NEED to do (according to the audience) certain quests and sidequests in a very specific order. You need to watch the appropriate trailer at the exact proper time. You have to do every bit of content on min iLvL and completely blind.. but you'd better not die or cause a wipe because then you'll get flamed for being terrible at the game. Etc.

ucob got 7 manned so did uwu not sure about tea haven't checked

So there is definitely room for carries, you just need a corpse to make sure you have a lb3 bar

I'm confused why anyone is trying to push this as a conversation.

"Streamer privilege" would imply SE granting a streamer special access not available to other players. I don't see SE involved here.

If someone's friends and peers want to help that person clear content, that's up to them. It's no one else's business.

I'm certain there are others who have likewise done the same for their friends and peers. Why are you not getting on the case of those individuals as well?

If your problem is that streamers seem to get treated differently than you do, ask yourself what you're doing that compares to what the streamers do to help inform, entertain and promote the community. It's not unusual for people to show appreciation to those they feel have had a positive impact on their lives, even if that something is as simple as a game stream for entertainment purposes.

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Originally Posted by sauc

ucob got 7 manned so did uwu not sure about tea haven't checked

So there is definitely room for carries, you just need a corpse to make sure you have a lb3 bar

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Depending on how mechanics are programmed to work, 7 living might find it easier to complete a fight than 7 living plus 1 corpse.

Nah, he didn't get carried just got faster prog to clear. Y'all need to accept it.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

Nah, he didn't get carried just got faster prog to clear. Y'all need to accept it.

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We watched the same stream, right? They literally did babysit him the whole fight. If you need someone to tell you "get over here" "now you want to stack here" "do this now" then you are getting carried. Which is, as i said, fine. And i am not saying he didn't pulled his weight, in the last pull he didn't die, i think, which is really good.

But he neither perfected his rotation nor did he do all the mechanics without having callouts literally all the time just for him. This is getting carried.

That said, it's alright. He is casual in that regard, he also takes gifts galore from all his fans. And it is his personal experience. For me it would ruin the fun if people just shove all their gil and experience onto me to make my life easier but some others might like it that way and that is alright.

“Carried Legend” when SE?

10,000% he was carried. Almost anyone who is average in his position would be able to succeed with the type of support he had. The experience he had doing an ultimate is not even remotely similar to what it is like as a normal player. A bunch of people got together who already have done it who weren't going to kick him for his bad performance and pushed him through a relatively easily 7 mannable or all tank ultimate. It is what it is. However, it doesn't really matter because with each expansion that comes out ultimates become easier and easier. FF14 doesn't have anything really particularly "prestigious" since everything is made to be easy and farmable eventually. It isn't productive to rant and rave about him being carried since everyone is already aware. Just let him do his thing. Maybe if he gets enough attention the devs might actually crank out hard content that will stay hard. Try to turn this to your advantage instead of a sore point.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: who actually gives a popoto? ....oh, right.

Jeez people really like drama don't they.
Obviously he got carried in the sense that he was able to get together a static with top tier players instantly and learn faster than the average player.
But in the end he cleared the content like anyone else, and that's all that matters.

As for the original question, i don't think you can really be 100% carried through any of the endgame content, as most of it has insta-wipe mechanics that need to be understood by the whole party.
So yeah ... carried to an extent ? Sure. But you can't just afk through the whole thing and let your party do the work for you.

This pretty much highlights the truth about any live content. If you don't do it when it's brand new to everyone, then you have an ever growing pile of advantages that first goers do not have.

On top of having easy access to an incredible group and leader, they also have access to all of the knowledge that everyone has built for the fight, in addition to whatever third party tools said group is going to use on top of potency lifts and job changes.

Basically, he was escorted through the content, which has only gotten easier with age. MMOs change and grow, and FFXIV is no exception, however much the devs want to maintain the efficacy of each fight. It's most comparable to an early MMO escort mission. You're tasked with walking beside an NPC with the condition that they not die, and that you meet the demands of the mission, such that you succeed in spite of their blunders/tomfoolery/weakness.

Just ask yourself, could he have succeeded as quickly as he did, without having the mechanics dictated to him? Could he go into a clear group that's close but still hasn't cleared, and help them to clear?

He was the passenger car of a train, pulled along by the engine, and monitored by the caboose.

Old ultimate, is what it is.

Some people/groups have to suffer more than most. Him being a popular streamer is an advantage and he also had 7 other people who already cleared the fight so it wasn't a genuine prog experience.
That said it's an old ultimate, they're not balanced for new patches, uwu is basically a long extreme at this point.
So imo unless you've cleared said ultimates when they were relevant content in their current expansion you have no right to complain, and going off logic the vast majority definitely haven't cleared it when it was relevant.
Just hold it in until new ultimate drops then you can be judgy.

I just really don't get why people care so much about this.
Lets just for the sake of the argument say that he got carried.
He's not a douche about it or anything, Rich is very positive and loves the game.

If he was a douche about it or didn't like the game and got carried and was using it to be all like '' the game sucks u guys '' then that'd be different.
But he's just having fun and having a good time.

Wow, there is a lot of pettiness being shown in this forum about Riches clear. A lot of generalizations and assumptions about content so that way they don't have to give details about their opinions and has everyone else fills in the blanks for them. So lets start poking some holes into their ego since it's extremely inflated at the moment about Ultimates and the clear.

**"Carried"** Anyone want to be specific about this instead of just dropping this word and walking away and expect everyone else to fill in the blanks?
"Call outs are carries" Always calling out or some call outs? Is 99% callouts only a clear? 90%, 80%, how often are players allowed to call out in an Ultimate run for it be considered a "clear" in your eyes? That way we can tell others who didn't meet these conditions that they also were carried. "He had veteran players" Are you assuming that the only veteran players of ffxiv that exist are the streamers? You think other vets don't go out of their way to help players in ultimates? This is some small little world you live in if you assume there are no clears that happened in UCOB that are similar to Riches. Chances are Riches type of clears happend with vets who have the time to help new players into ultimates.
"7 man ultimates" Okay cool, how easy is that to do? I see vids of people beating every dark souls-esque game naked and with a basic weapon, does that mean just anyone can do it or does that mean patience, luck and skill to do? Is doing UCOB as a 7 man easy or did they practice the fight so much that just doing it 1 time is enough and don't want to do it again? There is all this assumptions about Riches clear by very petty and salty people for no reason. Rich got the clear, get over your ego about Ultimates cause they are still the hardest content available in ffxiv and that hasn't changed.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

Wow, there is a lot of pettiness being shown in this forum about Riches clear. A lot of generalizations and assumptions about content so that way they don't have to give details about their opinions and has everyone else fills in the blanks for them. So lets start poking some holes into their ego since it's extremely inflated at the moment about Ultimates and the clear.

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There is 6 pages that clearly explains the situation. A few of them make good use of space to make a wall of text breath a bit!

To make it easier for you:
-Rich had specifically made call out. It's as if your car would tell you to stop at red light or would read traffic sign for you and would correct your trajectory if you go deviate too much on left or right.
-His group was half filled with monsters, not veteran. World first raider and 8 tank RL, that's more than a veteran group.

No matter which angle you attack the problem, Rich always had a different situation which resulted in the easiest UCOB clear that isn't someone piloting your account.

In my own opinion, claiming Rich did not get carried is the same as saying he doesn't deserves the clear. Both are extreme black and white views without looking further than your nose.
Because both answers are "No". The problem is jumping on the "No" and the "Yes" while what should interest everyone is the "Why".

Hating RichCOB or not is another question. With a simple answer: Keep it to you.

If others are willing to carry you, what's the problem? He is not even flexing about it.

Salty people being salty because others won't do that for them pretty much. With ZeplaHQ something similar happens "streamer privilege" (and other misogynistic stuff).

No one it's a fault that some has the charisma of a rock.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

Wow, there is a lot of pettiness being shown in this forum about Riches clear.

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I love these mental gymnastics.

One person has a problem with it -> Everyone else calls it a carry (or not) and says that is alright and cool -> THE FORUMS ARE A CESSPOOL OF TOXICITY! EVERYONE JUST HATES HERE! HOW DARE YOU!!!!1111!!! SO MANY HATERS! YOU ARE ALL HATERS!!!

I really love this and it repeats itself so well in all the different threads. As soon as someone has a different opinion someone like the quoted person up there just shoots into a thread and screams that it's infested with so many toxic people. xD

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

There is 6 pages that clearly explains the situation. A few of them make good use of space to make a wall of text breath a bit!

To make it easier for you:
-Rich had specifically made call out. It's as if your car would tell you to stop at red light or would read traffic sign for you and would correct your trajectory if you go deviate too much on left or right.
-His group was half filled with monsters, not veteran. World first raider and 8 tank RL, that's more than a veteran group.

No matter which angle you attack the problem, Rich always had a different situation which resulted in the easiest UCOB clear that isn't someone piloting your account.

In my own opinion, claiming Rich did not get carried is the same as saying he doesn't deserves the clear. Both are extreme black and white views without looking further than your nose.
Because both answers are "No". The problem is jumping on the "No" and the "Yes" while what should interest everyone is the "Why".

Hating RichCOB or not is another question. With a simple answer: Keep it to you.

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I saw his clear video and he had very few personal callouts, half of which were late anyway and he was already in place for, and the other half being pretty insignificant buff calls towards golden. Besides, let's not pretend like a vast majority of legends don't have ACT do personalized callouts for them on every mechanic lol).

It looked real legit. And his clear time was somewhere between 20-30h which is in the ballpark of what you'd expect from a higher tier team. Aka he learned the fight about as fast as a good veteran player (people forget how long he spent studying the fight out of raid).

The only ultimate experience he missed out on was watching other people wipe him for a few more hours (probably no more than an extra day of raid). But that was the point of him going in there with 7 cleared in the first place. So that he'd be the only bottleneck.

I think people are either respecting the content too much (it's an old fight with no DPS check and where healer/tank LB can be abused over and over again). Or really struggled through it (content drought = more people got to try it who otherwise wouldn't have found the time) and are salty that he didn't struggle as much.

Honestly, it was going to be lose-lose. He goes in with top world players > carry. He goes in with 7 cleared randos > carry. He goes in with one cleared doing shot-caller > carry. He goes in with 7 sprouts > nobody watches his stream. I would've done exactly the same as him.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I saw his clear video and he had very few personal callouts, half of which were late anyway and he was already in place for, and the other half being pretty insignificant buff calls towards golden. Besides, let's not pretend like a vast majority of legends don't have ACT do personalized callouts for them on every mechanic lol).

Honestly, it was going to be lose-lose. He goes in with top world players > carry. He goes in with 7 cleared randos > carry. He goes in with one cleared doing shot-caller > carry. He goes in with 7 sprouts > nobody watches his stream. I would've done exactly the same as him.

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About the first one...
A prog is not just the run that clears, that's only the last step.
A lot is done and learned on the previous wipes. In a... "normal" group let's say, each member is expected to learn themselves and fix their mistakes themselves.

Was it because Rin was a great teacher? I'd argue about that.
More than anything, the answer and the how was handed to Rich. I'm not talking about the mechanics and strategy you can find in numerous guides but the execution.
You need to learn the execution yourself, that just comes back to the RL focusing entirely on Rich during the prog. That last clean clear is the result of that process repeated again and again. The opposite result would've been strange.

He still did many progging mistakes on previous runs, but that one was clean for sure.

As for the second, yes. It's a lose lose situation but I have a different opinion about that.
Rich is a streamer, if he took too long to clear he would've lost viewers. Streaming is his job, progging UCOB would've been a loss for his job. Progging while being heavily handheld was a much better option as a Streamer.

His haters will be shut down anyway and the fact that he's carried or not is irrelevant for his viewerbase and streaming career.
This is an important part everyone needs to understand, he's not playing XIV, he's streaming XIV.

Haters will always find a justification to discredit something - oh person X didnt complete it by my subjective standards therefore person X actions are invalid and I wont be convinced otherwise because I hate them. They will constantly shift goal posts to suit their own worldview, and be bloody minded that they are right and everyone else is wrong. That is how haters are, they hate watch streamers, they hate comment on their twitters and in their twitch chats and any where that will allow it, but they are obsessed and will engage more than people who actually are fans. These people are like the Frank Burns to Hawkeye from the old show MASH, they love a streamer, hate them too and wish more than anything to be them.

These people saying the highly experienced group carried him, need to ask themselves how many of that group would you have to switch out before it wasn't a carry?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

About the first one...
A prog is not just the run that clears, that's only the last step.
A lot is done and learned on the previous wipes. In a... "normal" group let's say, each member is expected to learn themselves and fix their mistakes themselves.

Was it because Rin was a great teacher? I'd argue about that.
More than anything, the answer and the how was handed to Rich. I'm not talking about the mechanics and strategy you can find in numerous guides but the execution.
You need to learn the execution yourself, that just comes back to the RL focusing entirely on Rich during the prog. That last clean clear is the result of that process repeated again and again. The opposite result would've been strange.

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It's one of those things that are very "grey area" imo. Going in content with 7 cleared is always going to mean that each hour of prog is going to yield better personal growth for the one new player. Rin's callouts were amazing but ultimately you can get that out of ACT as well, and many do. The impressive part about it was that Rin had so much mental leeway that he could do his stuff right and call out Rich's mechanics as well.

But at the end of the day, clearing any fight is about being able to not suck for an entire run. And Rich did just that. I honestly didn't see anything wrong about his runs, they looked exactly like what you'd expect from a decent player spending 20+ hours in there. And in that sense, it isn't a carry. It wasn't that fast a clear either tbh.
Was his journey there not the typical experience? Sure, but it was never going to be, the guy is a streamer. From the get-go he has to play the game AND entertain his chat (which takes away a lot of focus btw).

If people are complaining about his journey being a little faster, then yeah that's fine, that was the very point of the setup from the start. I'm not sure why they would care.. But ok.
If people are claiming that he was carried through his clear. Then no, he definitely wasn't.

I'll say, this is something I've seen coming up lately, and I feel brings out kind of an ugly side in the otherwise-wonderful FFXIV community: the idea that "if someone cleared harder content than me, they must have cheated".

I was recently sharing how ecstatic I was about clearing E4S, because I hadn't really "raided SERIOUSLY" since probably MoP in WoW. I was just sharing my excitement, but I had a few people chime in "well, if you didn't do the min-ilvl and no-echo, you didn't REALLY clear it". Which I mean, it's totally valid that those things would be way MORE impressive, but it sort of felt like a couple folks unnecessarily rained on my parade, of sorts. And when it comes to high-level content, it does seem a fairly common sentiment that "it doesn't really count, unless you do it how I did it".

I mean, I'm HOPING to meet up with a group tonight to run TEA, and since I think some of them have already cleared, I fully acknowledge I'll have a massive advantage if I get invited. And since I haven't spend time farming the BiS for TEA, they may decide I need to do that first, or they may let me in and I'm terrible. But even if I somehow manage a clear, I feel like there's going to be those folks saying "it doesn't count". Like I said, I fully acknowledge when people do something extra-hard. Just seems like kind of an odd thing to be kind of a recurring issue in FFXIV, as far as I've noticed anyways.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'll say, this is something I've seen coming up lately, and I feel brings out kind of an ugly side in the otherwise-wonderful FFXIV community: the idea that "if someone cleared harder content than me, they must have cheated".

I was recently sharing how ecstatic I was about clearing E4S, because I hadn't really "raided SERIOUSLY" since probably MoP in WoW. I was just sharing my excitement, but I had a few people chime in "well, if you didn't do the min-ilvl and no-echo, you didn't REALLY clear it". Which I mean, it's totally valid that those things would be way MORE impressive, but it sort of felt like a couple folks unnecessarily rained on my parade, of sorts. And when it comes to high-level content, it does seem a fairly common sentiment that "it doesn't really count, unless you do it how I did it".

I mean, I'm HOPING to meet up with a group tonight to run TEA, and since I think some of them have already cleared, I fully acknowledge I'll have a massive advantage if I get invited. And since I haven't spend time farming the BiS for TEA, they may decide I need to do that first, or they may let me in and I'm terrible. But even if I somehow manage a clear, I feel like there's going to be those folks saying "it doesn't count". Like I said, I fully acknowledge when people do something extra-hard. Just seems like kind of an odd thing to be kind of a recurring issue in FFXIV, as far as I've noticed anyways.

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There are people that mod the game to remove any legend titles or ultimate weapons from other players. Denial is strong sometimes lol. So don't worry about people raining on your parade. A clear is a clear, enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'll say, this is something I've seen coming up lately, and I feel brings out kind of an ugly side in the otherwise-wonderful FFXIV community: the idea that "if someone cleared harder content than me, they must have cheated".

I was recently sharing how ecstatic I was about clearing E4S, because I hadn't really "raided SERIOUSLY" since probably MoP in WoW. I was just sharing my excitement, but I had a few people chime in "well, if you didn't do the min-ilvl and no-echo, you didn't REALLY clear it". Which I mean, it's totally valid that those things would be way MORE impressive, but it sort of felt like a couple folks unnecessarily rained on my parade, of sorts. And when it comes to high-level content, it does seem a fairly common sentiment that "it doesn't really count, unless you do it how I did it".

I mean, I'm HOPING to meet up with a group tonight to run TEA, and since I think some of them have already cleared, I fully acknowledge I'll have a massive advantage if I get invited. And since I haven't spend time farming the BiS for TEA, they may decide I need to do that first, or they may let me in and I'm terrible. But even if I somehow manage a clear, I feel like there's going to be those folks saying "it doesn't count". Like I said, I fully acknowledge when people do something extra-hard. Just seems like kind of an odd thing to be kind of a recurring issue in FFXIV, as far as I've noticed anyways.

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Most people who act like that haven't cleared hard content themselves. They are just jealous and projecting onto you. They cannot clear it themselves so they delude themselves into believing that it's actually really easy and they just don't want to do it, just so they can diminish the achievements of other people.

As long as you didn't pay for the clear and lay dead on the ground the whole time, you deserve it.

I'd say that if 24 people operating at your current capacity and throughput couldn't clear the Ultimate, then to some extent you were carried. If you were slightly below the output needed, then someone slightly above that average carried your slack across the finish line.

Not that it's a huge deal, but if we're getting technical then that's how I see it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'd say that if 24 people operating at your current capacity and throughput couldn't clear the Ultimate, then to some extent you were carried. If you were slightly below the output needed, then someone slightly above that average carried your slack across the finish line.

Not that it's a huge deal, but if we're getting technical then that's how I see it.

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24? Why that number?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

24? Why that number?

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Dunno, always assumed ultimates are 24 players. Never actually done one. Can replace that number with whatever is correct.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

There is 6 pages that clearly explains the situation. A few of them make good use of space to make a wall of text breath a bit!

To make it easier for you:
-Rich had specifically made call out. It's as if your car would tell you to stop at red light or would read traffic sign for you and would correct your trajectory if you go deviate too much on left or right.
-His group was half filled with monsters, not veteran. World first raider and 8 tank RL, that's more than a veteran group.

No matter which angle you attack the problem, Rich always had a different situation which resulted in the easiest UCOB clear that isn't someone piloting your account.

In my own opinion, claiming Rich did not get carried is the same as saying he doesn't deserves the clear. Both are extreme black and white views without looking further than your nose.
Because both answers are "No". The problem is jumping on the "No" and the "Yes" while what should interest everyone is the "Why".

Hating RichCOB or not is another question. With a simple answer: Keep it to you.

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Oh this is real cute. So, let me put it this way. You're comparison is like saying a Boxer should not have a coach or a trainer because the boxer is carried by their coach or trainer. I have read each response and they are all the same with a few flavors added in. You know why I put what I did in the quotes you left out? Because it addresses the issue you seem to not want to address. Be specific of what you qualify as a clear so that way we can tell new players into Ultimates that if they did not do an Ultimate under these specific guide lines it doesn't count. So that way that 7 man doesn't count as a clear OR the tank only run doesn't count as a clear because they didn't do them under your guidelines. That tank only run had a LOT of call outs, you wanna tell them they didn't earn their clear? If it was, what percentage of call outs are you okay with so be considered a clear? No call outs? Cool lets just nuke 50% of Ultimate clears for your pure view of what a clear means. When you start becoming petty and spiteful over someone else you are also disqualifying other players who may have gotten Ultimates under similar conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I love these mental gymnastics.

One person has a problem with it -> Everyone else calls it a carry (or not) and says that is alright and cool -> THE FORUMS ARE A CESSPOOL OF TOXICITY! EVERYONE JUST HATES HERE! HOW DARE YOU!!!!1111!!! SO MANY HATERS! YOU ARE ALL HATERS!!!

I really love this and it repeats itself so well in all the different threads. As soon as someone has a different opinion someone like the quoted person up there just shoots into a thread and screams that it's infested with so many toxic people. xD

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As if this issue appears on forums only. In general I just see most of not all forms of social media as toxic since those tend to be infested with fragile ego individuals. Regardless if it's here, twitter, youtube, or twitch, a toxic individual will always appear and those that agree with him. The whole topic is stupid in general because it leads into disqualifying a large amount of Ultimate clears because someones ego on what qualifies as a clear isn't met.